433 réponses à ce sujet

[Siran]

humes spork wrote...

Weapons and characters are necessities. Gear is not. Gear provides a boost to a character's strength, or shores up a weakness, but does not impact viability. Gear is not something without which you cannot succeed. Moreover, the pack system is designed to guarantee weapons and characters, not gear. Gear is not "guaranteed" when you buy packs as are weapons and characters (which is the lynchpin of weapon rarity classification within the context of the reinforcement pack system). That is the origin of gear's comparative rarity, as I've elaborated earlier in this very thread.

If you want to pick nits about what color gear cards are, fine, that's your prerogative.

You're constantly ignoring several facts.

1) They are named after the rarity of guns and weapons, if they have their own "category" as you claim, then they should have been named otherwise. This is not nitpicking. There is a reason behind categorizing them. The way you describe defies any rule of proper labeling and is counter-intuitive.

2) The gear drop-rate for Rebellion was / is fine and along what could be expected of their labeled rarity. So stating that gear has it's own category and it's own "laws" is just a false assumption you make with nothing to back it up.

Your whole argument is based on your assumptions of how the shop is built in your eyes, yet you keep ignoring basic facts.

Modifié par Siran, 03 août 2012 - 07:47 .

[Cloaking_Thane]

I completely disagree with your premise which is roughly that Bioware needs to make a profit, prevent "stockpilers" (FYI I dont stock pile I buy after every game or two max).

If that were the case we would have seen these effects by rebellion.

Further "complaining" about the "uncommon" classification is not supefluious, it's their system and there is plenty of precedent to suggest that you would get at least one uncommon gear after some 20-30 million credits spent.

In fact I've gotten 5 or so "rare gears" and 5-6 "ultra rare" weapons in the meantime.

BW need to clarify if what you say is indeed their intention

[Ramsutin]

Just got a new rare gear from VP. After many PSPs not getting any I was stunned.

[rka001]

humes spork wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Like 20-30 million credits hard and I've not even got 1 silver earth one?

A little excessive no?

Nope, I don't think so. ME3MP is hardly a persistent, player-driven, online economy, but on the other hand when you have a system set up such as ME3MP's is the developers need to integrate a way for players to sink money. Otherwise, players stockpile in-game money and sink it all when new content is released to unlock everything new at once, then proceed to complain for however long until the next content release because they're, surprisingly enough, not unlocking anything new. When that happens, RMT ceases and the game dies on merit its F2P model is no longer profitable.

The issue BW faces with ME3MP and its profitability is compounded by credit-farming matches, and uniquely the rocket glitch turning the steady stream of credits players received into a tsunami. BW needs players to sink a lot of credits, fast, to keep the game profitable and consequently alive.

Hence, gear (or what I presume BioWare intends with it). Persistent equipment that provides decent bonuses without class- or weapon-dependent limitation, that happens to be rare so players keep sinking credits (and engaging in RMT) to get it. Rather than, you know, stockpiling credits and unlocking all new content as it's released then whining when they have nothing new to unlock.

Three distinct posts about card "color".

Weapons and characters are necessities. Gear is not. Gear provides a boost to a character's strength, or shores up a weakness, but does not impact viability. Gear is not something without which you cannot succeed. Moreover, the pack system is designed to guarantee weapons and characters, not gear. Gear is not "guaranteed" when you buy packs as are weapons and characters (which is the lynchpin of weapon rarity classification within the context of the reinforcement pack system). That is the origin of gear's comparative rarity, as I've elaborated earlier in this very thread.

If you want to pick nits about what color gear cards are, fine, that's your prerogative.

You are mixing up statistical necessities (i. e. same rarity - same drop rates, as provided by the RNG algorithm) with personally  biased ideas about how the rarities should work and which design principles may or may not lay underneath.

We are basically talking mathematics, and this excludes any personal view about the importance of item containers. Sorry.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

DxWill103 wrote...

humes spork wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Like 20-30 million credits hard and I've not even got 1 silver earth one?

A little excessive no?

Nope, I don't think so. ME3MP is hardly a persistent, player-driven, online economy, but on the other hand when you have a system set up such as ME3MP's is the developers need to integrate a way for players to sink money. Otherwise, players stockpile in-game money and sink it all when new content is released to unlock everything new at once, then proceed to complain for however long until the next content release because they're, surprisingly enough, not unlocking anything new. When that happens, RMT ceases and the game dies on merit its F2P model is no longer profitable.

The issue BW faces with ME3MP and its profitability is compounded by credit-farming matches, and uniquely the rocket glitch turning the steady stream of credits players received into a tsunami. BW needs players to sink a lot of credits, fast, to keep the game profitable and consequently alive.

Hence, gear (or what I presume BioWare intends with it). Persistent equipment that provides decent bonuses without class- or weapon-dependent limitation, that happens to be rare so players keep sinking credits (and engaging in RMT) to get it. Rather than, you know, stockpiling credits and unlocking all new content as it's released then whining when they have nothing new to unlock.

Three distinct posts about card "color".

Weapons and characters are necessities. Gear is not. Gear provides a boost to a character's strength, or shores up a weakness, but does not impact viability. Gear is not something without which you cannot succeed. Moreover, the pack system is designed to guarantee weapons and characters, not gear. Gear is not "guaranteed" when you buy packs as are weapons and characters (which is the lynchpin of weapon rarity classification within the context of the reinforcement pack system). That is the origin of gear's comparative rarity, as I've elaborated earlier in this very thread.

If you want to pick nits about what color gear cards are, fine, that's your prerogative.

This.  As long as people have something to unlock, they're going to complain about how bad the drop rate is for it, regardless if the drop rate is intended to be difficult to obtain or not. 

The simple way to stop stressing out over this uncommon and rare earth gear is:  Don't treat or compare Uncommon earth gear to say, a Mattock or Viper.  Although they're the same category of rarity, Humes explains why they, in fact, are not the same value in rarity.  They are there for people to continually to have something to unlock aside from URs.  Whether or not you think the system is functionally sound or not is academic.

There is a chance that this isn't intended, but it's generally safe to assume that if the system currently in place encourages people to play and spend $ / credits on items that don't drop often, it's probably a system that is working as intended. 

Sure I'd like to get my gear maxed ASAP too, but imo, start treating gear as UR value, perhaps rarer.  When you assume this gear is difficult to get in order to keep people unlocking stuff (and therefore, keep them playing)  you'll find you spend much less time stressing out over drop rates, and more time enjoying the game

I'm sorry, but this an utterly ridiculous argument.  BioWare has set up a clear precedent with the various rarity levels.  From most-rare to least-rare: Ultra-Rare > Rare > Uncommon > Common.  Misrepresenting an item, calling it "Uncommon" when its drop rate suggests it's closer to Ultra-Rare, is deceptive.

You claim that BioWare made it this way to give people more to unlock than URs.  You encourage people to "start treating gear as UR value, perhaps rarer."  So tell me - why do you think BioWare didn't make this new gear Ultra-Rare, reflecting its true value and drop rate?  If it's not to deceive people, then what is it?

[humes spork]

Siran wrote...

You're constantly ignoring several facts.

Facing facts, like what? That weapon/character/item "rarity" has absolutely no bearing on its actual rarity whatsoever, save black cards which only appear a percentage of the time in SP's/PSP's, and serves primarily as an indicator of what pack you have to buy to get the item? That, in itself, is a factor of the time and effort required to get the items from the onset, and nominally a gradient of weapon quality opposed to weapon rarity.

You guys want to talk math, okay, let's talk math.

There are five "common", eleven "uncommon", eighteen "rare", and eleven "ultra-rare" weapons. There are more "UR" weapons than "commons". There are as many "UR" weapons as there are "uncommons". There are more "rare" weapons than "commons" and "uncommons" put together. There are fifteen "uncommon" and fourteen "rare" gears, the "common/uncommon/rare" split between weapon mods is 13/11/5, and the "C/U/R" split between characters is 12/6/24.

All together, there are 30 "common", 42 "uncommon", 61 "rare", and eleven "ultra rare" cards in total. Not counting equipment, of course. Rares apparently aren't very goddamn rare, are they. Especially for the fact "guaranteed" slots in reinforcement packs do NOT include gear (at least, not that I have ever personally seen).

Modifié par humes spork, 03 août 2012 - 08:40 .

[superligerzero]

Ramsutin wrote...

Just got a new rare gear from VP. After many PSPs not getting any I was stunned.

I tried that the other day and it did work...for a little bit so now I'm getting lv3 comsunables.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

humes spork wrote...

Siran wrote...

You're constantly ignoring several facts.

Facing facts, like what? That weapon/character/item "rarity" has absolutely no bearing on its actual rarity whatsoever, save black cards which only appear a percentage of the time in SP's/PSP's, and serves primarily as an indicator of what pack you have to buy to get the item? That, in itself, is a factor of the time and effort required to get the items from the onset, and nominally a gradient of weapon quality opposed to weapon rarity.

You guys want to talk math, okay, let's talk math.

There are five "common", eleven "uncommon", eighteen "rare", and eleven "ultra-rare" weapons. There are more "UR" weapons than "commons". There are as many "UR" weapons as there are "uncommons". There are more "rare" weapons than "commons" and "uncommons" put together. There are fifteen "uncommon" and fourteen "rare" gears, the "common/uncommon/rare" split between weapon mods is 13/11/5, and the "C/U/R" split between characters is 12/6/24.

All together, there are 30 "common", 42 "uncommon", 61 "rare", and eleven "ultra rare" cards in total. Not counting equipment, of course. Rares apparently aren't very goddamn rare, are they. Especially for the fact "guaranteed" slots in reinforcement packs do NOT include gear (at least, not that I have ever personally seen).

So you admit then that the store is based on a misleading premise - item rarity having no bearing on actual rarity.

[Kirrahe Airlines CEO]

I've gotten most of the old gear maxed out, but I still haven't maxed out five of the old uncommon ones. Structural ergonomics is still stuck at IV, pistol amp is stuck at II, shotgun amp is stuck at IV, shield booster is still at III, along with vulnerability VI, and mental focuser. Hell, I got all the old rare gear maxed out before all the uncommons.

[Siran]

humes spork wrote...

Facing facts, like what? That weapon/character/item "rarity" has absolutely no bearing on its actual rarity whatsoever, save black cards which only appear a percentage of the time in SP's/PSP's, and serves primarily as an indicator of what pack you have to buy to get the item? That, in itself, is a factor of the time and effort required to get the items from the onset, and nominally a gradient of weapon quality opposed to weapon rarity.

Again you're talking about how you imagine the shop to be like in your eyes. Just because there is a pack that guarantees a rare item does not change it's rarity. You basically get a 100% chance for a rare item in a SP as opposed to a lesser chance for 1/3 the price in a VP. Many lotteries work this way - buy a higher priced ticket for a bigger chance. Rarity and quality go hand in hand, they are not exclusive as you imply. Of course an item that is harder to obtain should be of higher quality.

And you're evading the subject once more, labeling items the same way implies they are treated the same way. You cannot compare quality across different categories of cards. It's not sensible to compare the N7 Fury with the Claymore or the Warfighter Gear. But you can and should be able to compare their drop-chance by their rarity indicator- A rare gear should have the same chance of dropping as a rare weapon or a rare character. How can you still claim this is not true?

There are five "common", eleven "uncommon", eighteen "rare", and eleven "ultra-rare" weapons. There are more "UR" weapons than "commons". There are as many "UR" weapons as there are "uncommons". There are more "rare" weapons than "commons" and "uncommons" put together. There are fifteen "uncommon" and fourteen "rare" gears, the "common/uncommon/rare" split between weapon mods is 13/11/5, and the "C/U/R" split between characters is 12/6/24.

Your point being? The total number of items does not change their rarity, it only changes the chance of getting a specific item among the rare ones. Rarity refers to their chance of acquiring them with a certain amount of money you spend.

Especially for the fact "guaranteed" slots in reinforcement packs do NOT include gear (at least, not that I have ever personally seen).

When I bought 1,7mil worth of SP yesterday the two "rare" gears that dropped were in that "guaranteed" slot you claim never holds gear...

Modifié par Siran, 03 août 2012 - 09:10 .

[freemyheart]

humes spork wrote...
...or maybe, just maybe, the damn items are supposed to be hard to get. Few people, if really any, are arguing gear is easy to get. That it's hard to get is already accepted and proven. My point is, that perhaps it's supposed to be that way.

If they are supposed to be hard to get, then reclassify them as Ultra-Rare -- because saying they are Uncommon or Rare is blatantly lying.

[humes spork]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

So you admit then that the store is based on a misleading premise - item rarity having no bearing on actual rarity.

I never claimed otherwise, which is why the color of the gear cards is irrelevant to their actual and/or intended rarity, and which is also why complaining about the "color" of gear cards is nitpicky and purely academic.

[geisljapoa]

The creature under the bridge is strong in this one......

[danray1983]

I'm still extremely lucky with gear, I believe I bought 4-5 SP, and unlocked another 4-5 gears bonuses, I'll get that damn Typhoon some day. Damn RNG, lol.

[RainMane]

Maybe this is accidental or maybe they purposefully did it because they want you to keep playing the game. Pick your choice.

[SapientesGladio]

Someguy wrote...

It's a new rarity for gear only call Legend Rare, it's a .001% chance

Genius

[freemyheart]

geisljapoa wrote...

The creature under the bridge is strong in this one......

Amen.

[humes spork]

freemyheart wrote...

geisljapoa wrote...

The creature under the bridge is strong in this one......

Amen.

It is what it is, and it's unlikely to change any time in the near future. Apparently, calling that out and attempting to explain why that may be makes me a troll.

Get over it.

[TrveOmegaSlayer]

many miss the point that freemyheart, supertitan and me are trying to clarify across this board.
we want CLARITY and consistance from Bioware
IF the gear is supposed to be hard to get, change its classifiation, if it must have the level of rarity that Bioware "brags", then they have to change the drop rates.
This situation is HIGHLY deceptive
I had mentioned my 30 PSPs streak without gear (the only non UR things I miss), I strongly complain about it, I don't open threads for a 39 PSPs streak without URs

[Arppis]

Sometimes it feels like I don't get anything BUT Gear.

[D Amiri]

Decide to try the Vet pack route to getting UC Gear. Bought 18 Vets and got 4 UC Rebellion gear. So I tried 26 more. Got my last Rebellion UC, maxed rares and UC's now. Got two Earth UC's. 2 earth gers in 26 Vet packs is not a good sign.

But I'll try again in my next session and see if the drop rate improves.

[LRockDiesel]

I don't even get gears OR URs anymore.....

[rka001]

humes spork wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Like 20-30 million credits hard and I've not even got 1 silver earth one?

A little excessive no?

Nope, I don't think so. ME3MP is hardly a persistent, player-driven, online economy, but on the other hand when you have a system set up such as ME3MP's is the developers need to integrate a way for players to sink money. Otherwise, players stockpile in-game money and sink it all when new content is released to unlock everything new at once, then proceed to complain for however long until the next content release because they're, surprisingly enough, not unlocking anything new. When that happens, RMT ceases and the game dies on merit its F2P model is no longer profitable.

The issue BW faces with ME3MP and its profitability is compounded by credit-farming matches, and uniquely the rocket glitch turning the steady stream of credits players received into a tsunami. BW needs players to sink a lot of credits, fast, to keep the game profitable and consequently alive.

Hence, gear (or what I presume BioWare intends with it). Persistent equipment that provides decent bonuses without class- or weapon-dependent limitation, that happens to be rare so players keep sinking credits (and engaging in RMT) to get it. Rather than, you know, stockpiling credits and unlocking all new content as it's released then whining when they have nothing new to unlock.

Three distinct posts about card "color".

Weapons and characters are necessities. Gear is not. Gear provides a boost to a character's strength, or shores up a weakness, but does not impact viability. Gear is not something without which you cannot succeed. Moreover, the pack system is designed to guarantee weapons and characters, not gear. Gear is not "guaranteed" when you buy packs as are weapons and characters (which is the lynchpin of weapon rarity classification within the context of the reinforcement pack system). That is the origin of gear's comparative rarity, as I've elaborated earlier in this very thread.

If you want to pick nits about what color gear cards are, fine, that's your prerogative.

Also, this whole line of argument horribly fails when taking into consideration that rare weapon mods were dropping like mad. For everybody.

Or maybe weapon mods are a total NECESSITY to succeed 

[freemyheart]

Arppis wrote...

Sometimes it feels like I don't get anything BUT Gear.

It may feel like you are, but you are not.

Again, this thread is in reference to the Earth DLC Gears ONLY.

Here is how you're doing when it comes to the NEW Earth DLC Gears we are talking about in this thread.

You are 4 for 20 in so-called "Uncommon" Earth DLC Gears:
Thermal Clip Storage (3/5)
Adaptive War Amp (0/5)
Engineering Kit (1/5)
Densified Ammo (0/5)

Your so-called "Rare" Earth DLC Gears? Slightly worse percentage at 8 for 35.
Combatives Upgrade (0/5)
Martial Biotic Amp (2/5)
Juggernaut Shield (0/5)
Shock Trooper Upgrade (0/5)
Guerrilla Upgrade (1/5)
Omni Capacitors (3/5)
Barrage Upgrade (2/5)

You are 12 for 55 in Earth DLC Gear.

However, in other Rare & Ultra-Rare Earth DLC items you do have:
Piranha (3/10)
Acolyte (9/10)
Typhoon (4/10)
Pistol Crania Trauma System (5/5)
Ultralight Pistol Materials (5/5)
SMG High-Velocity Barrel (5/5)
SMG Recoil System (5/5)
Assault Rifle Omni Blade (5/5)

So, you are 12 for 55 in so-called "Uncommon" and "Rare" GEAR from the Earth DLC..
And 41 for 55 when it comes to the other "Rare" and "Ultra-Rare" items in the Earth DLC.

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with the store when it comes to the Earth DLC Gears.

I would bet the 6.7 million credits I have saved up that you will max out your Piranha, Acolyte, Typhoon, the rest of your non-promotional weapons before you level up the Earth DLC Gears to V.

[monkeybusinessIU]

This is symptomatic of a larger problem with the store, namely the progression of unlocks.

Strictly speaking, Level IV Consumables are better than endless useless character cards.

However, if you have rare weapons, characters, and gear still needing to be filled out, then getting a Premium Spectre Pack with a Medigel and some ammo is TERRIFICALLY frustrating.