901 réponses à ce sujet

[Kaizer88]

Sp3c7er summed it up perfectly. Did you do your damage tests on targets standing still and not fighting back? Empirical evidence from top players tells you that the nerf gutted the weapon. The ramp up time makes it extremely poor for taking out the legion of mooks you face in gold, and the long time you rev up gets you shot to pieces on platinum.

Before the nerf you'd only use the Typhoon on Destroyers or Turian soldiers, and MAYBE on Demolishers if you didn't have a cerberus harrier. After the nerf, the harrier blows it out of the water on all those classes.

[IrishDeath420]

Immortal Strife wrote...

I just want say, I love it when you guys (Bioware Devs) posts on the forum. I absolutely agree, the Typhoon is an awsome gun, even post nerf. Now can we get someone to look into the Pirahna, the weight and DPS are insanely too good, the gun destroys on platinum with 90% of the characters.

If you think a weapon is too powerful then don't use it

[3XT3RM1N4TUS]

Immortal Strife wrote...

I just want say, I love it when you guys (Bioware Devs) posts on the forum. I absolutely agree, the Typhoon is an awsome gun, even post nerf. Now can we get someone to look into the Pirahna, the weight and DPS are insanely too good, the gun destroys on platinum with 90% of the characters.

Lowly lickspittle and nerfduck.

[ryanb519]

I loved this gun pre-nerf. In my opinion it should be somewhat OP. There are several reasons for me thinking that. The thing weighs a ton, and with the ramp up, you're left hanging out in the open. It's UR, so of course it's hard to level up. UR's should outshine the other weapons, otherwise just make them rares. And this gun is only decent on about 3, maybe 4 classes. The gun is made for the Destroyer and that's pretty much the only class I run it on, but it's also decent on human and turian soldiers. It's ok on Demolisher, but she's not built like a tank, so the ramp up leaves her very vulnerable. On demolisher, I prefer the Harrier.

[a-karpen]

I've been testing it write now, and what can I say - now it's usable ONLY on Destroyer, anything else and you are dead before the gun even warms up,or you can't warm it up properly because you are being stunned. I guess,and many may agree with me - a weapon for one character is not a balanced weapon. On the contrary,it is a great disbalance. And for many people it is really not an option anymore - it's like a glass cannon. So I would recommend buffing it's damage multiplier at least to 1.75 or 1.8, although 2.0 would be much better. You want to balance a game - make this weapon wothy it's UR status, for everybody. Even pre-nerf it was suited for limited number of characters, but now...

[Sp3c7eR]

holdenagincourt wrote...
I'm aware of the disadvantages, but those would be more appropriately addressed through a decrease to the ramp up delay or lowered weight. Rolling back the changes made thus far while increasing its ramp up time would mainly benefit camping strategies, which are dominant enough right now.

Bioware stated earlier they considered the Typhoon to be in a category of "supressive fire" LMGs which need to be deployed. Obviously you can't do that without camping. But if the gun's original purpose as imagined by Bioware was to hold a position then my suggestion is sound. If you think their original idea of this gun is the problem, then that is a whole different matter and doesn't really belong in this topic.

Decreasing the ramp up time would eliminate the niche of the gun and would further blur the border between Revenant & Typhoon. Lowered weight would serve no purpose because I guarantee you won't see biotics running around with it. A gun with any sort of ramp up time & the need for continuous fire to see results is not a good match with power-spamming classes.

[HamSlammer]

If it's of the Ultra Rare variety (a fitting name since it's the only black card I've yet to see) shouldn't it be better than a good portion of that weapon class?

Either buff the damage output or eliminate the wind up.

[Skullheart]

I stopped used the typhoon after the nerf. I can kill boss faster with the Revi or Harrier.

LMGs are supposed to tear enemies apart. The Typhoon doesn't do that anymore since the nerf. I was ok with the penetration nerf, but the second just made the weapon not worthy of the UR status.

[Seifer006]

Immortal Strife wrote...

I just want say, I love it when you guys (Bioware Devs) posts on the forum. I absolutely agree, the Typhoon is an awesome gun, even post nerf. Now can we get someone to look into the Pirahna, the weight and DPS are insanely too good, the gun destroys on platinum with 90% of the characters.

Pirahna is fine. why does every new gun that comes out need to be rebalance. there's many other guns Bioware should look into then Pirahna...

[Miyoruhashi]

I guess I was one of the fortunate ones who unlocked it early on, so I got to play with it with my N7 Destroyer class as well as the Turian and Human Solider classes. The gun initially was waaaay OP. With Destroyer mode engaged, I took an Atlas down with less than a full clip. If I hit the cockpit window only, I was "destroying" an Atlas in less than 6 seconds. So I KNEW this was getting nerfed in short order.

Post-nerf, I can still take down an Atlas or a Banshee with a full clip-and-a-half, with an ammo mod (say, Warp Ammo mode for example). With my N7 Destroyer maxed out with shields, I can pump a whole clip into a Banshee and take a biotic blast or a direct missle hit from an Atlas (causing only 50% damage to shields...full health mind you) and still keep melting my target.

It gets a little hairy on Platinum with multiple bosses, but that Typhoon seriously rocks even though it's nerfed QUITE a bit. I appreciate the lengths that Eric Fagnan and Derek Holland and others on the gameplay team go when it comes to ensuring that the player's gameplay experience is the most challenging and yet most rewarding possible.

I wasn't happy about the damage reduction done to the Typhoon, but because they've done it, I am back to a more thought-provoking gameplay mindset where I still have to really evaluate my combat skills with each class I do combat with.

The Typhoon is still the most powerful AR in the arsenal. The most unfortunate side-effects IMO are:
1) the decreased damage done to a target at a distance (the closer your target is to you, the more effective the Typhoon is)

2) the DPS performed on a heavily shielded target.

3) the slow ramp up of the weapon itself, which is not a good attribute in CQB where you almost always need a quick/immediate response from your AR. But this was the case since the weapon's inception so this is a moot point anyway. (I'm just sayin'...) :-)

[Booshnickins]

Killahead wrote...

Seifer006 wrote...

Killahead wrote...

Seifer006 wrote...

I still don't understand why an Ultra Rare needed a nerf. Their UR which means they should be OP.
.

I think Bioware would tell you that they don't want anything to be OP. And why players would want OP weapons puzzles me.

UR weapons aren't made for Bronze/Silver Killahead.
It's made for Gold/Platinum. I would never take a UR on Bronze/Silver............it would defeat the purpose of what's it's intended for.

the Typhoon was made for Platinum (to take down Boss Type) enemies. That's what it's purpose was for. Because the nerf, that purpose is gone.

Read the other posts from Elite players, they're in agreement with me on this. This weapon shined on Platinum...it's glory has faded because of the unecessary Nerf

I am not talking about the Typhoon, I am talking about the notion of OP being OK. Maybe you have a different definition of OP than me in mind. When something is considered OP it is the one setup/ gun/ whatever that dominate all others and the variety in a game suffers from it. There were a lot of Krysae-wielding Infiltrators in gold games before it got nerfed and it made the game less enjoyable.

I haven't tried out the Typhoon after the nerf, but it certainly was extremely good before, personally I don't find taking down an Atlas in a matter of seconds (on platinum, nonetheless) very fun. Maybe the nerf was too heavy handed, I will have to try it out again to make up my opinion on that, but surely no one wants it to be OP and invalidate all other options.

The problem with your idea is that you want things nerfed because of how one particular class, if setup up a certain way, performs with a specific weapon. So "balancing" that weapon to that one very specific setup is just ignorant. That same weapon can be just fine with that same class setup differently or any other class for that matter. Yet when you tweak a weapon for one build, it generally renders it useless on all other classes and builds. Now how is that "balanced"?

[WickedTruth 823]

Re-tried the weapon with as many amps as I could stack on to my destroyer, also different ammo types...

Conclusion: No... Will leave on shelf as a keepsake...

Back to two shotting enemies with a Saber I guess...

[Seifer006]

Booshnickins wrote...

Killahead wrote...

Seifer006 wrote...

Killahead wrote...

Seifer006 wrote...

I still don't understand why an Ultra Rare needed a nerf. Their UR which means they should be OP.
.

I think Bioware would tell you that they don't want anything to be OP. And why players would want OP weapons puzzles me.

UR weapons aren't made for Bronze/Silver Killahead.
It's made for Gold/Platinum. I would never take a UR on Bronze/Silver............it would defeat the purpose of what's it's intended for.

the Typhoon was made for Platinum (to take down Boss Type) enemies. That's what it's purpose was for. Because the nerf, that purpose is gone.

Read the other posts from Elite players, they're in agreement with me on this. This weapon shined on Platinum...it's glory has faded because of the unecessary Nerf

I am not talking about the Typhoon, I am talking about the notion of OP being OK. Maybe you have a different definition of OP than me in mind. When something is considered OP it is the one setup/ gun/ whatever that dominate all others and the variety in a game suffers from it. There were a lot of Krysae-wielding Infiltrators in gold games before it got nerfed and it made the game less enjoyable.

I haven't tried out the Typhoon after the nerf, but it certainly was extremely good before, personally I don't find taking down an Atlas in a matter of seconds (on platinum, nonetheless) very fun. Maybe the nerf was too heavy handed, I will have to try it out again to make up my opinion on that, but surely no one wants it to be OP and invalidate all other options.

The problem with your idea is that you want things nerfed because of how one particular class, if setup up a certain way, performs with a specific weapon. So "balancing" that weapon to that one very specific setup is just ignorant. That same weapon can be just fine with that same class setup differently or any other class for that matter. Yet when you tweak a weapon for one build, it generally renders it useless on all other classes and builds. Now how is that "balanced"?

Kaizer88 wrote...

Sp3c7er summed it up perfectly. Did you
do your damage tests on targets standing still and not fighting back?
Empirical evidence from top players tells you that the nerf gutted the
weapon. The ramp up time makes it extremely poor for taking out the
legion of mooks you face in gold, and the long time you rev up gets you
shot to pieces on platinum.

Before the nerf you'd only use the
Typhoon on Destroyers or Turian soldiers, and MAYBE on Demolishers if
you didn't have a cerberus harrier. After the nerf, the harrier blows it
out of the water on all those classes.

[Ares Caesar]

Sp3c7eR wrote...

holdenagincourt wrote...
I'm aware of the disadvantages, but those would be more appropriately addressed through a decrease to the ramp up delay or lowered weight. Rolling back the changes made thus far while increasing its ramp up time would mainly benefit camping strategies, which are dominant enough right now.

Bioware stated earlier they considered the Typhoon to be in a category of "supressive fire" LMGs which need to be deployed. Obviously you can't do that without camping. But if the gun's original purpose as imagined by Bioware was to hold a position then my suggestion is sound. If you think their original idea of this gun is the problem, then that is a whole different matter and doesn't really belong in this topic.

Decreasing the ramp up time would eliminate the niche of the gun and would further blur the border between Revenant & Typhoon. Lowered weight would serve no purpose because I guarantee you won't see biotics running around with it. A gun with any sort of ramp up time & the need for continuous fire to see results is not a good match with power-spamming classes.

This has been my biggest justification for "re-re-balancing" the Typhoons damage. Changing it to be more like a Revenant (or any other large clip weapon- Tempest) , just makes it that much less interesting and varied from its alternatives. The "ramp up" in terms of both RoF AND Damage Multiplier are what made it an interesting "Risk vs Reward" scenario of "low burst DPS vs high sustained DPS"

The Typhoon was only useable by a few classes, and only "overpowered" on one class in particular (Destroyer), because of a PERFECT STORM of abilities (Immune to Stagger, RoF bonuses, Damage Bonuses, Accuracy Bonuses, Mag Cap. Bonuses, and weight being completely irrelevant).... for every other class there is SOMETHING not in the mix there which makes it FAR less "overpowered" in its pre-nerf state.

Right now as it stands, the Typhoon is only "good" on a Destroyer, every other class is better off taking a Revenant, Harrier, Saber or virtually anything with a higher "burst DPS"... because the Destroyer is the ONLY class capable of constantly exploiting its sustained DPS.

Change back the damage multiplier and increase the "ramp up" time (both time for RoF to fully rev up, and for the damage multiplier to kick in).  Keeps it more of an "original" weapon, while still offering an incentive for the risk involved to acquire the reward of the high sustained DPS>

[holdenagincourt]

PKTracer wrote...

This gun also discourages camping since the player is exposed when using this weapon.  But when you say camping, do you mean using cover?  That's not camping; that's strategy.  Since this gun puts the player in the open, it means the player has to have some cover when the shield gate goes.  I don't think that's camping so much as playing to the strengths and weaknesses of the gun.

No, I mean camping as in staying in one place and decimating all comers. The poor enemy AI means that this can be done with little risk at all difficulties, and a lot of the content added in the DLCs has made it nearly trivial.

Sp3c7eR wrote...

Bioware stated earlier they considered the Typhoon to be in a category of "supressive fire" LMGs which need to be deployed. Obviously you can't do that without camping. But if the gun's original purpose as imagined by Bioware was to hold a position then my suggestion is sound. If you think their original idea of this gun is the problem, then that is a whole different matter and doesn't really belong in this topic.

Decreasing the ramp up time would eliminate the niche of the gun and would further blur the border between Revenant & Typhoon. Lowered weight would serve no purpose because I guarantee you won't see biotics running around with it. A gun with any sort of ramp up time & the need for continuous fire to see results is not a good match with power-spamming classes.

Based on Eric's statements, I think the likelihood of the changes to the Typhoon being rolled back any time in the near future are slim to none, which is why I'm arguing for alternatives. Whether it still fits a specific niche or not is a nice consideration, but I think secondary to whether it's an appropriately balanced weapon and accessible to more than a handful of classes. If that means I'm doubting the weapon's original concept, so be it.

[RxP4IN]

I wish you guys could find more creative ways of balancing guns and giving them niche rolls other than simply lowering damage, fire-rate, and adjusting weight.

Perfect example of great weapon design, the Acolyte. Who ever designed that deserves a raise.

[Icematt12]

Could we have number info on all publically known guns please. I seem to remember a thread for the guns in ME2 (such as saying the Locust had 1.25 multiplier on resistances when other SMGs had 1.5 on shield and barriers).

[notorious_thug123]

Can you guys buff it to 1.75 multiplier, up the weight a little. And give us level IV weapon amps? I'd be happy with that. Seriously.

Edit: since the nerf I've used it probably 5 times. I've been using my hurricane more than the typhoon. It just doesn't have that same umph anymore, sad really for being the great ultra rare it was.

Modifié par notorious_thug123, 03 août 2012 - 07:37 .

[tcbo1les]

Well using (lvl-2 Typhoon) with my Destroyer (setup with max fitness and amo) on Plat has been a lot harder post nerf. So generally the nerf was overdone IMO, I'll try some different AR's and compare them depending on how my regular team feels. We did try a Plat with two Destroyers using Typoons and were able to keep most boss'es from overruning our positions but that strained the overall team balance to deal with all the stuff that Plat throws at us.

[Gockey]

Sp3c7eR wrote...

Eric, with all due respect, the weapon right now feels useless as compared to before. A Typhoon cannot take out an Atlas as quickly as before, has poor mobility and poor accuracy. Revenant outclasses it in mobility alone and at mid range it can take down bosses just as quickly. So I can't really see the 50% inherent bonus damage to protections because I played with both last night.

Before, it took me 160 bullets to kill an Atlas. Right now 220 bullets leave an Atlas with half armor. The damage output has been reduced drastically, including damage versus mooks. 

To get the best out of the weapon you need to keep firing as opposed to any other assault rifle due to the ramp-up time. That, along with the fact it's an ultra rare should guarantee high damage output like it had before. Right now it's just a bad weapon to use, there are other weapons that do its job more efficiently without the necessity of you being exposed, taking fire or ramping up the weapon while a phantom's slashing at you.

Please consider increasing the ramp-up time to further reduce it's mobility (slightly) so the "hold position and supress" element is emphasised, but reverse the nerfs to damage and penetration. That way it will keep its niche as a deployable machine gun.

Thanks for opening a discussion about this.

 


This.  

[Immortal Strife]

IrishDeath420 wrote...

Immortal Strife wrote...

I just want say, I love it when you guys (Bioware Devs) posts on the forum. I absolutely agree, the Typhoon is an awsome gun, even post nerf. Now can we get someone to look into the Pirahna, the weight and DPS are insanely too good, the gun destroys on platinum with 90% of the characters.

If you think a weapon is too powerful then don't use it

Excuss me for wanting to see if a Dev would reply and comment on the current state of the Pirahna. Which btw has always drops an Atlas faster than the Typhoon-maybe not at range but nonetheless. I find my point about it being OP is verymuch rational and relavent for the topic at hand.

Modifié par Immortal Strife, 03 août 2012 - 07:41 .

[Gockey]

Immortal Strife wrote...

IrishDeath420 wrote...

Immortal Strife wrote...

I just want say, I love it when you guys (Bioware Devs) posts on the forum. I absolutely agree, the Typhoon is an awsome gun, even post nerf. Now can we get someone to look into the Pirahna, the weight and DPS are insanely too good, the gun destroys on platinum with 90% of the characters.

If you think a weapon is too powerful then don't use it

N
Excuss me for wanting to see if a Dev would reply and comment on the current state of the Pirahna. Which btw has always drops an Atlas faster than the Typhoon-maybe not at range but nonetheless.So my point about is being OP is rational and relavent for the topic at hand.

No.  It's tangent at best, and at worst completely off topic.  Personally I think the latter.

[Sulaco_7]

Is the 50% innate damage against armor, shields, barriers different than what the AP mod does? In other words, if I equip an AP mod to the gun, will it do even more damage against armor (in addition to the innate damage)?