177 réponses à ce sujet

[Terminus Echoes]

I thought he was a pretty good antagonist. Tied the games in with the books a bit, which I have never actually read because they sounded really stupid (the only ME book I read was Revelation).

He was cool, new, and, unlike the Illusive Man, gave reason for you to hate him. He kills the Salarian Councilor/Thane/Kirrahe, steals Vendetta on Thessia, sends you a taunting email, and attacks Miranda. I have to say that when he showed up and got away at Thessia, that was the biggest "Holy crap" emotional moment I had in the game.

So why does everyone hate him?

[RavenEyry]

I didn't think he was good, but I did think he was supposed to come off as a whiny egotistical coward. I personally think Kai Leng was well written and you're supposed to dislike him.

[The Angry One]

You can give reasons to hate antagonists without making them moronic trolls.

Kai Leng is a moronic troll. Moreover, he doesn't display any ability to back up his boasts.
He's incompetent, fails at everything he does and succeeds only with plot armour and cheating.
One way to guarantee that a player will look down on a character is having that character be easily beatable in gameplay then have them win in a cutscene.

[What a Succulent Ass]

RavenEyry wrote...

I didn't think he was good, but I did think he was supposed to come off as a whiny egotistical coward. I personally think Kai Leng was well written and you're supposed to dislike him.

You're supposed to dislike him because of his merits as an antagonist, not because he's a whiny, incompetent, childish, space ninja Asian stereotype with plot armour more durable than over nine-thousand layers of Kevlar. He's a horrendously written joke.

[flanny]

In the 3rd book he was a great character who i hoped would team up with Shepard. In ME3 he just comes across as a generic cartoon villain, I never felt anger towards him as he didn't have a believable feel to him, I only thought he was a bit sad.

[Lionel Ou]

I found him to be a badly written character in that he wrenched me out of the game and into "who wrote this idiot?" territory. Every scene in which he is involved is designed to invoke the feeling of hatred / disgust towards him, yet I'm never given an idea of why my Shepard hates him so much.

He shows up, flips around a bit, kills Thane in a scene so full of bad decisions it's laughable, then flips around on Thessia in another scene full plot armour. It took me 20 seconds to shoot him down, then I get a cut scene that changes the outcome of the battle I just played? While ME 1 and 2 had their cut scenes, I can't remember any scene that changed the outcome of a battle so dramatically.Yes, Saren's cutscene in 1 was quite bad as well with the way he suddenly grabbed me by the throat, yet at least I got away from him and blew up his facility.

If they wanted him to be anything more than a laughable plot device for Cerberus to get important items or information before Shepard, then write the scenes better. Make him a master of infiltration that is good at hiding and assassinations, not a fighter that's slightly better than a husk.

[flanny]

The Angry One wrote...

You can give reasons to hate antagonists without making them moronic trolls.

Kai Leng is a moronic troll. Moreover, he doesn't display any ability to back up his boasts.
He's incompetent, fails at everything he does and succeeds only with plot armour and cheating.
One way to guarantee that a player will look down on a character is having that character be easily beatable in gameplay then have them win in a cutscene.

agree. Citadel: (in my game) fails to kill the salarian councillor, only kills Thane because Thane charges at him like an amateur, while Shepard and squad sits back and watches.
Thessia: gets beat then runs away... because...erm, while Shepard + Squad + Normandy do nothing to stop him.
Horizon: seems to run away.
Cronos Station: pathetic boss fight, who only lasts because he's somehow immune to damage when his shields drop?

[Jadebaby]

The Angry One wrote...

You can give reasons to hate antagonists without making them moronic trolls.

Kai Leng is a moronic troll. Moreover, he doesn't display any ability to back up his boasts.
He's incompetent, fails at everything he does and succeeds only with plot armour and cheating.
One way to guarantee that a player will look down on a character is having that character be easily beatable in gameplay then have them win in a cutscene.

[C9316]

Because he's an incompentent lap dog. Seriously how does he basically lose to a dying drell and heck it's thanks to him we figure out where TIM's base is. Bottom line, he's a complete joke unless the plot demanded otherwise.

[Stalker]

"Kai Leng" is the scale for a bad antagonist.

Sure we are all supposed to hate the villain, but there are differences:
Saren was damn capable of reaching his goals and was Shepard's match as a rogue Spectre.
Kai Leng is just that awkward teenager who jumps around like a ninja and fails at everything, yet brags about the smallest cowardly wins.

[The Angry One]

As for villains that work as hatable, you don't even have to go far from Mass Effect for an example.

Saren does nothing to endear himself, yet his goals are understandable - if misguided.
Then there's Harbinger. Now, Harbinger is a troll and can be very annoying, but he is at least competent. He backs up his bothersome rants with the fact that he did actually beat (and kill) Shepard once, and comes very close to succeeding at least once.

[Chashan]

Terminus Echoes wrote...

I thought he was a pretty good antagonist. Tied the games in with the books a bit, which I have never actually read because they sounded really stupid (the only ME book I read was Revelation).

He was cool, new, and, unlike the Illusive Man, gave reason for you to hate him. He kills the Salarian Councilor/Thane/Kirrahe, steals Vendetta on Thessia, sends you a taunting email, and attacks Miranda. I have to say that when he showed up and got away at Thessia, that was the biggest "Holy crap" emotional moment I had in the game.

So why does everyone hate him?

His worst crime is that he stole my guddam cereal. And he still continues to do so in MP, planting his booty on maps for us to recover.

In all seriousness, a character whose nickname is "cereal killer" simply cannot be taken for full. And as others have mentioned, his plot armour was annoying as all nine hells. We were able to flak Mantis gunships well enough in ME2. Now, in ME3, they are frikkin' immortal due to an oversized flashlight...

[LanceSolous13]

He's hated because he was poorly written...

Kai Leng is given no introduction. The closest we get is Shepard and Miranda's Vid call on the Citadel. Kai Leng appears, we have no idea who he is, He kills my bro. the Galaxy's greatest assassin, in a VERY poor cutscene-incompetence infested fight sequence while Shepard and crew just stand there... No less than a min later, Shepard is too incompetent to shoot Kai Leng when he takes his shields down. And, later, Shepard can't fire at him when he gets in an elevator.

On Thessia, We finally get to kick this guy's ass! Except, He constantly runs to his precious little ship for covering fire. Oh well, I was still able to beat him right?

WRONG!

Liara suddenly forgets to pull the trigger when Leng is right in front of her and my second squaddie can't dodge a flying Liara. Just forget about Liara maybe using her Biotics here.

And then Leng just...Runs away. It wasn't an emotional 'oh crap' moment unless you count me yelling at Shepard going "YOU F$%^ING MORON! WTF SHEP?!"

So, I got to his boss and.....He randomly can't take damage while he runs to a certain side of the room? O . o And, as before in the other battle, He's nothing more than a weaker Phantom.

The only decent thing about him is he gives the best line in the game. "THAT WAS FOR THANE YOU SON OF A ****!" Its only decent because Leng is the reason it needed to be said in the first place.

Leng is a book character and, just like all of the other novel series characters, We are never given any explanation on who they are and what their place in this mess is.

So, I HATED Kai Leng, but not for the reasons Bioware wanted me to.

[Xellith]

He came off as a child having a tantrum.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

The Angry One wrote...

As for villains that work as hatable, you don't even have to go far from Mass Effect for an example.

Saren does nothing to endear himself, yet his goals are understandable - if misguided.
Then there's Harbinger. Now, Harbinger is a troll and can be very annoying, but he is at least competent. He backs up his bothersome rants with the fact that he did actually beat (and kill) Shepard once, and comes very close to succeeding at least once.

I would used Tela Vasir instead of Harbinger.

She plays Shepard, blows up a bulding and takes a hostage. She even wins over Shepard in the mid-air struggle and was almost ready to kill him.

All while not coming off as a villain-sue.

And unlike Kai Leng, she actually has character depth,  which is why she works as a dark counterpart to Shepard.

[The Angry One]

Lizardviking wrote...

I would used Tela Vasir instead of Harbinger.

She plays Shepard, blows up a bulding and takes a hostage. She even wins over Shepard in the mid-air struggle and was almost ready to kill him.

All while not coming off as a villain-sue.

And unlike Kai Leng, she actually has character depth,  which is why she works as a dark counterpart to Shepard.

Yeah as a counter-Shepard example, certainly. Though I find her comparisons of joining the Shadow Broker to Shepard joining Cerberus annoying.

Modifié par The Angry One, 02 août 2012 - 12:00 .

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Kai Leng is just...weak.

Saren we could hate the the right reasons.

Harbinger was a world class troll who could back it up.

Vasir was reasonably badass and provided one of the best boss fights in the series.

Leng is a failure on so many levels it skips comedy and goes right to pathetic.

[zeypher]

All his supposed vicotries against shepard were due to sloppy writing and cutscene stupidty. A gunship which i used to blow up regularly in 2 is suddenly invinsicble, and cutscenes make shepard a retard. I hate the frikin cimeatics crap devs go on about these days. They almost always end up making your character a retard in them

Modifié par zeypher, 02 août 2012 - 12:04 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

The Angry One wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

I would used Tela Vasir instead of Harbinger.

She plays Shepard, blows up a bulding and takes a hostage. She even wins over Shepard in the mid-air struggle and was almost ready to kill him.

All while not coming off as a villain-sue.

And unlike Kai Leng, she actually has character depth,  which is why she works as a dark counterpart to Shepard.

Yeah as a counter-Shepard example, certainly. Though I find her comparisons of joining the Shadow Broker to Shepard joining Cerberus annoying.

I thought it worked fine enough, though I guess someone might find it annoying since the player has no say in it, paragon-Shepard also acted a bit too stupid when trying to defend himself.

[fchopin]

Terminus Echoes wrote...

I thought he was a pretty good antagonist. Tied the games in with the books a bit,

I am here to play games and have no interest in silly books.
Why is this person in mass effect? He does not belong in the game.

[Xellith]

Kai Leng makes me think of a retarded storm trooper.

[GreyLycanTrope]

He's not threatening at all and fails as an antagonist, I couldn't take him seriously. Plot armor was the only reason he survives our first encounter.

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 02 août 2012 - 12:07 .

[Jassu1979]

He's a cardboard villain, lacking all complexity and character.

I don't know whether the supplementary novels make him more of a fleshed-out, balanced antagonist, but what we've got in the game is Mr. Black-stands-for-Evil spouting stupid one-liners.

In a universe that features lots of shades of grey, and lots of multi-faceted characters with complex agendas, he just stands out like a sore thumb.

[Ageless Face]

My problem with the guy is that he isn't more than a simple antagonist that was added just to make Shepard's life difficult. Him giving us only reasons to hate him is not something good about him. There is no way to symphesise with his character, he seem to stand for nothing, there is nothing about him. He's nothing more than a puppet for TIM, not a great character here. Even with reading the books, I don't find him an interesting character at all in the game. And that's sad, he was pretty cool in the books.

[The Angry One]

fchopin wrote...

Terminus Echoes wrote...

I thought he was a pretty good antagonist. Tied the games in with the books a bit,

I am here to play games and have no interest in silly books.
Why is this person in mass effect? He does not belong in the game.

And in any case, Saren tied ME1 with a book too.

The difference was, he wasn't a book character. The book expanded on his backstory, but the important details of that backstory were provided in-game. You didn't NEED a book to understand who Saren was.