317 réponses à ce sujet

[Ramsutin]

tfoltz wrote...
We all play for fun. Some changes make the game less fun, and more tedious. Wouldn't you like to use any weapon on platinum? I would. 

That would make Eagle pretty OP on broze don't you think? And I would love to have the option to reduce my salary just to troll our IRS.

[Dama733]

Lets face it people, the only reason that Bioware is nerfing the hell out of the game is the simple fact that those that farm are less likely to buy packs with real money.

And like Op said, the nerfing is never going to affect them.

But the rampant nerfing is hurting the rest of us... this game is Player Vs Enemy, not Player Vs Player, theres no need for this level of class/Weapon nerfing. it needs to stop Bioware, your hurting the entire community in an attempt to make life harder for a small percentace of players who do farm.

Modifié par Dama733, 02 août 2012 - 06:07 .

[effect of the mass]

All Bioware needs to do to stop farming is implement a dynamic rewards system. Have the credits vary up and down by certain percentages based on a worldwide galactic readiness rating. If everybody keeps playing FBWGG, then have Hackett lower the reward for that map and raise the reward for others.

It's really not that complicated.

[thisnameiscrap]

I agree with this entirely, even though I'm a farmer.

I do not have a lot of free time in my day. Between chores, errands, prior commitments etc etc I don't have a lot of time to play. Farming is the best way for me to increase play time. Farm, get credits, (hopefully) get something nice, use that nice thing to train and get better at non-farming. It's a nice cycle.

The way I see it, there should be NO credit reductions, but rather, a tiny increase to those that either play varied or random matches. That way the farmers can farm but the normal players will still get more credits.

[nicethugbert]

OMG PPL ARE FARMING IN VIDEO GAME MAKE IT STOP MAKE IT STOP ................

[CitizenThom]

Fwiw, you can control the spawns on Jade to a degree... I always start at the control room at the top of the stairs from the big ammo box. I've found that to be the most inconvenient spawn point. If I'm not back in time to prevent the spawn, those are the first enemies I clear. If you start there, with no one at the extraction area spawn, you'll get spawns at the extraction area and the rest tend to spawn in the rooms on the far side of the killzone.

Now, if someone is in those rooms on the far side of the killzone... they spawn just outside the big ammo box room, and that's probably the second most inconvenient spawn on the map.

[DarthVarner]

thisnameiscrap wrote...

I agree with this entirely, even though I'm a farmer.

I do not have a lot of free time in my day. Between chores, errands, prior commitments etc etc I don't have a lot of time to play. Farming is the best way for me to increase play time. Farm, get credits, (hopefully) get something nice, use that nice thing to train and get better at non-farming. It's a nice cycle.

The way I see it, there should be NO credit reductions, but rather, a tiny increase to those that either play varied or random matches. That way the farmers can farm but the normal players will still get more credits.

Check out my earlier post in this thread which talks about community and how there used to be a viable one for Gold, but isn't one at present for Gold+.  I think this link will work.

I'm also a busy guy.  I have lots of demands on my time, and maybe I have time for just one match.  If my friends aren't on, I would LIKE to be able to jump into a public match (probably Gold, I don't expect this from Platinum) and have reasonable expectation of success due to my skill level alone.

That was once possible, and I could reasonably expect not to waste my time.  It is no longer the case.

Thus now the community for random matches with random players has mostly dried up above Silver... and it isn't hard to figure out why.  But it isn't a good thing for ME3 MP.  I hope this gets realized by the good folks at BW before too much additional damage gets done.  

Take a look at how many Gold/Platinum games are public and/or private now, compared to say a month after launch when people had gotten decent gear.  I guarantee it's in the toilet.

Modifié par DarthVarner, 02 août 2012 - 06:17 .

[Lokiwithrope]

Tell me about it. If only the people made them more noticeable than the whiners then things would be different.

[puldalpha]

nicethugbert wrote...

OMG PPL ARE FARMING IN VIDEO GAME MAKE IT STOP MAKE IT STOP ................

+1 This so much.

How many games can you list that has a RNG type of aspect, whether its weapons/armor or other things. Almost every Player vs. Enemy game has some form of farming. It is human nature to do what is easiest and most efficient, trying to stop it is inevitable.

[DarthVarner]

CitizenThom wrote...

Fwiw, you can control the spawns on Jade to a degree... I always start at the control room at the top of the stairs from the big ammo box. I've found that to be the most inconvenient spawn point. If I'm not back in time to prevent the spawn, those are the first enemies I clear. If you start there, with no one at the extraction area spawn, you'll get spawns at the extraction area and the rest tend to spawn in the rooms on the far side of the killzone.

Now, if someone is in those rooms on the far side of the killzone... they spawn just outside the big ammo box room, and that's probably the second most inconvenient spawn on the map.

There are actually two spawns in the big control room - one on top of the ammo box everyone uses, and one in the back.  A third is down the stairs going away from the LZ.  I've done a bunch of experiments and one person can't block all 3, usually can only get 1.  I've had mobs spawn literally in front of my face due to that double-spawn in the control room area.

[CitizenThom]

thisnameiscrap wrote...

I agree with this entirely, even though I'm a farmer.

I do not have a lot of free time in my day. Between chores, errands, prior commitments etc etc I don't have a lot of time to play. Farming is the best way for me to increase play time. Farm, get credits, (hopefully) get something nice, use that nice thing to train and get better at non-farming. It's a nice cycle.

The way I see it, there should be NO credit reductions, but rather, a tiny increase to those that either play varied or random matches. That way the farmers can farm but the normal players will still get more credits.

I agree, credit increase for random enemy/random map would be a good way to discourage pure farming. People would be getting rewarded for overcoming a random map and random enemy. Sure, if people want to farm-farm, they still can. But if they can get 75% of gold credits on a silver match? Most people will choose to play the silver match rather than farm the gold... because they'll get the best of both worlds, the best gameplay experience and enough credits to buy enough packs to unlock the weapon or gear or whatever else you'd like to try the game with.

[z e r 0]

JaimasOfRaxis wrote...
* Smash was nerfed specifically due to players spamming it on Firebase Glacier for Platinum runs (source: Bioware Staff).

This is the nerf that baffled me.  They take a high-damage, spammy ability and take away its open-area viability by increasing the cooldown.

Now the best, and encouraged, way to use it is to sit behind a wall. 

Like maybe in Glacier. 

While farming.

Dumb change.

[CitizenThom]

DarthVarner wrote...

CitizenThom wrote...

Fwiw, you can control the spawns on Jade to a degree... I always start at the control room at the top of the stairs from the big ammo box. I've found that to be the most inconvenient spawn point. If I'm not back in time to prevent the spawn, those are the first enemies I clear. If you start there, with no one at the extraction area spawn, you'll get spawns at the extraction area and the rest tend to spawn in the rooms on the far side of the killzone.

Now, if someone is in those rooms on the far side of the killzone... they spawn just outside the big ammo box room, and that's probably the second most inconvenient spawn on the map.

There are actually two spawns in the big control room - one on top of the ammo box everyone uses, and one in the back.  A third is down the stairs going away from the LZ.  I've done a bunch of experiments and one person can't block all 3, usually can only get 1.  I've had mobs spawn literally in front of my face due to that double-spawn in the control room area.

Oh, solo yeah...

With four squadmembers, I'll get the top of the stairs, someone's at the bottom of the stairs, and someone else is on the sniping platform (the one that overlooks the killzone on the map, where you are flanked by the ladder and the area where enemies rocket up to you). That's usually enough to force the spawns to the other two locations.

[agent74021]

/signed

[DarthVarner]

CitizenThom wrote...

thisnameiscrap wrote...

I agree with this entirely, even though I'm a farmer.

I do not have a lot of free time in my day. Between chores, errands, prior commitments etc etc I don't have a lot of time to play. Farming is the best way for me to increase play time. Farm, get credits, (hopefully) get something nice, use that nice thing to train and get better at non-farming. It's a nice cycle.

The way I see it, there should be NO credit reductions, but rather, a tiny increase to those that either play varied or random matches. That way the farmers can farm but the normal players will still get more credits.

I agree, credit increase for random enemy/random map would be a good way to discourage pure farming. People would be getting rewarded for overcoming a random map and random enemy. Sure, if people want to farm-farm, they still can. But if they can get 75% of gold credits on a silver match? Most people will choose to play the silver match rather than farm the gold... because they'll get the best of both worlds, the best gameplay experience and enough credits to buy enough packs to unlock the weapon or gear or whatever else you'd like to try the game with.

I disagree, and stated why in my post at the end of page 4.  I think you read it.

What I see as a potentially viable solution would be modifying credit rewards for maps on a [weekly? daily?] basis, depending on which ones have seen the most action in the prior period, with multipliers to credit rewards applied in a range from say 0.5x to 1.35x (maybe even 1.5x; some of these maps are not much fun).  

Thus players retain the ability to choose, but know going in the modifier that would be applied.

I would be OK with random maps / enemies bypassing this system and having a static multipler above 1x - probably between 1.15 and 1.2x would be reasonable.  


(Edited to tame down some multipliers which were too large in the original)

Modifié par DarthVarner, 02 août 2012 - 06:34 .

[thisnameiscrap]

CitizenThom wrote...

thisnameiscrap wrote...

I agree with this entirely, even though I'm a farmer.

I do not have a lot of free time in my day. Between chores, errands, prior commitments etc etc I don't have a lot of time to play. Farming is the best way for me to increase play time. Farm, get credits, (hopefully) get something nice, use that nice thing to train and get better at non-farming. It's a nice cycle.

The way I see it, there should be NO credit reductions, but rather, a tiny increase to those that either play varied or random matches. That way the farmers can farm but the normal players will still get more credits.

I agree, credit increase for random enemy/random map would be a good way to discourage pure farming. People would be getting rewarded for overcoming a random map and random enemy. Sure, if people want to farm-farm, they still can. But if they can get 75% of gold credits on a silver match? Most people will choose to play the silver match rather than farm the gold... because they'll get the best of both worlds, the best gameplay experience and enough credits to buy enough packs to unlock the weapon or gear or whatever else you'd like to try the game with.

Agreed, and it'd help new players too, and it'd sure as hell give me more incentive to play in general. The way I see it with my time constraints, I have no reason NOT to farm.

[d15-149]

Completely agree with the the OP, well said!

I remember hearing an anecdotal story a long time ago that the NBA wanted to raise the height of the hoop because the taller players had an unfair advantage - completely missing that such a change would make it even more difficult for the average players.

Well anyway, that's what I see Bioware doing with all the nerfs and "balance" changes...just making the game harder for us regular players while only making it slightly more inconvenient for the farmers.

[BalisticCarnage]

I agree competely - great post!

[Vesorias]

That's an intimidating wall of text you've got there, but reading it is worth it. Well thought out and written. +1

[Tankcommander]

I agree OP.

Perfect example is the Geth. They stupidly buffed their health to combat farming, but instead made them awful on any game but a farming game.

[DarthVarner]

Tankcommander wrote...

I agree OP.

Perfect example is the Geth. They stupidly buffed their health to combat farming, but instead made them awful on any game but a farming game.

It wasn't just health.  Health buffs ironically didn't matter AT ALL to farmers, except for Primes, because everything else is grabbable.  

What did make the Geth stupid above and beyond health that was the change in wave composition - basically adding MOAR PRIMEZ all over the place and subbing shielded units in for Troopers.  At the time Primes still had a headshot hitbox (a big one) and a Valiant could take them out in two clips.  It was arguably necessary - then.

Now Primes don't have headshot bonuses, but of course the buffs have stayed.  

At ABSOLUTE MINIMUM the wave composition buff needs to be reverted.  I could live with higher health, but three concurrent boss enemies is unacceptable after removing the headshot hitbox.

Modifié par DarthVarner, 02 août 2012 - 06:51 .

[ChemicalGenocide]

Let's face it, most of the player base is biding their time till Borderlands 2, Halo 4, and Black Ops 2 comes out. With changes that ****** off the player base coming more frequently they will have to do something by November to keep people playing, otherwise this multiplayer will probably resemble a 'ghost town'.

[sliverofamoon]

JaimasOfRaxis wrote...

I appreciate that this is being done with the interest in trying to keep some level of control over rampant farming, but the simple fact is that - Krysae nerfs aside - the bulk of these hit the community infinitely harder than it did the actual Farmers. More to the point, these nerfs have not done anything to curb farming whatsoever. On top of this, we are now entering a metagame wherein balance fixes are being performed around the farmers, and not the actual playerbase, and that, to put it simply, is lunacy. Does anyone here honestly think that players who were farming Glacier with Smash are really that plussed that Smash got nerf-batted in response to their antics? No, they'll mutter a bit, and go looking for some other way to endlessly farm easy credits to max out their manifests.

The answer is abundantly clear: It's the players. A friend of mine (who happens to be amongst the highest-ranked N7 players in the world) once chimed in and said that this current cycle of basing fixes on weakening farming methodologies, no matter how much it nerfs and destroys, will never, ever, at any point in time, be successful. His reasoning is both logical and concise - not only will the playerbase continue to find methods that work to reliably gain easy credits, but there are literally over a dozen relatively obscure setups that are more than capable of reliably handling any difficulty or situation and which, due to their obscurity, are as likely to be nerfed as Commander Sheperd is to die of natural causes. More than this, team skill will always be a factor - players who can coordinatre and work well with others will always find ways to make it through, even if they have to fight naked and armed with the projectile weapon equivalent of nerf bats, and they will find a way to reliably extract credits doing so.

Focus on the players. Not the farmers. The farmers aren't the ones who are getting hurt by handling the metagame this way.

I've been saying this from the start

[CitizenThom]

DarthVarner wrote...

CitizenThom wrote...

thisnameiscrap wrote...

I agree with this entirely, even though I'm a farmer.

I do not have a lot of free time in my day. Between chores, errands, prior commitments etc etc I don't have a lot of time to play. Farming is the best way for me to increase play time. Farm, get credits, (hopefully) get something nice, use that nice thing to train and get better at non-farming. It's a nice cycle.

The way I see it, there should be NO credit reductions, but rather, a tiny increase to those that either play varied or random matches. That way the farmers can farm but the normal players will still get more credits.

I agree, credit increase for random enemy/random map would be a good way to discourage pure farming. People would be getting rewarded for overcoming a random map and random enemy. Sure, if people want to farm-farm, they still can. But if they can get 75% of gold credits on a silver match? Most people will choose to play the silver match rather than farm the gold... because they'll get the best of both worlds, the best gameplay experience and enough credits to buy enough packs to unlock the weapon or gear or whatever else you'd like to try the game with.

I disagree, and stated why in my post at the end of page 4.  I think you read it.

What I see as a potentially viable solution would be modifying credit rewards for maps on a [weekly? daily?] basis, depending on which ones have seen the most action in the prior period, with multipliers to credit rewards applied in a range from say 0.5x to 1.35x (maybe even 1.5x; some of these maps are not much fun).  

Thus players retain the ability to choose, but know going in the modifier that would be applied.

I would be OK with random maps / enemies bypassing this system and having a static multipler above 1x - probably between 1.15 and 1.2x would be reasonable.  

(Edited to tame down some multipliers which were too large in the original)

I don't like the idea of punishing people for choosing a specific map or a specific enemy, only because such choices aren't made soley based on farming considerations. For example, I might want to not deal with magnet hands and stunlocking Geth and instead opt for Atlases and Phantoms, and it has nothing to do with farming. I might not want to do the Condor Map or the Reactor Map or the London Map and it has nothing to do with farming.

The random/random rewards people who aren't pure farming without punishing people for choices they make that have nothing to do with farming. I don't think a non farmer should get half the credits just because they like a map that happens to also be very popular with farmers (for example Glacier).

[Dama733]

ChemicalGenocide wrote...

Let's face it, most of the player base is biding their time till Borderlands 2, Halo 4, and Black Ops 2 comes out. With changes that ****** off the player base coming more frequently they will have to do something by November to keep people playing, otherwise this multiplayer will probably resemble a 'ghost town'.

Agreed, the only thing Bioware is doing right now is giving their playerbase more incentive to jump games come autumn/winter release time, with the constant nerfing and enemy Buffs the majority of players are going to actively seek out a more enjoyable game, and lets face it the more a player enjoys a game the more they are willing to keep playing it, and Bioware are making the multiplayer less enjoyable for a lot of players.

Modifié par Dama733, 02 août 2012 - 07:31 .