73 réponses à ce sujet

[DiegoRaphael]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Oh and predictably the KOTOR MMO isn't having the legs EA wanted it to have. Last I heard about that game it was hemorrhaging players and will soon be free-to-play (or already is I'm not really keeping tabs on the MMO).

It's under 1million players already.

[Renmiri1]

KOTOR goes free to play in the fall, AFAIK But that is when Guild Wars 2 launches and WoW Mysts launch so if I was Bioware I wouldn't hold my breath.

[Plaintiff]

I don't really give even half of a **** what 'PC gamers' think, because every single one I've met was an elitist douchebag with an insulting, bigoted attitude towards console users, and an obsessive hatred of change that borders on the autistic.

I think DA2 is a vast improvement over Origins in several different ways. I haven't played Mass Effect.

[Mello]

Plaintiff wrote...

I don't really give even half of a **** what 'PC gamers' think, because every single one I've met was an elitist douchebag with an insulting, bigoted attitude towards console users, and an obsessive hatred of change that borders on the autistic.

I think DA2 is a vast improvement over Origins in several different ways. I haven't played Mass Effect.

Woah, woah, woah we arent all bad. Well i'm not actually a full on PC gamer i play both PC and Console. But come on give the PC Gamer's a break. 

[Plaintiff]

iPoohCupCakes wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

I don't really give even half of a **** what 'PC gamers' think, because every single one I've met was an elitist douchebag with an insulting, bigoted attitude towards console users, and an obsessive hatred of change that borders on the autistic.

I think DA2 is a vast improvement over Origins in several different ways. I haven't played Mass Effect.

Woah, woah, woah we arent all bad. Well i'm not actually a full on PC gamer i play both PC and Console. But come on give the PC Gamer's a break. 

Well, I'm open to the possibilty that some PC gamers aren't terrible people. I'm jut saying, I've not met any yet.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Plaintiff wrote...

I don't really give even half of a **** what 'PC gamers' think, because every single one I've met was an elitist douchebag with an insulting, bigoted attitude towards console users, and an obsessive hatred of change that borders on the autistic.

I think DA2 is a vast improvement over Origins in several different ways. I haven't played Mass Effect.

And every console gamer I've ever met is a squeaky little brat who thinks Halo is the pinacle of gaming.

Please, don't generalize.

[Randomjack]

Mass Effect peaked in the second one, although the third was still quite good ending aside.

As for Dragon Age, I'm one of the few people who liked DA2 alot. The gameplay wasn't as insufferable as origins can be sometimes, the story and themes were interesting (DAO was a well done take on the "fight the evil orcs" plot....but it was still that plot. DA2 dug into prejudice, security vs freedom, and the mage vs templar conflict quite well), and there were many memorable characters. That being said, copypasta environments were a pain and character interaction annoyingly went in the Mass Effect direction of "talk to somebody 3 times and you're best friends/dating."

Ideally, I would like to see...
-Origins strategy with DA2's speed and some simplification (also less repetitive - I can only fight so many skeletons)
-As much character interaction as humanly possible. I'm one of the people who would still play it if they removed gameplay and just had the dialog wheel. There's no way its that resource intensive, relatively speaking, to write/voice/animate party chat scenes.
-The options of Origins, with the voiced protagonist and intent-specific dialog wheel of DA2 (ie charm vs peaceful vs romantic ect)
-A great wrap up which banks on not having to set up for sequels, like ME3 could have done
-The sense of home and family created by the Hawke story and Kirkwall setting, but with the free roaming adventure of Origins

[KLUME777]

Plaintiff wrote...

I don't really give even half of a **** what 'PC gamers' think, because every single one I've met was an elitist douchebag with an insulting, bigoted attitude towards console users, and an obsessive hatred of change that borders on the autistic.

I think DA2 is a vast improvement over Origins in several different ways. I haven't played Mass Effect.

Maybe the reason PC gamers are so grumpy towards consoles is because this gens consoles are holding gaming back by an immense amount, as well as introducing a whole load of **** into the industry that wasnt there last gen.

Seems your the ignorant bigoted one here.

[hussey 92]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Call me crazy but I liked DA2 much more than DAO.

Yes, I can see that the world got smaller and that the interaction with NPCs got restricted. But the story is so much better, IMHO. Dragon Age Origins is your typical "lets kill evil lord" fare we have been getting for 40+ years since Lord of the Rings. DA2 on the other hand is a true human story about prejudice, persecution, going from rags to riches... Combat system is also much better, DAO combat was almost unplayable to me.

Alas all the budget cutbacks in world exploration and that silly dungeon reuse tainted the game so much that most people hated it. The game got worse in a lot of aspects but it got better in some. I hope DA3 brings out the best in both.

The rags to riches part would have been a plus if you had some control over it, but instead it was just part of the plot and automaticaly happened by act 2.

And combat wise, i thought the tactics in DAO were amazing while the action in DA2 just ended up being alot of button mashing

[Ninja Stan]

If the platform elitism doesn't stop immediately, this thread will be locked.

[Cultist]

Cstaf wrote...
I agree to some extent. I do think that DA:O sold alot of copies just by word of mouth and i think DA2 lost sales for the same reason. But, you would expect week 4-8 to have higher sales than the average sales per week due to christmas. But even though those figures are inflated it's probably not sufficient to explain all variation. I've made seasonal adjustments before when modeling for sales forecasts and on average 20-30% of the sales in that month can be explained by the "decembber effect". This obviously varies depending on the category of the product where food always increases the most. Haven't done sales forecast on games though so can only speculate.

What you want to look at is the rate of decline in sales after making seasonal adjustments. And you can clearly see that the rate of decline in sales of DA2 is alot higher even after seasonal adjustments.

Edit: I can calculate the seasonal adjustment required for both games to have the same decline of sales if you are interested. - And yes im a bit of a nerd when it comes to statistics

The whole point was about decrease of sales. Dragon Age 2 started better on all platforms - to the point where it sold THREE times more on PC than Origins. And then, Origins removed the gap and surpassed DA2 by being far superior and gaining popularity via word of mouth. DA2, instead, suffered constant decrease of sales that never stopped.

[zyntifox]

I pretty much believe that DA3 will determine the future of Bioware. They need to win back their core fans. Even though the core fans are a small minority of all who buys their products; there are so much gains from catering to them that cannot be quantified. A satisfied core fan will want his friends and family to enjoy the experience delivered by the game more passionately than a non-core fan.

I think Bioware have to decide what fanbase do they want to cater to with the two franchises. Do you want a game that focus on the roleplaying experience, or do you want to tell a good story through interactive gameplay. Don't try and do both because you will end up disappointing everyone instead of just one fanbase that prefers one of the two.

[zyntifox]

Cultist wrote...

Cstaf wrote...
I agree to some extent. I do think that DA:O sold alot of copies just by word of mouth and i think DA2 lost sales for the same reason. But, you would expect week 4-8 to have higher sales than the average sales per week due to christmas. But even though those figures are inflated it's probably not sufficient to explain all variation. I've made seasonal adjustments before when modeling for sales forecasts and on average 20-30% of the sales in that month can be explained by the "decembber effect". This obviously varies depending on the category of the product where food always increases the most. Haven't done sales forecast on games though so can only speculate.

What you want to look at is the rate of decline in sales after making seasonal adjustments. And you can clearly see that the rate of decline in sales of DA2 is alot higher even after seasonal adjustments.

Edit: I can calculate the seasonal adjustment required for both games to have the same decline of sales if you are interested. - And yes im a bit of a nerd when it comes to statistics

The whole point was about decrease of sales. Dragon Age 2 started better on all platforms - to the point where it sold THREE times more on PC than Origins. And then, Origins removed the gap and surpassed DA2 by being far superior and gaining popularity via word of mouth. DA2, instead, suffered constant decrease of sales that never stopped.

I agree. But i think there would have still been a constant decrease of DA:O if it would have been released in the spring. However, the rate of decrease of sales would still be significantly lower than DA2 for the reason you said, word of mouth.

[Plaintiff]

Whoops, mispost

Modifié par Plaintiff, 04 août 2012 - 11:32 .

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

I don't think you can hold console responsible for DA2, Bioware clearly went after the call of duty market with DA2 and it turns out that evolving there product that way makes a really ****ty game which very few people liked.

lessons to be learned from DA2 is

Know your target audience and stick to it, don't try to broaden your fan base.

Modifié par DinoSteve, 04 août 2012 - 01:49 .

[zyntifox]

DinoSteve wrote...

I don't think you can hold console responsible for DA2, Bioware clearly went after the call of duty market with DA2 and it turns out that evolving there product that way makes a really ****ty game which very few people liked.

lessons to be learned from DA2 is

Know your target audience and stick to it, don't try to broaden your fan base.

The first part i agree with. The second part i absolutely don't agree with. They can broaden their fanbase without abandoning what makes the core fanbase love the game/serie. Now, i would argue that Bioware failed horribly at it in DA2. They did not only fail at understanding why the fans loved DA:O but also failed at expanding the fanbase.

[Cultist]

"The best partner we have to get new customers are our existing customers. So figuring ways that we can help them help us get more customers is the best"
The man,  who knows absolutely NOTHING about games and how to make money out of them
Srsly, he should learn from Electronic Arts and bioWare how to make business.

But BioWare decided to discard every aspect of Origins "core" fans liked in favor of arcadeness and simplification. Entire features were scrapped  and replaced with horribly dumbed down alternatives. trying to please both RPG and action\\arcade fans at the same time is like trying to please football and hockey players at the same time on the same field.

Modifié par Cultist, 04 août 2012 - 10:00 .

[MrCrabby]

Cultist wrote...

"The best partner we have to get new customers are our existing customers. So figuring ways that we can help them help us get more customers is the best"
The man,  who knows absolutely NOTHING about games and how to make money out of them
Srsly, he should learn from Electronic Arts and bioWare how to make business.

But BioWare decided to discard every aspect of Origins "core" fans liked in favor of arcadeness and simplification. Entire features were scrapped  and replaced with horribly dumbed down alternatives. trying to please both RPG and actionarcade fans at the same time is like trying to please football and hockey players at the same time on the same field.

I prefer this analogy:

Action - rpgs are like couples porn. By trying to appeal to two very different mindsets you end up not getting anyone off.

[Renmiri1]

I actually liked both DAO and DA2. And am a PC gamer mostly. My xbox is gathering dust while my kids play the Wii

Dragon Age 2 had a deeper more creative story. I just love the nuanced story and characters. No one is pure evil, not even Meredith. No one is pure angel, not even Merril or Aveline. Well perhaps Bethany... And Anders, Fenris, Cullen are such great characters But it does suffer from the short development time. Those reused dungeons are ridiculous! Sure Skyrim reused stuff but it isn't obvious like going through the same dungeon map 11 times and having closed doors. UGH

[Wivvix]

I don't think you need to actually survey the community to know that the Dragon Age franchise got worse from DAO to DA2.

If you look at what Mike Laidlaw has said about DA3, nothing much will change. They're making minor cosmetic changes to some of the aspects of DA2 which were negatively received, ignoring all the others, and have said they won't re-use dungeons over and over and over.

I wouldn't be surprised if DA3 has the lowest first week sales of any Bioware title in the companies history.

[Melca36]

Renmiri1 wrote...

KOTOR goes free to play in the fall, AFAIK But that is when Guild Wars 2 launches and WoW Mysts launch so if I was Bioware I wouldn't hold my breath.

Heard Guild Wars 2 preorders hit 4.5 million

[carine]

There is barely any information on Dragon Age 3. The game isn't even announced yet. Wait for some solid information before saying that the game is going to be just as bad as DA2 or terrible or whatever. We don't know what the combat is going to be like, we don't know if we're going to play as a set protagonist or if we get to choose races. We don't know if there even really will be a Dragon Age 3.

But anyway. I don't think BioWare has gotten worse. The ending for ME3, yeah, it was pretty bad. I got annoyed with autodialogue at times. But Mass Effect 3 was the most emotional game I've ever played, and I have no regrets buying the N7 edition at midnight and spending way too much time playing it. Dragon Age 2, I think, just dealt with deadline issues and being rushed. The dialogue wheel was different, but I love the story aspects There wasn't a cut and dry "right" or "wrong" in regards to the mages versus the templars. It was a fantastic social justice story.

Obviously this is all my opinion, but I have a lot of faith in BioWare to deliver and they haven't disappointed me yet.

[zyntifox]

carine wrote...

There is barely any information on Dragon Age 3. The game isn't even announced yet. Wait for some solid information before saying that the game is going to be just as bad as DA2 or terrible or whatever. We don't know what the combat is going to be like, we don't know if we're going to play as a set protagonist or if we get to choose races. We don't know if there even really will be a Dragon Age 3.

But anyway. I don't think BioWare has gotten worse. The ending for ME3, yeah, it was pretty bad. I got annoyed with autodialogue at times. But Mass Effect 3 was the most emotional game I've ever played, and I have no regrets buying the N7 edition at midnight and spending way too much time playing it. Dragon Age 2, I think, just dealt with deadline issues and being rushed. The dialogue wheel was different, but I love the story aspects There wasn't a cut and dry "right" or "wrong" in regards to the mages versus the templars. It was a fantastic social justice story.

Obviously this is all my opinion, but I have a lot of faith in BioWare to deliver and they haven't disappointed me yet.

You are right there aren't alot of information regarding DA3 yet. However, the little bit of information that we have gotten is worrying for the people who originally started playing this series for the roleplaying experience. David have made it clear that they want to make this franschise more cinematic, i.e. Mass effect the series. And cinematic in RPGs are great as long as it does not take control over the PC and do something that is out of character, which was a fine line they balanced very well in the cinematics of DA:O.

But it get the feeling, and i might be wrong, that this will not be the case in DA3 as it was not the case in DA2 where the PC constantly talked and acted without my input. And i am perfectly fine with them going this route but do not call it a RPG. Call it for what it is; a interactive action/adventure game like Mass effect. What i do not get about this move however is why do a 180 on a franschise? If you want a fantasy game with focus on cinematic then why not create a new franschise where this is the focus from the start? And create a set character that we play instead of giving us the illusion that just because we can change the look of the PC it somehow makes it a non-set character. Now, if they would go that way, instead of trying to have the cake and eat it, i would pre-order that game and probably enjoy it for what it is, a interactive action/adventure game. Just as i enjoy Mass effect.

[zyntifox]

PurebredCorn wrote...

Skewed poll is skewed.

Like i wrote before; even though the sample might be biased the estimate of the proportion is fairly robust with a large enough sample size. I make forecasts with smaller biased sample to make inference about larger population than this when i work. Now if the data was category or continous there will be a lot more problems with bias but since it is binary with such a large sample size the uncertainty in the estimate will be small.

You shouldn't dismiss a poll just because you happen to not like the result.