193 réponses à ce sujet

[android654]

^^You're starting to grow on me quite a bit

[quote]tklivory wrote...

I've always harbored the thought that the true Space Diaspora would be impossible without modifications to our bodies (of varying levels). Ethics will always change according to the shifts of society, and knowing where we'll be when the eyes Android posted are possible (or, for example, the kind of body modification hinted at in DE:HR) is difficult to judge from here. Perhaps in one hundred years, people of the era will accept body modification so readily that blindness would be eliminated (as one example).[/quote]

Buzz Aldrin has been noted as having his bi-polar disorder impacted by his time in space. Not to mention the host of illnesses associated with temporary space travel. Which is why we have Space Medicine[/quote] to adresses the issues of merely being in space. If we were to live on a space station or any planet who's composition isn't identical to this one would require modifications to our bodies. Whether its pharmacuticals or cybernetuc augmentations, we'd have to add something to make up for the difference of what's missing from that environment.

[quote]Anyway, our bodies are made/designed/evolved to fit Terran conditions. At some point, we will outgrow adequate resources in the planet (what the point is, of course, is widely debated) and need to either institute measures viewed as draconian by many currently in charge (Chinese birth rations, anyone?) or we will outgrow Earth and move on. So the huge battle o' ethics is yet to come...[/quote]

Finite resources is a real problem and a reality we'll have to face eventually. Do you eat anything that isn't meat or produce? If you do, then you undoubtedly eating synthetic organisms in one form or another. We've been manipulating organisms, making new ones and replicating them for GMO fueled foods for decades and in many ways. it combats the finite food crops we have that are, for one reason or another, aren't enough to feed the whole planet. If we keep reproducing like we are, we'll eventually have to monitor birth control or try and branch out to an uninhabited place on this planet, or another in order to keep the species alive.

The use of thechnologies like this has an unlimited potential to be the best advancement in medicine one can imagine. Making the blind see, making the lame walk, making the mute speak. Investing time and money into cybernetics and life extension we can quite literally make miracles. Which is what we've been doing bit by bit since society began. I think shunning that shows a real lack of concern for people who are really limited with their physical choices in life.


So yes, making something like this


Or this


is really the most ethical use of math and science short of inventing magic.

Modifié par android654, 04 août 2012 - 07:01 .

[Dave of Canada]

Jestina wrote...

Well if your thinking is limited by your religious/philosophical beliefs and/or firmly grounded in the stance that nothing evolves, then yes.

What? What the hell does religious or philosphical beliefs have anything to do with it?

[Gotholhorakh]

The working mechanisms of your mind relying on a shonky facsimile produced by human engineering? Might give it a miss.


If anyone has any idea wtf a mind actually is and can show you one within the next 50 years, it will be as much as we could hope for.

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 04 août 2012 - 08:34 .

[android654]

Rubios wrote...

jollyorigins wrote...

Just by looking at this thread, this is going to end in some giant scale war with robots against humans isn't it?

Yes, and we can clearly see who is going to start it.

Well let's see. On camp says, "we can use this to fix things, improve upon the limitations of biology, and perhaps increase the quality of life for the whole planet." The other camp says, "this is immoral and wrong!"

Modifié par android654, 04 août 2012 - 09:54 .

[Corker]

GF2045 wrote...
The emergence and widespread use of affordable android "avatars" controlled by a "brain-computer" interface. Coupled with related technologies “avatars’ will give people a number of new features: ability to work in dangerous environments, perform rescue operations, travel in extreme situations etc.

Avatar components will be used in medicine for the rehabilitation of fully or partially disabled patients giving them prosthetic limbs or recover lost senses.

This is doable.  This is, in fact, being done:
U Pitt researchers give monkey brain control of a robot arm.  That's real.  There are wires in the monkey's head to pick up its neural signals. 

DARPA's brain-controlled arm.  This isn't the DECA "Luke" arm that's controlled with muscle twitches; there's implants that pick up nerve signals and translate them into robot arm motion.

General Dynamics' Petman, building on their Big Dog work (also for DARPA), has an uncannily human gait.

I'm less familiar with the Japanese work, but they've gone a lot with "realistic looking" robots.  This one walks stiffly compared to the Petman but is more human-ish.

The fact that none of the people involved in those projects is on the staff list for "GF2045" is, um, notable.

The rest of their to-do list I don't buy for a minute.  But some form of teleoperations or telepresence via neural implants is definitely on the horizon.

[TheMufflon]

Elton John is dead wrote...

Death is natural

Smallpox is natural. Can't say I miss it, though.

[TheMufflon]

android654 wrote...

So yes, making something like this

It feels comforting to know that our future brains will have the proper NFPA 704 labeling. That they will, apparently, be radioactive is less so.

[Jestina]

Dave of Canada wrote...
What? What the hell does religious or philosphical beliefs have anything to do with it?

It's no big secret that religious beliefs have impeded scientific thought. Look at Galileo as an example.

[RedArmyShogun]

android654 wrote...

Rubios wrote...

jollyorigins wrote...

Just by looking at this thread, this is going to end in some giant scale war with robots against humans isn't it?

Yes, and we can clearly see who is going to start it.

Well let's see. On camp says, "we can use this to fix things, improve upon the limitations of biology, and perhaps increase the quality of life for the whole planet." The other camp says, "this is immoral and wrong!"

No its more like the other side doesn't want to sell its body and to some of us our souls to a machine. There are biological and technological goals on going such as space exploration that won't force us into some crazy ass matrix crap.

Also it is immoral and wrong

[android654]

TheMufflon wrote...

android654 wrote...

So yes, making something like this

It feels comforting to know that our future brains will have the proper NFPA 704 labeling. That they will, apparently, be radioactive is less so.

If we were to seek immortality, or life extension, extending into hundreds of years, this would be the only way to do it. Finding a way to keep the brain alive and fully functional outside of the original host body, and applying it to one or a series of prosthetic bodies as needed over time.

I think the nuclear label is to make it look cool. However, if we were to use a battery source that is intended to keep a body moving for centuries at a time, lithium ion just wont cut it.

Confess-A-Bear wrote...
No its more like the other side doesn't want to sell its body and to some of us our souls to a machine. There are biological and technological goals on going such as space exploration that won't force us into some crazy ass matrix crap.

Also it is immoral and wrong

It's not about you. It's about the species as a whole. Do you have a better solution to repairng functions of people like Professor Hawking who have full body paralysis? How about people with missing limbs?

Um, genius... anyone living in space, the Moon or Mars for an extended period of time would have their body ravaged by the simple fact that they're living in a place alien to the organism. So they'll either have to force pharamas into their system which has an unknown list of consequences, or use augmentations of some kind. Either way, extended space travel means having to become inhuman in some manner.

Prove it.

[GodWood]

Meh, you guys can continue dying like suckers if you want.

If it can be guranteed it's my consciousness being uploaded and not just a copy then sign me up.

[android654]

Corker wrote...

GF2045 wrote...
The emergence and widespread use of affordable android "avatars" controlled by a "brain-computer" interface. Coupled with related technologies “avatars’ will give people a number of new features: ability to work in dangerous environments, perform rescue operations, travel in extreme situations etc.

Avatar components will be used in medicine for the rehabilitation of fully or partially disabled patients giving them prosthetic limbs or recover lost senses.

This is doable.  This is, in fact, being done:
U Pitt researchers give monkey brain control of a robot arm.  That's real.  There are wires in the monkey's head to pick up its neural signals. 

DARPA's brain-controlled arm.  This isn't the DECA "Luke" arm that's controlled with muscle twitches; there's implants that pick up nerve signals and translate them into robot arm motion.

General Dynamics' Petman, building on their Big Dog work (also for DARPA), has an uncannily human gait.

I'm less familiar with the Japanese work, but they've gone a lot with "realistic looking" robots.  This one walks stiffly compared to the Petman but is more human-ish.

The fact that none of the people involved in those projects is on the staff list for "GF2045" is, um, notable.

The rest of their to-do list I don't buy for a minute.  But some form of teleoperations or telepresence via neural implants is definitely on the horizon.

This makes me think of the evolution of prosthetics.

We began with the hook, the plaster hand, the plastic/fiberglass hand, then this.


It basically responds to electrical impulses, and is built to --what is now-- near perfect biomimetic specifications. Meaning it copies the movement and dexterity of the human hand. In time, one will be designed that can response to the nerve endings in the remainder of the amputated limb or directly into the brain. The next big thing to come after perfect biomimetics and cerbral interfacing, is the simulation of sensation. I think it will be amazing if we can, not only return limbs to victims of accidents, but also allow them the ability to feel again. It's a really important thing that just about all of us take for granted. Yet it would be heartbreaking to one day realize that your body doesn't function as intended any longer.

Anyone who thinks a man/machine hybrid will never happen hasn't been paying attention.

Modifié par android654, 04 août 2012 - 11:34 .

[TJPags]

Confess-A-Bear wrote...

No its more like the other side doesn't want to sell its body and to some of us our souls to a machine. There are biological and technological goals on going such as space exploration that won't force us into some crazy ass matrix crap.

Also it is immoral and wrong

And why do you believe that anyone would "force" you to sell your body into this technology?  Seriously, just like the argument that this will be "only for the rich" people ascribe the worst motives to ideas they don't like.  Who's to say that space exploration won't find some oasis of paradise in space that would be left "only to the rich", or would require everyone to pick up and leave earth, like it or not?

As to immoral and wrong . . . .why is it either?

[mousestalker]

Between advances in prosthetics as discussed above and advances life prolongation and quality of the same, it looks like the safest possible investment for your extended life whether biological or android is....lube.

Good to know.

:innocent:

Modifié par mousestalker, 04 août 2012 - 11:36 .

[Chromie]

Confess-A-Bear wrote...
No its more like the other side doesn't want to sell its body and to some of us our souls to a machine. There are biological and technological goals on going such as space exploration that won't force us into some crazy ass matrix crap.

Also it is immoral and wrong

So souls are real now?

[android654]

mousestalker wrote...

Between advances in prosthetics as discussed above and advances life prolongation and quality of the same, it looks like the safest possible investment for your extended life whether biological or android is....lube.

Good to know.

:innocent:

You should always have lube handy

[naughty99]

Confess-A-Bear wrote...
No its more like the other side doesn't want to sell its body and to some of us our souls to a machine. There are biological and technological goals on going such as space exploration that won't force us into some crazy ass matrix crap.

Also it is immoral and wrong

I think the concept of digitizing the human brain or consciousness and downloading it into a computer is probably not going to happen by 2045, if ever.

However, with advances in neural interfaces, etc., perhaps it would become possible for people who are paralyzed or otherwise incapacitated to interact with the world through the use of some sort of device that interprets brain activity. From there, it is not such a leap to preserve someone's brain who has been injured or suffering from a chronic disease.

Would you consider it to be morally wrong to give someone a second chance at life by having their brain preserved in a way that they can still interact with the world?

Modifié par naughty99, 05 août 2012 - 12:10 .

[Maria Caliban]

The idea that a person exists as a completely separate being from their body is a religious one. It's typically refereed to as the soul.

What we call our mind is an extension of our brain, but it's not just the brain. It's also our senses and our endocrine system. Even if we could transfer our brain into another ape, you'd see some profound differences in thought and behavioral patterns. Sticking it 'in a robot' would actually acerbate the problem.

You'd need to create a fluid system that mimics the biochemical reactions in the body perfectly.

It would actually be a much better bet to create a clone, transfer the brain, and figure out how to 'anti-age' the brain. Of course, if you can anti-age the brain, why not do it to the entire body?

[android654]

Maria Caliban wrote...

The idea that a person exists as a completely separate being from their body is a religious one. It's typically refereed to as the soul.

What we call our mind is an extension of our brain, but it's not just the brain. It's also our senses and our endocrine system. Even if we could transfer our brain into another ape, you'd see some profound differences in thought and behavioral patterns. Sticking it 'in a robot' would actually acerbate the problem.

You'd need to create a fluid system that mimics the biochemical reactions in the body perfectly.

It would actually be a much better bet to create a clone, transfer the brain, and figure out how to 'anti-age' the brain. Of course, if you can anti-age the brain, why not do it to the entire body?

The body is still flesh. It'll still wither and die at some point. The only solution for long term use would be a synthetic solution. Either way, it's a moot point until we begin experimentations with keeping the brain alive outside of the host body. We have to figure that out first before we address the issue of whether or not it is the same exact person after the fact.

[TheMufflon]

android654 wrote...

I think the nuclear label is to make it look cool.

Probably. I was remarking that it had quite the opposite effect: a commonplace symbol like the fire diamond on a what is ment to be a piece of futuristic technology. I found it amusing in a "science may create an artificial brain, but I'll be damned if they mess with standardised labeling" kinda way. Also, the symbol is technically incorrect.

On a different note, I doubt individual nuclear reactors would be they way to go. With all the shielding necessary to keep it from potentially interfering with biological tissue and electronic circuitry it would be too bulky, even if we assume some more efficient way of harnessing nuclear fission (i.e. one that doesn't involve boiling huge amounts of water and running it through turbines). There are also large scale safety issues: while each individual may only carry a small amout of active material the fact that it's a non-renewable energy source means that eventually it will need to be exchanged: in with new fissile material and out with fission products. This means there will be a lot of shipping and handling of large quantities of active material, which poses a safety risk.

[TheMufflon]

Maria Caliban wrote...

You'd need to create a fluid system that mimics the biochemical reactions in the body perfectly.

Why? What inherent properties exist in a fluid system that cannot be emulated in a electronic system? People simulate biochemical reactions all the time. And that is assuming we even need emulation at that level of hardware: I've seen no compelling evidence that a brain is the only type of hardware capable of supporting a mind. Certainly the mind would be affected by the type of hardware it runs on, but why should we assume it is wholly dependent on it?

[slimgrin]

TheMufflon wrote...

 I've seen no compelling evidence that a brain is the only type of hardware capable of supporting a mind.

Proof. I want it.