299 réponses à ce sujet

[3DandBeyond]

devSin wrote...

J. Reezy wrote...

$200 million dollars made. Yeah BioWare should be worried.

Just to note, this is a bit misleading.

$200 million worth of sales is not the same as $200 million in revenue. EA/BioWare do not earn retail price for the game (at least that I'm aware of), there may be currency exchanges factored into that value, and there is of course cost and overhead (and Microsoft and Sony get paid for every copied manufactured, meaning you have to pay them even if you can't sell it).

Not to diminish your point, but when they said ME3 drove $200 million in sales, that doesn't mean BioWare actually made $200 million. That likely just indicates that the game sold 3 million copies at ASP $60 or some such.

That does not factor in all the returns which at one time were brisk-not saying that's a major deduction but it's there.  Amazon made special exceptions for returns not normally accepted.  Consider all the cost for those VAs, ads, heck take a look at the credits and you get an idea of expenses.

[Ghost]

shepard1038 wrote...

What ever happened to just buying DLC for fun and for the story?

[Soltana]

I love how this thread is still open AND an announcement.

[Ghost]

Soltana wrote...

I love how this thread is still open AND an announcement.

Same here.

[darkchief10]

Soltana wrote...

I love how this thread is still open AND an announcement.

well, at least it looks like bioware is actively monitoring this conversation as i don't think normal mods can make announcements, only stickies, correct me if i'm wrong though.

[Sajuro]

Soltana wrote...

I love how this thread is still open AND an announcement.

probably so it will stay on the front page to curb the number of threads about this exact thing.

[Hrothdane]

3DandBeyond wrote...

devSin wrote...

J. Reezy wrote...

$200 million dollars made. Yeah BioWare should be worried.

Just to note, this is a bit misleading.

$200 million worth of sales is not the same as $200 million in revenue. EA/BioWare do not earn retail price for the game (at least that I'm aware of), there may be currency exchanges factored into that value, and there is of course cost and overhead (and Microsoft and Sony get paid for every copied manufactured, meaning you have to pay them even if you can't sell it).

Not to diminish your point, but when they said ME3 drove $200 million in sales, that doesn't mean BioWare actually made $200 million. That likely just indicates that the game sold 3 million copies at ASP $60 or some such.

That does not factor in all the returns which at one time were brisk-not saying that's a major deduction but it's there.  Amazon made special exceptions for returns not normally accepted.  Consider all the cost for those VAs, ads, heck take a look at the credits and you get an idea of expenses.

Thank you. I wish people would understand the difference between net and gross; the former is the number that actually matters, and the latter is what people quote when they want to make the numbers look better.

[PaulSX]

J. Reezy wrote...

devSin wrote...

J. Reezy wrote...

$200 million dollars made. Yeah BioWare should be worried.

Just to note, this is a bit misleading.

$200 million worth of sales is not the same as $200 million in revenue. EA/BioWare do not earn retail price for the game (at least that I'm aware of), there may be currency exchanges factored into that value, and there is of course cost and overhead (and Microsoft and Sony get paid for every copied manufactured, meaning you have to pay them even if you can't sell it).

Not to diminish your point, but when they said ME3 drove $200 million in sales, that doesn't mean BioWare actually made $200 million. That likely just indicates that the game sold 3 million copies at ASP $60 or some such.

Yeah the units sold was what I was getting at with that. Selling 3 million copies in 4 months doesn't really sound like a game that isn't doing well.

for a game like mass effect 3 which is rather a moderate or low budget game among tripple A  games, 3 million copies should well satisfy them. on the other hand,  3 million copies of Max Payne 3 were also sold in the first month or so, but that game actually is not considered as a success.

[Kyazain]

3DandBeyond wrote...

devSin wrote...

J. Reezy wrote...

$200 million dollars made. Yeah BioWare should be worried.

Just to note, this is a bit misleading.

$200 million worth of sales is not the same as $200 million in revenue. EA/BioWare do not earn retail price for the game (at least that I'm aware of), there may be currency exchanges factored into that value, and there is of course cost and overhead (and Microsoft and Sony get paid for every copied manufactured, meaning you have to pay them even if you can't sell it).

Not to diminish your point, but when they said ME3 drove $200 million in sales, that doesn't mean BioWare actually made $200 million. That likely just indicates that the game sold 3 million copies at ASP $60 or some such.

That does not factor in all the returns which at one time were brisk-not saying that's a major deduction but it's there.  Amazon made special exceptions for returns not normally accepted.  Consider all the cost for those VAs, ads, heck take a look at the credits and you get an idea of expenses.

From working in retail, I believe the store you bought the product from will lose money when a return is made. Not the manufacturer (i.e. EA/Bioware). The manufacturer still keeps the money. That's apart of shrink, which is loss of revenue in the store (if you're not familiar with retail operations).

Hopefully I read your post right. . .

Also, the manufacturer will usually get the most money when a sale is made in a store. I think the store I work at only gets about 3%-8% of the revenue. Maybe less than that. . . But then, I could be wrong. They don't tell me everything.

[OMTING52601]

Kyazain wrote...

From working in retail, I believe the store you bought the product from will lose money when a return is made. Not the manufacturer (i.e. EA/Bioware). The manufacturer still keeps the money. That's apart of shrink, which is loss of revenue in the store (if you're not familiar with retail operations).

Hopefully I read your post right. . .

Also, the manufacturer will usually get the most money when a sale is made in a store. I think the store I work at only gets about 3%-8% of the revenue. Maybe less than that. . . But then, I could be wrong. They don't tell me everything.

True, and if shrink is a big deal - which it could potentially be in cases like this where the retailers is left holding the bag, so to speak, it usually channels into less pre-order numbers next time round. Since we won't really know until the next BW game comes out, it's hard to speculate here, but considering DA 2 generally poor reception, and the kerfuffle with ME 3, there's a chance that EA/BW won't be seeing shipped numbers even remotely close to ME 3's with their next product. 

Maybe good for number crunchers - might get a more accurate idea of actual sales that way. Probably not so good for EA/BW if retailers order small numbers because of history. 

[hoodaticus]

Kyazain wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

devSin wrote...

J. Reezy wrote...

$200 million dollars made. Yeah BioWare should be worried.

Just to note, this is a bit misleading.

$200 million worth of sales is not the same as $200 million in revenue. EA/BioWare do not earn retail price for the game (at least that I'm aware of), there may be currency exchanges factored into that value, and there is of course cost and overhead (and Microsoft and Sony get paid for every copied manufactured, meaning you have to pay them even if you can't sell it).

Not to diminish your point, but when they said ME3 drove $200 million in sales, that doesn't mean BioWare actually made $200 million. That likely just indicates that the game sold 3 million copies at ASP $60 or some such.

That does not factor in all the returns which at one time were brisk-not saying that's a major deduction but it's there.  Amazon made special exceptions for returns not normally accepted.  Consider all the cost for those VAs, ads, heck take a look at the credits and you get an idea of expenses.

From working in retail, I believe the store you bought the product from will lose money when a return is made. Not the manufacturer (i.e. EA/Bioware). The manufacturer still keeps the money. That's apart of shrink, which is loss of revenue in the store (if you're not familiar with retail operations).

Hopefully I read your post right. . .

Also, the manufacturer will usually get the most money when a sale is made in a store. I think the store I work at only gets about 3%-8% of the revenue. Maybe less than that. . . But then, I could be wrong. They don't tell me everything.

In my last job, I was the head of IT for one of the larger retail supply chains in North America (tens of thousands of stores and as many products).  When a store returned something to us, we gave them credit, and we got credit from the vendor.  The credit has to be spent by the store or paid within the credit terms period, usually the same amount of time as is allowed for the invoice to be paid.

[Kyazain]

hoodaticus wrote...

Kyazain wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

devSin wrote...

J. Reezy wrote...

$200 million dollars made. Yeah BioWare should be worried.

Just to note, this is a bit misleading.

$200 million worth of sales is not the same as $200 million in revenue. EA/BioWare do not earn retail price for the game (at least that I'm aware of), there may be currency exchanges factored into that value, and there is of course cost and overhead (and Microsoft and Sony get paid for every copied manufactured, meaning you have to pay them even if you can't sell it).

Not to diminish your point, but when they said ME3 drove $200 million in sales, that doesn't mean BioWare actually made $200 million. That likely just indicates that the game sold 3 million copies at ASP $60 or some such.

That does not factor in all the returns which at one time were brisk-not saying that's a major deduction but it's there.  Amazon made special exceptions for returns not normally accepted.  Consider all the cost for those VAs, ads, heck take a look at the credits and you get an idea of expenses.

From working in retail, I believe the store you bought the product from will lose money when a return is made. Not the manufacturer (i.e. EA/Bioware). The manufacturer still keeps the money. That's apart of shrink, which is loss of revenue in the store (if you're not familiar with retail operations).

Hopefully I read your post right. . .

Also, the manufacturer will usually get the most money when a sale is made in a store. I think the store I work at only gets about 3%-8% of the revenue. Maybe less than that. . . But then, I could be wrong. They don't tell me everything.

In my last job, I was the head of IT for one of the larger retail supply chains in North America (tens of thousands of stores and as many products).  When a store returned something to us, we gave them credit, and we got credit from the vendor.  The credit has to be spent by the store or paid within the credit terms period, usually the same amount of time as is allowed for the invoice to be paid.

Interesting. . .

Either the company I work for operates differently or I'm being lied to as pressure for sales. . .which wouldn't surprise me. . .

[3DandBeyond]

Hrothdane wrote...

Thank you. I wish people would understand the difference between net and gross; the former is the number that actually matters, and the latter is what people quote when they want to make the numbers look better.

It's also part of the whole mess people don't understand that has happened in gaming today.  Pre-orders.  Games used to be judged by overall sales, even by quarterly or yearly sales.  Games today are made or broken on week one and release day sales.  That's why all the pre-release hype.  They live or die on pre-order sales and the hype and "brand" loyalty are used to get people to buy pre-orders.  But when pre-orders weren't so prevalent they lived and died on gameplay and actual honest reviews, what the game really was, not what devs said the game was.  Day one sales drive weekly sales and creates "buzz". 

And since most consumers today have the attention span of a gnat they need to grab you right away or you may move onto the next best thing.  We all want the new and shiny product that just came out and we want to be the first to get it and post our unboxing (yawn) videos on youtube.

[Foolsfolly]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

DJepic112 wrote...

We already know we can't win with any weapons no matter how infinitely prepared we are. Shepard is killed so who cares about a few extra EMS points?

Why did you pay for Overlord or LOTSB?

You have a valid point, Gibb. But this feels different. I just don't see the point in going after Leviathan. Series is over. Would have made a fantastic ME2 DLC though. Especially if it took Arrival's spot in the DLC line-up.

[3DandBeyond]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

DJepic112 wrote...

We already know we can't win with any weapons no matter how infinitely prepared we are. Shepard is killed so who cares about a few extra EMS points?

Why did you pay for Overlord or LOTSB?

You have a valid point, Gibb. But this feels different. I just don't see the point in going after Leviathan. Series is over. Would have made a fantastic ME2 DLC though. Especially if it took Arrival's spot in the DLC line-up.

That I could see. 

As for Overlord and LotSB-those were for a game that was the middle of the trilogy.  They were not content released after the last act of the last game in the series that has a specific end already said to be set in stone.  They didn't add meaningless things (EMS) to an already completed(?) product.

However, even if ME2 had been the last in the series of games, I would have gotten all the DLC (maybe not the Arrival-only good thing in that is Harbinger), because I loved the ending.  It was heroic and really amazing to me.  The scene where Shepard looks at the teammates and the look back with respect is very brief but it says everything without saying anything.  And then telling off TIM and telling Joker to lose TIM's channel.  It was great.  I played that many times as I did ME1.  I forced myself to play ME3 more than twice in order to see certain events again so I could get my facts straight, but youtube works pretty well.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 04 août 2012 - 03:18 .

[OMTING52601]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Hrothdane wrote...

Thank you. I wish people would understand the difference between net and gross; the former is the number that actually matters, and the latter is what people quote when they want to make the numbers look better.

It's also part of the whole mess people don't understand that has happened in gaming today.  Pre-orders.  Games used to be judged by overall sales, even by quarterly or yearly sales.  Games today are made or broken on week one and release day sales.  That's why all the pre-release hype.  They live or die on pre-order sales and the hype and "brand" loyalty are used to get people to buy pre-orders.  But when pre-orders weren't so prevalent they lived and died on gameplay and actual honest reviews, what the game really was, not what devs said the game was.  Day one sales drive weekly sales and creates "buzz". 

And since most consumers today have the attention span of a gnat they need to grab you right away or you may move onto the next best thing.  We all want the new and shiny product that just came out and we want to be the first to get it and post our unboxing (yawn) videos on youtube.

Which makes me wonder, and not just in re to VG, but to digital products in general: since a lot of sales are based on hype, pr, and paid advertising, how long (if ever) will it be before a shift by the consumers toward a demand for recompense when digital offerings fail to fulfill their end of the sales bargain? I mean, we saw a bit of it with ME 3, with Amazon and even Origins offering full refunds on opened/downloaded products. In the past, if a consumer wasn't happy with a product, they returned it - with certain exceptions(like panties and toilets for obvious reasons). With VG's and software, the consumer kind of gets hosed, but it seems like(especially in light of the global economic downturn) that more and more consumers are rejecting this model.

Back to the topic at hand, other than lip service, I haven't actually read anything concrete about this DLC. I know there's no word on release yet, but is there any word on when some actual content information might be forthcoming?

[3DandBeyond]

OMTING52601 wrote...

Which makes me wonder, and not just in re to VG, but to digital products in general: since a lot of sales are based on hype, pr, and paid advertising, how long (if ever) will it be before a shift by the consumers toward a demand for recompense when digital offerings fail to fulfill their end of the sales bargain? I mean, we saw a bit of it with ME 3, with Amazon and even Origins offering full refunds on opened/downloaded products. In the past, if a consumer wasn't happy with a product, they returned it - with certain exceptions(like panties and toilets for obvious reasons). With VG's and software, the consumer kind of gets hosed, but it seems like(especially in light of the global economic downturn) that more and more consumers are rejecting this model.

Back to the topic at hand, other than lip service, I haven't actually read anything concrete about this DLC. I know there's no word on release yet, but is there any word on when some actual content information might be forthcoming?

Well, it will take retailers a bit to catch up to this mentality if they ever will fully.  With ecommerce so pervasive it's a struggle for brick and mortar stores to compete-in the US some of that may change with changes to sales tax rules, but...electronic devices are becoming so disposable.  But this can only last so long as I see it.  Exactly how much more cheaply can you make these things-some devices as in the case of Amazon's kindle Fire are being sold below or near cost.

Retailers with a "real" presence have tightened up the rules for returns-exchanges for the same item is often a rule.  Other retailers with more cash have expanded the rules.  I worked for one retailer that would accept anything as a return (even if it was not sold by them) for cash.  They no longer do that of course and they are a huge retailer-it was an idiotic policy.

We can't support such a disposable product mentality for too long.  We do need to value our money.

All I've seen for the DLC so far is the trailer-it's supposed to come out this summer so who's to say?

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 04 août 2012 - 03:31 .

[Jawsomebob]

SSPBOURNE wrote...

I'm going to quote the post that everyone else is quoting because I'm original.

[OMTING52601]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Well, it will take retailers a bit to catch up to this mentality if they ever will fully.  With ecommerce so pervasive it's a struggle for brick and mortar stores to compete-in the US some of that may change with changes to sales tax rules, but...electronic devices are becoming so disposable.  But this can only last so long as I see it.  Exactly how much more cheaply can you make these things-some devices as in the case of Amazon's kindle Fire are being sold below or near cost.

Retailers with a "real" presence have tightened up the rules for returns-exchanges for the same item is often a rule.  Other retailers with more cash have expanded the rules.  I worked for one retailer that would accept anything as a return (even if it was not sold by them) for cash.  They no longer do that of course and they are a huge retailer-it was an idiotic policy.

We can't support such a disposable product mentality for too long.  We do need to value our money.

All I've seen for the DLC so far is the trailer-it's supposed to come out this summer so who's to say?

Without a receipt - yeah, a ****** for tat exchange is pretty common now. But with my receipt, I can take anything back and get a refund for anything but digital products. I agree the disposibility factor weighs heavy but I've really seen a refusal by many consumers to accept the idea that the movie they just bought that they hated can't be returned - for example. Or the firewall software that didn't meet expectations(just saw this one recently and holy smack long story short the customer got their refund).

Trailer? Why a trailer? Well, if its due out summer, then I guess at best we might have to wait, what six weeks for a peek? Summer is over 20 Sept, right? Thx, 3D.

[garrusfan1]

D24O wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Does anyone find it funny that "What's the point of Leviathan" is an announcement by Bioware?

Yes, I really want to know why they did this.

Is it really wow that is hilarious

[3DandBeyond]

OMTING52601 wrote...


Without a receipt - yeah, a ****** for tat exchange is pretty common now. But with my receipt, I can take anything back and get a refund for anything but digital products. I agree the disposibility factor weighs heavy but I've really seen a refusal by many consumers to accept the idea that the movie they just bought that they hated can't be returned - for example. Or the firewall software that didn't meet expectations(just saw this one recently and holy smack long story short the customer got their refund).

Trailer? Why a trailer? Well, if its due out summer, then I guess at best we might have to wait, what six weeks for a peek? Summer is over 20 Sept, right? Thx, 3D.

Yes, Sept. 

If I remember right, the DLC is supposed to be long.  There's also new weapons out next week so probably staggering DLC.

[OMTING52601]

Meh, new weapons don't mean much to me. I don't play MP or iOS stuff. I heard it was supposed to be a big DLC, asking price 800MS. Still, can't help but wonder if my idea of 'big' and BW's are the same, LOL.

[felipejiraya]

Why this thread is fixed? lol

[JSwisha]

Bioware knows there is no point in Leviathan other than to try and con what's left of their player base into buying a pointless DLC.

[CyberMiguel]

The point for Leviathan is simply having some fun. Whether it changes the ending or not is not important for a DLC, as DLC is meant to be a complement of the story...well...at least that's what it is in every single game I've played, including the Mass Effect series.

It would be nice if it affects the ending though...

Modifié par CyberMiguel, 04 août 2012 - 05:06 .