317 réponses à ce sujet

[Gockey]

/Signed

[ArtGerhardt]

That was a good read. I agree with nearly everything (except i don't think farmers had anything to do with the rocket glitch).

Farmers are never going to go away. Whenever there is a repetable way to make credits, someone will farm it.

Farming is just being efficient. It's relatively quick and you die less than usual. The best solution is to make the AI smarter and the maps less geometrical. That's probably not going to happen with ME3.

I view the multiplayer as an experiment. We're all just rats going through a maze.

Modifié par ArtGerhardt, 02 août 2012 - 04:55 .

[upinya slayin]

Blind2Society wrote...

Curzyfish wrote...

Are people really complaining about stomps? They should have been in gold / plat from the start.

No, they should have been removed from the game entirely from the start.

based on what? stomping makes players use gels and since JEPs are perminant there is no reason to not have 5 eveyr match. it makes the game more challenging if i have to use a gel cause i'm gonna get stomped

[Bolo Xia]

DarthVarner wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

Ramsutin wrote...

Good post OP, but it lacks some basic stuff:
-Bioware is aware of farmers, and therefore usually excludes FBW from their data collection
-I saw Typhoons everywhere before 1st nerf. The 1st nerf made sense, since when have LMGs had the same penetration as the most powerfull snipe rifle? After it I still saw many Typhoons. Haven't really played since so can't comment
- and Smash wasn't nerfed, they simply put it back to its original recharge speed
-minority plays on Gold/Plat, even less of them come here. The majority won't even notice the nerfs.

isn't it common sense that when new weapons come out they will be used way more then the old weapons for the fact its a new toy to play with? i wouldn't look at stats of new weapons untill they've been out for at least 3-4 weeks before collecting stats on usage.

We have a winner.

no way man... the only guns we should use are avengers and katana's.
if we use anything else we are some elitist D-bag only worried about our score and farming.

new DLC guns are only trophies that should never be used, except by those few that are not elitist D-bags that.... you know finally unlocked it a month after when the DLC came out. 

so when i get my typhoon unlocked (my manifest) i should be the only one able to use it, also when i unlock this puppy it will then need a buff but not before then.

sarcasm is fun:whistle:

[xtorma]

darkblade wrote...

I feel like I should tell the OP that the typhoon was only really nerfed once.

That first time the gun just had way too much penetration distance and that was probably unintended. They didnt weaken its damage to armor just how much material it penetrated, when a gun with no mods is shooting through pillars that needs to be fixed.

I don't see how a feature such as penetration can be unintended. It would almost certianly mean that they do not test or qa weapons, because ray charles could have seen that in a darkroom, with a blindfold on.

[Blind2Society]

Agree with you 100% OP. I have been saying it for a while myself now as well. All the changes they've made to try an curb farming has only served to make farming more appealing as playing normally is just becoming frustrating.

Honestly, out of all the buffs/nerfs, the one that pisses me off the most is the smash cooldown increase. The PA was my absolute favorite class for many reasons. The most important was he was fun to play due to how well everything he did flowed (the time between releasing lash and it actually contacting the enemy needed to be shortened though). Smash, lash, roll, run and heavy melee all flowed so well together in any order. Now, with the increased cooldown nothing flows at all and it also ruined the classes open-area viability.

Modifié par Blind2Society, 02 août 2012 - 04:59 .

[ElectroNeonPanda]

It's not so much that they're punishing farmers, moreso they're punishing optimal credit acquisition. It's in EA's interest to make credit gain glacial, but possible. Coupled with the blatantly broken - some would argue purposefully so - store system it's fairly clear they want to encourage people to buy credits by making the in-game acquisition of them as tediously slow as possible.

[DarthVarner]

Pacificsharp09 wrote...

If they do not want us farming why did they give us the demolisher?

Frankly I don't think Bioware realized it was fully possible to effectively double the pylon's utility with a power recharge rate in the range of about  +35% to +75% (ideally on the higher end).  In that range, if you stay in one place and spam the pylon as soon as it becomes available again, you get four grenades in quick succession every 12-ish seconds.

Of course, this highly encourages farming strategies that center around one location.  You don't have to be there the entire time, but every 10 or so seconds you need to return and set another one down to maximize the grenade influx.  

Of course this also increases the ammo rate, making your buddies happy.

[solomsr]

/signed.

[Bolo Xia]

xtorma wrote...

darkblade wrote...

I feel like I should tell the OP that the typhoon was only really nerfed once.

That first time the gun just had way too much penetration distance and that was probably unintended. They didnt weaken its damage to armor just how much material it penetrated, when a gun with no mods is shooting through pillars that needs to be fixed.

I don't see how a feature such as penetration can be unintended. It would almost certianly mean that they do not test or qa weapons, because ray charles could have seen that in a darkroom, with a blindfold on.

most of us definitly penetrate on purpose:lol:



fine print:
sorry for altering your post, but i could not pass up the joke. 

[DarthVarner]

Bolo Xia wrote...

xtorma wrote...

darkblade wrote...

I feel like I should tell the OP that the typhoon was only really nerfed once.

That first time the gun just had way too much penetration distance and that was probably unintended. They didnt weaken its damage to armor just how much material it penetrated, when a gun with no mods is shooting through pillars that needs to be fixed.

I don't see how a feature such as penetration can be unintended. It would almost certianly mean that they do not test or qa weapons, because ray charles could have seen that in a darkroom, with a blindfold on.

most of us definitly penetrate on purpose:lol:



fine print:
sorry for altering your post, but i could not pass up the joke. 

Bolo, you have a career ready and waiting in journalism.

[tfoltz]

Ramsutin wrote...

Good post OP, but it lacks some basic stuff:
-Bioware is aware of farmers, and therefore usually excludes FBW from their data collection
-I saw Typhoons everywhere before 1st nerf. The 1st nerf made sense, since when have LMGs had the same penetration as the most powerfull snipe rifle? After it I still saw many Typhoons. Haven't really played since so can't comment
- and Smash wasn't nerfed, they simply put it back to its original recharge speed
-minority plays on Gold/Plat, even less of them come here. The majority won't even notice the nerfs.

-They are clearly "balancing" to stop farming.
-New ultra-rare weapon. Why wouldn't someone use it?
-Smash was nerfed due to farming. Turning something back to what it was originally does not mean it is not nerfed.
-The majority may not notice, or they will notice and just play a different game.

OP is correct. Farming would be reduced significantly if they made more weapons decent instead of nerfing the only decent ones, and/or made the enemies less frustrating (i.e. invulnerability, stunlocks, turrets popping up behind you, more shields/amor, magnets). 

[COLZ7R]

Totally agree with the op. said it back at the good old tc nerff.
the amount of "we can only find farming matches!!" posts prove it. Remember 30% of gold matches were infs was the reason bioware nerffed it.

[MetalHeadDev]

+1. I fail to see how farming is harmful. If people want to farm so be it. They're playing fair within the guidelines of the game and gaining credits. They're being advanced in their knowledge of the game mechanics. It harms no one. For those who say it does, you're all idiots. If you think a co-op only game can harm other players you're just a fool.

[tetsutsuru]

+1 OP. And thank you.

[YuenglingDragon]

UnknownMercenary wrote...

YuenglingDragon wrote...

They should lower gold payouts and attach a credit bonus for choosing random like you get an XP bonus. Then you could farm Geth on White all you want but you'll only get maybe 45k credits. 60k credits for choosing one random element, 75k for picking two random elements.

Ta da. Farming fixed. Could have done this months ago and saved us from having stupid nonsensical balance changes.

I can't speak for everyone else, but I will never pick random enemy on Gold until the Geth are fixed.

That's the beauty.  If they make these changes, they can alter the Geth again because farming as we know it will be entirely eliminated.  People can still farm White against the Geth if they want but they'll get 60% of the credits they used to.  This is much less of a problem for their cash flow, which is the only reason to hate farming as they do.

[Hymmnos]

 +2 internets

[rooklyn619]

JaimasOfRaxis wrote...

LordDeathkeeper wrote...

 Couldn't have been said better. I'll never know the joy of using what was once the typhoon.

I'll try to describe it.

Long before I got any N7 classes, I was blessed - my first Spectre Pack contained a Typhoon. I immediately packed it on my Krogan Soldier,  and for a time, felt like a god. The Typhoon went with me everywhere, my first legitimately effective LMG that actually felt like one. It was a dream come true, like a viable version of the Revenant.

Do you know how you felt when you first got a Phaeston after so long using the Avenger? How it made your eyes water by how fun that felt? Or when you got a Cerberus Harrier, and finally, there was a rifle that actually felt like an assault rifle? The Typhoon was like that, only for Machine Guns.

Its loss will be deeply lamented by the Krogan community, and its loss mourned by many a Quarian Engineer, Human Soldier, and N7 Demolisher. It will be missed.

I haven't unlocked the Typhoon yet. Sir, your words literally put tears in my eyes.

[TrveOmegaSlayer]

Support

[HarbingerWithCheese]

+1 OP, agree completely.

[Catastrophy]

YuenglingDragon wrote...

They should lower gold payouts and attach a credit bonus for choosing random like you get an XP bonus. Then you could farm Geth on White all you want but you'll only get maybe 45k credits. 60k credits for choosing one random element, 75k for picking two random elements.

Ta da. Farming fixed. Could have done this months ago and saved us from having stupid nonsensical balance changes.

This might even not need a patch and could be done via the weekly update, no? I find this to be a very convincing proposal.

[Ramsutin]

tfoltz wrote...

-They are clearly "balancing" to stop farming.
-New ultra-rare weapon. Why wouldn't someone use it?
-Smash was nerfed due to farming. Turning something back to what it was originally does not mean it is not nerfed.
-The majority may not notice, or they will notice and just play a different game.

OP is correct. Farming would be reduced significantly if they made more weapons decent instead of nerfing the only decent ones, and/or made the enemies less frustrating (i.e. invulnerability, stunlocks, turrets popping up behind you, more shields/amor, magnets). 

You can't stop farming. Ever. If you were given decent weapons, then they would just use them to have sub 10 minute farms.
And as far as I am concerned, 0+1-1=0 so not nerfed.
And yes, Typhoon's nerf was a bit too premature. But I am certain that BW had some data to back it up. I'm not calling for nerfs, but they get paid to do this and have been doing it for some time so I trust their judgement. I play for fun so if they nerf something I play with significantly I just adapt. Because that is the only thing to od beside ragequitting.

[CitizenThom]

I agree (with the OP). The store to some degree encourages farming. The store combined with weapon nerfs, almost requires farming. Sure a really good player only needs an Avenger 1, Katana 1, Predator 1, and or a Shurkien 1 to beat platinum. But every enemy buff and player nerf leaves average players chasing after bigger guns to shoot... and the random number generator store means it takes a lot of credits to get the gun upgrade you're looking for. By then another set of enemy buffs and weapon nerfs have taken place, and you need to unlock another gun. More and more time gets spent on farming.

So basically...
1. I agree that in the end, the Player Nerfs/Enemy Buffs hurt non-farmers more than farmers.

2. Player Nerfs/ Enemy Buffs designed intended to discourage farming techniques tend to lead to more people spending time farming so that they can play the game under the new 'rules'. Efforts against farmers turn more non-farmers into farmers in the end.

Modifié par CitizenThom, 02 août 2012 - 05:51 .

[tfoltz]

Ramsutin wrote...

tfoltz wrote...

-They are clearly "balancing" to stop farming.
-New ultra-rare weapon. Why wouldn't someone use it?
-Smash was nerfed due to farming. Turning something back to what it was originally does not mean it is not nerfed.
-The majority may not notice, or they will notice and just play a different game.

OP is correct. Farming would be reduced significantly if they made more weapons decent instead of nerfing the only decent ones, and/or made the enemies less frustrating (i.e. invulnerability, stunlocks, turrets popping up behind you, more shields/amor, magnets). 

You can't stop farming. Ever. If you were given decent weapons, then they would just use them to have sub 10 minute farms.
And as far as I am concerned, 0+1-1=0 so not nerfed.
And yes, Typhoon's nerf was a bit too premature. But I am certain that BW had some data to back it up. I'm not calling for nerfs, but they get paid to do this and have been doing it for some time so I trust their judgement. I play for fun so if they nerf something I play with significantly I just adapt. Because that is the only thing to od beside ragequitting.

No one claimed they can stop farming. The point is that they are balancing to try to get rid of farming, which you agree cannot be done. This is negatively affecting regular gameplay.

So if you originally worked for $15 per hour, and they gave you a raise to $25 per hour, and then decided you deserved $15 again, it would be no big deal, right?  Clearly real world and video games are not identical, but to have something reduced is a nerf.

We all play for fun. Some changes make the game less fun, and more tedious. Wouldn't you like to use any weapon on platinum? I would. 

[DarthVarner]

dr_random wrote...

YuenglingDragon wrote...

They should lower gold payouts and attach a credit bonus for choosing random like you get an XP bonus. Then you could farm Geth on White all you want but you'll only get maybe 45k credits. 60k credits for choosing one random element, 75k for picking two random elements.

Ta da. Farming fixed. Could have done this months ago and saved us from having stupid nonsensical balance changes.

This might even not need a patch and could be done via the weekly update, no? I find this to be a very convincing proposal.

I really don't support this idea, mainly because in my opinion there are significant flaws in many of the available maps - to the point where I do not want to play a match on them.  Furthermore, if you want to be maximally effective these days, you have to specifically tailor your team to a given map.

Condor:  Yeah. Even with an elite team, this is slow as all get out. Constrained ammo. Might as well camp at the spawn point with a Demolisher.

Hydra:  Doable, but annoying as hell vs. Geth because the entire map is a mess of open sight lines.  The only cover available gets insta-flanked.  Some people like this map, but I don't enjoy playing on it.  WTF is with hack objectives in the low ground on the middle of the map?  That's cool.  Dagger has a couple annoying ones, but they weren't this bad.

Jade:  Horribly open.  Impossible to control spawns.  Can be enjoyable with a completely overpowering team mopping the floor with enemies, but vs. Geth I think not.

Rio:  Oh, Rio.  Half the railings on this map your toon will "cover" behind, but enemies' projectiles shoot right through them.  The only high ground (actually, nearly the entire map) has no effective cover, enemies can rocket-jump right in, and you are constantly flanked.  Teams appear to usually camp in the boxes, but how is that fun?  Hack objectives will ruin your day, and hopefully everyone is packing a scoped weapon.  This map took my "least favorite" title away from Condor, and that's saying something.  

London:  Really freaking open.  Geth are stupid here.  Decent ammo supply, but one particular central hack objective is outright insane - four people is insufficient to cover all possible advances, and over half of the cover does nothing since you've got the low ground.  


Note that none of these were included on release, and yeah - I've put a lot of effort into understanding these maps.  Still can't stand the wide-open "rocket/Primebolt/Nemesis/Phantomhand me bro!" designs of many of the new maps.  Ironically these all had the potential to be great for snipers, but then snipers got nerfed 6 feet below ground level.  If I know I might be playing one of these, my character, class, and loadout completely changes... and these maps I do not wish to play now make up nearly half of the random pool.

So no.  I don't support this idea.