185 réponses à ce sujet

[Rokayt]

jaydubs67 wrote...

You can't fool the data mining.  Bioware will be able to see if X weapon/class gets used far more than it should.  They can also figure out things like the likelihood of people winning the game when they are using X weapon/class vs Y weapon/class.  

At the end of the day, if weapon/class X really is balanced, than no amount of thread posting will get it nerfed.  And if weapon/class X really is overpowered, no amount of lamenting and tearing of clothes will stop it from getting nerfed.  

Its less overpowered and underpowered from my understanding, and more things that are overused that get nerfed.

I mean, think of the sheer number of overpwered tricks that have survived since day one, but have never been brought up or nerfed because they have never been popular, and will likely never be popular.

Bioware may read and consider our ideas, but they are not going to listen to a nerf thread without finding a statistical backing to say "These guys are right."

They might use a nerf suggested by the community, but why? Because we have a very good chance of being in touch with why something is being overused, or overpowered, being the ones who overuse and abuse it.

We may have a great deal of controll over how something gets nerfed, but I seriously doubt we have any control of when and what gets nerfed.

Just sayin.

Modifié par Rokayt, 02 août 2012 - 07:55 .

[LiarasShield]

Rokayt wrote...

jaydubs67 wrote...

You can't fool the data mining.  Bioware will be able to see if X weapon/class gets used far more than it should.  They can also figure out things like the likelihood of people winning the game when they are using X weapon/class vs Y weapon/class.  

At the end of the day, if weapon/class X really is balanced, than no amount of thread posting will get it nerfed.  And if weapon/class X really is overpowered, no amount of lamenting and tearing of clothes will stop it from getting nerfed.  

Its less overpowered and underpowered from my understanding, and more things that are overused that get nerfed.

I mean, think of the sheer number of overpwered tricks that have survived since day one, but have never been brought up or nerfed because they have never been popular, and will likely never be popular.

Yeah nerfing stuff due to popularity isn't a good way to go it should really be overpowered for that to really happen but I hope bioware reads what consumables or what gear most players use for the weapons that go into consideration for being overpowered.

[AresKeith]

LiarasShield wrote...

Rokayt wrote...

jaydubs67 wrote...

You can't fool the data mining.  Bioware will be able to see if X weapon/class gets used far more than it should.  They can also figure out things like the likelihood of people winning the game when they are using X weapon/class vs Y weapon/class.  

At the end of the day, if weapon/class X really is balanced, than no amount of thread posting will get it nerfed.  And if weapon/class X really is overpowered, no amount of lamenting and tearing of clothes will stop it from getting nerfed.  

Its less overpowered and underpowered from my understanding, and more things that are overused that get nerfed.

I mean, think of the sheer number of overpwered tricks that have survived since day one, but have never been brought up or nerfed because they have never been popular, and will likely never be popular.

Yeah nerfing stuff due to popularity isn't a good way to go it should really be overpowered for that to really happen but I hope bioware reads what consumables or what gear most players use for the weapons that go into consideration for being overpowered.

"this thing is overpowered" have you looked at what mods, gears, and bonuses your using lol

[Mike 9987]

I'll take the fact that you never once answered any of my counter arguments as you purely trying to troll me, and i have reported this accordingly.

Modifié par Mike 9987, 02 août 2012 - 07:57 .

[Rokayt]

LiarasShield wrote...

Rokayt wrote...

jaydubs67 wrote...

You can't fool the data mining.  Bioware will be able to see if X weapon/class gets used far more than it should.  They can also figure out things like the likelihood of people winning the game when they are using X weapon/class vs Y weapon/class.  

At the end of the day, if weapon/class X really is balanced, than no amount of thread posting will get it nerfed.  And if weapon/class X really is overpowered, no amount of lamenting and tearing of clothes will stop it from getting nerfed.  

Its less overpowered and underpowered from my understanding, and more things that are overused that get nerfed.

I mean, think of the sheer number of overpwered tricks that have survived since day one, but have never been brought up or nerfed because they have never been popular, and will likely never be popular.

Yeah nerfing stuff due to popularity isn't a good way to go it should really be overpowered for that to really happen but I hope bioware reads what consumables or what gear most players use for the weapons that go into consideration for being overpowered.

If someone could break the game using gear or consummables, would it be worth adressing?

I do think so.

I think they look into the data, and try to figure out the group that overuses the item the most, then they look into why they do this.

Then they try to nerf the item in a way that discourages that group the most, while hurting other users of the item as little as they possibly can (Which isn't always possible, unfortunately. However, enemy buffs cause much more collatteral damge then a single gun or power getting nerfed.)

[jaydubs67]

LiarasShield wrote...

jaydubs67 wrote...

You can't fool the data mining.  Bioware will be able to see if X weapon/class gets used far more than it should.  They can also figure out things like the likelihood of people winning the game when they are using X weapon/class vs Y weapon/class.  

At the end of the day, if weapon/class X really is balanced, then no amount of thread posting will get it nerfed.  And if weapon/class X really is overpowered, no amount of lamenting and tearing of clothes will stop it from getting nerfed.  

I'd like to believe that but bioware actually does pay attention to the threads or does take the community into account the community could be dead wrong or even do stuff like I mentioned in my first post and bioware still may consider it.

They take it into account, in that the community brings problems to their attention.  It's probably something along the lines of "Oh hey look, lots of threads about X.  Let's conduct an internal analysis about X."  Then "Well, the data does support their position, we'll do something about it."  Or alternatively "Well, the data pretty much contradicts their position/we found a completely different explanation for the phenomenon.  We'll ignore this at least for now."  

I'm pretty sure they don't just tally up posts in threads for and against to decide what to do.  After all, they've specifically stated that they review their collected data and do their own playtesting.  And I would also point out the typhoon and smash stuff must have been internally generated, since no one was really talking about it here on BSN.  

[AresKeith]

Mike 9987 wrote...

I'll take the fact that you never once answered any of my counter arguments as you purely trying to troll me, and i have reported this accordingly.

ok Mr. Butthurt

[Omega2079]

Don't forget to make sure the other three players are mediocre and take a screenshot of your massive e-peen score, from which they must look up to. After posting it, insist your topping the scoreboard has absolutely nothing to do with skill and it's all because your character/weapon is op.

Modifié par Omega2079, 02 août 2012 - 08:05 .

[bob2.0]

AresKeith wrote...

Mike 9987 wrote...

I'll take the fact that you never once answered any of my counter arguments as you purely trying to troll me, and i have reported this accordingly.

ok Mr. Butthurt

I lol'd

[jaydubs67]

Rokayt wrote...

Its less overpowered and underpowered from my understanding, and more things that are overused that get nerfed.

I mean, think of the sheer number of overpwered tricks that have survived since day one, but have never been brought up or nerfed because they have never been popular, and will likely never be popular.

Bioware may read and consider our ideas, but they are not going to listen to a nerf thread without finding a statistical backing to say "These guys are right."

Well, I think they do a more complex analysis than just "what's popular."  In the infiltrator analysis for example, they compared the class's play rate on gold vs bronze/silver to see whether it was played more for being fun or for being more effective than the other classes.  

To give another example, one of the early statistical releases showed that soldier was the most played class.  Despite that, all of the soldiers (except that ballistic blades cone bug) have received continuous buffs since the beginning.  This suggests there is a little more to it than "what gets played most."  I'm guessing they look at relative completion rates as well for different classes.  

[Mandalore313]

You forgot step three :

Make a video where your teammates deliberately shoot as little as possible, keep killing stuff until the last second on objective waves so that you can have a huge xp difference at the end of the match while yelling at how insane the weapon is.

[Boopitty]

jaydubs67 wrote...

You can't fool the data mining.  Bioware will be able to see if X weapon/class gets used far more than it should.  They can also figure out things like the likelihood of people winning the game when they are using X weapon/class vs Y weapon/class.  

At the end of the day, if weapon/class X really is balanced, then no amount of thread posting will get it nerfed.  And if weapon/class X really is overpowered, no amount of lamenting and tearing of clothes will stop it from getting nerfed.  

Well, I highly doubt their data showed tons of people using the Typhoon, seeing as it is an ultra-rare that only recently got released. Their only indicators that it was too powerful were the people who posted themselves pulling off incredible feats with the weapon. And, like the OP is saying, those people show an unrealistic presentation of what the weapon can do, as very few people have level 4 consumables to burn on every match, along with maxed out gear. 

[robarcool]

AresKeith wrote...

Mike 9987 wrote...

I'll take the fact that you never once answered any of my counter arguments as you purely trying to troll me, and i have reported this accordingly.

ok Mr. Butthurt

[Rokayt]

jaydubs67 wrote...

Rokayt wrote...

Its less overpowered and underpowered from my understanding, and more things that are overused that get nerfed.

I mean, think of the sheer number of overpwered tricks that have survived since day one, but have never been brought up or nerfed because they have never been popular, and will likely never be popular.

Bioware may read and consider our ideas, but they are not going to listen to a nerf thread without finding a statistical backing to say "These guys are right."

Well, I think they do a more complex analysis than just "what's popular."  In the infiltrator analysis for example, they compared the class's play rate on gold vs bronze/silver to see whether it was played more for being fun or for being more effective than the other classes.  

To give another example, one of the early statistical releases showed that soldier was the most played class.  Despite that, all of the soldiers (except that ballistic blades cone bug) have received continuous buffs since the beginning.  This suggests there is a little more to it than "what gets played most."  I'm guessing they look at relative completion rates as well for different classes.  

The balance changes are catered to the higher difficulty crouds, it seems.

If people are using something almost exclusively on a high difficulty? Odds are, it is far more powerful then the competition.

If 87% of people who own this gun and have used it, use it 100% of the time? Theres a very good chance that people are using the gun because they see no stronger options. IF they simply enjoyed using the gun, there would be some variety in their style of play.

I like the GI with the Indra, I also like SI's with the Raptor, and I like the Fury... With a build where the only thing that matters is what level of adrenalin moduel I have equipped.

I use all three builds in equal portions, I do equally well with each build in most cases, and I do switch things up occasionally. I do frequently rock the starting, human enginier to just as much effectiveness. The Drell Revenant-Traitor is a joke build I use on silver, but I do use it nonetheless.

Thus, my playing habits are a high indicator that the things I use are sustainable playing habits (And thus, I still enjoy the game as much as I did on day one,) and because of this, my play style is not nerf worthy.

It is really that simple, if you ask me. :innocent:

[Cheng Chao An]

The Eagle since the last game balance made it OP, I demand it to be nerfed.

[Mike 9987]

So where did liarashield go?

[Rokayt]

Mike 9987 wrote...

So where did liarashield go?

They generally argue every page of their threads. It is a little unnerving that they abandoned one...

[Ziegrif]

LiarasShield wrote...

First you go to the multiplayer screen you pick your favorite shotgun,pistol,sniper rifle or assault rifle.

Then you slap some level 5 max shotgun,assault rifle,sniper rifle or pistol gear for the particular weapon that you're using then. Then you pick out level 3 or 4 consumable for that particular weapon then you slap some level 3 or 4 armour penetration ammo or warp ammo then

You Pick a damage or accuracy enhancing character to buff your already super buffed weapon now any decent weapon that you have picked now has become super charged from your gear and consumable plus the high accuracy or damage enhancement from your particular character.

Now you pull out your camera during a gold or platnium match you take out a atlas or a banshee or whatever high boss mob you can think of then you go to the bioware multiplayer forum make a thread about that particular weapon annoy enough people and they will keep comment on your thread long enough to maybe make bioware check out the thread and decide on the next Rebalancing.

That does sound a lot of what I've been doing.
Well huh...
I think I did admit in my thread that I wasn't going to limit myself and tried to max out my damage from every little peashooter the game has.
Neither was I trying to annoy people by doing so... well not intentionally.
Whenever I found a bad weapon combo from the forums I did not mention from who I got it from.
Neither did I see the thread your way either and did say i wasn't advocating a nerf.
Just wanted to show that it is indeed possible for a Krogan to snipe etc etc.

... I feel kinda conflicted if I should continue posting results I get now.
I'm not trying to fake anything. Or call weapons overpowered either, even give suggestions on how to make them better.
Many weapons I've pumped with ammo 3-4 and amp 3s even still seem to need more DPS like the Incisor for example...
So am I advocating buffs by doctoring or something?

I feel so confused now.

[Mike 9987]

Rokayt wrote...

Mike 9987 wrote...

So where did liarashield go?

They generally argue every page of their threads. It is a little unnerving that they abandoned one...

Probabably ran away scared when i reported it because he knows he already had a temp ban and will now get another one. 

[LeonLionHart]

BioWare has mentioned before that the preferred method in gathering data (concerning weapon re-balancing) is not through these forums. This is really just a place to express opinions; we are far from a majority concerning weapon rebalancing.

[Rokayt]

Mike 9987 wrote...

Rokayt wrote...

Mike 9987 wrote...

So where did liarashield go?

They generally argue every page of their threads. It is a little unnerving that they abandoned one...

Probabably ran away scared when i reported it because he knows he already had a temp ban and will now get another one. 

I feel the point of  this thread was valid. It would be locked if it wasn't.

Perhaps shield just doesn't find it worth argueing anymore?

[AresKeith]

or she just went offline for a break

[TheExile1]

Mike 9987 wrote...

Rokayt wrote...

Mike 9987 wrote...

So where did liarashield go?

They generally argue every page of their threads. It is a little unnerving that they abandoned one...

Probabably ran away scared when i reported it because he knows he already had a temp ban and will now get another one. 

Yes since its not entirely possible she had something to do and couldn't continue the conversation.

I reported you for harrassment.

Modifié par TheExile1, 02 août 2012 - 08:37 .

[Ziegrif]

LeonLionHart wrote...

BioWare has mentioned before that the preferred method in gathering data (concerning weapon re-balancing) is not through these forums. This is really just a place to express opinions; we are far from a majority concerning weapon rebalancing.

I shall parrot this.
Sounds about right and this seems to be kinda true. They should have access to what people use on the battle field and data anyway.
So SQUAWK!

[Ashen One]

What is this? A post from LiarasShield that actually makes sense? On my internet?