901 réponses à ce sujet

[Rifneno]

Oh look, it's nerf_for_nerf defending nerfs. What a shocker.

Save us the bull****. Even if we took your ballpark guesses as fact, 6 seconds to 10 seconds is still a major difference.

[soldo9149]

death_for_sale wrote...

Sp3c7eR wrote...

Gamemako wrote...

Sp3c7eR wrote...

 Ok, here it is: Typhoon comparison pre- and post-nerf.

Time taken to kill an Atlas: pre-nerf 6.133 seconds. post-nerf 13.00 seconds (12.25 if you reload cancel). You can see how that impacts gameplay for obvious reasons. Watch side by side comparison - it's pretty interesting to see how big of a nerf this really is.

Equipment: Warp ammo IV, AR rail amp III. Gear: Barrage V. Weapon attachments: Stability damper V and extra clip capacity V. 
Destroyer build same in both.

Video is unlisted so you'll only be able to see it using this link.

This is quite misleading because you're solo and counting reload and warmup time.

Please post your build and Typhoon level. I want to see how well the numbers match.

This is anything but misleading. It's actual gameplay as you'd encounter it in a team. You face a boss, you're the destroyer and you have to take it out. This boss pre-nerf would be harassing your teammates for 6.13 seconds. Post-nerf it would harass your teammates or prevent you completing the objective for 13 seconds. How is this misleading? 

Time taken to kill is all that matters in this game. Damage doesn't matter, DPS doesn't matter. It's how fast you get rid of something in your way. And in this case, the nerf made it so that it's impossible to take out a boss enemy with 1 Typhoon clip. So you -have- to count in warm up and reload times. Otherwise what's the point? It would be unrealistic to compare DPS alone. It doesn't tell even half the story.

My Typhoon is level X and my build is: 

Devastator mode: Weapon Accuracy, Rate of Fire, Damage Bonus

Multi Frag Grenade: Force & damage, Max Grenades, Grenade count (didn't use the skill much)

Battlesuit: Weapon Damage, Headshots, Weapon Damage

Internal Systems: Durability, Shield Recharge, Fitness Expert 

You are not factoring in the balance change to Destroyers as well. That is an additional .5 multiplier from RoF. So on a neutral field, the amount of time lost would have been quite a bit less. I would guess about 2 seconds. So the gun previously would have killed the Atlas just above 6 seconds, and with reload cancel and no Destroyer balance it would have taken just above 4 seconds longer.

4 seconds at range is beyond negligible, even on Platinum

Sp3c7eR gave us the best video reference possible, it was one vs one. Using cover so the atlas couldn't get a good shot on him. He was using everything he could to buff the weapons damage with powers and ammo and he already stated on page ten he couldn't do anything about the rate of fire decrease if memory serves me right. Now most players are not as good as Sp3c7eR so adjusting the weapon so a Rare weapon is basically better then a Ultra rare weapon is a horrible idea. Most of us are not going to get it to 10 anytime soon like Sp3c7eR has in the first place.  Now you cannot assume anything about the time if refire rate was not changed since it was nor can you say 4 seconds is negligible because 4 seconds is a lot of time on platinum and any setting even. Yes on bronze it might be a little overkill but the locust can be overpowered on bronze if used by a good player and a class meant to increase weapon damage like the destroyer.

Now what in world is wrong with us players in wanting a good LMG in the game worth its Ultra Rare status. Was it so game breaking that it deserved its damage nerf, the answer is no. Now the wall penetration nerf I can agree with but not the damage nerf itself I cannot. I loved the gun, I loved my M-76 Revenant before I had the Typhoon and this is a bigger version of it so I was happy with it. Right now its barely better and in some cases worse since players cant always wait for a wind up time with how the game works nor can I find a wall to shoot around like in the videos and stay near a ammo box ether so the M-76 Revenant is a better choice in some cases. Change it back to 2.0 damage modifier and let us players enjoy another good assault rifle.

[Eelectrica]

Gamemako wrote...

Sp3c7eR wrote...

All of your DPS calculations assume perfect acccuracy which is a logical fallacy.

Oh, wait, you're missing more with the Typhoon with the Rev? More than with the Piranha? More than the Hurricane? Oh, look, you aren't. The gun is more accurate than any of the competition.

I could respond to the rest of your nonsense, but I'd rather spend my time figuring out the actual mechanics instead of responding to your insane troll logic.

So in Excel, the Typhoon is excellent right? LOL
Apparently the Pirahna is super powerfull at long rang in excel too.
Damn I've been playing ME3 wrong the whole time. Thanks for opening my eyes. Firing up Excel now.

[CharlieCC]

 I have not read all 26 pages of replies so far, but speaking from personal experience, this is the nerf that broke the Typhoon for me.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------July 31, 2012----------------------------------------------------------------------------
N7 Typhoon Assault Rifle- Damage multiplier when fully ramped up decreased from [2.0x] to [1.5x]

Since this nerf, I have skipped over the Typhoon and have been using the Harrier every time.

This nerf essentially made the Typhoon about 75% effect as it was before.

So, now the Harrier can do dmg faster without ramping up speed, and the Typhoon has to ramp up and still kill slower. So the Harrier is less head stuck out from cover, is less chance of dying, is about equal dmg at higher accuracy, therefore more viable for gold/plat.

The -25% dmg is a bit tough for a new weapon to get nerfed on the 2nd week, especially for an Ultra Rare weapon that is suppose to be a great weapon, which now belongs to the "only bronze/silver" pile of weapons.

[IrishDeath420]

death_for_sale wrote...

Sp3c7eR wrote...

Gamemako wrote...

Sp3c7eR wrote...

 Ok, here it is: Typhoon comparison pre- and post-nerf.

Time taken to kill an Atlas: pre-nerf 6.133 seconds. post-nerf 13.00 seconds (12.25 if you reload cancel). You can see how that impacts gameplay for obvious reasons. Watch side by side comparison - it's pretty interesting to see how big of a nerf this really is.

Equipment: Warp ammo IV, AR rail amp III. Gear: Barrage V. Weapon attachments: Stability damper V and extra clip capacity V. 
Destroyer build same in both.

Video is unlisted so you'll only be able to see it using this link.

This is quite misleading because you're solo and counting reload and warmup time.

Please post your build and Typhoon level. I want to see how well the numbers match.

This is anything but misleading. It's actual gameplay as you'd encounter it in a team. You face a boss, you're the destroyer and you have to take it out. This boss pre-nerf would be harassing your teammates for 6.13 seconds. Post-nerf it would harass your teammates or prevent you completing the objective for 13 seconds. How is this misleading? 

Time taken to kill is all that matters in this game. Damage doesn't matter, DPS doesn't matter. It's how fast you get rid of something in your way. And in this case, the nerf made it so that it's impossible to take out a boss enemy with 1 Typhoon clip. So you -have- to count in warm up and reload times. Otherwise what's the point? It would be unrealistic to compare DPS alone. It doesn't tell even half the story.

My Typhoon is level X and my build is: 

Devastator mode: Weapon Accuracy, Rate of Fire, Damage Bonus

Multi Frag Grenade: Force & damage, Max Grenades, Grenade count (didn't use the skill much)

Battlesuit: Weapon Damage, Headshots, Weapon Damage

Internal Systems: Durability, Shield Recharge, Fitness Expert 

You are not factoring in the balance change to Destroyers as well. That is an additional .5 multiplier from RoF. So on a neutral field, the amount of time lost would have been quite a bit less. I would guess about 2 seconds. So the gun previously would have killed the Atlas just above 6 seconds, and with reload cancel and no Destroyer balance it would have taken just above 4 seconds longer.

4 seconds at range is beyond negligible, even on Platinum

 Even if so your assuming every 1 who plays this game knows how to reload cancel and has a level 10 Typhoon.

And the nerf to Devestator mode should be included. How many other classes are you seriously planning on taking the Typhoon with.

Modifié par IrishDeath420, 06 août 2012 - 05:42 .

[Lexa_D]

So I finally got the Typhoon, my impressions. Still quite effective against Reapers on Destroyer with warp ammo. You mostly hit the large targets though, leaving the rest to squadmates, but you can mow down a couple of banshees while backpedaling across large map (Rio, Giant). What to do with hunters and phantoms is an open question though - maybe, just bring Piranha alongside

[Ogrinash]

The question is: is taking down an Atlas in 6 seconds too fast (even with consumables and good passive skills)?

I think it is. Granted, an Atlas can take you down in...1-2 seconds.

[IrishDeath420]

Ogrinash wrote...

The question is: is taking down an Atlas in 6 seconds too fast (even with consumables and good passive skills)?

I think it is. Granted, an Atlas can take you down in...1-2 seconds.

You forgot to mention level X Typhoon with no enemy flankers. And that is only half of the question. The other half is with all circumstances mentioned is 13 seconds too long.

[a-karpen]

Still not a single word from Eric regarding Typhoon issue?

[Lexa_D]

Lexa_D wrote...

So I finally got the Typhoon, my impressions. Still quite effective against Reapers on Destroyer with warp ammo. You mostly hit the large targets though, leaving the rest to squadmates, but you can mow down a couple of banshees while backpedaling across large map (Rio, Giant). What to do with hunters and phantoms is an open question though - maybe, just bring Piranha alongside

Got a question vie PM, so clarifying: Gold - sorry for not mentioning. I might have also backpedalled into an ammocrate too )) 4 grenades are quite a help with bringing down barriers. So it wasn'ta pure test, but it shouldn't be either.

[danray1983]

From what I've read, the typhoon is a shell of its former self. I have STILL not unlocked it, though I've spent over 60,000,000 credits since Earth was released. I still hope to unlock it, and use it on my destroyer. I wish Bioware would fix the store.

[rt604]

death_for_sale wrote...

The estimated 4 seconds is a drop in the bucket, unless you are a player that requires an overpowered weapon to complete a difficulty you shouldn't even be on in the first place. Remember, the game is balanced around Gold so that 4 seconds is going to drop even lower if you use the weapon on it's intended level. Remember, Platinum wasn't supposed to be for everyone to play, it was a challenge mode put out for those players who were tired of how easy Gold was.

But then again, you could also complain that everyone should be able to play Platinum because it pays out more credits. I personally was hoping that Platinum would pay no more credits than Gold, simply because if it did, there would be unskilled players attempting it just for those measly few extra credits. Unskilled players that, as I mentioned before, require a HUGE CRUTCH to cope with any type of challenge above silver.

You may not agree with me, but if you are going to attempt to pass off 4 seconds as a gamebreaker, you are simply flying in the face of logic at 1.3% of Light Speed and will ruin someones day, somewhere and sometime.

You shouldn't restrict players to specific difficulty levels based on skill levels.  If players can accomplish more difficult levels because of better equipment there is nothing wrong with that method at all, other players don't have right to judge or restrict what others can or cannot do, unless it's a detriment to the other players.  It's a game where you can achieve things through a variety of strategies, whether it's through the use of better equipment or skill in what skills to use and when to employ them at varies stages of a game.  

soldo9149 wrote...

Now what in world is wrong with us players in wanting a good LMG in the game worth its Ultra Rare status. Was it so game breaking that it deserved its damage nerf, the answer is no. Now the wall penetration nerf I can agree with but not the damage nerf itself I cannot. I loved the gun, I loved my M-76 Revenant before I had the Typhoon and this is a bigger version of it so I was happy with it. Right now its barely better and in some cases worse since players cant always wait for a wind up time with how the game works nor can I find a wall to shoot around like in the videos and stay near a ammo box ether so the M-76 Revenant is a better choice in some cases. Change it back to 2.0 damage modifier and let us players enjoy another good assault rifle.

 

I agree with this statement.  The Typhoon is an ultra rare item, and levelling it up is a task as well, so it should be powerful.  This kind of reminds me of Diablo 2, when people get really rare items, the item's power should be related to how often the item appears; the less an item drops, the more powerful the equipment should become.  Also, for those that think that if you want to dominate using the Typhoon, drop to bronze or silver, some players want to dominate on Gold and Platinum, they shouldn't have to be forced to choose.  Similarly, they should have flexibility to pick whatever weapons they want that can still accomplish goals on higher difficulties, whether it be with a team or solo.  The more weapons you have to choose from the better, I would rather BW buff weapons, rather than debuff weapons if they want more players to use other types of guns and to balance things out between the different AR's.

[Jetblackmoon]

I think you went a bit overboard with the damage nerf on this gun. I didn't believe it was horrible overpowered before - I liked it a lot on the Destroyer, and it seemed like a weapon meant mainly for Soldiers. Now that the damage has been nerfed, I'd just rather use the Harrier.

[ka243]

This is the probably One of the dumbest nerfs ever because it really effects the viability of destroyers and t soldiers. Both were good with this gun at full power. They are much less good now.

[Xhitaa]

danray1983 wrote...

From what I've read, the typhoon is a shell of its former self. I have STILL not unlocked it, though I've spent over 60,000,000 credits since Earth was released. I still hope to unlock it, and use it on my destroyer. I wish Bioware would fix the store.

Please tell me at least you got all the gear... IT'S DRIVING ME NUTS!!!

EDIT: just saw your manifest...

Modifié par Xhitaa, 06 août 2012 - 09:47 .

[a-karpen]

Xhitaa wrote...

danray1983 wrote...

From what I've read, the typhoon is a shell of its former self. I have STILL not unlocked it, though I've spent over 60,000,000 credits since Earth was released. I still hope to unlock it, and use it on my destroyer. I wish Bioware would fix the store.

Please tell me at least you got all the gear... IT'S DRIVING ME NUTS!!!

EDIT: just saw your manifest...

It's not right, isn't it?

[Xhitaa]

Lkv999 wrote...

Xhitaa wrote...

danray1983 wrote...

From what I've read, the typhoon is a shell of its former self. I have STILL not unlocked it, though I've spent over 60,000,000 credits since Earth was released. I still hope to unlock it, and use it on my destroyer. I wish Bioware would fix the store.

Please tell me at least you got all the gear... IT'S DRIVING ME NUTS!!!

EDIT: just saw your manifest...

It's not right, isn't it?

You know what's really painful? They will quietly fix the drop rate for the uncommon gear and the millions of credits wasted will go unanswered...

[a-karpen]

Xhitaa wrote...

Lkv999 wrote...

Xhitaa wrote...

danray1983 wrote...

From what I've read, the typhoon is a shell of its former self. I have STILL not unlocked it, though I've spent over 60,000,000 credits since Earth was released. I still hope to unlock it, and use it on my destroyer. I wish Bioware would fix the store.

Please tell me at least you got all the gear... IT'S DRIVING ME NUTS!!!

EDIT: just saw your manifest...

It's not right, isn't it?

You know what's really painful? They will quietly fix the drop rate for the uncommon gear and the millions of credits wasted will go unanswered...

Yeah,you are sooo right

But that's will be IF they fix the droprate, because they can quietly ignore all the rage on forums. I personally hope that tey will also fix the droprate for URs after everything else,or almost anything is maxed out.

[ShadowHound]

Why does this thread even matter if the people who make the weapon think its too powerful or powerful enough? Kind of redundant me thinks. I understand about feedback and all but come on.

The gun was awesome before the respec and its still awesome but with a little less power. Totally useless on gold/platinum stripped down to its bare bones (no mods). If the gears work they way they should then that .5 that was taken away show be repleaced by the AR amp V right?

I think this is all a mind thing. Eric releases repec for Typhoon and people see numbers so in their mind its going to do less damage which it does obviously. They test it with the new numbers in their head and now they think it sucks because all they can think of is 1.5x. But I wonder if he had never released those number and just did it would people even notive the change? It still has AP and it still takes down pretty fast.