901 réponses à ce sujet

[Thoragoros]

Cull58 wrote...

BW clearly just play bronze and silver, if indeed they play at all. I doubt they are very good at the game compared to the community. Not voodoo, just skill.

Unfortuantely, this is most likely very true, given how they said "Platinum" would be impossible, and how they apparently lack any understanding regarding the Typhoon-Revenant conundrum that they have created with this most recent Nerf.

Modifié par Thoragoros, 04 août 2012 - 04:52 .

[dspeed93]

The new nerf combined with the gun's high weight makes the harrier a better choice overall. If the gun is gonna be UR then it should be stronger than the rares.

[Cull58]

Gamemako wrote...

Ubergrog wrote...

1. The Typhoon is considered by Bioware to be the most powerful AR in the game, despite it's current weight.

2. taking into account people who don't have the gun, but like to watch UR weapons get nerfed, 99% of the players disagree.

3. Testing suggests that there is something more then just the damage multiplier that was reduced in power.

4. Not a single Bioware representative in this forum has explained why UR weapons are being held to a Rare standard, despite the incredible difficulty in obtaining these weapons. It took 14 PSP's of nothing, and a single Specter pack to get my typhoon up from 6 to 7. I haven't used it since 5 because the Particle Rifle outperforms it on gold and platinum now.

5. People enjoy a weapon that can mop up the larger targets instead of sitting there and poking it for five minutes, taking this away creates a storm of angst (Piranha users are still holding their breath).

6. pre-nerf, it was best used on the following classes: Turian Soldier, Krogan Soldier, Human Soldier (both flavors), Demolisher Engineer, Vorcha Sentinel, Quarian Male Engineer, Geth Infiltrator.

Post-nerf, it is now best used on the following classes: Turian Soldier, Human Soldier (both flavors). Other classes have better weight to damage options.

7. Everyone views Homogenization (All weapons being slowly pushed to doing the exact same damage as their counterparts) as a really bad idea.

8. The fans are asking for the multiplier to be increased between 1.75-2.0.


Final summation: Why do you balance post release if you do in-house testing already?

1. Probably.

2. How you people convince yourselves of this nonsense is beyond me. Stop making absurd claims to attempt to invalidate their opinions.

3. Correct.

4. They aren't. In fact, it's mainly the overpowered DLC weapons in both tiers that make it difficult for some people to get a grasp on the original tiering mechanics. Download a spreadsheet and delete the guns from the most recent two DLCs. You'll immediately see that your assessment is incorrect. The Paladin, for example, quite well stomps the earlier pistol. The difference is just that the recent DLCs have been accompanied by... let's say some very eager hearts over at BioWare.

5. As it turns out, people really like win buttons.

6. It was best used on pretty much anyone as it had the highest DPS in the game, even more ridiculous than the Piranha.

7. Everyone views straw man as evil! Bad straw man! Bad!

8. And most of them should be ignored for having no grasp on any mechanics at all and/or for just wanting an overpowered gun (i.e. they don't really want the gun, they just want the enemies nerfed so they can progressquest harder).

You know, if people really liked the gun, they'd try to use it despite the difference. It's funny, but its seems that nobody actually likes the gun at all. They whine incessantly about it. They think it's big and ugly and gets in the way and handles funny. They hate it. They just want their overpowered back, and for that, they deserve absolutely nothing. <_<

It wasnt overpowered!! Great on one class while having to expose onself for 20 seconds in the open and with a huge weight and rarity is not overpowered!!  God forbid we should have a decent assault rifle in the game.

[DeathScepter]

FelisChausMD wrote...

Return Typhoon to his original state and don't mess with Piranha. Those are N7 weapons - they should be best weapons in the Galaxy. I prefer weapons to be amazing than utterly useless.

that is true. All Rares, N7 and Ultra Rares should be excellent.

[IrishDeath420]

Annelos wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Annelos wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch - this is what you could do with pre-nerf Typhoon

Amount of the pre-nerf damage Typhoon could do was unparelled - destroying Atlas in several seconds, not to mention more squishy targets so it's definitely good that was nerfed, no matter what the other people say. It was just too damn good.

Just what we need.  Someone else who doesn't understand the difference that Warp Rounds IV, ARRA III, and rank X of the typhoon makes.

Seriously.  How is it hard to understand that being part of the 0.001% with maxed out UR's and using so many expendables that you're not even breaking even if you extract has a major impact on the performance?  It seems incredibly simple to me.  But it's like this is nuclear physics to people like this guy.  What's the malfunction here?  Does he not understand how the game works?  Does he think that ammo power is just used to customize the color of your bullets?

God.  I wish you had to pass a test to make sure you understand basic game mechanics before you're allowed to post nonsense like this.   indeed, buddy.   right back at you.

Oh yes, because this game is so hard to understand. Thankfully forum is full of such full-of-themselves guys like you that think using OP weapon in Platinium solo and sticking to one corner of the map is PURE SKILL and guys like me that point out "uh, no dude, it's just that weapon..." are ofc brain dead and just don't understand

Keep your troll-attitude to yourself. I understand what ammo-types do, I'm a regular G&P player and I do well on these difficulty levels but I'm far from taking down Atlas in 5 seconds of constant fire with any other weapon and pre-nerf Typhoon did exacly that.

Any of you guys reading this topic can show me equal speed of taking down Atlas on Platinium with any other weapon , full gear&consumables on?

Thought so.

If you want this game to be easy, stick to the bronze and don't try to mess with the people that actually want some challenge.

If you need this game to be hard stick to Platinum all by yourself. Hell you can use the Drell Vangaurd with only the predetor if you need to.

God forbid the rest of us actually have fun playing this game

[L.ast L.ife]

Thoragoros wrote...

Cull58 wrote...

BW clearly just play bronze and silver, if indeed they play at all. I doubt they are very good at the game compared to the community. Not voodoo, just skill.

Unfortuantely, this is most likely very true, given how they said "Platinum" would be impossible, and how they apparently lack any understanding regarding the Typhoon-Revenant conundrum that they have created with this most recent Nerf.

I'm still not quite finished LOLing over how many people tripped over themselves to believe the hype surrounding Platinum.

[vinlandhammer]

 this is why nerfers fails

6. It was best used on pretty much anyone as it had the highest DPS in the game, even more ridiculous than the Piranha. 

 

typhoon base dmg is over 44 dps with multiplier will be over 66, meanwhile piranha have 425 dps and its an 12 shots automatic.

most dps ?? lets see

AR's that have higher dmg (base damage)

Cerberus Harrier 106.2Collector AR 55.4 Falcon 325.7Mattock 103.6Revenant 63.6 Saber 427.9Striker 144.7 Vindicator 68.6
AR's with less damage:
Phaeston 41.9Particle Rifle 19.3Geth Pulse Rifle 24.1 Avenger 38.6


this is just AR category so please check your facts when you claim that this AR have the highest DPS on the game 

[Ubergrog]

Yes, I am invalidating their argument because most of the people calling for nerfs either don't use the gun on the higher difficulties, or -do not have the gun-.

The gun is not a win button, but suggesting it is makes it likely you don't use it, or never have used it yourself. I can't tell because you don't have a manifest to check.

Some guns will just have a higher DPS. That is part of what makes guns different. If you want a game where there is no difference between guns, this is not the one you should be playing.

I am not exactly sure what you are talking about when it comes to a straw man. People don't like the weapons being lumped together so they all do the same damage. I am starting to think you didn't really read my post.

It's true, many people don't really grasp the game mechanics because most people care more about other things... like "fun".

I can like a gun but not use it. For example: I squee'd like a fangirl when the Particle rifle came out. I viewed it as a great weapon, but compared to the other AR's, practically useless on gold and platinum (which is what I usually play). The Harrier and the Typhoon outperformed it, though I used it occasionally for giggles.

[Poulpor]

I Want my typhoon back, a great UR don't need a nerf !

Now, the gun is so weak.. you sure that 50% armor damage work ? i don't feel that

[Ignisami]

vinlandhammer wrote...

 this is why nerfers fails

6. It was best used on pretty much anyone as it had the highest DPS in the game, even more ridiculous than the Piranha. 

 

typhoon base dmg is over 44 dps with multiplier will be over 66, meanwhile piranha have 425 dps and its an 12 shots automatic.

The Typhoon does not have 44 dps pre-ramp, but 44 dpb or damage per bullet. Multiply dpb with rpm and you get its damage per minute, which you then modify  to get damage per second. 

The Typhoon, even post-nerf, still has the highest AR dps in the game. It's damage per bullet post-ramp is now only slightly higher than the revenant (not taking hidden multiplier into account), but the revenant has much less accuracy at medium to long range, a much lower clip size, a much lower spare clip storage, and no ramp-up. 

[Atheosis]

Ignisami wrote...

vinlandhammer wrote...

 this is why nerfers fails

6. It was best used on pretty much anyone as it had the highest DPS in the game, even more ridiculous than the Piranha. 

 

typhoon base dmg is over 44 dps with multiplier will be over 66, meanwhile piranha have 425 dps and its an 12 shots automatic.

The Typhoon does not have 44 dps pre-ramp, but 44 dpb or damage per bullet. Multiply dpb with rpm and you get its damage per minute, which you then modify  to get damage per second. 

The Typhoon, even post-nerf, still has the highest AR dps in the game. It's damage per bullet post-ramp is now only slightly higher than the revenant (not taking hidden multiplier into account), but the revenant has much less accuracy at medium to long range, a much lower clip size, a much lower spare clip storage, and no ramp-up. 

The Revenant is also half the weight and kind of sucks.  Anyone who thinks that's the standard the Typhoon should be measured by is out of their minds.

[Thoragoros]

Atheosis wrote...

The Revenant is also half the weight and kind of sucks. 

You think the Revenant sucks?  

I don't even know what to say. 

Modifié par Thoragoros, 04 août 2012 - 05:32 .

[Teratoid]

vinlandhammer wrote...

typhoon base dmg is over 44 dps with multiplier will be over 66, meanwhile piranha have 425 dps and its an 12 shots automatic.

most dps ?? lets see

AR's that have higher dmg (base damage)

Cerberus Harrier 106.2Collector AR 55.4 Falcon 325.7Mattock 103.6Revenant 63.6 Saber 427.9Striker 144.7 Vindicator 68.6
AR's with less damage:
Phaeston 41.9Particle Rifle 19.3Geth Pulse Rifle 24.1 Avenger 38.6


this is just AR category so please check your facts when you claim that this AR have the highest DPS on the game 

DPS = Damage per second.

You've listed damage per bullet. 

[Ubergrog]

The Revenant doesn't suck, it's just outperformed by other weapons. It's great as a Rare AR though.

[Gamemako]

Poison_Berrie wrote...

I wasn't specifically talking about shields.

Er, so I'm not sure what you're talking about then.

Poison_Berrie wrote...

According to Tangsters sheet and several other sources (who probably pull this from the Coalesced) it's supposed to debuff armor. 50% for level 3.

Armor weakness and armor reduction are two different stats in the game files. Armor reduction actually affects the DR from armor. Last I checked, the understanding is that armor weakness refers to the ability to crack off armor plates with ease (e.g. shoulder plates on a Brute). It is possible that this is not the case, and it should not be terribly difficult to test since a Brute appears on Wave 2 of Gold Reapers.

Poison_Berrie wrote...

Okay since you were talking about a 50% reduction to DR, which as far as we know it doesn't have, but which Warp ammo is supposed to apply.
So the multiplier only starts adding once the gun has ramped-up.

There is a variable in the files called mindamagereduction. It was previously interpreted as 50% reduction to armor DR. Since this variable apparently is not the 1.5x/1.25x multiplier, it seems likely that the original interpretation is correct.

But yeah, based on Rifnero's finding of no shield multiplier when using only the first rounds, the multipliers are probably both ramp-up.

Poison_Berrie wrote...


My point was whether the defense multiplier also adds the ammo power. In most other cases it won't matter, but when a gun has an innate multiplier against certain defense types the question becomes whether you add ammo damage seperatly or it counts towards max damage.

I understand the issue you raise, but based on specter's pre-nerf video, it is unlikely that the ammo power is not being multiplied. If it were not, each bullet's damage would be reduced by 21.853125.  Because we're already about at the limit to the number of rounds it will take, we would have to find +20 damage somewhere else. The only alternative explanation would be that Warp Ammo's armor weakness not only applies in an unexpected way but also stacks directly with the Typhoon's innate armor reduction. It's not impossible, but it sure is unlikely.

Cull58 wrote...

It wasnt overpowered!! Great on one class
while having to expose onself for 20 seconds in the open and with a huge
weight and rarity is not overpowered!!  God forbid we should have a
decent assault rifle in the game.

Killing a Platinum Atlas in 6 seconds isn't overpowered? Dealing more than twice the DPS of what used to be the damage king isn't overpowered? Are you high?

vinlandhammer wrote...

 this is why nerfers fails

...

this is just AR category so please check your facts when you claim that this AR have the highest DPS on the game [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/uncertain.png[/smilie]

My patience with ignorant responses is wearing thin.

Pre-nerf:
Typhoon X damage per bullet: 55.5
Ramp-up multiplier: 2
Protection multiplier: 1.5
Max rate of fire: 650
DPS: 1803.75

Revenant X damage per bullet: 79.5
Rate of fire: 650
DPS: 861.25

That means the Typhoon X was dealing 109.4% higher DPS than the Rev.

Even now, post-nerf,

Typhoon X damage per bullet: 55.5
Ramp-up multiplier: 1.5
Protection multiplier: 1.25*
Max rate of fire: 650
DPS: 1127.34375

Typhoon X still outdoes the Rev X by 30.9% and is more accurate and has a larger clip to boot.

and since you want other assault rifles,

Saber X damage: 486.2
Saber X rate of fire: 80
Saber X DPS: 648.267

Phaeston X damage: 52.4
Rate of fire: 600
DPS: 524

Now stop talking about things you don't understand.

Modifié par Gamemako, 04 août 2012 - 05:37 .

[Annelos]

Sp3c7eR wrote...

You have Typhoon 1. The video showcases
Typhoon 10. There is quite a big difference. No, you didn't take Atlases
down in 5 seconds with a Typhoon 1 and claiming otherwise without video
evidence is BS.

I've claimed that pre-nerf Typhoon 10 with ammo&gear bonuses did that and I still think it's preposterous.

Gamemako wrote...

Ubergrog wrote...

1. The Typhoon is considered by Bioware to be the most powerful AR in the game, despite it's current weight.

2. taking into account people who don't have the gun, but like to watch UR weapons get nerfed, 99% of the players disagree.

3. Testing suggests that there is something more then just the damage multiplier that was reduced in power.

4. Not a single Bioware representative in this forum has explained why UR weapons are being held to a Rare standard, despite the incredible difficulty in obtaining these weapons. It took 14 PSP's of nothing, and a single Specter pack to get my typhoon up from 6 to 7. I haven't used it since 5 because the Particle Rifle outperforms it on gold and platinum now.

5. People enjoy a weapon that can mop up the larger targets instead of sitting there and poking it for five minutes, taking this away creates a storm of angst (Piranha users are still holding their breath).

6. pre-nerf, it was best used on the following classes: Turian Soldier, Krogan Soldier, Human Soldier (both flavors), Demolisher Engineer, Vorcha Sentinel, Quarian Male Engineer, Geth Infiltrator.

Post-nerf, it is now best used on the following classes: Turian Soldier, Human Soldier (both flavors). Other classes have better weight to damage options.

7. Everyone views Homogenization (All weapons being slowly pushed to doing the exact same damage as their counterparts) as a really bad idea.

8. The fans are asking for the multiplier to be increased between 1.75-2.0.


Final summation: Why do you balance post release if you do in-house testing already?

1. Probably.

2. How you people convince yourselves of this nonsense is beyond me. Stop making absurd claims to attempt to invalidate their opinions.

3. Correct.

4. They aren't. In fact, it's mainly the overpowered DLC weapons in both tiers that make it difficult for some people to get a grasp on the original tiering mechanics. Download a spreadsheet and delete the guns from the most recent two DLCs. You'll immediately see that your assessment is incorrect. The Paladin, for example, quite well stomps the earlier pistol. The difference is just that the recent DLCs have been accompanied by... let's say some very eager hearts over at BioWare.

5. As it turns out, people really like win buttons.

6. It was best used on pretty much anyone as it had the highest DPS in the game, even more ridiculous than the Piranha.

7. Everyone views straw man as evil! Bad straw man! Bad!

8. And most of them should be ignored for having no grasp on any mechanics at all and/or for just wanting an overpowered gun (i.e. they don't really want the gun, they just want the enemies nerfed so they can progressquest harder).

You know, if people really liked the gun, they'd try to use it despite the difference. It's funny, but its seems that nobody actually likes the gun at all. They whine incessantly about it. They think it's big and ugly and gets in the way and handles funny. They hate it. They just want their overpowered back, and for that, they deserve absolutely nothing. <_<

+1 Gameko.

It's incredible how the "beloved gun" that "wasn't OP" suddenly becomes treated like a garbage when it's damage output gets less Godly than it was before...

[Ubergrog]

Gamemako, there is no evidence you even have the typhoon or any of the weapons. You don't have a manifest. As far as I can tell, you're chucking numbers at the wall and hoping they stick.

IF your numbers are correct, the Typhoon's DPS is virtually the same as the Harrier and PPR (in the 1000-1100 range). This is not something to be proud of.

[AwesomeDudex64]

No Eric, bring it back up to par. It's an ultra rare for crying out loud.

Modifié par AwesomeDudex64, 04 août 2012 - 05:48 .

[Bolo Xia]

we gotta give props to BW for trying to directly communicate with the community.

i dont have the typhoon yet, after well over 10 mil maybe even over 15mil since the DLC was released.

so i cannot add anything on the topic other than thanking BW for being concerned enough to make this type of thread and directly asking their community their thoughts on the subject.

[Thoragoros]

Ubergrog wrote...

Gamemako, there is no evidence you even have the typhoon or any of the weapons. You don't have a manifest. As far as I can tell, you're chucking numbers at the wall and hoping they stick.

IF your numbers are correct, the Typhoon's DPS is virtually the same as the Harrier and PPR (in the 1000-1100 range). This is not something to be proud of.

There really is no reason to use the Typhoon anymore, especially since the Harrier is usable/passable on power classes such as Sentinels, doesn't haven't a reidiculous recoil, and has pinpoint accuracy, and since the Revenant has similar DPS with no wind-up and is usable for cqc clutch situations.

[feriwan]

I think it's a good gun.
It's supposed to be a light machine gun, and it fits that description perfectly. It's also ultra rare, so it should be a bit powerful. Maybe another reason it seams so good (for me) is that I only used it with the n7 destroyer, giving it a huge clip of 159 bullets, and its high fire rate makes it able to take down enemies fairly well.

2 things to say though: I once had a glitch where I couldn't hear it firing throughout a whole multiplayer match (I don't know if they fixed it in the meantime)
and 2: I also have a revenant X, and when I compare it with the typhoon, the stats seem to say that they're about the same strength, even though the typhoon is stronger (in my opinion)

Anyway, I think it's perfect the way it is.

[Holy Outlaw]

DeathScepter wrote...

All Rares, N7 and Ultra Rares should be excellent.

Translation: "33 of the 49 weapons in the game should be excellent." That leaves the 11 uncommons, which presumably should also be good, and the 5 starting weapons that need to be utter crap so we can haze newbs.

It's impossible for that many weapons to be excellent. Something is only excellent compared to something else. Do you mean excellent compared to other weapons or to the opposition? Because if you want all weapons better than other weapons that's a dog chasing its tail. If you want all weapons better than the opposition then why not just toggle over to bronze and freely dish out beatdown like the nerf never happened? 

[GroverA125]

Ubergrog wrote...

Gamemako, there is no evidence you even have the typhoon or any of the weapons. You don't have a manifest. As far as I can tell, you're chucking numbers at the wall and hoping they stick.

IF your numbers are correct, the Typhoon's DPS is virtually the same as the Harrier and PPR (in the 1000-1100 range). This is not something to be proud of.

Considering the colossal weight, amount of bullets required to do said DPS and it's effect on the number of kills per full weapon, and the requirement to remain out of cover for sustained periods of time, I'm inclined to agree with you.

In terms of negatives, it's between the Particle Rifle and Harrier: It requires you to be sat out of cover for an extended period of time, and burns through its ammo quickly. Combined with excessive weight and (outside of weaponsmaster use) low sustained-fire accuracy, and it's rather weak, when you consider that it can only cater for one specific type of character: Heavy/non-power dependant units.

By the way, anyone who says that the Saber is a worse weapon is rather misinformed. It's light enough to be considered on mid-weight classes, has high accuracy (meaning that you way as well add on 1.5x its damage to it's DPS for infantry) and does not in any way require sustained fire. You can fire it and pop in and out of cover to a far less costly price than with the Typhoon and other automatic weapons, and it has good ammo efficiency. Don't try to class semi-autos with autos just by looking at damage and DPS. The other variables in there are quite important too.

[Clayless]

It's because it counts as and LMG Bioware, it is supposed to be powerful.

I don't have a Typhoon (only weapon I don't have) but people who have got it make good cases as to why the Revanent is better. It really should be buffed again judging by those comments.