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[paxxton]

TJBartlemus wrote...

paxxton wrote...
It could go like this. The Reapers retreat into dark space for now. Shepard lives after each of the endings but his psyche is warped after Control/Synthesis. The new protagonist doesn't know that. If Shepard is indoctrinated, he acts suspiciously but for sometime he's cautious not to reveal his true allegiance. Then after some time he starts to  contradict himself. Like recalling previous events not as they happened (save import). He starts to make mistakes. Finally he is revealed to be indoctrinated and tries to signal the Reapers. If he succeeds the Reapers return to finish the harvest.

I like that idea except the part where they would go back to dark space. Why leave when they were clearly winning? It would make sense for them to retreat and gather up a counter attack and Shepard released important plans to them.

It would be to hide the fact that the Crucible was never really used. The Reapers would just pretend to have left for good. That way no one would suspect Shepard of being on their side. Then their return would catch the Galaxy off guard.

Basically, such a devious plan. Why would they want to do that? Because they are patient and can wait as long as they want for the right moment. Btw, only the Catalyst says that Organics are outnumbered. Maybe it's not true.

Modifié par paxxton, 05 août 2012 - 12:13 .

[TJBartlemus]

@ Paxxton - How would their return catch the galaxy off guard? If anything they would always be on guard and all it does is give organics a chance to regroup, add to their numbers and build new weapons/ships. The Reapers can only do this by harvesting organics. Strategically to the Reapers attack is the only option.

[paxxton]

TJBartlemus wrote...

@ Paxxton - How would their return catch the galaxy off guard? If anything they would always be on guard and all it does is give organics a chance to regroup, add to their numbers and build new weapons/ships. The Reapers can only do this by harvesting organics. Strategically to the Reapers attack is the only option.

Quite right. Maybe if the Crucible is an indoctrination device, it would make Organics think that they've defeated the Reapers.

Modifié par paxxton, 05 août 2012 - 12:48 .

[TJBartlemus]

paxxton wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

@ Paxxton - How would their return catch the galaxy off guard? If anything they would always be on guard and all it does is give organics a chance to regroup, add to their numbers and build new weapons/ships. The Reapers can only do this by harvesting organics. Strategically to the Reapers attack is the only option.

Quite right. Maybe if the Crucible is an indoctrination device, it would make Organics think that they've defeated the Reapers.

Crucible? The organics made the Crucible. I think you are thinking about the Citadel. 

[RenegonSQ]

I mean, this "theory" shouldn't have it's own name. It should just be added onto the IT as more evidence/speculation(depending on if your and IT'er or not. I for one, am an IT'er)

[TJBartlemus]

RenegonSQ wrote...

I mean, this "theory" shouldn't have it's own name. It should just be added onto the IT as more evidence/speculation(depending on if your and IT'er or not. I for one, am an IT'er)

How much of it did you read? If you just read the first part I could understand why you would say that. The first part was originally made to support the IT.

[paxxton]

TJBartlemus wrote...

paxxton wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

@ Paxxton - How would their return catch the galaxy off guard? If anything they would always be on guard and all it does is give organics a chance to regroup, add to their numbers and build new weapons/ships. The Reapers can only do this by harvesting organics. Strategically to the Reapers attack is the only option.

Quite right. Maybe if the Crucible is an indoctrination device, it would make Organics think that they've defeated the Reapers.

Crucible? The organics made the Crucible. I think you are thinking about the Citadel. 

I mean a combination of the Crucible, the Citadel and the Relay Network would be used to indoctrinated the whole Galaxy to think that way. Remember that Organics don't even know what the Crucible is or does.

Modifié par paxxton, 05 août 2012 - 01:24 .

[TJBartlemus]

paxxton wrote...

I mean a combination of the Crucible, the Citadel and the Relay Network would be used to indoctrinated the whole Galaxy to think that way. Remember that Organics don't even know what the Crucible is or does.

Well I think the Relay network is the only exception in the rule that Reaper tech always indoctrinates. Organics have had scientists on the relays for years and not one has been reported to be indoctrinated. As far as I know... 

[paxxton]

TJBartlemus wrote...

paxxton wrote...

I mean a combination of the Crucible, the Citadel and the Relay Network would be used to indoctrinated the whole Galaxy to think that way. Remember that Organics don't even know what the Crucible is or does.

Well I think the Relay network is the only exception in the rule that Reaper tech always indoctrinates. Organics have had scientists on the relays for years and not one has been reported to be indoctrinated. As far as I know... 

The Crucible would send out the indoc signal throughout the Galaxy. Or at least power the Citadel to do that.
 
And how do you know that the Relays did not indoctrinate people to want to find them (or something unspecified that would allow interstellar journeys, the need to do that), use them and inhabit the Citadel. Plausible.

Modifié par paxxton, 05 août 2012 - 01:54 .

[TJBartlemus]

So what is the opinion on the Arrival section of PART 3: Evidence? Can anyone disprove it? For that fact...can anyone disprove anything I have posted yet?

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Only the indoctrinated will deny indoctrination.

[TJBartlemus]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Only the indoctrinated will deny indoctrination.

True. 

[WarmechaM2]

Whats your thoughts on them keeping the breath scene in during the ec?

Because the only way to get the breath scene as we all know is to pick destroy whilst having high miltary.
(and as the catalyst said the destroy option would kill sheaprd since he's part sythetic)

In the cut scene of the citadel firing there's 2 explosions, both of witch Shepard is at the epicentre of.
The initial explosion of the tube itself which Shepard is directly in front of and possible within a couple meters of, Then the second when the citadel fires to the first mass effect relay when the centre explodes (which is were Shepard was)
Yet it shows him to be alive and under some rocks and girders which look nothing like where the choices took place.

And more interestingly there is a beam shot from the Viper Nebula (where arrival took place) which was apparently destroyed, not only should this not have been in it full stop but it's also where the first beam was as well.

Modifié par WarmechaM2, 05 août 2012 - 02:59 .

[TJBartlemus]

WarmechaM2 wrote...

Whats your thoughts on them keeping the breath scene in during the ec?

Because the only way to get the breath scene as we all know is to pick destroy whilst having high miltary.
(and as the catalyst said the destroy option would kill sheaprd since he's part sythetic)

In the cut scene of the citadel firing there's 2 explosions, both of witch Shepard is at the epicentre of.
The initial explosion of the tube itself which Shepard is directly in front of and possible within a couple meters of, Then the second when the citadel fires to the first mass effect relay when the centre explodes (which is were Shepard was)
Yet it shows him to be alive and under some rocks and girders which look nothing like where the choices took place.

And more interestingly there is a beam shot from the Viper Nebula (where arrival took place) which was apparently destroyed, not only should this not have been in it full stop but it's also where the first beam was as well.

Well, WNT describes that not everything is entirely happening and that the Reapers are affecting Sheps perceptions. It's entirely possible that Shep never went to the Citadel. At the moment I really don't have a logical explaination for that. Nor does any other person so far. I guess we will have to wait till BioWare explains it I guess. 

The origin of the choice wave evidence I feel was probably artistic choice, pure error or on purpose for proof that some thing was not right / IT. 

Modifié par TJBartlemus, 05 août 2012 - 03:19 .

[WarmechaM2]

TJBartlemus wrote...

WarmechaM2 wrote...

Whats your thoughts on them keeping the breath scene in during the ec?

Because the only way to get the breath scene as we all know is to pick destroy whilst having high miltary.
(and as the catalyst said the destroy option would kill sheaprd since he's part sythetic)

In the cut scene of the citadel firing there's 2 explosions, both of witch Shepard is at the epicentre of.
The initial explosion of the tube itself which Shepard is directly in front of and possible within a couple meters of, Then the second when the citadel fires to the first mass effect relay when the centre explodes (which is were Shepard was)
Yet it shows him to be alive and under some rocks and girders which look nothing like where the choices took place.

And more interestingly there is a beam shot from the Viper Nebula (where arrival took place) which was apparently destroyed, not only should this not have been in it full stop but it's also where the first beam was as well.

Well, WNT describes that not everything is entirely happening and that the Reapers are affecting Sheps perceptions. It's entirely possible that Shep never went to the Citadel. At the moment I really don't have a logical explaination for that. Nor does any other person so far. I guess we will have to wait till BioWare explains it I guess. 

The origin of the choice wave evidence I feel was probably artistic choice, pure error or on purpose for proof that some thing was not right / IT. 

Thank you was wondering what your thoughts were
Just something that has confused me the most, shepard is expected to live through 2 explosion's whilst at the epicentre lol

[cdtrk65]

Nice theory...

Everything I have read about Narcolepsy's waking dreams left the dreamer in a sleep paralysis (which is why alot of people dream of being raped or something similar).

[TJBartlemus]

WarmechaM2 wrote...

Thank you was wondering what your thoughts were
Just something that has confused me the most, shepard is expected to live through 2 explosion's whilst at the epicentre lol

No problem. Sorry I couldn't give a better answer though...  I think someone actually slowed down the explosion to see that Shepard was blown back (like launched back) from the first explosion. The second though...not so sure that he would survive that. 

[WarmechaM2]

TJBartlemus wrote...

WarmechaM2 wrote...

Thank you was wondering what your thoughts were
Just something that has confused me the most, shepard is expected to live through 2 explosion's whilst at the epicentre lol

No problem. Sorry I couldn't give a better answer though...  I think someone actually slowed down the explosion to see that Shepard was blown back (like launched back) from the first explosion. The second though...not so sure that he would survive that. 

ClevernoobNetwork have 2 hour long documentrys on the indoc theory, it's got some really intresting stuff in it

And no worrys man ^^ 

[TJBartlemus]

cdtrk65 wrote...

Nice theory...

Everything I have read about Narcolepsy's waking dreams left the dreamer in a sleep paralysis (which is why alot of people dream of being raped or something similar).

Well I did say "something similar to narcolepsy" to be fair. Meaning that it doesn't include the paralysed part of the idea. 

[jasonh10]

How do you view the different EMS endings availablility, as far as destroy only being available at first, but the more assets you accumulate, then control and synthesis become available? I'm not sure how IT addresses this, either. I've come to think that if you have a higher EMS, they're not doing as well and want Shep in a prominent role, such as an Illusive Man type disruptive position in control, or Saren-like ambassadorial position in synthesis, to get him on their side. If Shep picks destroy, he's rejecting them so they just kill him, or at least try to. Obviously if your EMS is high enough, they fail.

[Massa FX]

Edited

Interesting read. I speculated that the ending was a nightmare bought on by Shepard being hit by Harbingers beam. Shepard is critically injured, including  traumatic brain injury. While unconscious the Reapers are influencing her. She never made it to the beam, but is lying unconscious in rubble. The choices given by the catalyst is Shepards way of fighting indoctrination.

Speculation
All choices except destroy represent Shepard succumbing to indoctrination and eventual Shepard
death --> Reaper victory.

Only under destroy does Shepard resist and may survive.

Endings
The endings will not change. Sure. But if they already developed an IT type end and are sitting on it for later release then everything BW said is true. And everything they haven't admitted or denied is very interesting. They are keeping their cards close and the gag on employees is tight.

Arrival
Arrival DLC contains data logs from scientists in process of indoctrination. Those scientists were having dreams/nightmares just like Shepard, sans the young boy. Shepard's will is strong, but like everyone else, sleep/unconsciousness weakens her.

More Speculation
In my opinion, Shepard is still on Earth bleeding out. Help will come hopefully in time. (Coates?)

Edit 2

The EC ending was released very quickly. Too quickly. Almost as if they aleady had most of it completed (at least most of the assets were made). Nearly 2 gigs of new content doesn't come out of production that fast.

If BW has planned all of this out, they've seriously punk'd us. They'll deserve an award from Ashton Kutcher.

Modifié par Massa FX, 05 août 2012 - 03:35 .

[estebanus]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Only the indoctrinated will deny indoctrination.

So are you indoctrinated?

[TJBartlemus]

estebanus wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Only the indoctrinated will deny indoctrination.

So are you indoctrinated?

I hope I'm not.  But I really think that you might be estebanus. 

[Alienboy411676]

TJBartlemus wrote...

paxxton wrote...

JBPBRC wrote...

Or what if Shepard has been in a coma since the beacon hit him in ME1, and the massive changes to the universe are a result of his sanity slipping away? Thermal clips for instance. Starkid, the Crucible, etc. Implications...unpleasant.

If he was in a coma, he couldn't influence the real Galaxy. Only the one in his dream. 

It would also mean that the 3 games in the series didn't happen. The potential backlash if that was true would make the anger for the ending now seem childish. The difference in anger would be like comparing a granade to a nuke. Yeah, I don't think so. 

They didn't happen.  It's a game.  It's not real.  So why would it matter if they came out and said Sheperd was in a coma since ME1?  It's not like it means your gameplay wasn't real.  You still got your gameplay out of the game, which is the point of a game.  All it would mean is that a story that is already fiction is a fiction within a fiction.  Meh.

[TJBartlemus]

Alienboy411676 wrote...
They didn't happen.  It's a game.  It's not real.  So why would it matter if they came out and said Sheperd was in a coma since ME1?  It's not like it means your gameplay wasn't real.  You still got your gameplay out of the game, which is the point of a game.  All it would mean is that a story that is already fiction is a fiction within a fiction.  Meh.

Of course I know it's a game. If they said he was in a coma that would mean all that we have done in the story so far wouldn't have occured. Meaning that Sovereign was never killed, the collectors were never stopped and the reaper invasion has yet to happen. No. I don't think so. Not even Shepard's mind is that creative to make all that happen while in a coma.