851 réponses à ce sujet

[TehMerc]

Gamemako wrote...
Thanks! I'll just go ahead and copy-paste it here.

would make it a more viable class on the higher difficulties. 

Especially like the nova idea, it's flat out annoying against one enemy.

[RecoonHoodie]

Bwnci wrote...

RecoonHoodie wrote...

At this time vanguard don't have the proper power to deal with anything more than standard mooks and the shielded ones marauder,nemesis and  centurion.

Then how on Earth can you say something as unfounded as the above?! You must take all facts into account in order to pitch a coherent arguement.

Well when you play solo, you are not about killing fast. You are about to survive and finish the game. Have you saw solo below 30 minutes (probably yes but RedJohn plays only solo because of bad connection so dont count him )

As far i remember the NovaGuard run took me around 50 minutes (48 and something dont remember, and dont want to search for the pictures)  and the AsariVanguard took me 40 minutes. When you solo,  is not about how good you  are  at doing damage, but how good you are at surviving and controlling the enemy spawns so they dont screw up on objective waves.

[-Preie-]

Bwnci wrote...

The real issue here is a lot of you don't appear to know how to play as Vanguards. There are some outrageous statements here. The only enemy a Vanguard should steer clear of is a Banshee, and you can easily deal with them by changing your game a bit.

Granted they are probably a less "user-friendly" class, they are very risk-return oriented. I believe they have to be however. If there wasn't that level of risk involved in what they do, they would absolutely dominate. That is fun to do but the game would quickly become stale if that were the case.

Ok, then tell please inform us on how to properly play the Vanguard class. Which a glitch gets us floating in the air, lag can kill us instantlly, can get instant killed by ANY boss, or how  an infiltrator can strap on a shotgun and have more reward with less risk. Please, inform us. I don't mean to be rude but when people say statements without explaining them, it becomes difficult to alter arguements and facts.

[Bwnci]

-Preie- I already did on page two. I don't mean to put anyone down, but I do feel the class isn't being well implemented by a lot of people here. Also It was not my understanding that we were trying to match the shotgun infiltrator, which lets face it, every class falls behind.

@RecoonHoodie: I absolutely agree, but don't see what any of that has to do with what I'm saying. We weren't debating solo run tactics. I was questioning your statement on the Vanguards versatility before you proved my point for me by actually soloing Gold difficulty with one.

Modifié par Bwnci, 02 août 2012 - 10:53 .

[Gamemako]

Bwnci wrote...

The real issue here is a lot of you don't appear to know how to play as Vanguards. There are some outrageous statements here. The only enemy a Vanguard should steer clear of is a Banshee, and you can easily deal with them by changing your game a bit.

Granted they are probably a less "user-friendly" class, they are very risk-return oriented. I believe they have to be however. If there wasn't that level of risk involved in what they do, they would absolutely dominate. That is fun to do but the game would quickly become stale if that were the case.

Achire and GP and don't know how to play Vanguards? That would be news to me.

Your problem here is that after Silver, there's no return on the risk. Other classes deal more damage faster which much lower risk than a Vanguard. The only Vanguard who really works in Platinum is the Krogan, and that's because his shields make him a low-risk character right out the gate. The Drell is the ultimate high-risk character, but what reward are you getting? 15% weapon damage for 3 seconds while an Infiltrator is getting +80% for 2.5? A Soldier is getting +70%? An N7 is getting +30% sustained with +35% ROF to boot? Come on. As I said in my post, part of the reason that Vanguards are not well-respected is that they have some of the lowest damage output in the game DESPITE taking on all the risk!

Bwnci wrote...

RecoonHoodie wrote...

At this
time vanguard don't have the proper power to deal with anything more
than standard mooks and the shielded ones marauder,nemesis and
 centurion.

Then how on Earth can you say
something as unfounded as the above?! You must take all facts into
account in order to pitch a coherent arguement.

Because they don't. Only one Vanguard has effective skills against any boss, and that's the Phoenix. The Krogan just relies on his huge health and damage resistance pool to tank everything. Many Vanguards have considerable trouble against Phantoms (only Asari, Krogan, and Lash-specced Phoenix manage).

TehMerc wrote...

would make it a more viable class on the higher difficulties. 

Especially like the nova idea, it's flat out annoying against one enemy.

Unfortunately, that one would definitely require a patch, though. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/unsure.png[/smilie]

[EatonTJ]

I like some of the proposed changes already, here are some additional thoughts for the human vanguard:

1. Vanguard Charge - As the signature power of the class, it's already got a fantastic concept, it just needs a change in its execution, especially on platinum. First, charge should stagger everything. Second, it should be the biggest detonator for biotic and tech combos. As far as damage goes, I don't think it should really do any more damage than it does already because that should be the trade off for getting shields refilled. But in order to be the advertised biotic bomb thunder-cracking around the battlefield, the charge absolutely be capable of staggering all enemies.

2. Nova - Little to complain about except that it's underpowered. Given the high risk nature of using Nova, the damage should be increased, or it too should cause stagger against all enemies. As things are on platinum now, I can charge then nova an enemy (all bosses, and some standard mooks) and that enemy just eats up all the force and damage shooting me non-stop the entire time.

3. Shockwave - Like Nova, just needs a few changes. It's already a great detonator power, and can be spammed from behind cover which makes up for it's low damage. My issue is with the lifting evolution in rank 6. It doesn't have the seemingly intended synergy with Charge or Nova as I assume was intended. For whatever reason, unlike a pulled target, I can't seem to target lifted by shockwave for a charge detonation. It seems to only target once the target starts to fall, and I miss the biotic combo window. Even when I'm at short range and lift a target with shockwave and then use Nova, it doesn't detonate the biotic combo. Maybe this is on purpose, that charge and Nova can't detonate airborne targets, but it seems super lame to me. This severely limits the rank 6 lifting evolution, especially because a target lifted appears to get to bypass all the force effects from the shockwave as well as not being targetable by vanguard powers.

[Bwnci]

Gamemako I simply have to disagree. If you focus more on Power Synergy than Weapon and spec your gernades for damage and force, you should find the Cluster Gernades and Lift Gernades do very effective damage at point blank range (for the full impact). I can't tell you how it works for you, but I handle all enemy types very well and can only recommend my way of doing it if you say your struggling.

Modifié par Bwnci, 02 août 2012 - 11:03 .

[Invader Nemesis]

SimulatedSnowman wrote...

LadyNemsis21 wrote...

Vanguard could be a better class. There are only a few people who can really play this class with out spamming the crap out of their powers. I think I like the asari the most out of this class. I don't use charge and I put the GPS on her and use the Grenade V gear bonus.

Soooo spamming grenades is better than spamming powers?

I don't really spam my nades on the asari vangaurd. I might toss them into a mob every now and then but I never get below 5 or 6 at a time.  (She holds 8)
 

[-Preie-]

Bwnci wrote...

-Preie- I already did on page two. I don't mean to put anyone down, but I do feel the class isn't being well implemented by a lot of people here. Also It was not my understanding that we were trying to match the shotgun infiltrator, which lets face it, every class falls behind.

@RecoonHoodie: I absolutely agree, but don't see what any of that has to do with what I'm saying. We weren't debating solo run tactics. I was questioning your statement on the Vanguards versatility before you proved my point for me by actually soloing Gold difficulty with one.

I knew your name was familiar... and ah yes, I read your post and I did agree on some points. And I do really hate to say one class is overpowered and such because it becomes tedious and generally doesn't work well for an argument. Just for an example,  he has an Xbox and I don't.

But the issue is due to the functionality of tatical cloak, the infiltrator can get up close and personal with the bad guy and shoot them in the face with a shot gun and run away clean. The Vanguard on the other hand is dependant on which enemies are present, if we can make a getaway and a sometimes broken charge. IN ADDITION, and this makes me the most upset, is that they can use heavy guns while we are stuck with the Disciplin or risk survivability with gun weight.

And, although some people pointed out, charge isn't very tactically friendly if a group is camping. A krogaurd may be able to take the heat but once a banshee enters said camp, the mighty krogan must head tail and run. If you are running around, with stagger and the damage output of the enemies, it can be risky charging in with the support of your teamates behind you. Something about the class, besides the latency and glitch issue, must be addressed.

And in all honesty... I really wish Bioware would update us on the idea if it would be possible to fix the glitch, or is game coding not going to allow it. That would settle one issue

[RecoonHoodie]

Bwnci wrote...

-Preie- I already did on page two. I don't mean to put anyone down, but I do feel the class isn't being well implemented by a lot of people here. Also It was not my understanding that we were trying to match the shotgun infiltrator, which lets face it, every class falls behind.

@RecoonHoodie: I absolutely agree, but don't see what any of that has to do with what I'm saying. We weren't debating solo run tactics. I was questioning your statement on the Vanguards versatility before you proved my point for me by actually soloing Gold difficulty with one.

I fully understood your point. I stated that in solo you need to be careful and try to survive, so when you are extremily careful you can solo with vanguard. But the thing is that i can solo faster with a simple human infiltrator with claymore/eviscerator/wraith/crusader( you name what shotgun) far more easily and fast than with vanguard.
In these thread we are trying to make vanguard more efficient, and posts like ''hey yo , you play bad vanguard noob, learn to play '' are not helping...
The point is that vanguard , much or less are the least played class in the game... ( i wont go that far as saying they are the most weak but lets say... least versatile, because vanguard teamed up with reaving character can do quite well, but the reaver (drell/justicar) can do very well on his own also...) It needs the bonuses i mention 2 pages before and is begging for vanguard glitch fix..

[DarklighterFreak]

they are usable on gold, but... yeah not enough damage, nor survivability. and yeah getting grabbed is just too annoying.

[Bwnci]

Well I am not about to argue that a Vanguard player could perform better or even equal to an Infiltrator player of the same skill, wielding the right shotgun. In regard to all classes being equal the infiltrators would require another serious nerf, or all the others would require equally stern buffs.

I don't believe that needs to be the case however. Mass Effect is mean't to be a Role Playing Game. When you play the game, you take on a role. Now what that role is, is up to you. The Vanguards are the protectors, if your doing your bit the team wins. Infiltrators are suppose to get in there and back out again, it's right their in the title. If we make every class equal or the same we won't have an RPG.

[u21]

I've loved vanguards since ME1. My current go-to is the Slayer. This is the most interesting discussion I've ever read on BSN. Here's hoping the devs are reading as well.

Must say: race/toon-specific evolutions in BC? Absolute GENIUS. Covers individual weaknesses while making the class as a whole more engaging.

Thank you guys for an impressive discussion.

[EatonTJ]

Gamemako wrote...

...

Your problem here is that after Silver, there's no return on the risk. Other classes deal more damage faster which much lower risk than a Vanguard. The only Vanguard who really works in Platinum is the Krogan, and that's because his shields make him a low-risk character right out the gate. The Drell is the ultimate high-risk character, but what reward are you getting? 15% weapon damage for 3 seconds while an Infiltrator is getting +80% for 2.5? A Soldier is getting +70%? An N7 is getting +30% sustained with +35% ROF to boot? Come on. As I said in my post, part of the reason that Vanguards are not well-respected is that they have some of the lowest damage output in the game DESPITE taking on all the risk!

...

I think this is a perfect summation of what bothers most people with vangaurds in the multiplayer.  Big risk (including the biggest risk of all, glitching out of the game) for little reward.  If a player makes a high risk charge into a large group and the player goes down. that's fair enough.  That's the risk associated with charging.  But, if a skilled player can pull off charging all over the place, storming across the battlefield, there should be a suitable level of carnage in that player's wake. 

From all accounts of the class description, it should be a high risk class capable of dealing huge burst damage.  It's certainly high risk, but with middling damage.

[Uberschveinen]

I will agree with you only insofar as that Vanguards are harder to use than other characters. That is true. They are a very high-tension character, where you are in close range and relying on your abilities to survive. They require careful build balance from the player, and focused attention throughout the game. They are more vulnerable to lag problems than any other character because of their dependance on save-life powers to live. But they are not underpowered as a class.

First things first. Don't use Platinum to show anything. It's not meant to be balanced, Bioware don't care for it in balance, and the entire design philosophy of Platinum was to ignore balance and just make it stupidly hard. Bioware's balance point is that any random team of four can win Silver unless they make big mistakes, and that any random team of four can lose Gold unless they don't make big mistakes.

Now let's look at our Vanguards.

Krogan Vanguard is fine. It's one of the best and most used characters in the game. If it didn't require a high-action playstyle with commensurate risk, he'd be substantially overpowered. He's effectively the toughest character in the game.

Asari Vanguard is fine. She's the technical Vanguard, with a more power-based playstyle like all Asari. She's good, and fits a proper role. And has the adaptability to do either of two roles.

Cerberus Vanguard is also fine. A little better than the Adept, I think, and the Adept is good. A high-risk Vanguard that sacrifices some survivability for the ability to deal truly immense damage.

N7 Slayer is fantastic. Even with just Charge and Melee attacks, he fills an unseen niche of high-survivability melee attacker. 50% charge DR plus HUGE light melee DR means you can just stab and stab all day without fear of death save on sync-kill, literally up to meleeing Cerberus Turrets to death, and heavy melee is effectively Shadow Strike in damage and movement terms. He doesn't do Krogan wad-of-health big-slow-attacks melee, or Batarian everyone-is-staggered FALCON PAWNCH melee; he does lots of mid damage extremely fast attacks. And he makes up for good damage and supreme survivability with an extremely intense playstyle that forces you to tightly control your aim and punishes your second miss with near-certain death. And because he also has a very potent but vulnerable long range attack, and an extremely powerful but slow and exposed mid-range attack, you can build him either as a brawler or an ambush attacker. The Slayer really is the final distillation of what Vanguard is meant to be.

The Human Vanguards aren't that bad. Proper leveraging of their invincibility frames is extremely effective. It's also very, very difficult. They aren't bad, but they should only be handled by very good players. And the fact that they so rarely are gives them a poor reputation. They could benefit from a stronger damage Nova without being made a top-of-game character, but don't really need it. Because they rely entirely on high-skill players, there will be no use buffing them to see Gold play because most players will still suck with it. The only way around that is to buff is drastically, in which case the good players would be ridiculous.

Drell Vanguard is the only one that's just not much good. Even the best-built one is less effective than a well-built Drell Adept. He just doesn't do anything to make him worthwhile.

[MAGlKARP]

Novaguard is my favourite class in the game. Shame I can't play it off host because of the stupid glitch . I've played it a TON and I'll write down my thoughts.

The true power in a novaguard is that it can detonate 3 biosplosions in the time of one charge cooldown. If you pair that with team mates who prime everything you get crazy AoE DPS that can clear spawns like crazy.

Not only can they deal out some of the highest DPS in the game, but a proper novaguard is also the best tank in the game. Nova cancelling is the best way to tank damage in the game, and tanking an atlas' rockets/railgun and banshees' warp balls is some of the best teamwork possible. 

Avoiding sync kills is easier than you probably think! You just have to know that all of the enemies that can sync kill (apart from banshees) can only do so after they use their melee attack. If you see an enemy use a melee then don't charge it unless it's primed for a biosplosion (in my experience I don't think you can be sync killed if you charge to detonate). Only charge banshees that are primed for a biosplosion and otherwise stay away.

When bioware introduced the acolyte, they inadvertently gave the novaguard a massive buff. It takes off any non bosses' shields or barriers in one shot, INCLUDING PHANTOMS. If you know anything at all about playing novaguard you should know that charging a phantom with it's barriers up is suicide, but a phantom without barriers is useless against charge. Because charge destroys anything with just health the acolyte is the novaguard's best friend.

So there you go, the novaguard has the potential for top tier dps, is the best tank, and recently scored a huge buff. Now fix the damn glitch already!

Modifié par MAGlKARP, 03 août 2012 - 01:25 .

[Gamemako]

Bwnci wrote...

Gamemako I simply have to disagree. If you focus more on Power Synergy than Weapon and spec your gernades for damage and force, you should find the Cluster Gernades and Lift Gernades do very effective damage at point blank range (for the full impact). I can't tell you how it works for you, but I handle all enemy types very well and can only recommend my way of doing it if you say your struggling.

Good thing I had this response in my pocket for just such an occasion:

-Those lift grenades are dealing +125% before Chrage bonus on an AV, which is 1575. After Charge, its 1750. A Platinum  Brute has 11700 armor, so you can kill him if you are willing to use all 8 grenades (7 if you have the charge bonus applied already).
-Herein lies the issue: the Brute is not a particularly sturdy opponent. A Gethfiltrator with a Piranha can kill one in roughly 1.04 seconds of fire from a Piranha. It will take you at least three times that just to throw out the grenades.
-These grenades, like most others, are primarily good for killing mooks. Toss a few at a group of attacking pyros and they go away. The question that must be asked, however, is "What Pyros?" There aren't many groups of mooks on Platinum to use them on.
-Worse still, if you want to kill a Platinum pyro, you need 7413 damage -- that's 5 lift grenades for one little guy!

Becuse of the HP pools of enemies on Platinum, it takes an incredible number of grenades to actually be effective unless your grenades deal bonus damage to certain types of defense (e.g. like how a single Arc Grenade strips the shields off a Platinum Pyro and a single Homing Grenade finishes him off). The lack of groups of vulnerable mooks makes the Vanguard an unhappy camper in general. Add in the absolutely pathetic damage bonuses from Charge and you have a character suited to doing... not very much damage, especially on a sustained basis. Worse, you try to use grenades like that and you're going to run out in a hurry. Cluster Grenades are a similar story, though slightly less dire (since you can spec them up to 1100 per grenade with 3 grenades per throw).

I have used the AV and Drellguard on Platinum. I have... survived, at least, with the Asari. The Drell was a disaster from the first wave; even a Cyclonic Modulator IV and 8 Cluster Grenades don't begin to make him tolerable.

The only skill a Vanguard has that is a worthy primary damage tool is Smash, and that's a power that makes you more Adept than Vanguard (removing Charge from the equation as long as you are using it). Even Nova's damage is pretty underwhelming for a skill that can be used once every 2.5 seconds. 840 for health, 1680 protection per 2. seconds means that it's pretty awful a skill combination every 2.35 seconds, let's say, plus 475 from Charge itself. Woo, whopping 917 DPS against a single target. That only gets outdone by a half-dozen guns with no equipment at all. Clearly, using Charge->Nova is not an effective damage tool unless you're hitting multiple targets, and multiple targets are not in the cards for Platinum. Hell, you can bring a Mattock on a random character, say a Human Sentinel, and outdo a Vanguard who hits two preferred targets with every Nova. That's how bad the damage output really is. You can tie it to biotic explosions, but consider this: Charge and Nova deal no bonus to explosions, so even if you set off 3 biotic explosions per biotic charge cycle, you could set off 2.5 biotic explosions with +50% explosion power by just using Throw. If we assume a 50% on the setup (no primer has more), Charge/Nova gets 4.5x biosplosion damage and Throw spam gets 5x biosplosion damage. If the primer has no bonus, then it's 3x versus 3.75% biosplosion damage. Coupled with the damage from Throw (neglecting bullets altogether, which the throw-spammer gets in force), the Throw spam is still delivering at least equal damage, again with lower risk.

That is the point that has to be made here: Vanguards do not excel at delivering damage. They are actually pretty terribly at it compared to, say, a Human Sentinel who puts out 3000+ damage per biotic combo on a target and has ample time for bullets in the interim with much less risk. Vanguard have certain burst damage skills like grenades which help with damage output, but those are better suited to groups of small things, cannot be used on a constant basis, and don't benefit from being used on a Vanguard at all. It doesn't make sense to use Vanguards if you want damage output and it doesn't make sense to use Vanguards if you want durability (Krogan excepted). Those who use Vanguards do so despite their weaknesses, not because there's some payoff for the risk they assume. When a Vanguard throws himself across the battlefield, he needs to have the cards in hand to make a worthwhile play. Right now, he lacks that, and until that changes, he'll continue to be the Bronze Bomber.

//EDIT: Uberschveinen, since you seem to believe he is quite great, please create a video for soloing Platinum with your N7 Slayer. I have yet to see anyone show the N7 Slayer worthy of anything but the same thing a Drell does -- kill mooks that disappear after the first waves of Gold. I've done many gold matches with him -- 6/6/3/5/6 build works best for me -- and he's really not very good in my experience.

Modifié par Gamemako, 03 août 2012 - 01:59 .

[Elotana]

MAGlKARP wrote...

If you know anything at all about playing novaguard you should know that charging a phantom with it's barriers up is suicide

Nah. Either a full-force charge or a full-blast nova will stagger her.

[MP-Ryan]

All the vanguards need minor tweaking (mostly for weight/survivability), but there is one thing and one thing only that truly needs to be done to make Vanguarding a more enjoyable experience...

FIX

THE

@#$%

GLITCH

!

[MAGlKARP]

Elotana wrote...

MAGlKARP wrote...

If you know anything at all about playing novaguard you should know that charging a phantom with it's barriers up is suicide

Nah. Either a full-force charge or a full-blast nova will stagger her.

Phantoms don't like to follow the rules though, and will very often melee or insta-kill you as soon as you charge them.

Modifié par MAGlKARP, 03 août 2012 - 03:54 .

[Achire]

MAGlKARP wrote...

When bioware introduced the acolyte, they inadvertently gave the novaguard a massive buff. It takes off any non bosses' shields or barriers in one shot, INCLUDING PHANTOMS. If you know anything at all about playing novaguard you should know that charging a phantom with it's barriers up is suicide, but a phantom without barriers is useless against charge. Because charge destroys anything with just health the acolyte is the novaguard's best friend.

Not on Platinum. Need a Scorpion to kill Phantoms. Preferably high level, which is a hefty requirement just to play a Novaguard. And no, Charge and Full Nova don't stagger Phantoms on Platinum.

Gamemako, do you know how damage a tech bursts do on Platinum? How do Disruptor Ammo IV tech bursts compare to rank 6 setup power ones? Also consider that you can shoot between charge and nova spam. Even with all this it's still going to leave you at a pretty low DPS especially on Platinum, though. I do believe that Charge (and Nova) should get a small (30%?) biotic detonation bonus, but that would of course require a patch.

I guess it's really a question of what exactly is a Vanguards role in the game. To kill mooks fast? Not many of them on Platinum, and most of them got sizable HP boosts. To detonate? But you get no bonus. To tank (Novaguard)? You get stunlocked to death (note! not sync-killed) on Platinum. To shoot stuff at short range? But the weapon damage bonus is pitiful, and again on Platinum you die incredibly fast.

Modifié par Achire, 03 août 2012 - 03:56 .

[Elotana]

If they melee you, just roll away and wait for them to start shooting before you charge again. They won't instakill without a melee swipe first. The only times I've been instakilled off a charge was when I charged Phantoms who were already swinging at teammates.

[Elotana]

The single greatest buff they could give the Novaguard for Platinum would be to allow Shockwave to prime armored targets at Rank 4 like Smash does. As it is Shockwave only primes at Rank 6, and only primes liftable mooks. It would give Novaguards a reason to take Shockwave and give them a useful and intuitive self-combo. Right now HV has three detonators but no reliable primer and no significant gun buffs which makes for bad times on Platinum.

Modifié par Elotana, 03 août 2012 - 04:01 .

[Alex_Dur4and]

The Asari Vanguard is by far my favorite... In fact, she's probably 1 of the, if not the 1, that I prefer. The only curse... I have to host!! Dammit!

I have played many different variants of this character and I believe to have found (until the next nerf/patch) the balance I was looking for...

Biotic Charge is a must! I love this skill! Taking care of pyros, hunters, centurions, marauders at point blank while fully recovering your shields is just unfair!

Stasis Bubble, I love this ability. Depending on the threat, it's a very good alternative to charge... You wouldn't want to charge in a group of marauders or hunters and phantoms with there sink kills. It's also very synergistic with charge and lift grenades.

Lift grenades are the essence of this class!!! Combined with a level 5 grenade capacity mod, she is a beast! The weapon I have equipped with this build pales in front of the obscene amount of damage I can deal with those!

And the weapon I use is none the less than the overestimated piranha! Ah yes! The piranha!! I love this gun with her because it is crap if you are not at point blank and the biotic charge, set for shield recharge and weapon damage, makes this weapon quite the phenomenon.

For the justicar tree and the fitness tree, I'm comfortable with 4 in both.

With this build, I dominate the scoreboard on gold and I have yet to test her seriously on platinum... I think she will be able to pull her own.

Modifié par Alex_Dur4and, 03 août 2012 - 04:10 .

[Prince Bubblegeth]

I think BC should give not only temporary DR post-charge but also temporary insta-kill and stagger immunity.

This would enable the squishier ones to actually be Vanguards on Platinum.

Uberschveinen wrote...
Drell Vanguard is the only one that's just not much good. Even the best-built one is less effective than a well-built Drell Adept. He just doesn't do anything to make him worthwhile.

 

My Pull + BC specced Drell Vanguard wielding an Acolyte and a Piranha (used only against Atlases) with 190% cooldown who just scored almost 140K on a Gold Cerberus match disagrees. 

However, I have to say he is rather weak against armored foes. Only thing he has against them is BC w/ weapon damage bonus and somehow, his Cluster Grenades which alone totally aren't enough to kill bosses.

On Platinum, his strong role would only be a Phantom and other random shielded mooks killer. Even with a Piranha, damage output against big bosses is pathetic (that's why I strongly disagree w/ lowering Piranha's stats). The Asari Vanguard has the same problem too.... + they're both squishy. 

Modifié par Prince Bubblegeth, 03 août 2012 - 04:25 .