102 réponses à ce sujet

[FlintlockJazz]

Pseron Wyrd wrote...

Most of the RPGs I've played have had mute player characters. In fact, until recently few of them had any voice acting, except for a few key pieces of dialog during important story moments.

I've been playing RPGs for years and voice acting is still kind of a new concept to me so I don't miss it. In fact I often wish cRPGs would go back to text-based dialog...but I know that's never going to happen. Those days are over.

You know, I must say that I know what you mean.  With voice acting they are more limited in how many responses they do (as each one has to be recorded separately, paying more for the VA, and taking up more space on disk), whereas if it was text only they could just add in new dialogue when they think of it, adding in more fluff and allowing modders to add their own dialogue without it standing out due to the lack of voices.  There was also just something more personal about it as well, I dunno how to explain really heh.

[grevinilvic]

voices in the game add to the over all experience, bio ware did it with mass effect and i would like to see more of it.

[FlintlockJazz]

I'm not saying that they should stop using voices, it would be impossible to go back to those days in this marketplace, the game just wouldn't sell, but I understand where Pseron Wyrd is coming from, and can see how voices do limit when it comes to certain aspects (until the day when it's possible to replicate people's voices easily and believably).

[Elvhen Veluthil]

bjdbwea wrote...

It's true that it would be a little boring if you'd read the lines and then hear your PC speak them. That's why in ME, you can choose the direction, but don't know what exactly your PC is going to say. I can see that some people don't like this, but I think it was a brillant invention and like it very much. For me, it improves atmosphere and immersion a lot.

I haven't play ME, but it seem to me that it's not much of an RPG if you don't know what you are going to say, and then hear someone else speaking for you. For me RPG is a game where you forget about your avatar in the game, instead you are the one that are in the game. Sometimes is difficult to get in that position, some imagination can really be helpful

Edit: Minor changes to imagination tools

Modifié par Elvhen Veluthil, 20 décembre 2009 - 11:26 .

[Solistus1]

I agree with most of the points here about why muted PC = good. In addition to the various permutations of race and gender, not to mention origin stories (if a Dwarven Noble spoke exactly the same in all situations as a Dwarven Commoner, that would be kind of weird, no?), two other big reasons I like it:



1. We naturally associate voices with faces. Arguably, some voices 'match' certain faces better (e.g., it's off-putting to see a heavily built guy with a high, dainty voice). Even without this aspect, once a voice-face pairing has been made, it's very disconcerting to break that connection. I ended up deciding to stop customising my appearance in Mass Effect, because it seemed weird for the 'real' Shepard's voice to be attached to my customised character. This would be a bigger issue still in Dragon Age, I think, where repeat playthroughs are even more highly encouraged and customising your hero is a big part of the game rather than just making facial tweaks to the defined character role of Shepard.



2. In Mass Effect, the short phrases you selected were almost never what Shepard would actually say, verbatim; they would suggest the general content and attitude, but not exactly what was said. This just seemed like a space-saving idea or an odd design touch in ME, when the 'real' quote would then be read aloud. In Dragon Age, I like to think that the same thing is going on, except the 'real' quote is never spelled out in-game. So, even though two very different PCs on two very different playthroughs may both pick the same option in a given conversation, I can imagine each of them replying slightly differently, albeit to the same effect, based on the character personality and background. Since my role-playing options already have to be constrained by a handful of branching options, it's nice that I'm not limited to having my PC utter one of three or four specific sentences. Instead of picking which I like best given the other options, I can imagine how I think my PC would react, then pick the most appropriate option for that reaction.

[Sylvius the Mad]

ejikvkaske wrote...

I think I'd prefer a voiced character. Anyway, I think the ideal solution would be to have a voiced character with a mute option, so everyone gets what they want.

I agree this would be ideal, but then you'd also have to offer full dialogue optons to the players with the muted PC so they'd know what their PC said.

[Jsmith0730]

For a single protagonist, voiced is wonderful. For a game like this with multiple possible main characters, non-voiced makes perfect sense. My only complaint in the latter situation (and thankfully I grabbed the mod to correct this) is to do away with voice altogether. If my character is not talking during cutscenes, I don't need to hear "Right away! I'm on it!" every time I loot a corpse.

[Mordaedil]

RPG's shouldn't have voiced characters. Giving the character a voice removes the last bit of RP in RPG.

[Domgrief]

The lack of a voiced main character is the only thing that makes this game really difficult to follow as a spectator.



I've been able to play this game on our TV, with my wife watching, for a few weeks on and off, because it's actually very watchable. The cinematics and dialog are great, and the third-person view is much easier to follow than overhead or first-person, plus it's been fun for both of us to have our say in the moral dilemmas.



The only thing that makes this difficult is when I quickly choose a mundane response or question as part of dialog, and my wife has no idea what it was that I asked. Even with a "large font" mod, it's pretty hard to read through all of the dialog choices from all the way back on the couch.

[Pseron Wyrd]

Jsmith0730 wrote...
 I don't need to hear "Right away! I'm on it!"

I think I'm about to get that mod myself. It's actually beginning to creep me out when I hear my character talk to me.

[SpoonMan]

I don't really enjoy the muted PC but I 100% understand why they did it. Personally I wish at some culminating points in the game they had the voice you choose say something relevant to what was going on, just something short so it can re-immerse you in the game.



There are around 12 or so voices right? Probably a few are voiced by the same person just with a different accent, so I would have liked at a few points in the game the voice you chose in the beginning said just a little snippet so you could sit back and say, "Oh hey! He's/She's alive!"



Just a little :]

[Shadowace15617]

I think they should have had a voice to the main character mainly just because everyone else talks and its just makes the main character just seem so damn bland and boring having the same stupid mute expression all the time. It really just felt like a lazy excuse to not have to pay for a VA for it.

[Alexus_VG]

Solistus1 wrote...

I agree with most of the points here about why muted PC = good. In addition to the various permutations of race and gender, not to mention origin stories (if a Dwarven Noble spoke exactly the same in all situations as a Dwarven Commoner, that would be kind of weird, no?), two other big reasons I like it:

1. We naturally associate voices with faces. Arguably, some voices 'match' certain faces better (e.g., it's off-putting to see a heavily built guy with a high, dainty voice). Even without this aspect, once a voice-face pairing has been made, it's very disconcerting to break that connection. I ended up deciding to stop customising my appearance in Mass Effect, because it seemed weird for the 'real' Shepard's voice to be attached to my customised character. This would be a bigger issue still in Dragon Age, I think, where repeat playthroughs are even more highly encouraged and customising your hero is a big part of the game rather than just making facial tweaks to the defined character role of Shepard.

2. In Mass Effect, the short phrases you selected were almost never what Shepard would actually say, verbatim; they would suggest the general content and attitude, but not exactly what was said. This just seemed like a space-saving idea or an odd design touch in ME, when the 'real' quote would then be read aloud. In Dragon Age, I like to think that the same thing is going on, except the 'real' quote is never spelled out in-game. So, even though two very different PCs on two very different playthroughs may both pick the same option in a given conversation, I can imagine each of them replying slightly differently, albeit to the same effect, based on the character personality and background. Since my role-playing options already have to be constrained by a handful of branching options, it's nice that I'm not limited to having my PC utter one of three or four specific sentences. Instead of picking which I like best given the other options, I can imagine how I think my PC would react, then pick the most appropriate option for that reaction.

Both of theese points are pretty much on the mark for me. In my oppinion voicing the PC in this kind of RPG is just not a viable option no matter how you look at it. You have to remember that in ME your PC's background was very restricted and that is the only reason it was at all possible as a feature. Above and beyond that I have a personal dislike for having a set voice forced on the PC, it ruins the immerson factor of the game for me and restricts the role playing value as someone else already mentioned.

[Alraymr]

I really didn't like the system in ME. My character was asked a question, I selected the direction in which I wanted to answer and he answered something totally different than what I really wanted to say.



I like real sentences a lot better. I still can't say every answer I would like to give but at least I can select the one that is the most fitting.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Alraymr wrote...

I like real sentences a lot better. I still can't say every answer I would like to give but at least I can select the one that is the most fitting.

Exactly.  Even if you don't think you can choose exactly what to say (I think you can with a mute PC, but that's a much longer explanation), full dialogue options at least give you a chance to choose what NOT to say.

ME's system failed utterly to do that.  Lines you specifically would have avoided choosing had they been visible end up getting spoken by the PC.  There's no choice at all in ME's dialogue system.  From a roleplaying perspective, you may as well be choosing options at random.

[SpoonMan]

I definitely agree with the muted part in the deciding parts of the game, definitely enables some sort of role playing element.



But to throw in an occasional dialogue or two in the main context of the game (important events, like the ending of each quest of the main story line) would have been nice if the voice you chose were to say something correlating with the event that you chose to happen with one of the characters that were involved with that particular quest.



Just something for a little more immersion, not a drastic amount but maybe a few Mb's worth of voice acting by those 6 choices would have been nice imo.

[Pinkleaf]

When I select a response my imagination allows for me to hear what I say along with the appropriate tone of voice, having pc canned responses dampens this personal involvement quite considerably.



For example, in Mass effect if I were to try and console a team member for their loss, I may chose the dialogue option (I am sorry for your loss, I truly am) were as Shepards response may be "(get a grip soldier, your pathetic) I don't know, this doesn't work for me to well.



As somebody has already suggested, maybe having a PC mute option when canned dialogue is included in the game would be for the best.

[Seeker341]

I don't mind if my character has a voice.. but it's only rare that I can find a voice which I find fitting (even moreso if you make multiple characters). Hence, I prefer mute PCs.

And I also prefer to see my dialogue options clearly as even if your preferred option isn't available, at least you'll know what your character will say. Picking an option to have your character say something you didn't intend (or at least not that way) is a good way to break immersion. And diminish my fun at playing the game in question.

Modifié par Seeker341, 21 décembre 2009 - 09:18 .

[Jsmith0730]

Dialog options are responsible for 99% of the forced quit+restart in my games. Not only from misinterpreting my options though. It partly stems from sometimes choosing my second option because of the response my first choice gets. I notice on quite a few occasions where simply adding a word, or changing inflection of a word would have gone miles to enhance a line from an NPC.

[bjdbwea]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

There's no choice at all in ME's dialogue system.  From a roleplaying perspective, you may as well be choosing options at random.

Not true at all. On the contrary. If you look at DA, you may have more lines to choose from. But like in so many games, in most cases they all lead to the exact same response from NPCs. You may have the "feeling" you said something you really wanted to, but the result is always the same. You don't notice it on the first playthrough, but always after that.

Whereas in ME, you indeed usually have only two to three responses to choose from (and contrary to what others said, I find it very easy to distinguish them). But those different choices actually lead to different NPC responses, different outcomes of the dialogue even. And I for one prefer that to just the "feeling" of having said something different.

Of course it helped that the voice acting in ME was so outstanding good in my opinion. A badly voiced PC would certainly not have much appeal.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 21 décembre 2009 - 09:43 .

[Mordaedil]

I take it you never played BG, NWN or PS:T bjdbwea. None of those are true in those games.

[bjdbwea]

Played them all. It occurs less in those games, but it still does. Don't forget that these games had little voice acting. Most NPC lines weren't voiced, leaving the developers a little more room for different responses. But it seems unrealistic to expect anything than full voice acting in future games, therefore I'd vote to do it like Mass Effect (less choices, but real effects) rather than DA (more choices, but little difference).

Modifié par bjdbwea, 21 décembre 2009 - 12:00 .

[Sethronu]

Surprised that no one else said this but, I 'voice' my characters in DA myself, in my mind at least - when going through the different dialog options. Maybe I'm just weird

[Pseron Wyrd]

Sethronu wrote...
Maybe I'm just weird

No, I do the very same thing. It's part of my roleplaying.

For me, the more a game attempts to do my roleplaying for me the less satisfying it is.

[Elvhen Veluthil]

bjdbwea wrote...

Played them all. It occurs less in those games, but it still does. Don't forget that these games had little voice acting. Most NPC lines weren't voiced, leaving the developers a little more room for different responses. But it seems unrealistic to expect anything than full voice acting in future games, therefore I'd vote to do it like Mass Effect (less choices, but real effects) rather than DA (more choices, but little difference).

For some reason though, even if DAO is fully voiced, it seems to me and some other people that the DAO world looks quite empty, while BG world feels very lively. In BG, instead of voicing every character that wouldn't interest me at all, they voiced the world itself. People usually realize this as they get older, but the less you see or hear, the more you imagine. Imagination is our best friend in life, in all things, gaming included.