79 réponses à ce sujet

[indome]

What kind of arrogant moron posts spoilers in a forum clearly marked "NO SPOILERS ALLOWED," as if others cared so much to hear its insipid opinions as to think that it is above the rules?

Or maybe it is simply a cry for real human attention that drives it to complain about a video game it has already returned on a forum dedicated to said game. Does it also watch movies, then proceed to complain on no spoiler movie forums with people who have not watched said movie, about all the minor plot details that bothered its little mind?

Protip: there is another forum where it can freely post all the spoilers it wants at
http://social.biowar...tegory/66/index

Modifié par indome, 20 décembre 2009 - 08:17 .

[ComTrav]

DAO was the least-buggy day 1 PC release I've bought in the past few years.



(This might tell you more about the sorry state of PC gaming then DAO, though.)

[Harcken]

I agree with you on two points: story and weapons and armor. The story, for the most part was weak, and like you said I felt the main narrative consisted of a bunch of side-quests, it didn't feel like a main quest. Models in general, not just weapons and armor were sorely lacking, as well.



As to your alignment complaint, I strongly disagree. The only reason you would choose to be good or evil is so you can get points that tell you if your good or evil? I especially hate alignment systems because they usually restrict you, rewarding someone that goes full good or full evil. Whereas in a game like DA, I made the decisions I did because I wanted to. In Mass Effect I had to say, Okay, I'll do 1 paragon and 1 renegade for the save game," it pigeon-holed me into one of those roles for Shephard.



I thought the party interaction was great as opposed to other games, as I felt like by the end of the game my characters and I had been through a lot; whereas in Mass Effect it felt like I had two conversations with the characters over the whole journey. Bugs, I rarely encountered, three classes I'm fine with, there are a lot of combinations that make playing each class twice interesting. I liked most of the talents, and body language isn't a must for me.

[blazin130791]

the allingment thing is good, its meant to blur the lines between good and evil. you decide whether destroying the ashes of andraste is an evil thing to do or if you just think andraste is some dead girl.

[Mondo_]

Sounds like you returned a game you liked, way to set ridicoulous standards. And Darth Trenton I had a bug free experience except for the bugs that both the 360 and PC had.

[andysdead]

Poyzinblud wrote...

It's not a TERRIBLE game, but it's far underwhelming to what I was expecting. I'll admit, I set my sights a bit high when I first bought the game, but I had set the bar about where I felt EA told me to. Everything everywhere tells me that this game is excellent, it rocks, etc; I set the bar high, wound up disappointed, and went on with my life.

you can't please all the people all the time...

[Realmzmaster]

The OP is entitled to their opinion. The game is not for everyone. I have no problem with the game not having alignments. The system is not meant to have D & D alignments. The approval system makes more sense, because it depends on how you inteact with your companions and your responses to situations. The approval system also takes into account your companion's prejudices and beliefs. Sten thinks all magic is dangerous and needs to be controlled.

His approval goes up or down depending on your response.

How many classes do you actually need. All classes are variations of the basic four: Warrior, mage, thief and healer.

Yes, D & D has lots of variations on classes and allows dual classing, multi classing etc. But for a computer/console game why would you need that many variations?

The whole purpose of DA is to recruit any army, because your character does not have one. So you want the option to take on a whole army of darkspawn led by the Arch Demon with your character and three companions. (immediately roll the your Journey ends here screen).

All the side quests are optional. Finding the urn, cleaning the mage tower are part of the main quest. You do not have to do any of the side quests.

As far as the PC game being buggy, I have not encountered any problems. I am on my second playthrough with no issues. I have played the game on a console. The PC gives a superior playing experience.

DA is one of the best CRPGs (IMHO) to come out in a long time.

[mousestalker]

Ok, you didn't like the game. It happens. There are games out there that everyone in the world loved except for me. But why come here and share the news with us? Your opinion is not going to alter anyone here's opinion of the game. I seriously doubt it will change anyone at Bioware's mind as well.



So why this thread?

[DarkSpiral]

Thread hijacking strikes again.

I have a funny feeling this thread is getting moved as soon as a dev or mod see it, but let's see if we can move it back to the original point here, at least.



1) The lack of alignment was a selling point for me. I prefer to decide how evil I am. Dungeons and Dragons invented the concept of alignments, and even they are moving away from them. Oh, and I don't count Star Wars; the Force only polarizes actual Force users. That not really alignment.

2) I didn't have an issue here. The classes cover all the main MMO roles adequately. Not that you aren't correct OP, they are somewhat generic, but it hasn't been an issue for most people.

3) You're probably right about the armor sets. But the arrows I never used anyway. The slight amount of extra damage you got wasn't worth hoarding them, imo.

4) I was personally happy to see crafting go the way of the dodo. You complain about the sidequests and the tasks given by the various races taking away from your progress in tge main plot, but how would gathering resources and crafting not do the same thing?

5) You do have a point with the lack of reaction to having been intimate with any of the romance options, breaking it off, and then slipping into friendship without any kind of awkwardness. This however, is a limitation of the medium, not bad planning. Scripting entire sets of dialogue for 4 characters centered around the fact you USED to be lovers would consume time and cost money that in all likelihood simply wasn't available.

6) No real argument here. It's probably the most talked about topic in the forums. Dozens of threads about bugs,

7) Of all your points, this is the one I truly don't understand. The game's plot followed a pretty standard formula. Would thegame really have been MORE interesting if any of the races that your had treaties for had simply read over the treaty, given you a friendly slap on the back, and said "You bet. We'll be ready immediatly!" That would be boring, I think.

8) No argument here either. While it wasn't something I personally cared about, enough people have mentioned it before.

9) Seriously? Marvel Alliance 2? Ok.

10) It's not a problem, it's a deliberate decision. We knew ahead of time that there wasn't going to be any jumping or swimming.

[Whailor]

Some points are valid but not all. I like the quests, I've been bored to hell with so many games lately where are not enough quests. I wanted to get the game finally which would be like good ol' Baldur's Gate series and this is closest. Not exactly it but still close then anything else.



There are bugs but not with the quests you mention. I was able to complete them all, you really need to read quest text and also the appropriate codex entry if the quest has such. Only slight issue I had with the quests is that at times when you complete the quest and journal says that it's done, the NPC still may have the quest icon above his head, like Slim Goudry in Denerim. Or sometimes you finish the quest chain and you had more then one path in it, you chose one and finished it but second option may still remain in the journal (like king quest in Orzammar, if you're diplomatic enough you can "play along" with both sides all the way until the end, but when you finish one branch of the quest, second one stays in journal). Or when you advance some quest not in order, that is, skip one NPC and speak with next one (like Wynne's quest, you may skip the fella in dalish camp and complete the quest and he will have this quest icon hovering above his head regardless). But other then that, so far I've finished every single quest I've got so not too bad.



Bugs, yes, there are those. Some gameplay issues too, like equipment related - I agree that there should me MORE MODELS for armors and weapons. All massive armors look the same, with just different texture. Yeah, it's kind of lame but not game breaking. Same with weapons, there's the certain selection and then that's it, only difference is in materials. And of course the fact that some items don't even appear in the game, either because of the bug or because of the randomness. Like Chevalier's armor - I've never got the whole darn set! I can buy one piece and other pieces may or may not appear here or there and at times they don't appear many times in a row. There are few "sets" which I've never had as a set because of either this randomness or bugs. Blast it, if it's a set, put it in game and don't mess with it, as I see it. But other then that, it works so it's OK.



Alignment, I like it. I never really liked the system in many other games where it's immediately and obviously clear whether one's "good" or "evil". It's never clear. It's supposed to be blurry and it is determined by your choices and your actions. I am a "good" guy but I am no "do gooder". My chars do what they feel is right and this doesn't always match the world's view on what's right and my char doesn't care about it. Most of his actions may be considered good, but there are also actions what would make others raise their eyebrows, scream out from horror or run for the hills.



In the end, the point is that this game has it's share of issues, sure, but none so far have been gamebreaking for me and I've had fun. Heck I've played it through several times and in many cases I even restarted in mid-campaign because I wanted to try something different suddenly. That's why I always save one game at the start of each area and keep it, so that I could replay the whole area if I wished so. As more custom content gets added (sure it may take time as the toolset for this game is not exactly user friendly and easy to use but there are smart people out there who'll figure it out) it'll get only better. So the way I see it, it's quite OK and it can only get better so I definitely won't return my copy. But, good luck to you OP, your choice is your choice.

[Mnemnosyne]

Poyzinblud wrote...

You see, friend, I have no problem with obstacles in the game, but I'd like them to be optional, and to instead give bonuses/make things easier.

For instance: You have the option of enlisting the help of Mages, Templars, Reavers, and the Jews (Shalome, all). You can do storyline quests to help them out and have them fighting by your side in the end, OR you can skip those quests, NOT have them part of the army, and have to take on more troops by yourself.

This complaint is bafflingly ludicrous.  You're essentially saying "I want to skip the game."  Cause those aren't optional sidequests, those are the main part of the game.  Just like going to each planet and retrieving the Star Map was the main part of KOTOR, or the missions in Mass Effect.  It's what you have to do to progress.  I mean, if you don't gather people for your army, what, you show up to face a horde of 50,000 darkspawn with your party and like, a couple thousand soldiers?  You'd get slaughtered before you got near the Archdemon.

Ironically, the part you claim to not mind, healing Eamon, is the main part that doesn't jive with the story and does seem like a tacked-on sidequest, because there's nothing Eamon does that Bann Teagan couldn't do if he inherited the title after Eamon's death.

Modifié par Koyasha, 20 décembre 2009 - 11:38 .

[B33ker]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

The lot of your problems can be summed up in one sentence: "Gaming on a PC"
 

He's playing it on a 360, way to read his post and pay attention.

I'm playing on a PC and have had ZERO issues from day 1 while  having a much better looking game with superior controls over the console versions.

Oh and I can use the toolkit. 

[SeanMurphy2]

I think that is reasonable feedback. It seems like you had positive and negative feelings about the game.



I most disagree with you about the alignment system. I think it makes Bioware write weaker quests and dialogue if they always have to structure it as good/neutral/evil.



I partially agree with you about the mid game storyline structure. Ostager was intense and got me more interested in Loghain. But then there is a shift in focus to the 4-5 mid game locations that have their own unrelated problems going on.



Though I understand they have to introduce those areas for lore reasons, to revisit origins and it is standard midgame Bioware structure. I have no idea how they could have done it differently.

[Avaraen]

I'm playing on a PC and have had ZERO issues from day 1 while  having a much better looking game with superior controls over the console versions.

Oh and I can use the toolkit. 

QFT... I'm playing an unpatched PC game and have had one major bug in three full playthroughs and several partial playthroughs, and even that was sort of an anomaly in terms of what my character was doing (I deliberately didn't take the back alley quest, but then ended up killing a pack of bandits in one, which put the quest in my log, but the other bandit packs never spawned on that playthrough). The only other bugs I can think of that impact the game in a meaningful way are the ones with the ending slideshow text not always matching up with what a character has done in-game.

Re: the OP, it sounds like someone set unrealistic expectations for a computer game and needs to keep in mind that no game is going to match their inner "ultimate game" ideal, and DA is an exceptional game given current gaming technology. I won't deny there are some valid points in the OP, such as the lackluster nature of some of the specialisations, the dearth of interesting gear for rogues and mages, and the silliness of having "sex scenes" in underwear. However, returning a game and citing things such as lack of swimmable water and too much content (too many sidequests? seriously?) as unacceptable flaws does nothing but undermine your valid points.

IMO, the most valid point of discussion in the OP was with regard to alignment systems. Personally, I am very glad Bioware got away from the D&D style of alignment. All an alignment system does is promote metagaming and unrealistic character choices by forcing characters to adhere to arbitrary good/evil or lawful/chaotic choices. I shouldn't have to play an erratic, irrational character in order to maintain neutrality so I can advance as a Druid. A character's moral compass (or lack thereof) is more than enough "reason" to do or not do a specific thing - let players write their own characters, rather than have developers assign motivation to an action and assume that a character is doing something in accordance with a specific alignment. If that isn't sufficient, the approval system in DA can substitute for an alignment system to an extent - figure out who you want to please in your party and make decisions in accordance with their approval.

[Archonsg]

About playing on the PC version;
I simply love the looks I see on the faces of friends playing the on consoles versions when I show them I can respec myself and my companions, show off the Blond or the Trailer version of Lelianna / Morrigan and Sten, and point out that sooner or later someone will come out with awesome player made modules that they won't have access to.
As that Master Card add would say, "Priceless!"

PC gamer and proud of it.


ps: Oh yes, as for the Alignnment System that D&D / AD&D uses, Sten would say " You can't simply say a person  is Lawful good and throughout his entire life not lie, cheat or do anything that would otherwise put himself above others.

Modifié par Archonsg, 21 décembre 2009 - 01:16 .

[Beerfish]

Please do a minute amount of research on any future game you purchase. Who gives a fig about why you didn't like it. Just another in a long line of monumentally long whines complaining about every single detail under the sun. Why people feel the need to do this is beyond me. If I don't like something it's meh, this is crap and then on to the next thing.

[DPSSOC]

Poyzinblud wrote...

1. Your Alignment - Minor Spoilers
Unlike Star Wars, or Mass Effect, Dragon Age has no alignment; it only has the rating of how much your characters LIKE you. While there's the distinct advantage of not actually having to classify your character as 'good' or 'evil', it occasionally blurs the line between what good and evil actually IS. Why should I NOT pour Dragon's Blood into the Urn of Sacred Ash? Why shouldn't I kill a bandit instead of letting them run free? 
This also means that there's no specialities for being good/evil. In Knights of the Old Republic, your alignment pitted you with the class advancement you would choose; Jedi class or Sith class, and it made a really big (and awesome) difference. I see no reason why alignment shouldn't be put in and given some bearing.

The game is meant to be morally ambiguous and the reason for giving it no bearing is simple, nobody's that basic.  By not taking alignment into account you're given the option to play how you want not how will net the best bonuses.

Poyzinblud wrote...

7. Storyline - SPOILERS
The storyline was riveting-- to a point. You want to fight Loghain, you want to fight the Darkspawn Blight! Sensational! If you're Human, you want to kill Arl Howe, too! Yay for having enemies; I'm sold!
But then, I find that I'm sent on SIDEQUEST after SIDEQUEST that each turned into their own mega-chain of quests that became intolerable.
"We need you to revive Arl Eamon!" I was sold. Find the Urn of Sacred Ash, and maybe the Supermage to save the Arl's wife from needing to be sacrificed. This was fine! I was on it like white on rice! It was number 1 & 2 on my to-do list, and I was ready to haul butt.
I arrive to the Mage's Tower and find myself put into a complete and utter daze. I have about 6-7 quests needed to find this damn Mage, and the FADE?! Oh dear, I wish I had the option to just give up and succumb to the mediocrity of forced puzzles and sidestepping puzzles.
But I continued and made it to... The forest. What's this? I can't pass? The ELVES need help now?! I don't care about the Elves, I don't care about Werewolves! Let me get to this damn Urn and leave me be! But unfortunately for me, I'm required to help the pointy-eared bastards out and pretend like I don't want their people slaughtered so I can loot their valuables.
SO, I get THAT done, and I make my way to the next town, where I can uncover a conspiracy and go to the REAL village where the MOUNTAIN is where I can get the urn to revive the Arl that I wouldn't mind seeing fall into a coffin by now. What do I end up seeing? ANOTHER SIDEQUEST! Cultists looking for my help! Isn't there a scenic route in this game where I can bypass the sidequests in favor of getting the king better?

You sir are THICK.  You are TOLD to go to Denerim and talk to Genitivi, and even if you miss that it tells you in your JOURNAL to go to Denerim and talk to Genitivi.  The Mage Tower and Forest aren't side-quests they're two of the 4 main quests you get before you even know Eamon is sick.  I'm not trying to be mean spirited about this but you can't complain about the story taking too long to reach the goal because you can't follow instructions.

Modifié par DPSSOC, 21 décembre 2009 - 01:29 .

[Stuffy38]

You completed a good chunk of the game and you were still able to return it? I'm amazed. Did you get a full refund or only partial?

[Nuematic]

Quit complaining and yes the 360 version has issues also such as area does not load or freezes at certain points. As for pc problems everyones pc is different and remember it is always wise to go by recommended requirements.



Recommended Specifications

CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad 2.4Ghz Processor or equivalent

RAM: 4 GB (Vista) or 2 GB (XP)

Video: ATI 3850 512 MB or greater

NVIDIA 8800GTS 512 MB or greater

DVD ROM (Physical copy)

20 GB HD space



Also remeber it requires a bigger amd cpu to an intel one reading that you pretty much want a amd x2 at 3 ghz or better. This is reason i bought it for the 360 instead myself, becuase my pc would dog on this game. Pretty much need a newer pc with all the bells and whistles for this game.

[Trogloditius]

I thought the OP made some good points, if a little exaggerated IMO.



Bioware games have some endemic flaws (at least since they started marking 3D games), and for me the class systems, loot variation and (contextual) animations are right up there with the things I wish they would work on more.



The Fade section in the mage's tower I also found rather irritating, not least because having played it once, on all subsequent play throughs it's just something you want to be over as quickly as possible. Just bad design that part.



But the storyline and everything was plain awesome. I get the strong impression that the writers have been carrying Bioware games for a while now. Anywho, if Dragon Age goes into a series like ME, then maybe critical feedback will help improve the next game...? Well, we can hope.

[Vormaerin]

Because no one will make the game he does want if he never tells anyone what he does and doesn't like? He's not ranting, calling the devs names, or otherwise being obnoxious.

[grevinilvic]

way too many people complain here about dragon age . is it the best game ever made ? for 60$ its a great game . any game company can not make everyone happy they do their best to tell a story and make it fun to play. like beerfish said do some home work. try to stay away from the hype . if you research the company and their previous games you get a good idea how it will be. a tv add ect... is not a good way to buy games you set your self up for dissapointment. we have all done it and been mad we waisted the loot on a bad game. ive blown more than 60$ and gotten less for it , ive got my moneys worth and with add ons ill get a few more fun hrs playing a great game for60 $

[grevinilvic]

p.s if you dont like the advice i or any one else gives you here do us a favor go back to school learn how to make a game and make the perfect game for your self , cause you certainly wont make every gamer happy .

[Ulicus]

poyzinblud wrote...
While there's the distinct advantage of not actually having to classify your character as 'good' or 'evil', it occasionally blurs the line between what good and evil actually IS.

Yeah, that's the point. Abandoning the "sliding alignment" system was a bold move on BioWare's part and a huge step in the right direction.

poyzinblud wrote...
Why should I NOT pour Dragon's Blood into the Urn of Sacred Ash? Why shouldn't I kill a bandit instead of letting them run free?

I dunno, man. Why shouldn't you mug an old lady if you can get away with it?

Modifié par Ulicus, 21 décembre 2009 - 01:58 .