901 réponses à ce sujet

[JMC002]

I just unlocked Typhoon VI.

After reading this thread, I might switch my Destroyer from Harrier back to Typhoon.

[Ogrinash]

I said Reeger seemed to be doing 1/3rd or more damage to Armor than Typhoon was (this is after stripping Banshee Shields or just against Brutes).

By all accounts, Reeger should do about the same damage as Typhoon against Armor.

[Annelos]

www.youtube.com/watch - this is what you could do with pre-nerf Typhoon

Amount of the pre-nerf damage Typhoon could do was unparelled - destroying Atlas in several seconds, not to mention more squishy targets so it's definitely good that was nerfed, no matter what the other people say. It was just too damn good.

Soldier class needs a weapon that is good just on them and makes them a valuable addition to the team, but let's keep it like it is now - please do not boost or nerf it anymore - players should not be supposed to go through Platinium like a butter with Typhoon I and simultaneusly they should be able to bring some serious firepower when necessary on that difficulty level.

[the slynx]

Dear BioWare,

I have no problem with the Typhoon nerf, since it still looks like a decent gun and at any rate I don't have it. Neither do I have the Harrier, the game's other widely lauded assault rifle. I suspect many people are in a similar situation: liking general-use assault rifles, and having neither of the best ones unlocked.

Could you give thought to another small damage buff to the other uncommon assault rifles - the multi-purpose ones like the Vindicator and Phaeston (and arguably the Mattock), which feel like well-made, typical assault rifles? I like using them in part because in additional to being fun, they can function in many circumstances, unlike, say, the Revenant, which is really good at close ranges and on characters with accuracy/stability boosts, or the Saber, which is a really good long-range rifle but suffers in other situations.

I know many other players who feel the same way. The recent Uncommon assault rifle buff was nice, but I still think these guns are a little short of the other weapons available to players outside of Bronze. People still seem to use pistols and shotguns more often, and SMGs have become considerably stronger with the new weapon mods available to those guns.

Thanks.

[Dokteur Kill]

To be honest, I'd prefer to see a 15-25% (yes, seriously) damage increase to the other assault rifles before a damage reduction on the few that are actually good. It's the redheaded step-child of weapon categories. Time for someone to show the ARs some love.

[Transairion]

Soldier class needs a weapon that is good just on them and makes them a valuable addition to the team, but let's keep it like it is now - please do not boost or nerf it anymore - players should not be supposed to go through Platinium like a butter with Typhoon I and simultaneusly they should be able to bring some serious firepower when necessary on that difficulty level.

Pray tell, as an avid Soldier nut across 3 games, what Rank I AR is "just good on them" and has the firepower for Platnium? Answer with the Harrier and I mgiht have to shoot myself.

Pre-Destroyer Soldiers are little more than a liability on Gold, and I wouldn't dream of dragging one into Platnium. Finally we get both a heavy-damage automatic AR, and a Soldier that can legitly ignore cooldown completely, and both are nerfed for being too good together. They'd better be good since if you try and tell me ME3 Soldiers are better than ME1/ME2 or even SP ME3 versions, then you're smoking some powerful stuff.

[TommyNg]

Are you test the damage per second only while ignoring the accuracy and ramp up time and weight ?

People need the incentive like the reward of Ultra rare to continue playing . Why player play so hard to get something slightly better or worse than rare weapon X ?

[MajorStupidity]

I do believe that a balancing of the typhoon was necessary (used it extensively on a krogan sentinel on gold before nerf) but now I find the weapon performs adequately if you can keep the sustained fire on a target. There lies the problem, the fact that to dish out such great damage I have to stick my head out for several seconds just to get hit by 3 nemesis and then one shotted by an atlas destroys the theoretical DPS this weapon should be able to dish out. I believe that the damage can be left alone but give the user a base DR (40-75% area) while in cover with the weapon to offset the fact that you have stand out in the open for a great deal of time to dish out good DPS. as it stands it is too heavy to use on casters, and on my destroyer I would rather just go with the revenant X w/ stability mods

[mrwizeguy]

After reading all the posts up to here , i would like for another prespective of the balance changes to be discussed.

I am not going to discuss if said weapon is good or not.

Eric Fagnan wrote...

We've done a lot of internal tests on the N7 Typhoon

Like said 10x before..
Before realasing it or after?.....

IrishDeath420 wrote...

What about those of us who spent a good amount of real $ to unlock the Typhoon just to see its perfomance decreased?

I see your point.New DLC out , player browses the forum , sees all threads envy the new UR , goes to play , gets packs with no luck , decides to spend a few $$ to raise his chanses , gets the said weapon , is happy , 3 days later gets the nerfhammer.

And this is the reason UR weapons balance changes should be as rare as they are and verry well justified.
This should be a principle.

The above also applies to players that do not pay $$ and decide to invest enough gameplay.
I am verry dissapointed at how Bioware handles the MP users.

[PolisMassa]

Well written!

[N7-RedFox]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

Just to clarify a few things on the recent N7 Typhoon balance changes...

We've done a lot of internal tests on the N7 Typhoon comparing it to other assault rifles and other weapons, and even with the recent nerf it is still incredibly powerful. One of the reasons for this is that the weapon has an inherit 50% damage bonus versus armor, shields, and barriers. This far outclasses other weapons in terms of damage bonuses against resistances. The Revenant, for example, does not get this bonus and does regular damage to armor, shields, and barriers.

As always, we'll keep an eye on the balance of the N7 Typhoon, but if you have the weapon please test it out in game against different enemies to see how it feels. The numbers can often be deceiving so it's difficult to tell how effective a weapon is on paper.

Typhoon
After the nerfs, when using my Typhoon III with Destroyer in Devastator mode (damage/RoF/Stability) and with Extended barrel and stabilizer weapon mods + AR Gear V, i still find the weapon kinda weak after recent balance changes. On Gold or Platinum that is.

Geth Hunters dodge with ease and if they hit u, the rev-up time for the weapon starts all over again - same with Primes/Rocket Troopers. And lets face it, the Typhoon is pretty useless unless its at full revs.

Atlas' can destroy you at full health with a couple of shots on Gold/Plat and if they hit you with a missile you'll die even quicker. Not to mention the fact that they can now hit you when you're in crouched cover (really annoying!). Typhoon used to give them a good run for their money. Now it barely makes a dent even after you've layed a whole clip into one.

Typhoon is absolutely horrid vs phantoms. Takes so long to get the weapon up to its max damage revs that you're usually dead before you can take her out. 2 palm cannon shots and its over on Gold/Plat. Again this makes the gun a bad choice in higher difficulty matches - especially since its damage bonus was reduced by 25%. The point is, the weapon is UR and very hard to come by. Therefore its firepower should show its worth. After the balance changes it simply isn't worthy of the UR title.

Krysae
While i'm at it i might as well have a wee rant about how the Krysae is now totally useless thanks to its recent 5-nerfs-in-a-row balance patch.

1) Damage decrease - could have lived with this
2) Recoil increase while zoomed - could have lived with this
3) Recoil increase while not zoomed - could have lived with this
4) Ammo capacity decreased - could have lived with this

5) RoF fire 75% decrease - Absolutely ruined the weapon unnecessarily - please roll this back! The Krysae needs to shoot faster in order to keep you alive in Gold/Plat otherwise the weapon is completely useless

[a-karpen]

So,Eric, what would you say?

[GroverA125]

Can you at least drop the weight a little then? It's far too heavy to be usable on some of the classes out there, even without bringing a sidearm. that, and can you explain why it seems to have zero accuracy reduction when spooled on a destroyer with accuracy specced? He is literally firing at just under carnifex accuracy at max RoF.

As for it's overall power, it just doesn't seem powerful enough to be amazing. It weighs far too much, which limits it to a few classes, and it doesn't work well at long range and in CQB (where enemies will use melee and other methods to kill you while you spool it up) so it needs a sidearm which can deal with these ranges. It's also got quite low ammo effectiveness. Say what you like, you may kill quickly (I don't really believe that it kills as fast as some claim) but you cut through about 25% of your clip doing so, just on specialist infantry (such as rocket troopers). As such, without any mods or levels, you're only getting about 20 kills per full weapon, then you need to refill. Playing a Geth Gold on Goddess, I finished using primarily the Typhoon in last on the team by a significant margin, barely scoring 25 AR kills and being downed many times. Same map, same difficulty, same players, I topped the board with over 50 AR kills and only downing once using the M-76 Revenant. I used both in the same scenarios and the Revenant (considered at best, an above average Assault rifle, and a sub-par weapon overall) did better on the harder difficulty. Considering that the Typhoon should be at least giving the M-76 a run for its money, it really didn't do as much as it should have.

I say give it a buff, not back up to what it was, just a small buff to the basic damage, only about 5%, and a weight drop, from 2.5 standard to 2.2, so that at higher levels, it'll at least become an option for the mid-weight classes dependant on recharge speeds. You don't even need to increase the maximum level so much, but at level 1, it's really not so good, and it seems to have put many off of the weapon (like the Wraith, which is outmatched at low levels, but starts getting better once it hits 5 or so). Make the minimum damage and weight higher, but keep the maximum the same, if you have to.

Modifié par GroverA125, 04 août 2012 - 11:14 .

[Rifneno]

Annelos wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch - this is what you could do with pre-nerf Typhoon

Amount of the pre-nerf damage Typhoon could do was unparelled - destroying Atlas in several seconds, not to mention more squishy targets so it's definitely good that was nerfed, no matter what the other people say. It was just too damn good.

Just what we need.  Someone else who doesn't understand the difference that Warp Rounds IV, ARRA III, and rank X of the typhoon makes.

Seriously.  How is it hard to understand that being part of the 0.001% with maxed out UR's and using so many expendables that you're not even breaking even if you extract has a major impact on the performance?  It seems incredibly simple to me.  But it's like this is nuclear physics to people like this guy.  What's the malfunction here?  Does he not understand how the game works?  Does he think that ammo power is just used to customize the color of your bullets?

God.  I wish you had to pass a test to make sure you understand basic game mechanics before you're allowed to post nonsense like this.   indeed, buddy.   right back at you.

[Atheosis]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

Just to clarify a few things on the recent N7 Typhoon balance changes...

We've done a lot of internal tests on the N7 Typhoon comparing it to other assault rifles and other weapons, and even with the recent nerf it is still incredibly powerful. One of the reasons for this is that the weapon has an inherit 50% damage bonus versus armor, shields, and barriers. This far outclasses other weapons in terms of damage bonuses against resistances. The Revenant, for example, does not get this bonus and does regular damage to armor, shields, and barriers.

As always, we'll keep an eye on the balance of the N7 Typhoon, but if you have the weapon please test it out in game against different enemies to see how it feels. The numbers can often be deceiving so it's difficult to tell how effective a weapon is on paper.

Finally unlocked the Typhoon and tested it with various builds, and I really think you guys messed up.  Ultra rares should feel decent from their very first rank, and unless I'm using this thing on a Destroyer it just feels weak right now.  I think you guys didn't think through the Destroyer/Typhoon synergy before release and now, much like with the Krysae, you have so heavily nerfed a gun that was overpowered on one class so that it is only good on that one class.  That's not balance.  It's actually the opposite of balance.

[Godokay]

Krysae
While i'm at it i might as well have a wee rant about how the Krysae is now totally useless thanks to its recent 5-nerfs-in-a-row balance patch.

1) Damage decrease - could have lived with this
2) Recoil increase while zoomed - could have lived with this
3) Recoil increase while not zoomed - could have lived with this
4) Ammo capacity decreased - could have lived with this

5) RoF fire 75% decrease - Absolutely ruined the weapon unnecessarily - please roll this back! The Krysae needs to shoot faster in order to keep you alive in Gold/Plat otherwise the weapon is completely useless[/quote]

^^^^ THis is wat annoyes me-- u decrease the damage and speed so now ITS SLOW AND WEAK. I tried to use it i really did, but without power or speed its useless. 

[Sp3c7eR]

Gamemako wrote...

Specter can easily create a video of him killing an Atlas in one clip now. He can, but he won't, because he just wants an even-more-overpowered gun. Right now, it tops out at 1352.8125 DPS for non-health targets while the Rev puts out 861.25 at maximum. Typhoon X therefore deals 57.1% higher DPS at maximum compared to a Rev X. That ain't balanced. It needs a nerf, not a buff.

Do you understand the purpose of a comparison test?

Here, I'm spelling out for you yet again: everything has to be kept -the same- otherwise it wouldn't  be a valid comparison. The clip I had before the nerf used the recoil dampener and extended clip mods, so I had to use those in the post-nerf clip. I had to use Barrage V and Warp ammo IV, otherwise test is not valid. I choose Atlas over Banshee due to the reason you stated earlier: to eliminate the variable of player performance. Atlas is the largest and easiest to hit target from the bosses and believe it nor not hardly any bullets missed. If it was a Banshee, you'd see the results of the nerf much more drastically due to Warp blocking weapon damage and Banshee being a slender target. So in essence my video shows the damage drop after the nerf + devastator mode's ROF loss of 5% which I can't do anything about.

It is still not possible to kill an Atlas in 1 clip even with EB + ARRA III unless you seriously want to limit your range. Even so, you will be missing a lot of bullets so your aim can't be true. With that setup you won't be able to hit the broadside of a barn. It is not viable on Platinum so there's no point testing it. But of course, feel free to try it and post the video. I doubt you'll be able to convince people at this point after they've seen video evidence. Math doesn't cut it anymore. 

[Atheosis]

Dokteur Kill wrote...

To be honest, I'd prefer to see a 15-25% (yes, seriously) damage increase to the other assault rifles before a damage reduction on the few that are actually good. It's the redheaded step-child of weapon categories. Time for someone to show the ARs some love.

Indeed.  It's actually very disturbing to me that Fagnan seems to think the Revenant is actually good, and therefore worthy of being balanced against. 

[ObsessiveOne]

 I played with it pre- and post-change and the difference in damage is noticeable. I usually play it with my Destroyer maxed for damage output with a level 5 Warfighter Gear. Atlases on Gold with no additional gear bonuses that would take me a little more than a clip of 240 (I take the extra ammo on my Devastator mode and extra ammo per clip on the Typhoon) now take about a clip and a half. 

For me, the weapon was ideal for soldiers and other non-cooldown dependent classes. Now, it seems slightly above average. I still intend to use it, but I will probably only confine its use to Silver or maybe the occasional Gold match. It's not really viable on Platinum now. 

[xWARx DEMON]

I slightly disagreed on the first nerd by decreasing penetration to 25cm should have been 40 or 50. Not 25. Second nerf I completely disagreed on. Considering ramp up time On harder difficulties. It's really hard to use. The purpose of an ultra rare is to transcend a balance between the harder difficulties and the novice player. A seasoned player will I obtain more pride/honor and challenge using uncommon or common weapons. So having a "hard to obtain/op weapon" is irrelevant to a seasoned player. So ultimately, while some people can understand and agree on your balance logic, having literal balance isn't always the key to having "true" balance among the majority of the players. And I do understand gold and platinum aren't for the many. However, the few were appeased by obtaining a higher difficulty. The many should be rewarded a chance of completing these higher objectives with these hard to obtain weapons. A reward for their consistency playing the game and loyalty. Everyone seems to over complicate everything when it comes down to a very simple question: is everyone enjoying all of the Frivolities me3 has to offer? (no, so stop nerfing).

[Flambirex]

I find it rather odd that neither Derek nor Eric have responded to Sp3c7eR's video evidence of a much harsher nerf than the one they're claiming. Of course this is maybe a timezone thing but I can't see an official response beyond the 3rd page or so.

On topic, as many people have mentioned, does Bioware do ANY pre-release tests? After all, since the Typhoon was included with the Earth DLC there aren't any new gears or consumables that may have made the gun overpowered. Basically, pre-release testing Earth DLC guns/classes should be identical to the metagame right now. Why the sudden decision to drastically cut the gun's performance?

Modifié par Flambirex, 04 août 2012 - 12:44 .

[Yriss]

Question about Sp3c7eR's video. Was the first solo done before the first Typhoon nerf? (So it still had the 1m penetration) If so, then maybe that has contributed to the even greater disparity we see in the comparison video. So it would not be a comparison between Typhoon pre-nerf and post-nerf... but between Typhoon pre-pre-nerf and post-the-last-nerf.

Just a thought.

For the record, I do not have the Typhoon unlocked, so I cannot make any personal judgments on its recent performance. However, from what I've read, I'd like to think that so many people can't be all wrong about its disappointing present performance. I think that if this is the level that they wanted the Typhoon to be at, then they should have released it with these present stats. (I mean, come on, this gun was nerfed within two weeks of release!) It's like being used to high-speed internet and now be forced to be on dial-up.

Anyway, back to trying to unlock this weapon so that I can have a better opinion to discuss...

[Annelos]

Rifneno wrote...

Annelos wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch - this is what you could do with pre-nerf Typhoon

Amount of the pre-nerf damage Typhoon could do was unparelled - destroying Atlas in several seconds, not to mention more squishy targets so it's definitely good that was nerfed, no matter what the other people say. It was just too damn good.

Just what we need.  Someone else who doesn't understand the difference that Warp Rounds IV, ARRA III, and rank X of the typhoon makes.

Seriously.  How is it hard to understand that being part of the 0.001% with maxed out UR's and using so many expendables that you're not even breaking even if you extract has a major impact on the performance?  It seems incredibly simple to me.  But it's like this is nuclear physics to people like this guy.  What's the malfunction here?  Does he not understand how the game works?  Does he think that ammo power is just used to customize the color of your bullets?

God.  I wish you had to pass a test to make sure you understand basic game mechanics before you're allowed to post nonsense like this.   indeed, buddy.   right back at you.

Oh yes, because this game is so hard to understand. Thankfully forum is full of such full-of-themselves guys like you that think using OP weapon in Platinium solo and sticking to one corner of the map is PURE SKILL and guys like me that point out "uh, no dude, it's just that weapon..." are ofc brain dead and just don't understand

Keep your troll-attitude to yourself. I understand what ammo-types do, I'm a regular G&P player and I do well on these difficulty levels but I'm far from taking down Atlas in 5 seconds of constant fire with any other weapon and pre-nerf Typhoon did exacly that.

Any of you guys reading this topic can show me equal speed of taking down Atlas on Platinium with any other weapon , full gear&consumables on?

Thought so.

If you want this game to be easy, stick to the bronze and don't try to mess with the people that actually want some challenge.

[o Revan x]

I have a question, why nerf better weapon instead of buffing weaker ones? I understand you do lot of testing and there should be balance, but there are few useless weapons, you can't even play silver effectively with, isn't it better to focus on this first?

[ryoldschool]

Yriss @ the date on the original video was July 24 the same date as the first nerf was announced. Specter will have to say if it was made before or after it went into effect. Whatever bioware did they reduced its damage by one half.