851 réponses à ce sujet

[-Preie-]

Gamemako... you can have all my internets! Amazing. I really think you should submit your suggestions to Bioware.

The only issues I have with the entire article is I understand the attempts to make different races varying among the same race. But charge is still a factor, which requires CQC. Each race can be different, but it must still do its job. And that is to survive and if speced right, be a tank.

And update: Shockwave is NOT viable at all. I can understand the ability and uses, but I cannot charge to set of Biotic explosions since they float to high and I was constantly deciding which ability to use. In end, granted this was a test run in bronze, I ended up just spamming shockwave and got a few health bars lowered from shielded enemies. Cool idea and animation/ floating enemies... not very synergistic with charge

[RecoonHoodie]

By the way , why there is no attention to this thread? Is somewhat important, i think vanguards are the least played class (except krogan), i am sure bioware can see that in their database , so why they doing nothing about it?

[-Preie-]

RecoonHoodie wrote...

By the way , why there is no attention to this thread? Is somewhat important, i think vanguards are the least played class (except krogan), i am sure bioware can see that in their database , so why they doing nothing about it?

I have been constantly trying to keep this page up, and not spamming "bump" (Don't want to get banned) so that it does derive some attention.

I wonder if it is a factor of everybody bored of Vanguard from Mass Effect 2 or just no interest in the class since it isn't very user friendly and usually gets left out in higher level games.

AND most productive threads don't get attention because there is usually no spam or trolls

[Gamemako]

RecoonHoodie wrote...

By the way , why there is no attention to this thread? Is somewhat important, i think vanguards are the least played class (except krogan), i am sure bioware can see that in their database , so why they doing nothing about it?

Based on my old DLC class polling, something like 40% of voters wanted another Infiltrator of some sort. It seems that their long-standing status as The Damage Gods and Vanguard's long-standing status as kick-fodder has made people simply not care about Vanguards and instead just want buffs and overpowered guns for their Infiltrators.

[Pedactor]

Preie, I'd say it's more because only one of them is Viable above Silver really for a pleib like me, and the Kroguard is exceptionally boring to play in my experience.

Charge on CD, shoot stuff with shotgun, melee.

That's it.

[Pedactor]

Gamemako wrote...

RecoonHoodie wrote...

By the way , why there is no attention to this thread? Is somewhat important, i think vanguards are the least played class (except krogan), i am sure bioware can see that in their database , so why they doing nothing about it?

Based on my old DLC class polling, something like 40% of voters wanted another Infiltrator of some sort. It seems that their long-standing status as The Damage Gods and Vanguard's long-standing status as kick-fodder has made people simply not care about Vanguards and instead just want buffs and overpowered guns for their Infiltrators.

See what I said:

Tactical Cloak's evolutions are compelling choices (that TC "nerf" was actually a buff to variety for Infiltrators.")

Biotic Charge's aren't.  Your suggestions are, but BC was slapped on and left basically the same for all, which isn't really interesting for a power you are forced to take barring Reset.

[Elotana]

Biotic Charge's only real choice is at Rank 4. The other two are no-brainers and should be buffed. Weapon Damage should match the duration of Power Damage, and the Bonus Power chance should be closer to 50%.

Modifié par Elotana, 02 août 2012 - 09:19 .

[Malanek]

It just needs the charge bug fixed.

[RecoonHoodie]

There is also another thing I forgot to mention. In mass effect 2 there wasn't such thing as a weapon weight, so I could put a Claymore on my dear Shepard and wreck things without worry about how much time untill my cooldown has ended. Maybe some changes to Alliance Training too? Lets say a flat 40% less weight to shotguns or even more?

[Lokiwithrope]

Malanek999 wrote...

It just needs the charge bug fixed.

Oh god. My head is still jumping from that...

[Pedactor]

Elotana wrote...

Biotic Charge's only real choice is at Rank 4. The other two are no-brainers and should be buffed. Weapon Damage should match the duration of Power Damage, and the Bonus Power chance should be closer to 50%.

People spec force?

I didn't really think that was a choice either since it limits your damage to a single target.

[-Preie-]

I can understand the love for the infiltrator. He/she is my second favorite class. But at most times it feels entirely too safe, even with the shotgun geth build. But there is nothing better than creating a "biotic god" and dance around the battlefield, making the enemies shack in their boots .

And it is the issue. The vanguards or glitch gods require too much to be viable. Perfect situation, good to great player, fast reflexes, good internet connections, hosting, luck, ect... It isn't user-friendly, being grabbed is a nightmare, some people don't like to JUST be viable for killing trash, or mooks as this forum calls them, and the constant glitching has left them with a bad taste. It is surprising that it has gone on this long tho.

But I shouldn't be too surprised. Adepts had it rugged in Mass Effect 2. With all them shielded enemies.

Charge radius is safer... makes crowds of goons jump. And no... it needs a little more work than just the charge bug. I don't see people hosting with vanguards in platinum unless he brings in 3 fury's.

Modifié par -Preie-, 02 août 2012 - 09:27 .

[RecoonHoodie]

Malanek999 wrote...

It just needs the charge bug fixed.

Sorry my friend but that is wrong. At this time vanguard don't have the proper power to deal with anything more than standard mooks and the shielded ones marauder,nemesis and  centurion. Everything else is sync killing them/staggering them or freaking magnet grabbing them in mid-charge. Clearly you havent tryed platinum with human vanguard. Only way to stagger phantom with normal biotic charge (no kroguard) (haven't tryed for real) is to put Power Amplifier IV, and  spec charge for full force and damage.(Again: I am not sure because i havent tryed)

[Gamemako]

Pedactor wrote...

Elotana wrote...

Biotic Charge's only real choice is at Rank 4. The other two are no-brainers and should be buffed. Weapon Damage should match the duration of Power Damage, and the Bonus Power chance should be closer to 50%.

People spec force?

I didn't really think that was a choice either since it limits your damage to a single target.

People specced F&D back when Gold was top-level. With it, you could stagger Gold Phantoms. Without, you're hosed. With the advent of Platinum, Vanguards (Krogan excepted as they're considerably more powerful) can never stagger Phantoms. Since Vanguards are so bad in Platinum, some people still spec F&D and just play Gold only.

//EDIT: Recoon, Krogan Vanguards can spec Radius and still stagger Phantoms in Plat. FOR TUCHANKA!

Modifié par Gamemako, 02 août 2012 - 09:29 .

[usctrojanbulldog]

Destructo-Bot wrote...

My case is that vanguards should not be a high damage output class. They should be mook killers and aggro sponge/tanks extraordinaire.

Have to agree. I play a Slayer as my main and that's what they do best; kill everything that is not a boss and manage aggro.

If the team depends on you to kill bosses, you're kinda out of luck.

The big problem with vanguards is on higher difficulty, BC becomes much less effective. You also need to depend more on weaponry to do damage. Given these two very apparent issues; you are better off playing a class that lends itself to this situation.

[RecoonHoodie]

Gamemako wrote...

Pedactor wrote...

Elotana wrote...

Biotic Charge's only real choice is at Rank 4. The other two are no-brainers and should be buffed. Weapon Damage should match the duration of Power Damage, and the Bonus Power chance should be closer to 50%.

People spec force?

I didn't really think that was a choice either since it limits your damage to a single target.

People specced F&D back when Gold was top-level. With it, you could stagger Gold Phantoms. Without, you're hosed. With the advent of Platinum, Vanguards (Krogan excepted as they're considerably more powerful) can never stagger Phantoms. Since Vanguards are so bad in Platinum, some people still spec F&D and just play Gold only.

//EDIT: Recoon, Krogan Vanguards can spec Radius and still stagger Phantoms in Plat. FOR TUCHANKA!

I know that. Basically krogan specced forradius and maxed passive power damage bonuses has a 1162 Newtons force (without counting the barrier power bonus with it its 1387 Newtons )
Human Vanguard with maxed passive power bonuses, charge for damage and force and power amplifier III does 1150 Newtons of force. That makes me thing like that it should be able to stagger phantom on platinum.
(Obviusly 1162 is enough).  So with the proper eqiupment and the unproper spec for biotic charge () you should be able to stagger phantom with Novaguard on platinum.

[Tybo]

RecoonHoodie wrote...


I know that. Basically krogan specced forradius and maxed passive power damage bonuses has a 1162 Newtons force (without counting the barrier power bonus with it its 1387 Newtons )
Human Vanguard with maxed passive power bonuses, charge for damage and force and power amplifier III does 1150 Newtons of force. That makes me thing like that it should be able to stagger phantom on platinum.
(Obviusly 1162 is enough).  So with the proper eqiupment and the unproper spec for biotic charge () you should be able to stagger phantom with Novaguard on platinum.

Not quite.  Power amp only affects damage, not force.  

Also, can a Kroguard actually stagger phantoms with area charge and no barrier?  I haven't tried this, I always have barrier up.

Modifié par tyhw, 02 août 2012 - 09:56 .

[Komrade Kaos]

I have a almost pathological affection for the class in question, So I can relate to the sentiments of many in this thread. However please bear in mind that as much as I love playing this class I have to remind myself that I often MUST rely on my team to survive and succeed. Weapons and tactics are meaningless if you try to take on an enemy AI that will exploit every opportunity and weakness you possess. Team synergy and proper respect for your limitations will reward your efforts.

[RecoonHoodie]

tyhw wrote...

RecoonHoodie wrote...


I know that. Basically krogan specced forradius and maxed passive power damage bonuses has a 1162 Newtons force (without counting the barrier power bonus with it its 1387 Newtons )
Human Vanguard with maxed passive power bonuses, charge for damage and force and power amplifier III does 1150 Newtons of force. That makes me thing like that it should be able to stagger phantom on platinum.
(Obviusly 1162 is enough).  So with the proper eqiupment and the unproper spec for biotic charge () you should be able to stagger phantom with Novaguard on platinum.

Not quite.  Power amp only affects damage, not force.  

Also, can a Kroguard actually stagger phantoms with area charge and no barrier?  I haven't tried this, I always have barrier up.

Power amp affects damage and force.

[kingvenom41392]

Astaiir wrote...

There are weapon mods. Use them.
I actually dislike people who spam powers. Smashguards mostly just spamsmash.
And with the cooldown you have the variety. Equip good weapon you feel good using. Even if it doesn't have the 200% cooldown, don't worry. You don't play Charge -> WAIT FOR THE COOLDOWN TO CLICK THE BUTTON TO USE THE POWER, but you can charge, shoot or roll and then use another power.
Weapons are for you to use them.
It is about variety. There are some enemies you can kill without problems, others are more problematic. But, if you just could kill everything the same way it would be boring.

i dont get why everyoen comes into a thread just to bash ops if that is your intent in any thread then stfu and get out because theres no genuine input and im sick of this selfish ass community

[Bwnci]

The real issue here is a lot of you don't appear to know how to play as Vanguards. There are some outrageous statements here. The only enemy a Vanguard should steer clear of is a Banshee, and you can easily deal with them by changing your game a bit.

Granted they are probably a less "user-friendly" class, they are very risk-return oriented. I believe they have to be however. If there wasn't that level of risk involved in what they do, they would absolutely dominate. That is fun to do but the game would quickly become stale if that were the case.

[RecoonHoodie]

Bwnci wrote...

The real issue here is a lot of you don't appear to know how to play as Vanguards. There are some outrageous statements here. The only enemy a Vanguard should steer clear of is a Banshee, and you can easily deal with them by changing your game a bit.

Granted they are probably a less "user-friendly" class, they are very risk-return oriented. I believe they have to be however. If there wasn't that level of risk involved in what they do, they would absolutely dominate. That is fun to do but the game would quickly become stale if that were the case.

Yeah i clearly don't know how to play vanguard. I just soloed geth gold ghost with novaguard, and soloed thesia cerberus gold with asari vanguard. Absolutely no idea how to play this thing...   In every thread there is this kind of guy...

[Quething]

Gamemako wrote...

RecoonHoodie wrote...

By the way , why there is no attention to this thread? Is somewhat important, i think vanguards are the least played class (except krogan), i am sure bioware can see that in their database , so why they doing nothing about it?

Based on my old DLC class polling, something like 40% of voters wanted another Infiltrator of some sort. It seems that their long-standing status as The Damage Gods and Vanguard's long-standing status as kick-fodder has made people simply not care about Vanguards and instead just want buffs and overpowered guns for their Infiltrators.

I think a lot of it does come down to the vanguard glitch. Vanguard is my favorite class, I'll always think of my Novaguard as my "main" and it's the class I'm probably best with. I wind down after work before bed with a nice relaxing Silver game with drellguard or melee-focused smashguard, just set up a lobby and start the game and see who drops in. But when I actually want to play a challenging match and/or earn some actual credits, I inevitably end up picking one of my engineers. Because I can drop right into a lobby and play, instead of having to host and waiting fifteen minutes for mine to fill with a bunch of asari Widow adepts just so I can start a new lobby and wait another ten.

I mean, I'm not arguing that they're fine. They're not; they lack build choice to a degree even the one-trick pony that was the ME2 Vanguard would pity, and several of them have no logic or synergy whatsoever past Bronze (poor drellguard). But a lot of people are willing to use underpowered guns, play underpowered classes, and screw around with underpowered builds because they still find them fun (my Silver melee Smashguard, frex). Nobody finds floating above the map fun.

Also, Press X to Not Charge And Instead Die Horribly. Even without floating above the map, vanguard survivability above Silver is too dependent on that split-second reaction to cope with even minimal lag.

Modifié par Quething, 02 août 2012 - 10:25 .

[Bwnci]

RecoonHoodie wrote...

At this time vanguard don't have the proper power to deal with anything more than standard mooks and the shielded ones marauder,nemesis and  centurion.

Then how on Earth can you say something as unfounded as the above?! You must take all facts into account in order to pitch a coherent arguement.

Modifié par Bwnci, 02 août 2012 - 10:28 .

[Tiger]

I really love the Vanguard class but i cant play it anymore, constantly hitting charge and it not working coupled with all the glitches they have make the class obsolete. Its a shame...