457 réponses à ce sujet

[GreyLycanTrope]

IsaacShep wrote...
Then why ain't you picking Control. Sacrifice your body to save every single being. Simple.

Reapers still exist, and I create a police state with an AI in charge that has the potential to become as faulty as it's predecesor.

[Iakus]

EntropicAngel wrote...

iakus wrote...

Sure dead heroes can be uplifting,  But there are people who like to see the hero succeed and live to tell the tale.  We should have the option for either, depending on preference.  As Nightwriter said, we've earned it.  

The point is, "uplifting" is subjective. You can't use subjective terms in an objective context.

We should have the option for either? I don't agree. A story is being told here, and the storywriter have complete say over how it goes. I may not like it, but that doesn't mean I get to change it to what I want it to be. it ceases to be the writer's story, and becomes my story. Without me having to go through the blood, sweat, and tears to get to this point in the story, I'd be pretty d*mn...well, I'll stop. But you see my point.

This is a narrative with player agency.  What we do (supposedly) has an effect on the story.  That's why railroading is so reviled in rpgs.  This isn't an action game like Alan Wake, Red Dead Redemption, or Aassassin's Creed, where teh player's just along for the ride.

And in a game that supposedly boasts multiple endings, forcing SHepard to die in pretty much all of them is the very definition of railroading.

[MerchantGOL]

iPoohCupCakes wrote...

MerchantGOL wrote...

Really you thought it was more forced then DA:O

At least you get an option to live or die. Mass Effect 3:
 Green:  You die.
Blue Low EMS: You die.
Blue High EMS: You die.
Red Low EMS: You die.
Red Medium EMS: You die.
Red High EMS: You die. 
Refusal: You're gonna die.  You and everyone else dies.
And i don't wanna hear " What about the last air scene? " If i don't see shepard up, walking, and throwing the brofist in the air she/he is dead to me. 

you breath and Bioware says  you live, so you live.

if that snot good enough then ur  just a kid mad that he has to cut of his own crust on his pbj

[MerchantGOL]

Greylycantrope wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...
Then why ain't you picking Control. Sacrifice your body to save every single being. Simple.

Reapers still exist, and I create a police state with an AI in charge that has the potential to become as faulty as it's predecesor.

its only implied you create a political state if your a renegade

[OMTING52601]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

The Catalyst is still in there.

I still must die, unless EDI and the geth die. Main issue. I wanted the option for an uplifting ending. I think I earned it.

But why does Shepard have to live for it to be uplifting? One could argue for Shepard's death being uplifting as well.

Not trying to be a jerk or anything, but since when does a good guys death ever equal uplifiting? It might equal bittersweet, but uplifting? I suppose one could try and make an argument, but it would only be for the sake of, ie playing devil's advocate and would likely only be done in order to get even more people hot under the collar.

Humans rejoice in the death of evil not in the death of good. And while the Reapers may die in certain endings(YAY) the fact that Shep does as well - or rather for all intents and purposes even if the chest moves - it makes the end not uplifting but sweetbitter - since the sweet comes right before the bitter and the bitter has, apparently, really stuck around. IMO, FWIW, which is likely nil, LOL!

Modifié par OMTING52601, 04 août 2012 - 03:21 .

[Iakus]

MerchantGOL wrote...
you breath and Bioware says  you live, so you live.

if that snot good enough then ur  just a kid mad that he has to cut of his own crust on his pbj

Yeah...Bioware people haven't been in 100% agreement on what that breath means.

Not gonna comment on the rest of the statement.  Just gonn akeep a billy goat close by, just in case...

[GreyLycanTrope]

MerchantGOL wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...
Then why ain't you picking Control. Sacrifice your body to save every single being. Simple.

Reapers still exist, and I create a police state with an AI in charge that has the potential to become as faulty as it's predecesor.

its only implied you create a political state if your a renegade

I said police not political, you're still the defacto "peace keeper" either way

[shepskisaac]

iakus wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Urhm ,but Shep survives in best Destroy

Bioware gives you "a ray of hope" in 3100+ EMS Destroy.  That's not the same thing.  Bioware's basically giving you wiggle room to let you head canon Shepard lives.  But it's all "speculation"  Compare that to Shepard climbing out of the rubble in ME1, or the run back to the Normandy in ME2.  

Plus in every other ending, every one, SHepard dies.  Full stop.  there's not a single ending that definitely statees Shepard lives.

No. Bioware uses the utter basic & simple storytelling method we've seen about 1387249217498234 times in cinema in the past 100 years or so to tell us "yay, hero managed to survive! he will get his wounds treated and will live happily ever after!". Even the freaking movie file is called "ShepardLives.bik".

Sorry, but anyone who tries to argue that scene does it with the sole purpouse of just whining some more about the endings.

[Nightwriter]

IsaacShep wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

I wanted the option for an uplifting ending. I think I earned it.

So let's be honest, is about dancing Ewoks ending? Well, I get it. I like happy endings too. But non-100%-happy-ending doesn't mean it's a bad ending.

A dancing Ewoks ending would've felt extremely inappropriate, given the scale of the loss the galaxy had suffered. You don't dance while you're still bleeding and there are corpses on the ground.

But you do salute your comrades. You do clasp them on the shoulder. You do meet their eye and let the fact that you both survived and won sink in.

[DPSSOC]

chidingewe8036 wrote...
Am I right or am I wrong guys????

Look I know you are tired of hearing this but look those of you who legitimately liked the endings are just tired of caring and you know Bioware has stated that they were not going to change the endings, so you have just given in to that fact.

You know as someone who enjoyed the original ending I can't find the words for how insulting I find this statement.  How DARE you tell me that I only like the ending out of a sense of resignation.  How DARE you belittle the work of the Bioware staff, the time and effort they put in, by suggesting the only reason people like the ending is becaused they're resigned to the fact that it is what it is.

I enjoyed the ending, I liked the shift in tone, the sudden shift of Shepard being a do anything bad ass who finally has to face how small, how powerless, how ultimately impotent he/she is in the face of the Reaper threat.  Was it perfect?  Certainly not.  Was it great?  Not really.  Was it what I was expecting?  No.  However it's still enjoyable (to me).

Now don't get me wrong I get why people don't like the ending, I completely understand; I just disagree.

chidingewe8036 wrote...
Now, what if those of you who liked the original endings and the EC were given a choice between a totally new ending or the ones we currently have now? You can't tell me you would stick to the original if the new ending was totally redone of course depending on what the new ending would intel.

It'd really depend on the new ending.  That's the problem people don't seem to get is that this assumption that anything is better than what we have is so completely wrong it deserves an award.  ME3's ending is not the bottom of the barrel as far as endings go, it isn't even close.  To answer the question if they were to release an ending that just abandon's the Crucible I'd stick with the original, because such an ending renders the entire plot of ME3 pointless.  If the new ending showers the galaxy in sunshine and rainbows I'd stick with the original, because such an ending is so Disney even Disney wouldn't touch it.

[Nightwriter]

IsaacShep wrote...

iakus wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Urhm ,but Shep survives in best Destroy

Bioware gives you "a ray of hope" in 3100+ EMS Destroy.  That's not the same thing.  Bioware's basically giving you wiggle room to let you head canon Shepard lives.  But it's all "speculation"  Compare that to Shepard climbing out of the rubble in ME1, or the run back to the Normandy in ME2.  

Plus in every other ending, every one, SHepard dies.  Full stop.  there's not a single ending that definitely statees Shepard lives.

No. Bioware uses the utter basic & simple storytelling method we've seen about 1387249217498234 times in cinema in the past 100 years or so to tell us "yay, hero managed to survive! he will get his wounds treated and will live happily ever after!". Even the freaking movie file is called "ShepardLives.bik".

Sorry, but anyone who tries to argue that scene does it with the sole purpouse of just whining some more about the endings.

I would never in a million years have thought the breath scene was anything other than a clear indication of Shepard's survival.

Then a BioWare dev said it could be a death gasp. And I went .

I honestly wish he hadn't said it. Before that, the writers' intention seemed perfectly clear to me. Then he had to go and cast a towering shadow of doubt over it.

[Iakus]

Nightwriter wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

I wanted the option for an uplifting ending. I think I earned it.

So let's be honest, is about dancing Ewoks ending? Well, I get it. I like happy endings too. But non-100%-happy-ending doesn't mean it's a bad ending.

A dancing Ewoks ending would've felt extremely inappropriate, given the scale of the loss the galaxy had suffered. You don't dance while you're still bleeding and there are corpses on the ground.

But you do salute your comrades. You do clasp them on the shoulder. You do meet their eye and let the fact that you both survived and won sink in.

You climb out of the rubble, holding your arm and limping towards your relieved comrades.

You walk through your ship as your comrades nod at you in respect as they repair battle damage, and you place a hand on the coffin of one of the fallen as you gaze out into the stars.

[Mello]

MerchantGOL wrote...

iPoohCupCakes wrote...

MerchantGOL wrote...

Really you thought it was more forced then DA:O

At least you get an option to live or die. Mass Effect 3:
 Green:  You die.
Blue Low EMS: You die.
Blue High EMS: You die.
Red Low EMS: You die.
Red Medium EMS: You die.
Red High EMS: You die. 
Refusal: You're gonna die.  You and everyone else dies.
And i don't wanna hear " What about the last air scene? " If i don't see shepard up, walking, and throwing the brofist in the air she/he is dead to me. 

you breath and Bioware says  you live, so you live.

if that snot good enough then ur  just a kid mad that he has to cut of his own crust on his pbj

Hey, well that's your opinion i wouldn't say i'm a kid. If Bioware say's shepard lives ok shepard lives, but i still want to see her/him crawling up from the rubble puting up the brofist while the badass mass effect music plays.

[Iakus]

Nightwriter wrote...

I would never in a million years have thought the breath scene was anything other than a clear indication of Shepard's survival.

Then a BioWare dev said it could be a death gasp. And I went .

I honestly wish he hadn't said it. Before that, the writers' intention seemed perfectly clear to me. Then he had to go and cast a towering shadow of doubt over it.

It was always a weak, sickly sign.

Especially compared to watching Shepard dissolve, get electrocuted, or walk into a fireball.

[shepskisaac]

Nightwriter wrote...

A dancing Ewoks ending would've felt extremely inappropriate, given the scale of the loss the galaxy had suffered. You don't dance while you're still bleeding and there are corpses on the ground.

Ewoks did lol

[MerchantGOL]

Greylycantrope wrote...

MerchantGOL wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...
Then why ain't you picking Control. Sacrifice your body to save every single being. Simple.

Reapers still exist, and I create a police state with an AI in charge that has the potential to become as faulty as it's predecesor.

its only implied you create a political state if your a renegade

I said police not political, you're still the defacto "peace keeper" either way

Just like you were when you were flesh and blood.


I for one Thing  Shepard wathcing over the galaxy in shuch a complete compacity is nothign but a  good thing....paragon shepard at least, renegads can be real bstards

[The Twilight God]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

The Catalyst is still in there.

I still must die, unless EDI and the geth die. Main issue. I wanted the option for an uplifting ending. I think I earned it.

But why does Shepard have to live for it to be uplifting? One could argue for Shepard's death being uplifting as well.

That's the thing... he dies in ALL endings. Shepard ends right there in the Catalyst Chamber just like Control and Synthesis. Shepard living on in Destroy is headcanon. Just like Shepard coming back as a cylon in Control or sprouting from a cybernetic pod with a new body in Synthesis. So why is Control and Synthesis sunshine and butterflies while Destroy the only tough choice with ALL the sacrifice?

[chemiclord]

Nightwriter wrote...

I would never in a million years have thought the breath scene was anything other than a clear indication of Shepard's survival.

Then a BioWare dev said it could be a death gasp. And I went .

I honestly wish he hadn't said it. Before that, the writers' intention seemed perfectly clear to me. Then he had to go and cast a towering shadow of doubt over it.

Only if you were looking for a reason to be depressed and pissed off about it.  Otherwise, logic would kick in and you'd say "Oh hey... 1+1=2!"

Basically, Hepler's troll job is best summed up as, "You guys want to be miserable?  Fine.  He bled out.  Go be miserable.  I'm done trying to convince you otherwise."

[Andy the Black]

I don't know. Not going to lie, I didn't like the vanilla ending. But the EC fixed most of the issues I had with it, and I know I'm not the only one who feels like this. I respect Bio for changing the end and keeping their original vision. I'm not sure how I would feel if they just retconed everything after Marauder Shields.

[SHARXTREME]

Random Jerkface wrote...

It seems like people on this forum misunderstand Godwin's Law.

It also seems that some people don't understand real facts from WWII and implications of enforcing ideologically formed synthesis on entire galaxy. Godwin's "Law" cannot be applied here. Wrong is wrong and force is force.

Why people see it like that is simple. It's like that. You are put in the position to implement and force your enemy's(or your own) ideology wuth brutal methods on everyone.

What if Catalyst would ask to sacrifice Asari or Quarians or Krogans, Everybody but humans and not "just" Geth and EDI?
There would still be people who would push the button and defend their decision. or am I wrong?
But it's the writers fault that the choices are like that, you are needed just to push the button, becase all your previous choices mean less then nothing,   

 

[shepskisaac]

Nightwriter wrote...

I would never in a million years have thought the breath scene was anything other than a clear indication of Shepard's survival.

Then a BioWare dev said it could be a death gasp. And I went .

I honestly wish he hadn't said it. Before that, the writers' intention seemed perfectly clear to me. Then he had to go and cast a towering shadow of doubt over it.

He said it to satisfy those who desperately head-canon SHep dead. Right after, Mike Gamble even poked fun at it with the entire "because a metal beam may totally fall on his head after he breathes :lol:" (not exact quote ;P)

[SMichelle]

IsaacShep wrote...

No. Bioware uses the utter basic & simple storytelling method we've seen about 1387249217498234 times in cinema in the past 100 years or so to tell us "yay, hero managed to survive! he will get his wounds treated and will live happily ever after!". Even the freaking movie file is called "ShepardLives.bik".

Sorry, but anyone who tries to argue that scene does it with the sole purpouse of just whining some more about the endings.

Alas, I am a pessimist.  I didn't feel triumphant with that ending....because nothing comes later. Whoop-dee-do!  Shep takes a breath.  Really, what are the chances she survives her wounds until rescue?  She was hit with a reaper beam, shot, blown up, fell and landed into a pile of rubble.  Let's not forget starkid saying that Shep's implants will also cause her to die if she destroys the Reapers.


Chances of survival are slim.  Even if she does survive, so what?  I don't feel any moment of triumph because honestly, I don't see how she can survive.  And if she dies, I don't feel any triumph because I don't see how she survived any of those things in the first place.  I don't understand the whole walk towards a red tube shooting until it explodes.  I don't understand surviving a Reaper beam attack with singed armor.  Blech