304 réponses à ce sujet

[Ausstig]

Nizaris1 wrote...

No one value freedom until their freedom is taken away...

My country was under British rule for 400 years, before that my country was a free country, my people are free, we are the biggest emporium in SEA and the most advance kingdom in the east, until the west come and ruin everything...Portuguese, Spain, Dutch and British...then Japan come like hurricane, then Communist...then back to British....then we got our independence in 1957. My mom use to tell me how living under British, Japan and Communist...living in fear, cannot go anywhere at night, women can got raped anytime, anyone can got shot out of mistaken as Japanese, or British, or Communist agent...anyone can go to prison accused as agents any of those three.

Now people have forgot how hard living under oppression, not liberated, no freedom...today generation take everything for granted.

So, for most of western people, they don't know the value of freedom, especially USA people, because they never got invaded, that is why 9/11 is considered so terror for them, while actually in the east people got bombed everyday...and no one care...

Anyway, my point is, no one value freedom until their freedom is taken away...

Are you from Malaya? Cause it never went communist, there was an 'inserecution' but it never took over the nation. In fact it could be seen as similar to the Mage-Templar War. A radical minority, with ethnic motivations mixed in, wages a war to change the system. 

WAR took away freedom not the governments, mostly the Japs in WW2 did have 'pleasure camps' for their soldiers and were pretty evil in how they treated prisioners. 

Also weren't their British troops stationed in Malaya until 63? I know our war moroials say we were there until the 60's, useualy 60/1

Modifié par Ausstig, 06 août 2012 - 09:53 .

[Xilizhra]

Well which moral scale are we using? Are we going by a strict numbers game of the most good for the most people? Are we placing mages on a pedestal and saying that they're good is more valuable than the common good? Or are we going by the idea that it is immoral to harm or sacrifice the few for the many? Cause to me it is immoral to subject the general populace to the dangers of magic with nothing but hope that should something go awry the anti-mage force (let's call them Ralpmets) barracks potentially miles away will get word and send help before they get killed. I find it particularly abhorrent when there is an established systme that, if properly managed, works far better. Setting the mages loose is essentially like my government telling me it is illegal and I will be puyt in prison if I defend myself against someone who attacks me. It's entirely possible I will go my entire life without ever being assaulted and as such the law is not an issue, but if someone should attack me, and I'm stuck waiting for somebody to call the police and the police to show up, I'm a dead man.

It's immoral to imprison people based on what they might do. In all likelihood, the defenses against possession will probably involve some amount of that anyway, but that can't be the main reason for it. Though do note that mages can still be tracked far more easily that nonmage criminals because of their phylacteries, so the templars would likely show up rather quickly on the scene. Also note that you're not Rambo and if someone decides they want to kill you and doesn't care about secrecy, unless they're especially incompetent, you're probably dead regardless of whether or not they're a mage.

Short of branding it into their foreheads (ouch by the way) what makes you think mages will keep such a rune on their foreheads? Besides that only addresses part of what makes mages dangerous. As I've said in other threads as well as this one accidents can happen when dealing with magic, and the results can be disasterous. We see an apprentice start, lose control of, and being engulfed in a blazing inferno, what would have happened had his instructor not been there? How quickly could a similar fire spread through a town or village? Can magical fire be extinguished with water? Wilhelm's another good example. His experiments with Shale ended up with Shale killing him. What would have happened if she hadn't stopped there? What kind of defence could those people have put up if Shale had just kept going until everything in the immediate vicinity was dead.

Golems aren't magical, at least not in the sense of having anything to do with a mage's spells. And the apprentice... was an apprentice and would of course be supervised until he stopped having accidents like that. I'm not advocating gross dereliction of teaching duty.

[Ausstig]

Nizaris1 wrote...

Communist didn't rule as government, but at that time there is a power vacuum, it is because the British chicken out, running away when Japanese land here. British who supply communists with weapons to fight and mess up with Japanese. Then when Japanese surrender because of atomic bomb in Japan, there is power vacuum here, that is where Communist took over. Then British come back to claim their former colony and clean up the Communist.

Malays have kings, but at that time none functions, they all actually British butt licker...

then the Malays start to revolt, we learn politic, everything from experience, there is leafiest group, right wing group, everybody want to be liberated and don't want to be under foreign rule/influence...and there in 1957 we got our liberation after so much conflicts and well..

I know of the British Coowardece in Malaya, it cost us dearly, not as much as your people I do not mean to sound as if I am undermining what you went through just to say preaching to the choire. 

I was not awear of that I do know that many of the Japanese soldiers were armed after their surender in order to keep order. life is funny like that.

Malaya did gain it's indpendence as a result of the inserrection, inorder to undermin suppourt for the rebels, though what do you mena by "we learn politic, everything from experience", I don't understand? 

Any way 

[DPSSOC]

BrotherWarth wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...
Mages are not the least of us. Mages have it pretty sweet, and that's accounting for the ill behaved Templars. They have food, clothing, shelter, and education; they maintain a lifestyle that most commoners would kill for. Yes they suffer abuse from the Templars but the commoners and poor suffer abuse too. It's why I never got the Mage Warden whining about the Circle. There's nothing to indicate he or she has sufferred abuse from the Templars, as Irving's star pupil, so he/she literally has nothing to comlain about.

Prison is always prison.

 
The Circle is not a prison, if it is it's minimum security; you aren't allowed to leave, but other than that you're largely free to do as you wish.  You are free to study and research as you wish, once you pass your Harrowing your time is largely your own.  The Circle is a quarantine, the people inside, through no fault of their own, are a danger to those around them, so they are kept separate and comfortable to live out their lives as they wish.  I won't deny that the Circle, as currently run, doesn't work, it's fallen a long way from what it originally set out to be, but the system itself, implemented correctly, is the best option for everybody.

BrotherWarth wrote...
Maybe the experience was more awful for me than it would be for most, but I don't think anyone can say "You have food, clothes and shelter. What do you have to complain about?" unless you've had an actual experience of being confined for an extended amount of time.

I can't say I've ever been confined for an extended period of time, but I have had to struggle for food, clothing, and shelter.  It shifts your perspective on what's worth complaining about when you have to worry about having enough food, or being able to pay your rent, or what you're gonna do when winter comes because you don't have and can't afford a jacket.  I genuinely considered getting myself thrown in prison, or at my worst suicide, just so I wouldn't have to worry anymore.  When you want for basic needs higher wants like freedom and comfort kinda fade into the background.

Mages complain about freedom and autonomy because they want for nothing else.  All their necessities are provided for them and they're not required to do anything for them.  Releasing this horde of selfish, entitled, pricks on the world is in no way shape or form a good idea.

Xilizhra wrote...
Though do note that mages can still be tracked far more easily that nonmage criminals because of their phylacteries, so the templars would likely show up rather quickly on the scene.

The phylactery isn't a crystal ball, it doesn't let you see everything that's going on with the mage. If something goes wrong in your proposed system the Templars have to hear about it, get to the location, and then assist. Think Firefighters if we didn't have phones. Hell even with phones firefighters often arrive on the scene too late. Again I'm not talking about criminals here, or even abominations, I'm talking about what happens when there's an accident, when a mage's research blows up in their face or they attempt a spell they can't control.

Xilizhra wrote...
Also note that you're not Rambo and if someone decides they want to kill you and doesn't care about secrecy, unless they're especially incompetent, you're probably dead regardless of whether or not they're a mage.

Let's apply this reasoning to police shall we. Someone breaks into my house and I call the police and get this, "Well if they want to hurt you your dead anyway so we're not gonna send anybody to help." However your comment doesn't address my argument, that it's immoral to force the common people to live with nothing but hope to protect them from the well known and documented dangers of magic, just so the mages don't have to live in that luxurious tower.

Xilizhra wrote...
Golems aren't magical, at least not in the sense of having anything to do with a mage's spells.

So what, it's still an example of magical research having unforseen, fatal consequences. Now the people of the village were lucky in that Shale only killed one person, but what if she hadn't? What could the people hope to do to protect themselves if Wilhelm's research caused Shale to kill not just him, but everyone else?

Xilizhra wrote...
And the apprentice... was an apprentice and would of course be supervised until he stopped having accidents like that. I'm not advocating gross dereliction of teaching duty.

Short of locking him in a tower where he's under constant supervision how do you propose to achieve this? Furthermore what's to prevent his reach from exceeding his grasp in the future, after he's been deemed "safe"?

[Xilizhra]

The Circle is not a prison, if it is it's minimum security; you aren't allowed to leave, but other than that you're largely free to do as you wish. You are free to study and research as you wish, once you pass your Harrowing your time is largely your own. The Circle is a quarantine, the people inside, through no fault of their own, are a danger to those around them, so they are kept separate and comfortable to live out their lives as they wish. I won't deny that the Circle, as currently run, doesn't work, it's fallen a long way from what it originally set out to be, but the system itself, implemented correctly, is the best option for everybody.

The "correct" implementation would be to kick the Chantry out. And while Tevinter is a poor example of human rights implementation (although it's also the only human nation that we've seen elves of military or noble rank from), the mages there can keep each other in check with minimal templar interference. I doubt this has anything to do directly with mages having political power over nonmages, and even that isn't worse, inherently, from the rule by nobility practiced by every other nation. Only slavery is the real problem.

Mages complain about freedom and autonomy because they want for nothing else. All their necessities are provided for them and they're not required to do anything for them. Releasing this horde of selfish, entitled, pricks on the world is in no way shape or form a good idea.

Except be imprisoned, hated, and run the risk of being abused/mind raped/actually raped/killed.

The phylactery isn't a crystal ball, it doesn't let you see everything that's going on with the mage. If something goes wrong in your proposed system the Templars have to hear about it, get to the location, and then assist. Think Firefighters if we didn't have phones. Hell even with phones firefighters often arrive on the scene too late. Again I'm not talking about criminals here, or even abominations, I'm talking about what happens when there's an accident, when a mage's research blows up in their face or they attempt a spell they can't control.

And that's why mages wouldn't conduct risky experiments on the street. Why are you assuming that they'd be dumb enough to do this in unsafe areas?

Let's apply this reasoning to police shall we. Someone breaks into my house and I call the police and get this, "Well if they want to hurt you your dead anyway so we're not gonna send anybody to help." However your comment doesn't address my argument, that it's immoral to force the common people to live with nothing but hope to protect them from the well known and documented dangers of magic, just so the mages don't have to live in that luxurious tower.

You're moving the goalposts. Your argument was about self-defense, not calling in people to protect you. The templars would still be called in in this scenario. In any case, if there were more templars around and if their training wasn't monopolized by the Chantry, they could have more templars on close hand anyway.

So what, it's still an example of magical research having unforseen, fatal consequences. Now the people of the village were lucky in that Shale only killed one person, but what if she hadn't? What could the people hope to do to protect themselves if Wilhelm's research caused Shale to kill not just him, but everyone else?

Templars are just guys in metal suits to Shale; there's not a significant inherent difference between her fighting templars and fighting village guards. And if she was in the Circle tower, she could just jump out a window, enjoy the resilience to falls that rock possesses, and then leave to go on a murderous rampage elsewhere.

Short of locking him in a tower where he's under constant supervision how do you propose to achieve this? Furthermore what's to prevent his reach from exceeding his grasp in the future, after he's been deemed "safe"?

A form of stricter confinement may be wise when dealing with apprentices, although they should still have time to leave on occasion (likely supervised).

[General User]

BrotherWarth wrote...

You seem to be operating under the delusion that the lobotomy is the pinnacle of mental illness treatment. Let me explain exactly what a prefrontal lobotomy is- a medical drill is used to pierce the skull above each temple. Then a tool with an extending cutting wire is placed into the brain as far as the surgeon feels is necessary. No measurements are taken because no one knew exactly what they were doing. The cutting wire is then extended and twisted to remove a section of the brain on either side. The goal of the procedure, according to its creator, was never to cure or even treat mental illness but merely to make the patient manageable for asylum staff.
What modern surgeons perform today is NOT a lobotomy. Many forms of mental illness can be caused by enlarged or malfunctioning sections of the brain. Surgery can be an option to reduce or even cure symptoms. But just like amputation is no longer the default procedure to treat a gunshot wound to the leg, the prefrontal lobotomy is not EVER used to treat mental illness.

You seem to have a fairly clear understanding of psychosurgical theory from decades past.  Since this isn't a classroom, and I'm not your professor, if you're really interested in a more comprehensive understanding of how those techniques have evolved, updated, and are currently used to treat mental illness I'm not sure what more I can do for you than point you in the right direction.  If you wish to correspond further on this matter, please do so in PM.

BrotherWarth wrote...

This is what's called cutting off the nise to spite the face. Magic is a tool. Just as a hammer is a tool of creation is also a weapon.

Not at all.  Magic might be a tool and a weapon, but it's way more than just a hammer.  Pretty much the worst someone can do to themselves misusing a hammer is smash their own hand, pretty much the worst they can do to others is smash their head.  Magic is in a whole other league of danger, for a tool/weapon analogy, explosives fit much better.  Like magic explosives may be used as tools or weapons, and alos like magic the inherent danger they represent necessitates that they be tightly controlled.

BrotherWarth wrote...

How about the insane people who blow up buildings full of people? Or fly planes into towers. Or strap powerful bombs to their body and walk into a crowded area. They don't need magic.
Danger is an everpresent danger. No one will ever be free from danger. Where does this route end?

Not all dangers  are created equal.  There are dangers that are largely unpredictable and then there are dangers that are, if not predictable exactly then at least able to be mitigated to one extent or another.  Magic and mages fall into the latter category.

BrotherWarth wrote...

Every Elf rounded up and imprisoned? They have their own blood magic and pray to dangerous gods after all.

If you mean the Dalish, they are most often best dealt with by giving them a wide berth and in severe cases by chasing them away at the point of a sword.  The Dalish reputation for being hostile and violent towards non-elves is well deserved.

BrotherWarth wrote...

Or what about the dwarves? They can make nigh invulnerable metal men to carry out their whims using the closest thing they have to blood magic.

If you mean the dwarves of Orzammar.  Not anymore they don't.  And, in any case, Orzammar is really just a rather unique member in the Thedas family of nations,  any potential threat they pose to their neighbors is largely mitigated by facts that not only is Orzammar an insular, and even isolationist city-state, but that the dwarves themselves overwhelming prefer to interact with their human neighbors through the mediums of commerce and trade.

BrotherWarth wrote...

And what of the Qunari?[…] They sack cities and overthrow governments to spread a dangerous religion. […] They're too violent and powerful to be allowed to do as they please.

Correct.

BrotherWarth wrote...

But hell, humans are the most dangerous of all. They destroy cultures, bring blights upon the land and tarnish heaven itself. It wasn't mages that destroyed the Elven culture, it was human bloodlust.

The elves are, and always have been, their own worst enemies.

BrotherWarth wrote...

Who will protect the world from humans?

Other humans.  See Teryn Loghain.

Modifié par General User, 06 août 2012 - 03:59 .

[Tinu]

I don't see why blood magic is more dangerous than setting someone on fire.
There is more chance of becoming an abomination if you do use it, but if you are being put through the Harrowing, than you can become one, even without having used blood magic.
Either way, you'll die if you're not carefull. If you can't cast your spells correct, than you can put yourself on fire as well. Just as a demon can take control over you.

[DPSSOC]

[quote]Xilizhra wrote...


[quote]The Circle is not a prison, if it is it's minimum security; you aren't allowed to leave, but other than that you're largely free to do as you wish. You are free to study and research as you wish, once you pass your Harrowing your time is largely your own. The Circle is a quarantine, the people inside, through no fault of their own, are a danger to those around them, so they are kept separate and comfortable to live out their lives as they wish. I won't deny that the Circle, as currently run, doesn't work, it's fallen a long way from what it originally set out to be, but the system itself, implemented correctly, is the best option for everybody.[/quote]
The "correct" implementation would be to kick the Chantry out. And while Tevinter is a poor example of human rights implementation (although it's also the only human nation that we've seen elves of military or noble rank from), the mages there can keep each other in check with minimal templar interference. I doubt this has anything to do directly with mages having political power over nonmages, and even that isn't worse, inherently, from the rule by nobility practiced by every other nation. Only slavery is the real problem.[/quote]

Tevinter still has a Circle.  Mages are still taken from their families for training and they're still watched over by Templars.  I won't address this any further at the moment because I honestly know very little about Tevinter off hand.

[quote]Xilizhra wrote...
[quote]Mages complain about freedom and autonomy because they want for nothing else. All their necessities are provided for them and they're not required to do anything for them. Releasing this horde of selfish, entitled, pricks on the world is in no way shape or form a good idea.
[/quote]
Except be imprisoned, hated, and run the risk of being abused/mind raped/actually raped/killed.[/quote]

Imprisoned would fall under wanting for freedom, I can't think of a single mage who's bothered by not being liked by non-mages.  Come to think of it I can only think of one mage who seems to care about non-mages at all.  The abuses they suffer are again why they want for freedom.  I understand it however I can't sympathize because I know full well that common people run the same risk of the same abuses almost everywhere, and they are much worse off.  It's similar to how I responded when my friends, who'd had everything provided for them their whole lives, complained about having to get a part-time job because their folks wouldn't give them money to go drinking, while I was working two jobs just to get by.  World's smallest violin.

[quote]Xilizhra wrote...


[quote]The phylactery isn't a crystal ball, it doesn't let you see everything that's going on with the mage. If something goes wrong in your proposed system the Templars have to hear about it, get to the location, and then assist. Think Firefighters if we didn't have phones. Hell even with phones firefighters often arrive on the scene too late. Again I'm not talking about criminals here, or even abominations, I'm talking about what happens when there's an accident, when a mage's research blows up in their face or they attempt a spell they can't control.[/quote]
And that's why mages wouldn't conduct risky experiments on the street. Why are you assuming that they'd be dumb enough to do this in unsafe areas?[/quote]

Because we've got a golden example of a mage dabbling in things he didn't understand in the middle of a population center.  Wilhelm's house wasn't a safe distance away and from where we find Shale he was clearly doing experiments on her in the middle of town.  I assume they'd be morons because mages we meet in game regularly demonstrate a lack of intelligence, common sense, and regard for human life.  Like I said I can only think of one mage who considers non-mages at all in their day to day activities.

[quote]Xilizhra wrote...


[quote]Let's apply this reasoning to police shall we. Someone breaks into my house and I call the police and get this, "Well if they want to hurt you your dead anyway so we're not gonna send anybody to help." However your comment doesn't address my argument, that it's immoral to force the common people to live with nothing but hope to protect them from the well known and documented dangers of magic, just so the mages don't have to live in that luxurious tower.[/quote]
You're moving the goalposts. Your argument was about self-defense, not calling in people to protect you.[/quote]
 
Ok I see, my fault poor wording and I misunderstood what you were referring to.  I used the analogy of self defence because that would be the position non-mages find themselves in, completely unable to defend themselves with nothing but hope that help will arrive in time.  And they'd be fully aware of it every day of their lives.  You don't see it as unnecessarily cruel to subject everyone living near a mage to that kind of fear, that at any moment some horrible accident could occur and they can do nothing but hope it doesn't kill them, or hope the Templars show up in time to save them if it's an abomination or just outright evil mage.

[quote]Xilizhra wrote...
In any case, if there were more templars around and if their training wasn't monopolized by the Chantry, they could have more templars on close hand anyway.[/quote]

If there were more people willing and able to be Templars, there'd be more Templars now.  The Chantry doesn't artificially limit the number of Templars they train as many as they can.  The problem is not everyone is able to be a Templar just like not everyone is able to be a Guard or Soldier.  Add to this the very dangerous proposition of facing down mages and you have a real limit on viable volunteers.  Short of governments conscripting people into the Templars it's unlikely their ranks would increase, in fact without the suggestion that the Templars are the righteous hand of the Maker their numbers would probably drop.

[quote]Xilizhra wrote...


[quote]So what, it's still an example of magical research having unforseen, fatal consequences. Now the people of the village were lucky in that Shale only killed one person, but what if she hadn't? What could the people hope to do to protect themselves if Wilhelm's research caused Shale to kill not just him, but everyone else?[/quote]
Templars are just guys in metal suits to Shale; there's not a significant inherent difference between her fighting templars and fighting village guards. And if she was in the Circle tower, she could just jump out a window, enjoy the resilience to falls that rock possesses, and then leave to go on a murderous rampage elsewhere.[/quote]

Except in the Circle there are mages who could be better able to contain Shale.  Templars and mages have a chance, it's a small one but it's a chance, normal people have nothing.

[quote]Xilizhra wrote...


[quote]Short of locking him in a tower where he's under constant supervision how do you propose to achieve this? Furthermore what's to prevent his reach from exceeding his grasp in the future, after he's been deemed "safe"? [/quote]
A form of stricter confinement may be wise when dealing with apprentices, although they should still have time to leave on occasion (likely supervised).[/quote]

Uh huh and once they aren't apprentices anymore?  When he's passed his Harrowing or whatever test they devise to determine whether a mage is fully trained or not?  When you let him out into the world with 0 supervision because he can go wherever the hell he wants and do whatever he wants in the privacy of his own home?

[schalafi]

To make things a little more equal, perhaps the children of Templars should be taken away from their parents and locked in the Chantry for the rest of their lives. They could be let out occasionally, when needed, but other than that, they would be prisoners, just as much as the Mages are. After all they are Lyrium addicts, and as such could pose a danger to others.

I know this is just a thought, but I see this whole mess in Kirkwall as a battle of cause and effect. Do the Templar's harassing cause the Mages to turn into abominations, or do the Mages just turn to get more power? Somehow, I think the whole system stinks, and the Circle and the Chantry should both be eliminated. Then Mages could be judged by their own behavior, just like ordinary people, and the Courts should be the one to do the judging. Same for Templars, with no Mages to hunt they could be denied Lyrium, and just be Chantry priests, not hunters... Or else just eliminated altogether.

Modifié par schalafi, 06 août 2012 - 04:05 .

[Xilizhra]

Tevinter still has a Circle. Mages are still taken from their families for training and they're still watched over by Templars. I won't address this any further at the moment because I honestly know very little about Tevinter off hand.

The mages are in charge and the templars only enforce the law. Which seems to work.

Imprisoned would fall under wanting for freedom, I can't think of a single mage who's bothered by not being liked by non-mages. Come to think of it I can only think of one mage who seems to care about non-mages at all. The abuses they suffer are again why they want for freedom. I understand it however I can't sympathize because I know full well that common people run the same risk of the same abuses almost everywhere, and they are much worse off. It's similar to how I responded when my friends, who'd had everything provided for them their whole lives, complained about having to get a part-time job because their folks wouldn't give them money to go drinking, while I was working two jobs just to get by. World's smallest violin.

Actually, most of them don't run the risk of the same abuses, at least not institutionally. The common people generally get to stay with their families, travel, sometimes move upwards depending on how much social mobility there is in the nation... immediate material benefits don't always mean that much depending on circumstances, and I believe you're being badly insensitive.

Because we've got a golden example of a mage dabbling in things he didn't understand in the middle of a population center. Wilhelm's house wasn't a safe distance away and from where we find Shale he was clearly doing experiments on her in the middle of town. I assume they'd be morons because mages we meet in game regularly demonstrate a lack of intelligence, common sense, and regard for human life. Like I said I can only think of one mage who considers non-mages at all in their day to day activities.

He also had a shielded underground lab, remember. In any case, with only the Circle to bring him up, the thought of needing to worry about experiment placement would never have crossed his mind because considering nonmages wasn't part of the indoctrinated worldview, as you're never supposed to need to worry about nonmages.

Ok I see, my fault poor wording and I misunderstood what you were referring to. I used the analogy of self defence because that would be the position non-mages find themselves in, completely unable to defend themselves with nothing but hope that help will arrive in time. And they'd be fully aware of it every day of their lives. You don't see it as unnecessarily cruel to subject everyone living near a mage to that kind of fear, that at any moment some horrible accident could occur and they can do nothing but hope it doesn't kill them, or hope the Templars show up in time to save them if it's an abomination or just outright evil mage.

I don't think that most people would ever even see a mage, and as a rule, when danger isn't waving itself in peoples' faces, they don't think about it too much. I live in a town where we get fairly regular tornado sightings, but I don't think about that at all unless there's an actual warning out. I don't believe I'd be subjecting anyone to that kind of fear; if the Chantry decided to step up preaching about mages being horrible dangers, that's their business and they'd be the ones to spread that fear.

Except in the Circle there are mages who could be better able to contain Shale. Templars and mages have a chance, it's a small one but it's a chance, normal people have nothing.

Ah, so it's more mages who are needed to contain dangers like this, and not templars. Good to know. I daresay they'd be useful for dealing with other threats as well, especially in small towns where a large militia may not be able to be on hand, no?

Uh huh and once they aren't apprentices anymore? When he's passed his Harrowing or whatever test they devise to determine whether a mage is fully trained or not? When you let him out into the world with 0 supervision because he can go wherever the hell he wants and do whatever he wants in the privacy of his own home?

The important thing is to get rid of the magophobic religious order controlling everything. After which... I imagine it'd be down to a lot of regulations to cover a lot of different situations, the specifics of which I admittedly don't perfectly know at this point of time.

[schalafi]

Elthena told Patrice that the courts would decide her fate, so why isn't there a Civil court in Kirkwall for everyone? As far as I know, the Mages don't have a court, just a First Enchanter. That's too much power for one person. Same with Meredith having too much power, with the right to tranquilize any, or all mages at her whim.

[Silfren]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...


3) The toolset may be able to shed some light on how old they are -- as through it, we were able to learn Marethari's age in DAO. So maybe we can do the same for DAII.

Don't count on that.  The toolset ages should by no means be taken as the definite ages of any characters.  The one for Alistair put him at 38, because he was originally written to be an older, embittered Warden, not the young, idealistic man he turned out to be, so it would seem that the ages listed in the toolset for Origins is a remnant of early-stage ideas that got scrapped.  Don't go taking them as canon.

[Ausstig]

TinuHawke wrote...

I don't see why blood magic is more dangerous than setting someone on fire.
.

It is more subtle, if you set someone on fire everyone sees you do it, if you mind control someone, no one may be awre. 

Also MIND CONTROL, you become a pupet with in your own body. 

So that is why.

Also apparetnly you can only learn it by dealing with deamons. 

[LobselVith8]

Ausstig wrote...

Also apparetnly you can only learn it by dealing with deamons. 

Demons are one source, but not the only one. Merrill is asked if she learned blood magic accidentally (by getting cut), Jowan is implied to have learned it from books, and the Orlesian Warden can ask the Baroness to teach him because he expects a blood mage to teach him the craft.

[Ausstig]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Ausstig wrote...

Also apparetnly you can only learn it by dealing with deamons. 

Demons are one source, but not the only one. Merrill is asked if she learned blood magic accidentally (by getting cut), Jowan is implied to have learned it from books, and the Orlesian Warden can ask the Baroness to teach him because he expects a blood mage to teach him the craft.

Just to point out, Merrill is asked by Anders if she did lrean it by accident and she says that she sought the deamon out. 


But from what he said it is possible to learn it by accident

Modifié par Ausstig, 07 août 2012 - 12:43 .

[Xilizhra]

Which has little to do with blood magic inherently.

[LobselVith8]

Ausstig wrote...

Just to point out, Merrill is asked by Anders if she did lrean it by accident and she says that she sought the deamon out. 

I only meant it addressed an alternative method to learn the craft of blood magic.

As for Audacity, he isn't in a position to threaten anyone. A demon sundered from the Fade and trapped in a totem for centuries.

[Ausstig]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Ausstig wrote...

Just to point out, Merrill is asked by Anders if she did lrean it by accident and she says that she sought the deamon out. 

I only meant it addressed an alternative method to learn the craft of blood magic.

As for Audacity, he isn't in a position to threaten anyone. A demon sundered from the Fade and trapped in a totem for centuries.

How did that quest line end? 

[Tinu]

I wonder... Blood is very powerful, so why isn't it possible to control blood to guide a certain healing proces?

Ausstig wrote...
It is more subtle, if you set someone on fire everyone sees you do it, if you mind control someone, no one may be awre. 

You can poison someone without anyone becoming aware of it. It's very subtle and doesn't involve any blood magic at all. 

[LobselVith8]

Ausstig wrote...

How did that quest line end? 

With Marethari letting the demon free, becoming an abomination, endangering her clan, and possibly getting the clan killed. Hawke can even tell Merrill that Marethari was "stupid."