102 réponses à ce sujet

[Sidney]

Elvhen Veluthil wrote...
For some reason though, even if DAO is fully voiced, it seems to me and some other people that the DAO world looks quite empty, while BG world feels very lively. In BG, instead of voicing every character that wouldn't interest me at all, they voiced the world itself. People usually realize this as they get older, but the less you see or hear, the more you imagine. Imagination is our best friend in life, in all things, gaming included.

BG world seemed likely? Huh? The BG world and the DOA world are the same, same as the KoTOR, JE and ME worlds. Bioware uses the same world. There's always a certain Potemkin Village feel to anything Bioware does because you get that small slice of the city and, ot be honest, those slices often don't feel all the "real".

[bjdbwea]

Sidney wrote...

BG world seemed likely? Huh? The BG world and the DOA world are the same, same as the KoTOR, JE and ME worlds. Bioware uses the same world. There's always a certain Potemkin Village feel to anything Bioware does because you get that small slice of the city and, ot be honest, those slices often don't feel all the "real".

What? Did you even play BG 2? Did you not see the guards patrolling the town, the merchants and common folk? The caged animals in one district? The taverns full of patrons? NPCs with their own little stories? More lively than even Oblivion, I'd say. Compare that to DA and tell me again it's the same.

[Sidney]

bjdbwea wrote...
What? Did you even play BG 2? Did you not see the guards patrolling the town, the merchants and common folk? The caged animals in one district? The taverns full of patrons? NPCs with their own little stories? More lively than even Oblivion, I'd say. Compare that to DA and tell me again it's the same.

So there are guards in the market. There's merchants with customers at several of the stalls. The taverns have patrons and rowdy customers and NPC's to interact with. I played BG2 to heck and while there might have been more raw #'s of meaningless people they are, in the end, just that - meaningless. 

Athkatla never felt one lick like a real city and frankly neither does Denerim and the Citadel also never felt like an inhabited space station. Frankly if you want to find the biggest hole in what Bioware does it is that they do not create vibrant, living and credible urban spaces.

[bjdbwea]

BG 2 wasn't perfect (and DA is certainly far from it). But tell me an example of a better implemented city in a game then.

[Sidney]

bjdbwea wrote...

BG 2 wasn't perfect (and DA is certainly far from it). But tell me an example of a better implemented city in a game then.

I'm not a huge Bethesda junkie but all their cities feel a lot more like a city just from a physical geogrpahy standpoint. The Bioware "you aren't in a place you are on a path" bit is a lot more bothersome to me in urban areas and that was true in Athkatla as well.

[saxo_g]

Sidney wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...

BG 2 wasn't perfect (and DA is certainly far from it). But tell me an example of a better implemented city in a game then.

I'm not a huge Bethesda junkie but all their cities feel a lot more like a city just from a physical geogrpahy standpoint. The Bioware "you aren't in a place you are on a path" bit is a lot more bothersome to me in urban areas and that was true in Athkatla as well.

Frankly, I feel just the opposite. There's "open world" and then there's "vast universe", and Bethesda seems to fall squarely in the latter category. I played Oblivion for a little while, but it got too annoying that I didn't have anything to do. Yes, I can slowly walk from one city-area to another on one of the long roads connecting them, but it's tedious and once I get there, what am I supposed to do? I tinkered a bit with Two Worlds (an Oblivion knockoff) for a while also (and I may go back to it at some point if I get bored), but it was once again an onerous burden to travel slowly from one place to another without a clear sense of how to accomplish even my next objective, and, oh by the way, I got attacked and killed by a bear on the way to it. So that's even worse.

I think it's perfectly reasonable for a story to be somewhat linear in an RPG. You should be able to make choices, some large and many small, but as far as having a world so open that you have no idea where to go, who to talk to, or what to do, that seems foolish and counterproductive. That makes a game too much like work, and that's generally when I uninstall something and try something else.

[Sidney]

saxo_g wrote...

Frankly, I feel just the opposite. There's "open world" and then there's "vast universe", and Bethesda seems to fall squarely in the latter category. I played Oblivion for a little while, but it got too annoying that I didn't have anything to do. Yes, I can slowly walk from one city-area to another on one of the long roads connecting them, but it's tedious and once I get there, what am I supposed to do? I tinkered a bit with Two Worlds (an Oblivion knockoff) for a while also (and I may go back to it at some point if I get bored), but it was once again an onerous burden to travel slowly from one place to another without a clear sense of how to accomplish even my next objective, and, oh by the way, I got attacked and killed by a bear on the way to it. So that's even worse.

I think it's perfectly reasonable for a story to be somewhat linear in an RPG. You should be able to make choices, some large and many small, but as far as having a world so open that you have no idea where to go, who to talk to, or what to do, that seems foolish and counterproductive. That makes a game too much like work, and that's generally when I uninstall something and try something else.

I agree about the 100% open world concept not being all that great. Bioware and Bethesda both have "places" you can do things (the map of Oblviion is dotted with 'em" called mines and temples and such). Bioware just spares us the parts walking though the empy spaces between those "places". I'm not talking about that.sort of world because that does stink and worse, for me, is that it slaps me in the face over and over that the world just isn't that big since it takes 2 minutes to go anywhere.

I'm saying that once you get to the urban (and only the urban bothers me) spaces the world bethesda creates within that space is much better and real feeling that the Bioware urban worlds that always fel a bit like Potemkin villages.

[REH1967]

Imagine when text to computerized speech "voice acting" becomes possible, it will revolutionize these games. Computer characters will actually be able to pronounce the player character's name that the player gave them.



Additionally, all text could become voiced dialog. Voice Actors would only be needed to set the base vocals that the software would work from. It would be a modder's heaven...great mods would become nearly indistinguishable from the released content.

[bjdbwea]

Bethesda. Okay, but...

In Oblivion you have a big city, and the NPCs all have their own (though often unrealistic) daily schedule. Yet you hardly meet anyone special, nor interesting situations. Still far from being a realistic city, and it's only purpose is soon wandering through it from one loading screen to another. It may be more realistic than in BG 2, but more interesting or more fun? I don't think so.

Fallout 3 is much better, the settlements are more lively, have more diverse and more interesting people. But, exactly, it's just that: Settlements, not cities. It's easier to get it right on a smaller scale and with less inhabitants. That's why the approach in DA, to show just pieces of the city, isn't bad at all in my view. The problem in DA is, the pieces still have too little content. BG 2 did that much better. It seems we agree on that after all.

REH1967 wrote...

Imagine when text to computerized speech "voice acting" becomes possible, it will revolutionize these games. Computer characters will actually be able to pronounce the player character's name that the player gave them.

Additionally, all text could become voiced dialog. Voice Actors would only be needed to set the base vocals that the software would work from. It would be a modder's heaven...great mods would become nearly indistinguishable from the released content.

Yeah that will be fantastic, and it will happen some day. Completely new possibilities will arise.

[Apocalizz]

I'm also happy I'm silent. I like to pretend it's actually me talking, not some voice actor.



I would get bored very fast, having to listen to something I just read and chose....like...I know what I'm going to say!



I really enjoy the voice acting of the other characters though!

[Sidney]

bjdbwea wrote...

Fallout 3 is much better, the settlements are more lively, have more diverse and more interesting people. But, exactly, it's just that: Settlements, not cities. It's easier to get it right on a smaller scale and with less inhabitants. That's why the approach in DA, to show just pieces of the city, isn't bad at all in my view. The problem in DA is, the pieces still have too little content. BG 2 did that much better. It seems we agree on that after all.

The pieces are fine but the pieces we see never feel quite right in any of the games.

[bjdbwea]

But at least it's improved in comparison to JE, where you could even run through the NPCs. 

[Kalcalan]

Apocalizz wrote...

I'm also happy I'm silent. I like to pretend it's actually me talking, not some voice actor.

I would get bored very fast, having to listen to something I just read and chose....like...I know what I'm going to say!

I really enjoy the voice acting of the other characters though!

I agree with Apocalizz, you made some very good points, listening to what you've just read is boring indeed (it bored me a lot when I was playing the Witcher).

I'm glad there is a silent mod that gets rid of the useless comments made by the main character.

[Aedan_Cousland]

Pinkleaf wrote...
Even Mass effect, I feel was tarnished by the horrid American accent adopted by the main character, I'm sorry but the American accent really grinds on me.
Anyway, I hope that silent main characters become the norm, especially in this sort of game.

The male Shep was voiced by a Canadian actually. Personally I'd rather Shep have a manly Canadian or American accent than an effete British one.  Jack Bauer in space should not sound like Elton John.

Cheers!

[Sylvius the Mad]

Sidney wrote...

The Bioware "you aren't in a place you are on a path"

This is largely why I continue to think BG was BioWare's best game (and markedly superior to BG2).  BG had places.  Your path was entirely your own.

[Loerwyn]

I can see the arguments/reasons for both sides.



To be honest, I'd rather my PC was voiced. I want to know what she says, like I do with my Shep in ME. Jen Hale's voice was utterly perfect for it - Can you imagine FemShep talking like a spoilt American teen ("Yeah, like, so, like... You're like an Elcor? That's gross!")? I want the full story, I don't want half of it. When you read a book in first person, it doesn't miss out the narrator's dialogue, does it?



It was the same in NWN1 and Obsidian's NWN2 - Why go through the effort of choosing a voice for your character if you rarely hear it?

[montana_boy]

Pinkleaf wrote...

I think the decision to mute the main character was a touch of genius.
I have taken a look at some other games of sorts were the voice chosen for the main character really distracts from the emersion.

Even Mass effect, I feel was tarnished by the horrid American accent adopted by the main character, I'm sorry but the American accent really grinds on me.
Anyway, I hope that silent main characters become the norm, especially in this sort of game.

American accents are the way Americans speak, sooooo sorry.  I don't suppose British or Spanish or French or Italian, or Norwegian or German or Ethopian accents "grind" on you, right?  I don't suppose that these accents are "horrid" either, are they?

"Sheesh!" he said, with an American accent

Modifié par montana_boy, 21 décembre 2009 - 10:16 .

[Shadowace15617]

I always saw mass effect as more of a movie style of game were Shepperd was Shepperd and not you so his voice is his own. And I think it would have worked better for this game as well because staring at your PC from 3rd person made him seem lifeless and boring especially when compared to some the the great characters like Alistair. While in games like fallout 3 in first person were it really seems like your the PC not having a voice seems more fitting to me.

Modifié par Shadowace15617, 21 décembre 2009 - 10:29 .

[sdlessar2]

"Warden senses tingling"

[bzombo]

Dasim4 wrote...

I don't like it at all. The main character in Mass Effect spoke all his/her lines and I was expecting the same here. I was disappointed that all my character can manage is a few canned and very corny lines. As far as you doing the role playing, do you actually sit there and read all your lines out loud as if that's actually you playing? I see it as me making the choices for a character much the same as I do for the other members of my party at times. I make his/her choices and them watch them played out. It's like a story where you can make choices that determine the outcome. In that context it makes no sense for the main character to have no voice.

i agree it would be nice to have voices for the pc. however, think of the origins, every possible voice type provided, and double it for gender, and that's how many voices they would need to do to do it right.

[bzombo]

montana_boy wrote...

Pinkleaf wrote...

I think the decision to mute the main character was a touch of genius.
I have taken a look at some other games of sorts were the voice chosen for the main character really distracts from the emersion.

Even Mass effect, I feel was tarnished by the horrid American accent adopted by the main character, I'm sorry but the American accent really grinds on me.
Anyway, I hope that silent main characters become the norm, especially in this sort of game.

American accents are the way Americans speak, sooooo sorry.  I don't suppose British or Spanish or French or Italian, or Norwegian or German or Ethopian accents "grind" on you, right?  I don't suppose that these accents are "horrid" either, are they?

"Sheesh!" he said, with an American accent

i didn't particularly like that either. maybe someone should speak out about the anti-american comments in forums and how much THAT grates on them.

[R1cardo]

People, let's do the maths:



6 origins, at least 2 axis of roleplaying (evil or good) = 12 voices



but you can be male or female = 12 x 2 = 24 voices



and yet, you would have to consider ethnics (white, afroamerican, asian)



with only this (probably we need a lot more than this), you have 24 x 3 = the astounding number of no less than 72 voices!



And others, like homossexual male/female, or lawful/caothic, etc...



I wish I could express myself correctly in English but I think this is it: on the actual level of technology is impossible to make a full voiced player character in this type of game... Unless you take an aproach similar to ME, severing limiting the choices.

[Kyogen]

R1cardo wrote...
I wish I could express myself correctly in English but I think this is it: on the actual level of technology is impossible to make a full voiced player character in this type of game... Unless you take an aproach similar to ME, severing limiting the choices.

No worries. Expressed very well.

I agree that the technical difficulties make fully voiced PCs unrealistic for games like DA:O or Oblivion in which the emphasis is on customization. Games like Mass Effect and The Witcher have the advantage of limiting the roleplay to nuances in a single character, so one voice actor can take on the script. Personally, I like both styles as long as the gameplay is smooth, so a mute PC in DA:O is fine for me.

[frostajulie]

I loved the way my shephard was voced in Mass Effect, Jen was the best voice for my PC, I was very disappointed that my character was mute in DA:O So disappointed that I almost chose not to play the game. Add to the fact that combat was not very satisfying and I almost missed out on one of the best games I have ever played in terms of entertainment.



I am in the crowd of hopefuls that want their character voiced in the next installment of the series,

[Cryo84]

Mass Effect did it brilliantly, DA was a step backwards.