I personally suspect that Lambert is alive, and that he'll be either the Big Bad or Dragon of the next game.
Do we as players understand how dangerous rouge Mages/Abominations are?
Débuté par
Ausstig
, août 02 2012 10:47
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#102
Posté 04 août 2012 - 08:57
Ausstig
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Xilizhra wrote...
I personally suspect that Lambert is alive, and that he'll be either the Big Bad or Dragon of the next game.
Why he is not nearly as evil as Adrian. I think/hope he is more like Loghain character. I want to fight with him, his view is MUCH more understandable then Adrians'.
Maybe have him be saved by a mage?
#103
Guest_Nizaris1_*
Posté 04 août 2012 - 12:10
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Harrowing is a demonic ritual by the Templar and Circle Mage, it seems to be the Chantry allow it
Cullen admit that there is actually no solution because Mages are born naturally, why must the Chantry act like such to mages? Why not just let the mages live as they are naturally? The Chantry only need to STOP TREATING/LABELLING ALL MAGES THE SAME AS TEVINTER IMPERIUM MAGES/MAGISTERS
Cullen admit that there is actually no solution because Mages are born naturally, why must the Chantry act like such to mages? Why not just let the mages live as they are naturally? The Chantry only need to STOP TREATING/LABELLING ALL MAGES THE SAME AS TEVINTER IMPERIUM MAGES/MAGISTERS
Modifié par Nizaris1, 04 août 2012 - 12:25 .
#104
Guest_Nizaris1_*
Posté 04 août 2012 - 12:22
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Gregoir said that magic must serve men, not rule over him, that is what Andraste said when she cast down TEVINTER IMPERIUM blah blah blah...then Irving said that is why Harrowing exist in which a test for the Mage to see if can defeat the demon...if the mage cannot defeat the demon Gregoir said the Templar must kill the mage...at Mage Origin Harrowing, it is totally NO RELATION at all with the Harrowing, It is a pure propaganda
it is like saying "Iraq have weapon of mass destruction, USA have invade Iraq in search of that weapon....that is why you Muslim must being thrown into that tiger cage and defeat the tiger, if you cannot defeat the tiger, we will shoot you"
See?
It is all just paranoia by the Chantry, not all Mages are Tevinter, same like not all Muslims are Iraqis or Terrorists
it is like saying "Iraq have weapon of mass destruction, USA have invade Iraq in search of that weapon....that is why you Muslim must being thrown into that tiger cage and defeat the tiger, if you cannot defeat the tiger, we will shoot you"
See?
It is all just paranoia by the Chantry, not all Mages are Tevinter, same like not all Muslims are Iraqis or Terrorists
Modifié par Nizaris1, 04 août 2012 - 12:26 .
#105
Posté 04 août 2012 - 02:20
Baronesa
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Nizaris1 wrote...
Gregoir said that magic must serve men, not rule over him, that is what Andraste said when she cast down TEVINTER IMPERIUM blah blah blah...then Irving said that is why Harrowing exist in which a test for the Mage to see if can defeat the demon...if the mage cannot defeat the demon Gregoir said the Templar must kill the mage...at Mage Origin Harrowing, it is totally NO RELATION at all with the Harrowing, It is a pure propaganda
it is like saying "Iraq have weapon of mass destruction, USA have invade Iraq in search of that weapon....that is why you Muslim must being thrown into that tiger cage and defeat the tiger, if you cannot defeat the tiger, we will shoot you"
See?
It is all just paranoia by the Chantry, not all Mages are Tevinter, same like not all Muslims are Iraqis or Terrorists
I could just kiss you now.
Well said
#106
Posté 04 août 2012 - 02:25
Shadowvalker
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I seems to me that the templars are just like a policeman who don't accept that bad guys don't play by any rules and then complains about the danger of the job.....!
#107
Posté 04 août 2012 - 03:49
LobselVith8
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Xilizhra wrote...
I personally suspect that Lambert is alive, and that he'll be either the Big Bad or Dragon of the next game.
I thought Cole killed him?
#108
Posté 04 août 2012 - 04:09
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I haven't finished Asunder yet, so I suppose we'll see.LobselVith8 wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
I personally suspect that Lambert is alive, and that he'll be either the Big Bad or Dragon of the next game.
I thought Cole killed him?
#109
Posté 04 août 2012 - 04:11
LobselVith8
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Xilizhra wrote...
I haven't finished Asunder yet, so I suppose we'll see.
You don't avoid spoilers, I take it?
#110
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Posté 04 août 2012 - 04:25
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I took it from reading about it online that the book ended with an implied but not shown murder following the knife confrontation, leaving open the possibility that the murder did not, infact, occur.
#111
Posté 04 août 2012 - 04:27
LobselVith8
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Filament wrote...
I took it from reading about it online that the book ended with an implied but not shown murder following the knife confrontation, leaving open the possibility that the murder did not, infact, occur.
It just seems to make the scene pointless if he lived.
#112
Posté 04 août 2012 - 04:53
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It no longer matters, as I've finished it now.LobselVith8 wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
I haven't finished Asunder yet, so I suppose we'll see.
You don't avoid spoilers, I take it?
I suppose Lambert's death seems likely, which is a bit of a shame; the templars need some kind of face. It was, however, not at all shy about showing that the debate between the good guys was the mages vs. the Chantry, and the templars were clearly antagonistic, and mostly villainous, being portrayed as such in both depiction and thought. And Evangeline continued the pattern of "the only good templars are the ones who leave the Order."
#113
Posté 04 août 2012 - 05:04
LobselVith8
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Xilizhra wrote...
It no longer matters, as I've finished it now.
I suppose Lambert's death seems likely, which is a bit of a shame; the templars need some kind of face. It was, however, not at all shy about showing that the debate between the good guys was the mages vs. the Chantry, and the templars were clearly antagonistic, and mostly villainous, being portrayed as such in both depiction and thought. And Evangeline continued the pattern of "the only good templars are the ones who leave the Order."
As someone who strongly opposes the Chantry controlled Circles, I don't think the Chantry are any better than the templars. The Chantry preaches that mages are "cursed." Pharmond would have lost his humanity to the Rite of Tranquility due to the Chantry and the templars.
#114
Posté 04 août 2012 - 05:09
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Well, I'm certain you'll be able to oppose the Chantry as well as the templars, but the templars are far more likely to be the darkspawnesque adversaries in DA3. The Chantry will be foes of one's own choosing and not the game's plot making it so, as the templars will be.
#115
Posté 04 août 2012 - 05:28
TEWR
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LobselVith8 wrote...
Filament wrote...
I took it from reading about it online that the book ended with an implied but not shown murder following the knife confrontation, leaving open the possibility that the murder did not, infact, occur.
It just seems to make the scene pointless if he lived.
Having not read the book and only knowing the core details of it, I can't really comment on how it played out but... a confrontation without immediate resolution doesn't automatically become meaningless if Person A -- the one being confronted -- survives Person B's confrontation.
It's suspenseful, and suspense is good -- when done right. As I understand it, this is one of those "done right" types. More then that, it adds further information as to what's happening -- as I believe Asunder does, where Lambert is penning a missive to someone.
If he lived, I don't think it becomes pointless.
#116
Posté 04 août 2012 - 06:27
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That analogy is awful. A tiger has no relevance to the conflict. A better one would be:Nizaris1 wrote...
it is like saying "Iraq have weapon of mass destruction, USA have invade Iraq in search of that weapon....that is why you Muslim must being thrown into that tiger cage and defeat the tiger, if you cannot defeat the tiger, we will shoot you"
See?
It is all just paranoia by the Chantry, not all Mages are Tevinter, same like not all Muslims are Iraqis or Terrorists
"You are a muslim living in the West. We are going to purposelly introduce you to a group of extremists. If they manage to covince you to join the Jihad, then you have proven yourself a danger and we will come in and kill everyone."
And, honestly, I wouldn't have that many problems with this system. People also complained greatly about the japanese internment camps in the US but that is war for you.
So, yes, not all mages are just waiting for an opportunity to use blood magic to opress others. But many are and temptation preys at even the noblest mage.
Modifié par MisterJB, 04 août 2012 - 06:41 .
#117
Posté 04 août 2012 - 08:41
Silfren
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MisterJB wrote...
That analogy is awful. A tiger has no relevance to the conflict. A better one would be:Nizaris1 wrote...
it is like saying "Iraq have weapon of mass destruction, USA have invade Iraq in search of that weapon....that is why you Muslim must being thrown into that tiger cage and defeat the tiger, if you cannot defeat the tiger, we will shoot you"
See?
It is all just paranoia by the Chantry, not all Mages are Tevinter, same like not all Muslims are Iraqis or Terrorists
"You are a muslim living in the West. We are going to purposelly introduce you to a group of extremists. If they manage to covince you to join the Jihad, then you have proven yourself a danger and we will come in and kill everyone."
And, honestly, I wouldn't have that many problems with this system. People also complained greatly about the japanese internment camps in the US but that is war for you.
So, yes, not all mages are just waiting for an opportunity to use blood magic to opress others. But many are and temptation preys at even the noblest mage.
Oh please, let's NOT start defending the repugnancy of the U.S. in confining its own citizens to internment camps. There is NOTHING defensible about what we did, there. Saying "oh people complained but that's war for you" is a gross oversimplification of the racism and paranoia inherent in that injustice.
Your analogy bites, actually. The one about shooting people who fail to defend themselves from tigers is a better one, albeit sloppy, referring as it does to the Harrowing.
#118
Posté 04 août 2012 - 08:52
DPSSOC
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Nizaris1 wrote...
Gregoir said that magic must serve men, not rule over him, that is what Andraste said when she cast down TEVINTER IMPERIUM blah blah blah...then Irving said that is why Harrowing exist in which a test for the Mage to see if can defeat the demon...if the mage cannot defeat the demon Gregoir said the Templar must kill the mage...at Mage Origin Harrowing, it is totally NO RELATION at all with the Harrowing, It is a pure propaganda
Yeah that blah blah blah you left out is kind of important for context. Gregoire says:
Magic exists to serve man, and never to rule over him. Thus spoke the prophtet Andraste as she cast down the Tevinter Imperium, ruled by mages who had brought the world to the edge of ruin. You're magic is a gift, but it is also a curse, for demons of the dream realm - the Fade - are drawn to you, and seek to use you as a gateway into this world.
That is the line Irving is referring to when he says that is why the Harrowing exists. Not the entire thing just that line. Because demons are drawn to you the Harrowing was devised to weed out those who aren't strong enough to resist them. I'll give you it's not the best practice but it's not like it doesn't make sense.
Nizaris1 wrote...
It is all just paranoia by the Chantry, not all Mages are Tevinter, same like not all Muslims are Iraqis or Terrorists
Ok it's not paranoia, nor are the Chantry and the Templars Magephobic. Why? Because paranoia and phobias are inherrently irrational, where as the dangers presented by mages, and the heightened risk of possession, are very very real. A mage can, entirely by accident, kill a lot of people, it's the same way there are laws against homemade explosives. It's not because everyone who makes them is going to use them for illegal purposes, it's because if something goes wrong it's a danger to public safety. It'd be different if there were no basis for idea that demons are attracted to mages, or if doing harm with magic was actually impossible, but that's not the case.
#119
Guest_Nizaris1_*
Posté 04 août 2012 - 09:16
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MisterJB wrote..
And, honestly, I wouldn't have that many problems with this system.
People also complained greatly about the japanese internment camps in
the US but that is war for you.
"Everyday, new Mages are born in Thedas. Everyday, those who born dozen years ago comes into their power" - Cullen
Those Mages who born EVERYDAY no relation at all with Tevinter Imperium and Magisters. It is clear that those babies know nothing of Tevinter, blood magic or whatever about Tevinter Imperium. It is a natural phenomenon, some are born with magic, some are born with no magic.What the Chantry did is labeling all born with magic are the same like Magisters of Tevinter Imperium. They teach magic is evil, a curse, they condemned all who born mages. They believe those who born naturally a mage will become the same with Magisters of Tevinter Imperium.
it is like saying all who born Muslims will become Al Qaeda terrorist. All who born Japanese will doing kamikaze on USA ships. All who born German will become N.a.z.i. All who born black will become criminal and gangsta. All who born Italian will become mafia. All who born Chinese or Russian will become Communist. And so on.
There is no war. No war at all. Just because of USA have war and conflict with Iraq, it doesn't mean all Muslims are enemy of USA. Just because USA have war with Japan, doesn't mean all Japanese are USA enemy. There are Muslim and Japanese as well as other races and religious background who born in USA EVERYDAY.
You cannot simply detained Muslims in USA just because they are born as Muslim or convert, justifying it by saying "You are Muslim, therefore you are the same with Al Qaeda, so we have a right to detain you". Or you cannot detained all who born black out of fear when they grow up they become gangsta and criminal. "You are born black, we have a right to detain you because in the future you might rob a bank"
How come the Chantry single out every born mages who born EVERYDAY all over Thedas as NATURAL phenomenon are the same with Tevinter? That is so wrong.
Tevinter Imperium is Tevinter Imperium. The same like Iraq is Iraq, Al Qaeda is Al Qaeda, Japan is Japan, China is China, Russia is Russia. Israel is Israel. Doesn't mean born Muslims in USA are Iraqis or Al Qaeda, Japanese born in USA are of Japan, Chinese born in USA are of China, Jews born in USA are of Israel.
I am a born Muslim too, and i am from South East Asia, i am not Arab, i am not Iraqi, I am not Al Qaeda, i am not Taliban...you can't detain me in USA accusing me being terrorist, Al Qaeda or Taliban, because i am not. And i am not Al Qaeda or Taliban would be. If you do detained me just because i am a Muslim, and suspected Terrorist, i will call my embassy there, and there will be "international diplomatic conflict" between my country and yours.
And so the mages who born all over Thedas EVERYDAY, they are not Tevinter, not Tevinter Magisters, the Chantry cannot single out all of them as Tevinter Magisters would be.
Modifié par Nizaris1, 04 août 2012 - 09:19 .
#120
Posté 04 août 2012 - 09:24
MisterJB
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I will defend it.Silfren wrote...
Oh please, let's NOT start defending the repugnancy of the U.S. in confining its own citizens to internment camps. There is NOTHING defensible about what we did, there. Saying "oh people complained but that's war for you" is a gross oversimplification of the racism and paranoia inherent in that injustice.
While racial prejudice and self interest did help enforce that law, it was still a necessary precaution in times of war.
#121
Posté 04 août 2012 - 09:26
LobselVith8
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Nizaris1 wrote...
"Everyday, new Mages are born in Thedas. Everyday, those who born dozen years ago comes into their power" - Cullen
Cullen did tell my apostate Hawke that mages aren't like Hawke and Cullen, they can't be treated as people and are weapons. There are also the Andrastians who murder mages because they blame them for things that go bad, because that's the environment the anti-mage rhetoric of the Andrastian Chantry has created. Not to mention how Keili and Bethany feel for being "cursed" by the Maker; contrast their depression with Merrill embracing magic, and not raised among people who didn't vilify magic.
#122
Guest_Nizaris1_*
Posté 04 août 2012 - 09:26
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DPSSOC wrote...
Magic exists to serve man, and never to rule over him. Thus spoke the prophtet Andraste as she cast down the Tevinter Imperium, ruled by mages who had brought the world to the edge of ruin. You're magic is a gift, but it is also a curse, for demons of the dream realm - the Fade - are drawn to you, and seek to use you as a gateway into this world.
Still, the first statement about Tevinter Imperium ruled by Mages have NOTHING to do with demon in the Fade and Harrowing.
It is like , "Iraq have weapon of Mass destruction, USA invade Iraq searching for that weapon...and there is a tiger in the cage, that is why you Muslims must go into the tiger cage and kill that tiger..."
The first statement is a propaganda to JUSTIFY what they doing to mages, the second statement have no relation with the first.
Modifié par Nizaris1, 04 août 2012 - 09:29 .
#123
Posté 04 août 2012 - 09:31
MisterJB
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Nizaris1: Discussing current real world policies as well as races will only get us both banned. If you are really interested in doing so, I suggest you pm me.
Personally, I feel you are a well intentioned person but also very naive.
Personally, I feel you are a well intentioned person but also very naive.
#124
Guest_Nizaris1_*
Posté 04 août 2012 - 09:39
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1. Andraste cast down Tevinter Imperium ruled by Mages who brought the world into ruin
2. There is demon in the Fade, apprentice must kill the demon in the Fade or be killed by Templar
What is the relation? No relation at all.
Can't you guys see that it is a very carefully construct propaganda to justifying the act?
Killing demon in the Fade is out of question, any trained and skilled mage can kill demon in the Fade.
2. There is demon in the Fade, apprentice must kill the demon in the Fade or be killed by Templar
What is the relation? No relation at all.
Can't you guys see that it is a very carefully construct propaganda to justifying the act?
Killing demon in the Fade is out of question, any trained and skilled mage can kill demon in the Fade.
#125
Posté 04 août 2012 - 09:39
DPSSOC
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Nizaris1 wrote...
DPSSOC wrote...
Magic exists to serve man, and never to rule over him. Thus spoke the prophtet Andraste as she cast down the Tevinter Imperium, ruled by mages who had brought the world to the edge of ruin. You're magic is a gift, but it is also a curse, for demons of the dream realm - the Fade - are drawn to you, and seek to use you as a gateway into this world.
Still, the first statement about Tevinter Imperium ruled by Mages have NOTHING to do with demon in the Fade and Harrowing.
Sure it does. "Magic exists to serve man," you are going into a place where magic reigns, where strength of will is your greatest weapon. If you cannot master your own will than how can you ever hope to master your magical abilities. You will forever be a slave to your own power because you lack the ability to control it. Like the apprentice in the library who lights himself on fire. The Harrowing pits your will against that of a demon, by passing you demonstrate that you possess the strength of will to not only resist demons but also to master the more advanced magics of the Circle.
