901 réponses à ce sujet

[Asebstos]

I really don't get people that want a Level 1 UR to be better than a Level X rare.

And before anyone says "Its so much harder to get URs!"  Pretty sure I had a few Level 1 URs before I maxed out all my Rares. Would have been crap if there was no point to leveling my Widow to X because I pulled a Jav or BW 1 early on.

[Cull58]

Xaijin wrote...

The typhoon was fine. It needed no nerf

1. There seems to be a consistent need to place ARs in an unusable category in risk/performance/reward situations. For many the Typhoon was the first AR the could be used continually and consistently, owing to harrier ammo issues.

2. It was one the few platinum ready assault rifles out of the box. That is no longer the case, as the reduced damage does not justify its pack cost or the length of time needed to remain out of cover while using it. Perhaps even unconsciously, this weapon was one of the few that recalled the ARs effectiveness in past MEs. Small wonder people are pissed.

3. This a glaring example of what is wrong with the store and ultra Rares. The Typhoon was one of four URs that are actually worth the cost. (15 million credits average to max) The rest are either overshadowed in dps or usability/utility by golds. Stated flatly, Blacks are completely overpriced and over-rare compared to Golds. Their cost is in no way shape or form justified by any sane process of measurement. This is doubly ironic in light of deliberate farming to earn enough to buy underpowered-by-cost weapons., something apparently that this balancing action is supposed to prevent or modify.

4. I don't recall hearing a single complaint about the Typhoon at launch, or the weeks following.

5. The PPR, Typhoon and Revenant should be flagship powerless-class weapons. They aren't. Not even close.

6. Gear should be performance enhancing, not mandatory for any mode, weapon, or class.

I often wonder whether BW play this game. If they do it is on silver and below.

[neteng101]

I don't have the Typhoon yet, but in matches I've played when someone was using a Typhoon, I've never felt like they had a supreme edge over everyone else in the game.  And most of the Typhoons I saw in matches were all on the N7 Destroyer.

I have to ask - why are you guys so paranoid and what exactly are you so afraid of that you found the need to double nerf such a new weapon that a lot of us don't even have unlocked yet?

[soldo9149]

Sp3c7eR wrote...

Eric, with all due respect, the weapon right now feels useless as compared to before. A Typhoon cannot take out an Atlas as quickly as before, has poor mobility and poor accuracy. Revenant outclasses it in mobility alone and at mid range it can take down bosses just as quickly. So I can't really see the 50% inherent bonus damage to protections because I played with both last night.

Before, it took me 160 bullets to kill an Atlas. Right now 220 bullets leave an Atlas with half armor. The damage output has been reduced drastically, including damage versus mooks.

To get the best out of the weapon you need to keep firing as opposed to any other assault rifle due to the ramp-up time. That, along with the fact it's an ultra rare should guarantee high damage output like it had before. Right now it's just a bad weapon to use, there are other weapons that do its job more efficiently without the necessity of you being exposed, taking fire or ramping up the weapon while a phantom's slashing at you.

Please consider increasing the ramp-up time to further reduce it's mobility (slightly) so the "hold position and supress" element is emphasised, but reverse the nerfs to damage and penetration. That way it will keep its niche as a deployable machine gun.

Thanks for opening a discussion about this.

I agree

[Gamemako]

OK, so Specter's vid again.

1) The original kill appears only to work if the 50% is a multiplier and armor DR is reduced by half. It's multi*multi AND the 50% DR, otherwise he doesn't kill as fast as we see in the video. The video matches up pretty well exactly with that formula. For that formula, the total multiplier against all types of protection is 3x, which puts the fully-revved burst DPS at 1803.75 base -- even more than the comically-overpowered Piranha, which comes in at 1774 DPS base. It's also very accurate and reduces armor damage reduction to free up the need for an AP mod.

2) The second video comes in way, way, way under budget for that formula. That means one of a few things: the formula changed (all but impossible without a patch), other changes were made (highly unlikely), he's missing a whole lot (he does seem to have some accuracy issues there), or he's not using the same equipment (difficult to verify without knowing the actual number of rounds missed).

Based on the likely formula (that is incidentally consistent with what Eric said in the very first post here), it would appear that you can still kill an Atlas in one clip. Replace stability mod and gear with barrel and assault rifle gear. Provided your aim is true, you should have 28 bullets left in your clip after killing it.

The single toughest thing in the game.

Seriously, the gun needs another nerf.

Modifié par Gamemako, 04 août 2012 - 04:09 .

[demondioma]

The Typhoon is my favorite weapon to use with basically any character that does not depend on powers (it's heavy as a cow!). I find it superior because of the clip size (I was used to the Harrier), I almost always use piercing mods anyways.
I sometimes agree with nerfs but lately... things are getting over nerfed and I'm starting to shun any of your 'balance' changes. The latest nerfs were like punches in the gut.

Modifié par demondioma, 04 août 2012 - 04:17 .

[Bluebeam2012]

It's horrible.

*my feeble attempt for Bioware to not nerf it again.

[Cull58]

demondioma wrote...

The Typhoon is my favorite weapon to use with basically any character that does not depend on powers (it's heavy as a cow!). I find it superior because of the clip size (I was used to the Harrier), I almost always use piercing mods anyways. I sometimes agree with nerfs but lately... things are getting over nerfed and I'm starting to shun any of your 'balance' changes.

They seem to base their "balance" on the lower levels when anything can be effective on those. The nerfs just hurt the higher level players and the buffs only help the lower levels. Its silly.

[HeavyTankZA]

if i am lucky enough to get it in one of my spectre or prem spec packs this weekend i'll be sure to talk about it, but as things go i keep getting weapons i never use, snipe rifles and arc pistols...

[Cull58]

HeavyTankZA wrote...

if i am lucky enough to get it in one of my spectre or prem spec packs this weekend i'll be sure to talk about it, but as things go i keep getting weapons i never use, snipe rifles and arc pistols...

After the nerf you'll only use it once

[xXdmndmnXx]

Asebstos wrote...

I really don't get people that want a Level 1 UR to be better than a Level X rare.

And before anyone says "Its so much harder to get URs!"  Pretty sure I had a few Level 1 URs before I maxed out all my Rares. Would have been crap if there was no point to leveling my Widow to X because I pulled a Jav or BW 1 early on.

You are partially correct, but that's just because of the random nature of the Store. Some folks take forever to unlock a UR if they ever do manage to unlock it, point-in-fact, it took me ~60 SPs and ~50PSPs before i got my first UR i kid you not. So it does enrage said folks when the weapon they took ages to unlock gets nerfed twice, the first nerf was fine, the second was a bit much. i know, i know, math is "irrefutable" but sometimes you don't get what you see ( at some point in time people actually believed the world was flat, did they not? ), Revenant or Typhoon, i've played a few gold games with them having equipped mods/consumables with them and the Revenant just seems a better choice on any character other than the Destroyer ( because only the Destroyer with his immunity to stagger benefits from the Typhoon's sustained DPS ) but then again, most folks i've seen online now prefer to roll with a Revenant on their Destroyer than a Typhoon now.

And the devs. have mentioned this as a suppression weapon (agreed it should be given it's a LMG ) but really? In a game, where every shot fired by an enemy always hits you and gold/platinum is filled with bosses and "mini-bosses" who pretty much disregard cover most of the time just to keep on pummelling you to the ground? I'm sorry but i fail to see the logic here. <_<

[ryoldschool]

What people don't appreciate is that without specter's video we would have to listen to BS like its not nerfed really, etc. The fact that he happened to have it at X and had a solo video on platinum where he took out an atlas by itself before the nerf is the only reason we know the full magnitude of this nerf. Its 1/2 as good as it was.

[Elobart]

xXdmndmnXx wrote...

And the devs. have mentioned this as a suppression weapon (agreed it should be given it's a LMG ) but really? In a game, where every shot fired by an enemy always hits you and gold/platinum is filled with bosses and "mini-bosses" who pretty much disregard cover most of the time just to keep on pummelling you to the ground? I'm sorry but i fail to see the logic here. <_<

Yea, there is no forcing a Prime into cover...
And there sure as hell isn't any standing up in front of it to lay supressing fire on the regular units!

[Gamemako]

ryoldschool wrote...

What people don't appreciate is that without specter's video we would have to listen to BS like its not nerfed really, etc. The fact that he happened to have it at X and had a solo video on platinum where he took out an atlas by itself before the nerf is the only reason we know the full magnitude of this nerf. Its 1/2 as good as it was.

I'd say the wool was pulled over your eyes, but I daresay you were a willing participant.

Specter can easily create a video of him killing an Atlas in one clip now. He can, but he won't, because he just wants an even-more-overpowered gun. Right now, it tops out at 1352.8125 DPS for non-health targets while the Rev puts out 861.25 at maximum. Typhoon X therefore deals 57.1% higher DPS at maximum compared to a Rev X. That ain't balanced. It needs a nerf, not a buff.

[Rifneno]

I'm becoming more and more convinced that Gamemako is actually an incredibly skilled troll.

[IrishDeath420]

Rifneno wrote...

I'm becoming more and more convinced that Gamemako is actually an incredibly skilled troll.

I agree

[Gamemako]

Rifneno wrote...

I'm becoming more and more convinced that Gamemako is actually an incredibly skilled troll.

I'm just the messenger for the math. She's the master troll, I tell ya.

[xXdmndmnXx]

Gamemako wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

I'm becoming more and more convinced that Gamemako is actually an incredibly skilled troll.

I'm just the messenger for the math. She's the master troll, I tell ya.

Haha, i couldnt agree with you more on that

[xXdmndmnXx]

Elobart wrote...

xXdmndmnXx wrote...

And the devs. have mentioned this as a suppression weapon (agreed it should be given it's a LMG ) but really? In a game, where every shot fired by an enemy always hits you and gold/platinum is filled with bosses and "mini-bosses" who pretty much disregard cover most of the time just to keep on pummelling you to the ground? I'm sorry but i fail to see the logic here. <_<

Yea, there is no forcing a Prime into cover...
And there sure as hell isn't any standing up in front of it to lay supressing fire on the regular units!

Pretty much. The only time i've seen this work, to a certain degree mind you, is against Geth when a Paladin plants his maxxed-out omni-shield in front of you to draw enemy fire. And given he is extremely vulnerable in this state to being flanked and fired upon by all the other sides, it's not a very reliable strategy except when a narrow corridor or such is involved (for example, one of the ramps leading to the central rotunda in FB Dagger)

[cbqueue]

it does not need to be adjusted, when playing, i really have to shower an enemy with bullets before they fall, and its such a rare drop, nerfing it further just punishes those lucky enough to already have one

[xis3]

Rifneno wrote...

What's funny is that you an UR should only get one second difference over a rare that most people think sucks.




Your posts are bad and you should feel bad about being bad. That wasn't long range. Long range would be if he was shooting from the sniper position up by the computer console. More to the point though, that was a solo atlas. I imagine the reason he used a solo Atlas is because it's the only one that you can easily get into a position where you can attack it but it can't attack you until it slooooowly luuuummmmmbbbbeeeeeerrrrsssss its right arm into line of sight with you. If this was a banshee or prime or just about anything that was capable of defending itself, he'd have to constantly take over to recover his shields. Which means another warm up period for the gun. Which means that in almost all practical situations, it won't be nearly as good as it was in that video. And it wasn't even very good in that video (post nerf of course).

The Revevenant was lvl 10 and typhoon level 1, there is nothing wrong,

common 1 < uncommon 1 < rare 1 < UR 1
common 10 > uncommon 1 / rare 10 > UR 1


Even if it wasn't long range, he can dps the same at long range as show in his solo but probably not at full potential yea.

But i do agree the nerf was probably way to much, needed, but to much.

[ryoldschool]

This might come as a surprise to some people but it is possible that the game engine does not do what the balance team thinks it does. I am reminded of when Eric Fagnan pm'ed me that the 6th sniper upgrade on cloak was additive. I posted that and godless paladin posted video evidence showing that that could not be true. Eric then did more checking and posted that the 6th cloak sniper upgrade was a multiplier.

So actually the fact that we have video evidence is more important than equations.

[Thoragoros]

xis3 wrote...

The Revevenant was lvl 10 and typhoon level 1, there is nothing wrong,

common 1 < uncommon 1 < rare 1 < UR 1
common 10 > uncommon 1 / rare 10 > UR 1


Even if it wasn't long range, he can dps the same at long range as show in his solo but probably not at full potential yea.

But i do agree the nerf was probably way to much, needed, but to much.

How many people, who don't farm, actually get enough credits to even apprach maxing out their URs?

That aside, the problem with your side of the argument is that most "Good" or what people would call "Elite" players will prefer a Revenant 10 with proper mix of mods and consumables over a Typhoon up until about lvl 3 or 4, and some would even argue level 5.  That, or they go for a different class type.

Personally, with the power drop off I have experienced on my Typhoon, I don't see myself going back to it any time soon, and given how 'rare' these URs, I probably won't be playing ME3 long enough to level it up enough to even get it back where it was.

But again, all of this is almost irrelevant.  The 'community' was having 'fun' with the Destroyer+Typhoon combo.  So why break it?  Why break what people were enjoying?  If people are enjoying, and there is no outcry, then where is the problem?

Modifié par Thoragoros, 04 août 2012 - 05:11 .

[mongosbongos]

The weapon is still pretty lacklustre, even with amps and ammo, I still prefer my harrier I.