457 réponses à ce sujet

[Alex_Dur4and]

Fact 1: Bioware will no longer change the endings! Live with it!

Fact 2: Although we have been provided with several answers regarding plot holes and more closure, the endings are as ambiguous as before... Is destroy the right choice? Is "Star Brat" telling the truth? Is IT possible? Are synthesis and control endings simply the vision of "indoctrinated Shepard" as he is, himself, harvesting without knowing? Your guess is as good as mine... LOTS OF SPECULATION!!

Now, in upcoming DLCs...

- Will we get to know more about the reapers and their agenda?
Certainly!

- Will we see possible changes (improvements) to the endings?
Very unlikely

- Will we be pointed towards the "right" ending (without any changes to it) as the other DLCs unfold?
Possibly

- Is the IT true?
I don't know, and I'm tired of discussing it...

My gut feelings tell me that things will get clearer and better as the DLCs pile up... Will this anger some? Definitely! Do I care? Not at all!

I'm really curious to see what effects the upcoming DLCs will have on the overall turnout of the game... I pray that the reward from the upcoming SP DLCs are not simply going to be several hundred points to my war assets... My N7 level is 3900 on Multiplayer! I can literally ruin the galaxy and still get the best ending!!

[GreyLycanTrope]

FS3D wrote...

 My ending is Marauder Shields.

When death by mook is preferable to the established conclusion something is wrong

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 04 août 2012 - 03:46 .

[SMichelle]

IsaacShep wrote...

There's nothing to discuss on that scene. It's Hollywood cliche survival scene for the audience to go "yay he lives!" before the end. Complete with the love interest knowing "deep in heart" that the beloved lover didn't die.

Nice that you can see it that way. 

But they still have a memorial (including the LI).  Shep was still shot, blown up twice, is buried in rubble, and has cybernetic implants that were supposed to kill her.  But hey, if you like to see a HEA with this ending, who am I to burst your bubble? 

[shepskisaac]

SMichelle wrote...

But they still have a memorial (including the LI).  Shep was still shot, blown up twice, is buried in rubble, and has cybernetic implants that were supposed to kill her.  But hey, if you like to see a HEA with this ending, who am I to burst your bubble? 

Yeah, and the memorial scene in best Destroy version has LI looking on Shep's name, not putting it among other dead names and going full-on-Hollywood "oh em gee! I feel it in my heart! He lives! :'D" with obligatory smile and and a distant look.

And nothig compares to falling into atmosphere. His body shouldn't even exist anymore

Modifié par IsaacShep, 04 août 2012 - 03:54 .

[Yakko77]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Yakko77 wrote...

Then there are not any more planned SP DLC purchases from this fan.  Yes, I am a fan, a hardcore fan who loves Mass Effect.  No, seriously, Mass Effect is THE game of games for me.  I love other games too like Fallout 3, Skyrim, Dead Space 1 & 2, Saints Row 2 & 3, Halo, Dead Island, Hunted, Dragon Age 1 & 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Star Wars TOR, etc. but Mass Effect is the scale by which each is measured.  I am a fan who expected the game finish to live up to the excellence of the previous games of the franchise which was epic in scale thankfully yet hard to live up to but I hoped BW was up to it and thankfully they were... until the last 10 minutes.  Truly, ME3 was 9.0 - 9.5 until the last 10 minutes IMO.  BW can cling to "artistic integrity" all it wants but what what BW makes is a product for consumers and the product was a unsatisfactory and a failure with the orginal ending and "promoted" to just barely acceptable with EC.  Destroying the Reapers is forced to have a consequence that was never even remotely hinted or suggestd at having until the last 10 minutes of ME3.  Synthesis came out of nowhere and the new Reject Ending is still in effect a middle finger to those who disliked the lack of exchange with the Star Child.

Why, WHY is it too much to ask for a simple happy ending with my Shep reuniting with my LI at the end of Destroy... oh yeah, then there'd be no reason for Synthesis to be "preferred" by Star Brat (i.e. the writers who wrote that disaster of a ending choice).  Honestly, there a YT vid which COMPLETELY edits out everything with the star child and it's AWESOME!!!!  No need for a Star Wars medal ceremony... just a reunion with squad or at least the LI, a grasping of hands, a hug, a kiss.... the end.  Was that so hard?  Apparently so.  Pity.  I thought BW was better.  Now every new BW purchase will no longer be a day one purchase.  I will wait until I hear/read MULTIPLE reviews that at least suggest it not a disaster as far as writing goes which is sad considering how epic other BW games were and were the sole reason I even bought a xbox for KOTOR and a xbox360 for ME2.

I've boycotted DLC from BW before when it came to Pinnacle Station.  I can do it again with Leviathan with this DLC if indeed it offers no more than an extra line of chat with Star Brat and/or an extra slide in the EC ending.  Though it would be spoiler, I will NOT purchase this DLC without proof that Destroy "Good" ending is given a satisfactory ending that has definitive answers and a actual conclusion... not some ambiguous at best gasp of air scene and Sheps name not being put on a wall.  Video games are a VISUAL medium.  At least predend you know how to accomodate that BW.  We shouldn't have to "head cannon" but sadly that what many other fans (and yes, they are fans or else they wouldn't be this upset) are currently forced into.

BW, your fans expect better not becuase they're spoiled or entitled but because BW developed a reputaion of being the best.  You did NOT live up to that repuation with the ME3 ending, even with EC.  Face it,deal with it,  FIX IT!!!!

1. Your last paragraph there is incredibly pretentious. There are a heck of a lot of people that liked ME3's ending, and there are even people that hated it before the EC and now like it a lot.

in the bolded:

2. Destroy already has this, though that's a circle we could run around for hours (and there are PLENTY of other threads that make strong arguments for this)

3. They aren't changing it, he just said. There is no "proof" it will be changed, in fact it won't. So why are you acting like you expect them to?

I don't expect them to.  I'm just saying how it could've and IMO should've been done but alas BW decided that a new character in the last 10 minutes should introduce a "preferred" option that wasn't even considered in 2.99 games prior to that last 10 minutes..  Without that circular logic/artistic integrity then there'd be little or no reason to chose synthesis.  If Destroy didn't kill the Geth and EDI and with a high enough EMS enabled you to reunite with your squad and LI, what reason would there have been to choose any other option?  The moment you run into Star Child, the game is thrown into complete disaray.  Not even EC fixes this completely though it does make it somewhat less a disaster.

Destroy "good" Ending requires "head cannon" for a happy ending.  Video games are a VISUAL medium.  There shouldn't be a need for head cannon.

Modifié par Yakko77, 04 août 2012 - 03:55 .

[OMTING52601]

IsaacShep wrote...

OMTING52601 wrote...

I'd say folks who say, "It was Shep's last gasp," aren't any farther off the mark than those who repeatedly point out the file name says Shep lives.

If the goal was to show Shep's last gasp before death, they would've put it in all Destroy endings. They also wouldn't make an exclusive, different version of memorial scene

No, no. Originally that breath scene was an easter egg for iOS and MP players. That isn't even debateable. There were never enough SP only EMS points for SP only players to ever see that breath in the original release of the game. Regardless of whether, with EC, BW changed the needed EMS to a level where NOW SP only players can get it - that was NOT it's original application. 

As such, for SP only players, and for players who failed to reach the alloted EMS, there never was a breath scene. That there is now, but only with whatever the 'really high' EMS is, still suggests that it's a bonus scene for those who put the effort in to either A) play the crap out of iOS/MP and/or play completionist games.

As far as the exclusive, different version of the memorial, Isaac, every new memorial scene is different. In the Synthesis ending, EDI hugs your LI. Should everyone then assume that EDI is actually now Shep reincarnated? I mean, she's never shown that kind of affection for anyone other than Joker before the memorial. Holy crap, EDI is really Shep o.0

I'm not saying your observations are irrelevant. I'm just saying for everything you 'see' as being proof Shep is alive, there is just as much 'proof' that s/he isn't. Not putting a placard up on a wall doesn't equal life.

It could easily be inferred that in the Destroy ending there isn't ANYTHING of Shep to go on. In Synthesis, maybe a bit of Shep is in everyone and the LI can feel him/her inside. In Control, Shep is running the Reapers and maybe the LI knows this so it's easier to let go of the physical Shep, for the LI, because they know there's no coming back. In Destroy, there's nothing. No space magic spiritualism, no semi-physical construct left behind harboring the soul of Shep. When there's no proof of death, most people tend to hold out hope and that's all I saw by the LI's reluctance. I didn't interpret it as an "I know Shep is still alive," moment by the LI. I saw it as an "I hope Shep is still alive because I haven't seen the ravaged corpse." And I take the breath for what it is/was/will be - a bonus not intended to do anything more than cause speculation by it's lack of concrete resolution.

[Nightwriter]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Like Stornskar said, it kind of feels like you have to die just because they say you have to die. I don't think even heroic sacrifice fans would point to the end of ME3 as a prime example of what they like to see.

I want to live. I want to feel like I won a future for myself. I want to know my love interest isn't now alone and grieving, my friends aren't going to be numbly picking up the pieces of their lives without me (and grieving), and that the game ended on a note of life rather than death.

This is all well and good, but I have to fall back to what I said to iakus and to...that other person, about genocide and RPG. I don't believe we are promised outcomes. We are promised choices, and minor (very so) consequences within the story, but the basic premise of the story is their choice. Heck, you're a writer, as am I. you know what I mean. You can allow some choice, but in the end, you have a story to tell, and you need to tell it.

I actually think some of the dev comments made pre-release qualify as promises of outcomes, but I didn't put much stock in them and am hardly innocently surprised that they didn't keep true to them, so meh.

They are not obligated to satisfy my whim, only to remain consistent with everything they have given me before. I can say "I plan to live to tell about it" before the suicide mission. I can get everyone through alive against all odds. I see Shepard emerging from rubble triumphantly in ME1 and a "we did it" sort of cutscene in the cargo hold after the suicide mission in ME2.

They have never forced fatalist outcomes down my throat, and have always given me the option to end on a good note. They abruptly changed this at the most important point in the series.

[shepskisaac]

OMTING52601 wrote...

When there's no proof of death, most people tend to hold out hope and that's all I saw by the LI's reluctance.

Then why doesn't LI refuse to put Shep's name on the wall in other Destroy endings?

[devSin]

IsaacShep wrote...

If the goal was to show Shep's last gasp before death, they would've put it in all Destroy endings. They also wouldn't make an exclusive, different version of memorial scene

Is it the same thing to say maybe you didn't die as it is to say you lived?

Shepard didn't die from the explosion. We're shown that.

But did they really want to show you that Shepard lived, or did they simply not want to always have to tell you that Shepard dies? (If I don't want to force you to always be certain that the character dies, why not take this noncommittal approach that allows you to believe otherwise, even if I don't consider it part of the story being told for the character to live?)

The problem I have is that I know there are no answers. They haven't put any thought into it. How did he survive? He just did. How could he possibly be rescued? He just will be. How could he possibly recover? He just can. And when you ask them these things, what will they say? "You assume he survived. It could just be his final breath before death." Not because they necessarily think the scene shows him dying (or should ever be interpreted that way), but because they truly don't know how he lives.

By this point in the story, I'm simply not willing to give them the benefit of the doubt (after all the crap in the ending, enough is enough). I can see what they may have been trying for, but they've done nothing to make me believe it, and I just don't feel it.

IsaacShep wrote...

Yeah, and the memorial scene in best Destroy version has LI looking on Shep's name, not putting it among other dead names and going full-on-Hollywood "oh em gee! I feel it in my heart! He lives! :'D" with obligatory smile and and a distant look.

That scene doesn't necessarily work unless you can compare it to the others.

I didn't catch on to any such expressions the first time I saw it. All I saw was grief and "I can't believe he's really dead!" hesitance. (Never mind the idiocy inherent in the scene to begin with.)

Modifié par devSin, 04 août 2012 - 04:04 .

[shepskisaac]

devSin wrote...

The problem I have is that I know there are no answers. They haven't put any thought into it. How did he survive? He just did.

Neither they did with dying in ME2. Project Lazarus is space magic.

[MongoNYC]

PanzerGr3nadier wrote...

brandon3990 wrote...

ShepnTali wrote...

100% of BSN wants a better ending. A fool wouldn't want something better.


Think carefully.

100%?

I bet this is the ending what WE ALL would have wanted;

FINALLY!  Someone who gets it!

[Yakko77]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Yakko77 wrote...

I don't expect them to.  I'm just saying how it could've and IMO should've been done but alas BW decided that a new character in the last 10 minutes should introduce a "preferred" option that wasn'ty even considered in 2.99 games prior to that last 10 minutes..  But had they, then there'd be little reason to chose synthesis.  If Destroy didn't kill the Geth and EDI and with a high enough EMS enabled you to reunite with your squad and LI, what reason would there have been to choose any other option?  The moment you run into Star Child, the game is thrown into complete disaray.  Not even EC fixes this completely though it does make it somewhat less a disaster.

Destroy "good" Ending requires "head cannon" for a happy ending.  Video games are a VISUAL medium.  There shouldn't be a need for head cannon.

As I said to others--why are you basing "happy" on whether Shepard lives or not? That isn't necessarily true.

EDIT: or, I should say, it's subjective.

So, if Destroy "good" ending didn't kill the Geth and EDI and you knew that suc h a end would enable a reunion with your squad and/or LI you'd still choose Control or Synthesis?  Without a certain conclusion for Sheps fate and the killing of Geth and EDI there's almost no reason to choose any other option than Destroy.  The game requires circular logic to accept Synthesis as being preferred.  Contol is at least viable given that TIM, though indoctrinated at least has a viable plan that was clear based on his reaction to the conclusion of the SM in ME2.  Not my ideal choice but I can see it as a option for  others who agree.

[SMichelle]

IsaacShep wrote...

Neither they did with dying in ME2. Project Lazarus is space magic.

I agree.  But ME3 is the end of Shepard's tale.  I don't want space magic at the end.

[The Twilight God]

IsaacShep wrote...

No. Bioware uses the utter basic & simple storytelling method we've seen about 1387249217498234 times in cinema in the past 100 years or so to tell us "yay, hero managed to survive! he will get his wounds treated and will live happily ever after!". Even the freaking movie file is called "ShepardLives.bik".

Sorry, but anyone who tries to argue that scene does it with the sole purpouse of just whining some more about the endings.

No, Bioware wants Shepard dead, but they don't want to hear any whinning about there being no way for him to live so they give you false hope.

Shepard dies in all endings. Shepard lives in all endings. It's all headcanon either way (i.e meaningless).

Modifié par The Twilight God, 04 août 2012 - 04:18 .

[Coachdongwiffle]

Yeah I like the ending. All I wish was they told me a little more about how my choices affected the future. but really the ending is pretty sweet....except synthesis is stupid and makes no sense

[devSin]

IsaacShep wrote...

Neither they did with dying in ME2. Project Lazarus is space magic.

But they chose to not burden the player with imagining how something that is impossible becomes possible.

We know it's nonsense. But Shepard dies. They tell you that Shepard is recovered (and you later get even more detail here). They show you that Shepard is restored. They show Shepard getting off the table and grabbing his pistol and armor from the locker.

Imagine if they showed you Shepard floating dead in space and then getting off the table. Are you really saying that it wouldn't bother you at all; that we could just imagine that he was recovered and rebuilt because the scene says that he's alive?

There can be no credulity for the things that are presented in the ending. How does the squad know Anderson is dead? If they know Anderson is dead, how do they not know Shepard is alive? Are they just putting names up on the wall for kicks? Or did the person who told them Anderson is dead decide to not tell them that Shepard was rescued? Or has Shepard not been rescued? Is Shepard still in rubble? How could Shepard survive, severely injured, with no food or water, all this time? How could Shepard ever be rescued when he was in a secret area of the Citadel? Who would even be rescuing him, since Earth has been ravaged by war, the fleets are gone, and the Citadel is in disarray?

Fact is, they had to extricate Shepard from a fatal situation in some reasonable way, and they failed. Show him having landed somewhere on the Presidium for the breath scene (somewhere he's likely to actually be found). Or play the voice of rescuers searching the rubble shortly after you see him taking the breath (so you know that help is nearby). How did Shepard survive? He just did. How can Shepard be rescued? Because there are people right there. How will Shepard recover? Because he's just about to be rescued.

Sure, I can imagine that (impossible) good things will happen. You could also imagine that your body was recovered by the Shadow Broker and stolen by Liara and turned over to Cerberus, who rebuilt you, but that sounds pretty stupid when you're just making it up in your head, doesn't it? It does, and that's why they gave all that information to you.

Modifié par devSin, 04 août 2012 - 04:24 .

[OMTING52601]

IsaacShep wrote...

OMTING52601 wrote...

When there's no proof of death, most people tend to hold out hope and that's all I saw by the LI's reluctance.

Then why doesn't LI refuse to put Shep's name on the wall in other Destroy endings?

What other Destroy endings? The low EMS Destroy ending shows everyone dying - Shepard included. 

There's no LI to refuse to put Shep's name on the wall in the low EMS version. 

[Memnon]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Stornskar wrote...

Can only speak for myself (I seem to start a lot of my posts with that statement a lot lately), but I did go into ME3 half-expecting that Shepard would die in a hero's sacrifice at the end. I was sort of bracing myself for it the entire game ... I've no issue with heroic sacrifice, my personal issue with the end is that the sacrificed seemed forced. It was like the game was telling me I had to die because I had to die. I didn't feel like Tassadar crashing into the Overmind or the Gray Warden absorbing the soul of the arch demon. It felt cheap, it felt rushed, and it just felt wrong ... 

Again, all my own opinion

+10 for emphasizing your opinion. You are a rare gem on the BSN.

I personally felt like I was doing the impossible. I was saving the galaxy from an enemy we literally could not beat. I felt...tired. I'd fought for years, got thrown in prisong for holding them back, and when the Reapers showed up they pulled me out of jail and said "we haven't done anything, HELP!"

I fought in a race against time to prepare the one thing that might defeat the Reapers, and when that thing COULD, I was so relieved...I could finally sit down and rest. Just...sleep. Let it be over...

I felt a lot of the same - and as I said, I half expected the heroic sacrifice. I hoped that I would be hanging out with Garrus on a beach and reuniting with Miranda, but realisically I didn't think it would happen. The mechanism for that sacrifice (the catalyst and the three colors) just felt like an insult to me. A while back I posted that when I learned the Catalyst was controlling the Reapers I would have tried to destroy the Citadel, even with me on it. I could have handled that kind of sacrifice ... but having the Catalyst tell me that I had to disintegrate myself to win felt contrived. The ironic thing is that I picked Destroy and had max EMS, so I actually lived ... but I was still irritated at that entire exchange

Modifié par Stornskar, 04 août 2012 - 04:29 .

[devSin]

OMTING52601 wrote...

There's no LI to refuse to put Shep's name on the wall in the low EMS version.

There actually is a mid-EMS destroy where the name is put up on the wall.

I think we're still waiting for the video where everybody is dead and the nameplate just floats up to the wall (apparently, this happened to somebody who purposely killed the whole squad off).

Modifié par devSin, 04 août 2012 - 04:28 .

[shepskisaac]

OMTING52601 wrote...

What other Destroy endings? The low EMS Destroy ending shows everyone dying - Shepard included. 

There's no LI to refuse to put Shep's name on the wall in the low EMS version. 

But there's 'mid' Destory ending in which some tech gets damaged but nobody dies (certinately not squadmates) and the memorial scene plays with LI putting the name on wall, and there's 'high' Destroy that has everyone fine but no scene of Shep breating and LI puts the name on the wall.