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Art and what went wrong with ME3


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#1
sH0tgUn jUliA

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Wednesday nights are my movie nights with a friend of mine when we pick a movie or watch some TV series on DVD. The latter have been getting a bit thin lately, so we rented a movie on Zune, and finally saw "Machete". That was art. It was funny. It was totally over the top. Robert Rodriguez got me hooked with "El Mariachi". If you haven't seen "El Mariachi" see it. After this he hooked up with Tarantino. Rodriguez doesn't take himself seriously. This movie is part of a trilogy: Machete, Machete Kills, Machete Kills Again. Great soundtrack -- I have the soundtrack before I saw the movie. Soundtrack by Chingon. But what does this have to do with ME3? After a few shooters and a nights sleep, I woke up realizing something. The writers of ME3 took themselves too seriously, especially Walters.

ME2? No. That was definitely NOT what I would call a serious game. It's why it's my favorite of the series. That one can be played in such a ridiculous manner you can laugh your way through it. You can essentially play like Machete in a space ship. You can play the renegade with the heart of gold, or simply play the bad ass. The plot of the game is so ridiculous... well there really isn't any plot. It's funny in so many places. You can make Zaeed's mission serious and save the refinery workers, or a **** 'em mission. Kasumi's loyalty mission is totally ridiculous (and as femShep you can do the most ridiculous climb in the window in that stupid dress which no self-respecting woman would ever do -- it was the facepalm moment of the mission when I saw it) -- how many shot that priceless statue just for fun? The Suicide Mission? It was "The Dirty Dozen" made up of some of the worst misfits in the galaxy including Miranda (sorry Tabs, she is a misfit). 14  with the DLC. Give TIM the the Collector Base. Why not?

ME3? Seriously. I needed that kid out of my dreams. I needed a bottle of tequila in my desk, and some Mexican (weed) and Cuban (cigars) in my desk as well. Did someone complain about the alcohol in ME2? Or did Shepard now have to be all proper now being back in the Alliance? I would have preferred remaining a drunk. Now the game had its moments, like on Rannoch with the renegade interrupt after the reaper fight. It didn't have enough. There wasn't enough fun in the story. Not enough kicking ass and taking names. Your Galaxy Map said "you are holding steady and winning in key locations", and that was conventionally, but that was meaningless. Nothing meant anything. :o

The whole story was ridiculous. The reaper plotline was ridiculous. So how do you get out of a ridiculous plot line and end it? Actually I can see why Mac wanted out of this. I wouldn't want to write about the stupid reapers. He thought he had to do an Arnold Schwarzenegger ending to get out of it, and didn't want to, so he went Deus Ex. Hey Mac, next time just give in and go with the flow and get it over with. Be videogamey. Have fun. Laugh. Be a kid again.

He could have had some fun with it and made it totally over the top -- actually that would have involved the fleet coming in and seriously kicking some ass -- hey if you had > 6200 EMS they should have taken out ****load of reapers because your entire fleet was there, and it should have been a huge win on Earth. The reapers were spread out all over the galaxy. So Shepard gets to the Citadel pretty much without a scratch with his team, fights off a wave of reaper forces on the Citadel, takes out the trash, fires the completely undamaged Crucible killing all the reapers (no Starbrat, no damaged relays), gets picked up by a shuttle, lands on the beach, watches the sunrise, THE END. You earned it. End with some kick ass music, not overly banal sentimental piano music.

Of course if you had only 2000 EMS it won't end so nice (you get the piano music) and bye bye :(. Of course in Nov. 2012 the game would have to get patched to Total Military Assets instead of EMS because MP is going to be pretty much "in recession."

Alas I'm not sophisticated enough to appreciate Red Green and Blue, and the moral dilemmas and wastelands afterwards.

PS: you should have confronted TIM on Cronos Station, not on the Citadel.

#2
Conniving_Eagle

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I agree 100%, you have nice ideas.

+9,999 EMS.

#3
Vox Draco

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sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...
The whole story was ridiculous. The reaper plotline was ridiculous. So how do you get out of a ridiculous plot line and end it? Actually I can see why Mac wanted out of this. I wouldn't want to write about the stupid reapers. He thought he had to do an Arnold Schwarzenegger ending to get out of it, and didn't want to, so he went Deus Ex. Hey Mac, next time just give in and go with the flow and get it over with. Be videogamey. Have fun. Laugh. Be a kid again.

He could have had some fun with it and made it totally over the top -- actually that would have involved the fleet coming in and seriously kicking some ass -- hey if you had > 6200 EMS they should have taken out ****load of reapers because your entire fleet was there, and it should have been a huge win on Earth. The reapers were spread out all over the galaxy. So Shepard gets to the Citadel pretty much without a scratch with his team, fights off a wave of reaper forces on the Citadel, takes out the trash, fires the completely undamaged Crucible killing all the reapers (no Starbrat, no damaged relays), gets picked up by a shuttle, lands on the beach, watches the sunrise, THE END. You earned it. End with some kick ass music, not overly banal sentimental piano music.


Yeah, kick some Reaper-Butts! That would have been a satisfying way to end this threat! Do the impossible! Unite and stand as one againat those bastards! Be the hero of the galaxy!

I remember last September/November I got hooked up on Youtube to music from Two Steps from hell, that epic stuff used for trailers etc. And every now and then there were comments like" That was played when shepard was born!" or "that music is awesome! I see Shepard commanding a huge fleet wiping out the Reapers!"

I guess those feelings many, many fans had. Nobody would have thought ME3 could end like ... this now. We saw Shepard and ourselves do the impossible, unite the galaxy and triumph, sometimes better, sometimes worse, but triumph on our own! The current ME-Ending fails totally on conveying this feeling, at least for me, many others as well...

And yes, I am also not sophisticated enough to appreciate the deeper meaning and morale issues etc of the current endings. I am simple. All I wanted to see was Shepard shooting them, making them pay for liquifying people and burning entire planets. Obviously I am too stupid for Mass Effect's deep story-telling...

P.S. Machete was ... quite surreal at the end, wasn't it?

#4
Pitznik

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It's Reapers' fault. Reapers are boring. War is sad and boring. Peace is way more fun and interesting.

#5
sH0tgUn jUliA

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Vox Draco wrote...

P.S. Machete was ... quite surreal at the end, wasn't it?

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

#6
jla0644

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sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

He could have had some fun with it and made it totally over the top -- actually that would have involved the fleet coming in and seriously kicking some ass -- hey if you had > 6200 EMS they should have taken out ****load of reapers because your entire fleet was there, and it should have been a huge win on Earth. The reapers were spread out all over the galaxy. So Shepard gets to the Citadel pretty much without a scratch with his team, fights off a wave of reaper forces on the Citadel, takes out the trash, fires the completely undamaged Crucible killing all the reapers (no Starbrat, no damaged relays), gets picked up by a shuttle, lands on the beach, watches the sunrise, THE END. You earned it. End with some kick ass music, not overly banal sentimental piano music.


1000 times worse than the ending we got. No thank you.

I was worried this is what ME3 would be. And as disappointed as I was with the way it ended, I was at least thankful that Bioware didn't do what you just described. It would have been cheap, cliched, unimaginative, and boring.

#7
AresKeith

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sometimes less is more

#8
Conniving_Eagle

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There definitely wasn't enough Reaper-killing in a game about killing the Reapers.

Modifié par Conniving_Eagle, 02 août 2012 - 06:54 .


#9
Memnon

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Conniving_Eagle wrote...

There definitely wasn't enough Reaper-killing in a game about killing the Reapers.


This really sums it up - plus, it is easily recognizable when writers/directors/etc are trying way too hard to be artsy and profound. Prometheus is a good recent example ... I love Alien, think highly of Ridley Scott, but he went all Mac Walters with Prometheus. Stop trying so hard to be "deep and profound" and just make a great game ...

Modifié par Stornskar, 02 août 2012 - 06:58 .


#10
Conniving_Eagle

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Stornskar wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

There definitely wasn't enough Reaper-killing in a game about killing the Reapers.


This really sums it up - plus, it is easily recognizable when writers/directors/etc are trying way too hard to be artsy and profound. Prometheus is a good recent example ... I love Alien, think highly of Ridley Scott, but he went all Mac Walters with Prometheus. Stop trying so hard to be "deep and profound" and just make a great game ...


That movie was awful. I didn't even realize it was a prequel until the last 5 minutes.

#11
incinerator950

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Stornskar wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

There definitely wasn't enough Reaper-killing in a game about killing the Reapers.


This really sums it up - plus, it is easily recognizable when writers/directors/etc are trying way too hard to be artsy and profound. Prometheus is a good recent example ... I love Alien, think highly of Ridley Scott, but he went all Mac Walters with Prometheus. Stop trying so hard to be "deep and profound" and just make a great game ...


Except ME1 was a good game, not a great game.  ME has been about either being cliche or profound with other sci-fi material for a long time. 

#12
SpamBot2000

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Hmmm... Well, I actually kinda crave some earnestness in my entertainment, somber piano and all. So I can't really agree here. However, I certainly think the trend for grimming everything up to tha max has gone way past saturation point. If you have lived a bit, you certainly don't need your video games giving you dreary lectures about the supposed futility of all endeavor. I don't see why every game should be targeted to an audience desperately straining to rebel against the Disney Channel.

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 02 août 2012 - 07:07 .


#13
Memnon

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Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Stornskar wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

There definitely wasn't enough Reaper-killing in a game about killing the Reapers.


This really sums it up - plus, it is easily recognizable when writers/directors/etc are trying way too hard to be artsy and profound. Prometheus is a good recent example ... I love Alien, think highly of Ridley Scott, but he went all Mac Walters with Prometheus. Stop trying so hard to be "deep and profound" and just make a great game ...


That movie was awful. I didn't even realize it was a prequel until the last 5 minutes.


I've compared the ME trilogy to the Alien series ... I loved Alien and Aliens, they're two of my favorite sci-fi movies (ME1, ME2). Alien 3 was bad, and Alien 4 was good for about 70%, then hit WTF-zone and became stupid (ME3). Ridley Scott did the first Alien, so a lot was made of him returning to the soure material and expectations were high ... I didn't hate Prometheus, but I didn't like it. It was meh ...

#14
comrade gando

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this series started out so amazing, and it stayed amazing right up until the last 10 minutes where it just kinda had a digital seizure and... stopped. I love this game but every time I start playing it I just remember what awaits me at the end and when it comes right down to it, I'm going to be standing in that decision chamber, picking my favorite color, and my choices won't matter.

kinda like this sign

Image IPB

#15
Vox Draco

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jla0644 wrote...

It would have been cheap, cliched, unimaginative, and boring.


Oh damn, and how much I would pay for this ending to be included in ME3...so wonderfully cheap, and boring! give me all the unimaginativeness you have, Bioware! And cliches, cliches without end! Image IPB 

Still better than the current ending...but too videogamey for some it seems...Image IPB

#16
incinerator950

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Vox Draco wrote...

jla0644 wrote...

It would have been cheap, cliched, unimaginative, and boring.


Oh damn, and how much I would pay for this ending to be included in ME3...so wonderfully cheap, and boring! give me all the unimaginativeness you have, Bioware! And cliches, cliches without end! Image IPB 

Still better than the current ending...but too videogamey for some it seems...Image IPB


It sounds boring, like someone with a frustration issue wrote what they thought up in under a minute entirely basing it off a 2nd rate movie.  Kinda like Mac, but Mac is at least credible.

#17
Memnon

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incinerator950 wrote...


Except ME1 was a good game, not a great game.  ME has been about either being cliche or profound with other sci-fi material for a long time. 


Whatever your opinion of ME1 was, it's undeniable that it had a profound impact on many people - it established the franchise, and attracted an avid fanbase and spawned two sequels. If ME was just a good or average game in peoples' eyes, they wouldn't care this much about how the trilogy ended

Modifié par Stornskar, 02 août 2012 - 07:11 .


#18
AlanC9

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sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...
He could have had some fun with it and made it totally over the top -- actually that would have involved the fleet coming in and seriously kicking some ass -- hey if you had > 6200 EMS they should have taken out ****load of reapers because your entire fleet was there, and it should have been a huge win on Earth. The reapers were spread out all over the galaxy. So Shepard gets to the Citadel pretty much without a scratch with his team, fights off a wave of reaper forces on the Citadel, takes out the trash, fires the completely undamaged Crucible killing all the reapers (no Starbrat, no damaged relays), gets picked up by a shuttle, lands on the beach, watches the sunrise, THE END. You earned it. End with some kick ass music, not overly banal sentimental piano music.


Eww.

#19
Vox Draco

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incinerator950 wrote...
It sounds boring, like someone with a frustration issue wrote what they thought up in under a minute entirely basing it off a 2nd rate movie.  Kinda like Mac, but Mac is at least credible.


*shrugs* If I have to choose between an Arnie-ending and an 2001 ending for ME3, I know that Arnie is the better choice. It worked greatly in ME1, also in ME2, why not in ME3, on a bigger scale even?

Right now, ME3 is a second-rate 2001...and how boring that "masterpiece" is...*sigh*...

#20
comrade gando

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AlanC9 wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...
He could have had some fun with it and made it totally over the top -- actually that would have involved the fleet coming in and seriously kicking some ass -- hey if you had > 6200 EMS they should have taken out ****load of reapers because your entire fleet was there, and it should have been a huge win on Earth. The reapers were spread out all over the galaxy. So Shepard gets to the Citadel pretty much without a scratch with his team, fights off a wave of reaper forces on the Citadel, takes out the trash, fires the completely undamaged Crucible killing all the reapers (no Starbrat, no damaged relays), gets picked up by a shuttle, lands on the beach, watches the sunrise, THE END. You earned it. End with some kick ass music, not overly banal sentimental piano music.


Eww.


nah, that would actually resemble a decent ending to an awesome trilogy. and apparently: that's not what bioware was going for.

#21
BatmanPWNS

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All I saw was Bioware got way over their head over the amount of praise ME2 got by the majority of people and though they were above criticism all of a sudden.

#22
sH0tgUn jUliA

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jla0644 wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

He could have had some fun with it and made it totally over the top -- actually that would have involved the fleet coming in and seriously kicking some ass -- hey if you had > 6200 EMS they should have taken out ****load of reapers because your entire fleet was there, and it should have been a huge win on Earth. The reapers were spread out all over the galaxy. So Shepard gets to the Citadel pretty much without a scratch with his team, fights off a wave of reaper forces on the Citadel, takes out the trash, fires the completely undamaged Crucible killing all the reapers (no Starbrat, no damaged relays), gets picked up by a shuttle, lands on the beach, watches the sunrise, THE END. You earned it. End with some kick ass music, not overly banal sentimental piano music.


1000 times worse than the ending we got. No thank you.

I was worried this is what ME3 would be. And as disappointed as I was with the way it ended, I was at least thankful that Bioware didn't do what you just described. It would have been cheap, cliched, unimaginative, and boring.


But sometimes when you include the MacGuffin in the beginning like they did, the unimaginative makes sense. What Mac did with the ending didn't make any sense. You've got the some of the reapers, probably about 5% of them (see galactic map -- they're reaping the hell out of other worlds). You've got the entire galactic fleet pouring through the relay attacking the reapers over earth. The Galactic Fleet should have kicked some serious ass. They should have kicked the reapers right square in the daddy bags. Yes, it may have been "boring." Yes it may have been "cliched." Yes, it may have been "unimaginative."

But an ignored Normandy pickup in front of Harbinger? A laser blast? A mysterious wardrobe change? A mysterious weapon change to an infinite ammo weapon? Dead Kaidens and Ashleys everywhere? A beam in of The Illusive Man -- ever notice he just suddenly appears out of nowhere? An elevator to WTFland? An encounter with the Starbrat of your dreams? The moral dilemma from hell of pick your war crime just to end the game. :? That is better?  OMFG! What has the world come to?

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 02 août 2012 - 07:19 .


#23
Conniving_Eagle

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sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

jla0644 wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

He could have had some fun with it and made it totally over the top -- actually that would have involved the fleet coming in and seriously kicking some ass -- hey if you had > 6200 EMS they should have taken out ****load of reapers because your entire fleet was there, and it should have been a huge win on Earth. The reapers were spread out all over the galaxy. So Shepard gets to the Citadel pretty much without a scratch with his team, fights off a wave of reaper forces on the Citadel, takes out the trash, fires the completely undamaged Crucible killing all the reapers (no Starbrat, no damaged relays), gets picked up by a shuttle, lands on the beach, watches the sunrise, THE END. You earned it. End with some kick ass music, not overly banal sentimental piano music.


1000 times worse than the ending we got. No thank you.

I was worried this is what ME3 would be. And as disappointed as I was with the way it ended, I was at least thankful that Bioware didn't do what you just described. It would have been cheap, cliched, unimaginative, and boring.


But sometimes when you include the MacGuffin in the beginning like they did, the unimaginative makes sense. What Mac did with the ending didn't make any sense. You've got the some of the reapers, probably about 5% of them (see galactic map -- they're reaping the hell out of other worlds). You've got the entire galactic fleet pouring through the relay attacking the reapers over earth. The Galactic Fleet should have kicked some serious ass. They should have kicked the reapers right square in the daddy bags. Yes, it may have been "boring." Yes it may have been "cliched." Yes, it may have been "unimaginative."

But an ignored Normandy pickup in front of Harbinger? A laser blast? A mysterious wardrobe change? A mysterious weapon change to an infinite ammo weapon? Dead Kaidens and Ashleys everywhere? A beam in of The Illusive Man -- ever notice he just suddenly appears out of nowhere? An elevator to WTFland? An encounter with the Starbrat of your dreams? The moral dilemma from hell of pick your war crime just to end the game. :? That is better?  OMFG! What has the world come to?


Reaper forces are stretched out thin, but the majority are in Sol. However, the Reapers have never fought a galactic fleet before. But Bioware wanted to create a memorable ending. And after all, "You are remembered for the rules you break. Not the rules you follow." The ending was memorable, all right.

#24
sH0tgUn jUliA

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Yes they did make a memorable ending. Kind of reminds me of that bumper sticker: 9-11 Never Forget.

#25
Taboo

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Art should inspire discussion regardless of how it ends.

If it inspires rage you've done something WRONG.