304 réponses à ce sujet

[TJBartlemus]

  Here is the poll for those who have missed it...

http://social.biowar...87/polls/38661/

Modifié par TJBartlemus, 31 octobre 2012 - 10:59 .

[TJBartlemus]

 The Omega DLC is finally out. I have mixed opinions about the entire thing...

Pros

• Very well done, and one of best things BioWare has made recently in the ME universe.
• The characters were engaging and very well written.
• Very action packed and plainly was a shooter.
• Had very dramatic moments.

Cons

• Was purely a shooter. Lacked mental stimulation.
• Was overpriced. 15$...really? With no big revelations this DLC was not worth that much.

....so what do you guys think??

[BleedingUranium]

That's an excellent summary.

[TJBartlemus]

Merry Christmas EVERYONE!!!

[Math Effect]

 Hello, I posted an analysis in the IT III thread and was told that my ideas fit bitter with WNT...so here it is again... the beginning is basically a rewording of WNT.  My unique contribution is how I feel the game should/will end since in several situations, IT results in a lack of ending.

Math Effect wrote...

 Late to the party here, but I felt compelled to give my analysis after finishing the series recently. I apologize if anything I say has already been mentioned before.

I want to advocate a quasi-Indoctrination Theory that has the Middle Path as the best choice (note: I am going to call it Middle and not synthesis).  IT bugs me because http://www.gamefront...ation-theory/6/ So hear me out.

I was first inspired by this screenshot (http://img829.images...8/dreamreal.jpg) found in the original IT thread.  Compared to the previous indoctrination scenes with Anderson and TIM, it’s apparent that elements of Shepard’s actual surroundings, i.e. London, have now been incorporated into the hallucination.  My interpretation of these similarities is that Shepard is now actually in a semi-conscious state and the Shepard we see is his real, physical body; in other words, Shepard is on his feet, though still confused.  Note that Shepard’s appearance now is identical to his appearance right after Harbinger’s blast, and he even begins the Catalyst scene on all fours and not laying on the platform (recall that he fell after killing the 3 husks, but seemingly gets up).  Shepard was at his weakest both physically and mentally directly after Harbinger’s blast, but in the time it took to overcome the first indoctrination test, he’s regained some consciousness.  What Shepard now sees is a blending of reality and illusion as the Reapers continue their indoctrination.

So with that intro, we finally get to the main points of my argument: the various “choices” and the requirements to activate these choices.  As argued by IT, Shepard never left London, but I also don’t think we’re completely in Shepard’s head.  So what do they choices mean and/or represent?  I believe a few things are important.

First is the location of each choice.  In the hybrid-setting I’ve presented, Middle is the choice that leads to what is actually the Conduit, and the mission objective given to Shepard is to reach the Conduit.  As far as the player is concerned, reaching the Crucible = victory at this point, and if Shepard can get there, then the final mission is a success.  ME has always been a linear game once you enter a Mission Map where Shepard moves from one location, and this instance should be no different.  Any actual meaningful RPG decisions have always been made using the conversation wheel, and while the wheel pops up, no actual decision is made (unless you choose Reject).  In contrast, Control and Destroy are Sidepaths, present only to distract Shepard from the primary goal: reaching the Conduit.

Second, Middle only opens up with a high enough EMS score.  EMS = ME3, just like “Loyalty Missions” = ME2.  Thematically, EMS represents the Galactic Alliance, while the themes of ME2 and ME1 were the Crew and the Mystery, respectively.  Thus, a low EMS score indicates that Shepard’s military force is weak, probably much too weak to oppose the Reaper invasions.  Consequently, the only paths open are sidepaths: Control and/or Destroy, simply because the Alliance likely does not have the manpower to protect the Crucible long enough for Shepard to open the Citadel arms, in which case reaching the Conduit accomplishes nothing.  But if Shepard has enough allies, only then can enough time be bought for Shepard to reach the Conduit; only then does Middle become available and true victory become achievable.  All game we’ve been told to unite the races or face defeat, so at the end of the day, it’s hard to believe that victory is achievable without building alliances.

Middle also fits best with the themes of ME3 in that symbolically, Synthesis is the most cooperative.  Control is rejected because we’ve fought against the idea all game.  Destroy is hard to argue against because we’ve been trying to destroy the Reapers (and with some success) for three games.  But when the player is given a choice,Paragon Shepard never chooses destruction.  Genophage cure, Geth Heretics, Reaper Code, Rachni… the list goes on.  With that said, IT is correct in that Synthesis also closely resembles the Reapers’ actual goals.  But while Control and Synthesis may be considered accepting Reaper indoctrination, Destroy also simply proves the Reapers’ points; even when presented with other options, organics choose conflict with synthetics.

So what about the Breathing scene?  To answer that, I look at the three choices symbolically again.  If Synthesis is completing the mission by reaching the Conduit, then by default, Control and Destroy are detours away from the Conduit.  Control is the worst, because it means Shepard’s giving up his own ideals and succumbing to TIM’s influence.  Fittingly, there literally is nothing to the right of the Conduit; control does not exist.  That leaves Destroy, for which I have two theories.  The weaker one is that Destroy is falling for Reaper tricks (much like Control is a Reaper trick).  Whoever heard of activating a device by shooting it until it explodes?  No, what Shepard’s shooting at is the Conduit itself.  Alternatively, remember what exactly was parked to the left of the Conduit blasting at Hammer Team moments before?  That’s right, Harbinger, and no, he did not weirdly fly off.  Destroy means forgoing the mission and choosing to shoot at Harbinger, to destroy THE Reaper.  In most situations, Shepard probably dies.  But with a high EMS, Shepard survives the encounter; it doesn’t matter how.  The mission was unsuccessful, but Shepard is alive.  There is still hope.

In summary, the Control, Destroy, and Synthesis choices exist only metaphorically, though the CatalystBoy’s words ought not be trusted.  Synthesis (Middle Path) best represents the game’s primary objective of unifying the galaxy.  Ultimately, Shepard’s final mission is to reach the Conduit and doing so saves the galaxy from annihilation.

Modifié par Math Effect, 07 janvier 2013 - 12:12 .

[TJBartlemus]

Math Effect wrote...

 Hello, I posted an analysis in the IT III thread and was told that my ideas fit bitter with WNT...so here it is again... the beginning is basically a rewording of WNT.  My unique contribution is how I feel the game should/will end since in several situations, IT results in a lack of ending.

*snip*

Very well thought out.  It is sorta amazing that so many people without being influenced by each other coming to the same or very near the same conclusion. 

[demersel]

It is all well and cozy but that makes synthesis the best option. And the mere thought is sickening.

[TJBartlemus]

demersel wrote...

It is all well and cozy but that makes synthesis the best option. And the mere thought is sickening.

Please explain or provide context cause I don't understand.  Do you mean the post by Math Effect? If so, that makes more sense. 

Modifié par TJBartlemus, 08 janvier 2013 - 12:35 .

[demersel]

TJ, yes I do. Sorry, for not giving more context.

[TJBartlemus]

demersel wrote...

TJ, yes I do. Sorry, for not giving more context.

It's alright.  

[smokingotter1]

TJBartlemus wrote...

Math Effect wrote...

 Hello, I posted an analysis in the IT III thread and was told that my ideas fit bitter with WNT...so here it is again... the beginning is basically a rewording of WNT.  My unique contribution is how I feel the game should/will end since in several situations, IT results in a lack of ending.

*snip*

Very well thought out.  It is sorta amazing that so many people without being influenced by each other coming to the same or very near the same conclusion. 

Could be synthesis is the right direction to get to the conduit and to the citadel but why does Shepard get indoctrinated TIM eyes? It could be that he does reach the conduit but only is allowed inside if he agrees with the cataylst/reapers goals.

Meaning its the right way to go, but you're only allowed to get to it if you agree to surrender. Assuming that by surrendering the reapers let indoctrinated Shepard get to the crucible so he can use it for reaper goals against the alliance.

[masster blaster]

I am with you buddy.

[TJBartlemus]

smokingotter1 wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

Math Effect wrote...

 Hello, I posted an analysis in the IT III thread and was told that my ideas fit bitter with WNT...so here it is again... the beginning is basically a rewording of WNT.  My unique contribution is how I feel the game should/will end since in several situations, IT results in a lack of ending.

*snip*

Very well thought out.  It is sorta amazing that so many people without being influenced by each other coming to the same or very near the same conclusion. 

Could be synthesis is the right direction to get to the conduit and to the citadel but why does Shepard get indoctrinated TIM eyes? It could be that he does reach the conduit but only is allowed inside if he agrees with the cataylst/reapers goals.

Meaning its the right way to go, but you're only allowed to get to it if you agree to surrender. Assuming that by surrendering the reapers let indoctrinated Shepard get to the crucible so he can use it for reaper goals against the alliance.

Would the idea that to beat fire you have to use fire be valid here? If synthesis is the true path to success, it could be that by becoming one with them you can use that to go against them more successfully. That mentality sorta sounds a little foolish to me however...

[Kesak12]

masster blaster wrote...

I am with you buddy.

[smokingotter1]

TJBartlemus wrote...

smokingotter1 wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

Math Effect wrote...

 Hello, I posted an analysis in the IT III thread and was told that my ideas fit bitter with WNT...so here it is again... the beginning is basically a rewording of WNT.  My unique contribution is how I feel the game should/will end since in several situations, IT results in a lack of ending.

*snip*

Very well thought out.  It is sorta amazing that so many people without being influenced by each other coming to the same or very near the same conclusion. 

Could be synthesis is the right direction to get to the conduit and to the citadel but why does Shepard get indoctrinated TIM eyes? It could be that he does reach the conduit but only is allowed inside if he agrees with the cataylst/reapers goals.

Meaning its the right way to go, but you're only allowed to get to it if you agree to surrender. Assuming that by surrendering the reapers let indoctrinated Shepard get to the crucible so he can use it for reaper goals against the alliance.

Would the idea that to beat fire you have to use fire be valid here? If synthesis is the true path to success, it could be that by becoming one with them you can use that to go against them more successfully. That mentality sorta sounds a little foolish to me however...

Not really, Harbinger is holding all the cards, there is no way you can make it to the conduit without agreeing to the reapers goals. It's more like

Synthesis: "you become the reaper's slave and they'll let you up into the citadel."
Destroy: "you head away from the conduit towards Harbinger defiately reject his deal and he kills you" (unless your EMS is high)

[TJBartlemus]

smokingotter1 wrote...

Not really, Harbinger is holding all the cards, there is no way you can make it to the conduit without agreeing to the reapers goals. It's more like

Synthesis: "you become the reaper's slave and they'll let you up into the citadel."
Destroy: "you head away from the conduit towards Harbinger defiately reject his deal and he kills you" (unless your EMS is high)

It sorta feels hopeless though. I would rather find another way than become a slave. (Sorta reminds me of Reject. )

[smokingotter1]

TJBartlemus wrote...

smokingotter1 wrote...

Not really, Harbinger is holding all the cards, there is no way you can make it to the conduit without agreeing to the reapers goals. It's more like

Synthesis: "you become the reaper's slave and they'll let you up into the citadel."
Destroy: "you head away from the conduit towards Harbinger defiately reject his deal and he kills you" (unless your EMS is high)

It sorta feels hopeless though. I would rather find another way than become a slave. (Sorta reminds me of Reject. )

TIM: "There are choices coming that you are not equipped to make" foreshadowing to a no-win situation. What did Saren say? Is submission not perferable to death? As a player you have that no-win option, surrender or death?

Yeah kind of a bummer, hopefully last DLC will give Shepard a chance.

Edit: See the black oily like substance in the middle of the explosion, same effect when reapers lasers hit the ground, Shepard is being executed by Harbinger in destroy.

Modifié par smokingotter1, 08 janvier 2013 - 01:22 .

[TJBartlemus]

smokingotter1 wrote...

TIM: "There are choices coming that you are not equipped to make" foreshadowing to a no-win situation. What did Saren say? Is submission not perferable to death? As a player you have that no-win option, surrender or death?

Yeah kind of a bummer, hopefully last DLC will give Shepard a chance.

Edit: See the black oily like substance in the middle of the explosion, same effect when reapers lasers hit the ground, Shepard is being executed by Harbinger in destroy.

If that was so, and Harbinger was truely "Destroying" Shepard, why would the Breath Scene occur at all? High will power would have no effect on a physical attack in the real world.

Modifié par TJBartlemus, 08 janvier 2013 - 01:26 .

[smokingotter1]

TJBartlemus wrote...

smokingotter1 wrote...

TIM: "There are choices coming that you are not equipped to make" foreshadowing to a no-win situation. What did Saren say? Is submission not perferable to death? As a player you have that no-win option, surrender or death?

Yeah kind of a bummer, hopefully last DLC will give Shepard a chance.

Edit: See the black oily like substance in the middle of the explosion, same effect when reapers lasers hit the ground, Shepard is being executed by Harbinger in destroy.

If that was so, and Harbinger was truely "Destroying" Shepard, why would the Breath Scene occur at all? High will power would have no effect on a physical attack in the real world.

Remember the scene in Star Wars  A New Hope where Darth Vader is about to kill Luke Skywalker than out of nowhere Han Solo comes in and blindsides Vader? I'm thinking that is what happens in high ems.

[401 Kill]

Can someone please point me into the direction of TIM/Anderson scene interpretation? I really am interested in what that entails.

[demersel]

This. For all we know everything might be happenning in shepard's mind and take only a slip second or less of real time - the way your entire life flashes before your eyes just before you die, but harbinger will get distracted the very last second - attacked or something. Picking destroy and the explosion in destroy may be Harbinger going on with the kill but in very high EMS he gets prevented from finishing you off.

[401 Kill]

smokingotter1 wrote...

Remember the scene in Star Wars  A New Hope where Darth Vader is about to kill Luke Skywalker than out of nowhere Han Solo comes in and blindsides Vader? I'm thinking that is what happens in high ems.

Yes, that sounds nice. Perhaps once Shepard was determined to resist, he was useless to the cause, but just before Harbinger shot his beam at Shepard... The high EMS either distracts him or prevents him from excicuting Shepard.

[401 Kill]

demersel wrote...

This. For all we know everything might be happenning in shepard's mind and take only a slip second or less of real time - the way your entire life flashes before your eyes just before you die, but harbinger will get distracted the very last second - attacked or something. Picking destroy and the explosion in destroy may be Harbinger going on with the kill but in very high EMS he gets prevented from finishing you off.

I remember some discussion about how the sounds as you are walking to the terminal could sound like gunshots and husk roars... As if the battle is still happening fiercely around Shepard and is being incorporated into the illusion (like how in dreams what you hear or feel in Real Life will be incorporated within that dream).

[Math Effect]

I realize most people dislike Synthesis as the answer and it's a huge barrier to overcome, which is why one of primary goals was separate  the Middle Path (Conduit) and Synthesis into two separate entities.  Here's my reasoning for why this should be possible.

In every situation up until the final scene, RPG decisions that impact the storyline of the game is made using the Dialogue wheel (or Interrupts in some cases).  Some key examples are the fates of the Council in ME1, the fate of the Rachni in ME1, and the fate of the Geth heretics in ME2.  Even inconsequential situations like Conrad Verner's scenes are made using the Dialogue wheel.  The Dialogue Wheel has always been directly associated with Shepard's actions.  In other words, Shepard's thoughts or feelings ALWAYS resulted in action.  In contrast, when Shepard enters into a mission, it is normally quite linear.  Sure, random debris falls and forces Shepard to take detours, but that's all programmed into the game ahead of time; the player doesn't actually make storyline decisions when physically in control of Shepard.

So back to the Finale.  The Dialogue wheel does pop-up, but no choice is made using it (except Refuse).   If I again take the Dialogue wheel to represent Shepard's thoughts and/or feelings and remember that in this situation, the Reapers are actively trying to indoctrinate him, my conclusion is that BECAUSE of the indoctrination, what Shepard thinks/says will NOT result in an action.  There is now a disconnect between what Shepard thinks/says and what actually happens. For example, Shepard could actually THINK he wants to "Control" the Reapers, but when the Dialogue closes, the player can have him walk to "Destroy" anyways.  You would think that an indoctrination setting would only require Dialogue, i.e. Shepard giving up mentally and/or spiritually would be enough.  And in fact, the scene with the TIM clearly shows that if Shepard does succumb to Indoctrination a Critical Mission Failure will occur.  Again, only the Dialogue Wheel and Interrupts are needed to decide Shepard's path.

Instead, if you compare Shepard's final decision to an actual linear mission, then in my eyes, Shepard's one and only goal is to make it to the Conduit.  That, to me, brings a closure that IT does not.

Modifié par Math Effect, 08 janvier 2013 - 01:53 .

[demersel]

Math Effect. The thing is that the whole conduit thing is a likely to be lie. It isn't a conduit. The conduit looks nothing like it. On the other hand reapers climate-change+indoctrination beam looks exaclty like it.