215 réponses à ce sujet

[UKStory135]

AshirahTSparkle wrote...

So does it mean that because it's OP on the GI, we have to nerf the gun?

If that's the case, all guns would be nerfed to locust and incisor levels. 

[GodlessPaladin]

It's not just OP on the GI. It's OP for most characters. I see 3 or 4 of them in every lobby even with no Infiltrators in a lobby.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 04 août 2012 - 02:49 .

[Digitalis32]

the funny thing is that most GI that I have encountered on Gold that are using the Piranha X often end up dead by the 7~9th wave - Geth aren't all that well suited to close quarters combat, as soon as that shield goes down they are toast.

I only use the Piranha on the Destroyer and Krogans, I use the widow/Javelin on Geth/Quarian infiltrators.

Like most mathematical calculations, the reality of using the pirhana on the GI is that you still have to be pretty close to your target to get all the pellets to hit it - and you also have to dodge husks/cannibals/marauders and fire from ravagers while you are doing it. Also the GI doesn't get destroyer mode so the number of shots from a clip is limited, and there is also an accuracy penalty.

Modifié par Digitalis32, 04 août 2012 - 02:40 .

[Pedro Costa]

The problem is that ANY weapon - I repeat, ANY weapon - is OP on a Geth Infiltrator.

If we're going to balance all good weapons with a decent weight for power-dependant classes to carry around a single weapon-focused character, all power-dependant classes will have crap weapons.

I don't find that appealing or smart. Geth Infiltrators themselves are what is OP, not the weapons they carry.

Edit - GP, even if many characters use it effectively, I still disagree it should be nerfed. Truth is... it's the other weapons that need to be enhanced. The Piranha is one of the very few weapons for power-dependant characters that has a good damage/weight ratio AND a good damage output.

Modifié par DarkLord_PT, 04 août 2012 - 02:38 .

[Grunt_Platform]

DarkLord_PT wrote...

The problem is that ANY weapon - I repeat, ANY weapon - is OP on a Geth Infiltrator.

If we're going to balance all good weapons with a decent weight for power-dependant classes to carry around a single weapon-focused character, all power-dependant classes will have crap weapons.

I don't find that appealing or smart. Geth Infiltrators themselves are what is OP, not the weapons they carry.

Edit - GP, even if many characters use it effectively, I still disagree it should be nerfed. Truth is... it's the other weapons that need to be enhanced. The Piranha is one of the very few weapons for power-dependant characters that has a good damage/weight ratio AND a good damage output.

So... you're saying the Claymore, one of the strongest guns in the game, and the previous best shotgun, needs a buff? just so it can compete with a weapon with less than half its weight?

Modifié par EvanKester, 04 août 2012 - 02:40 .

[DivineAtropos]

Digitalis32 wrote...

the funny thing is that most GI that I have encountered on Gold that are using the Piranha X often end up dead by the 7~9th wave - Geth aren't all that well suited to close quarters combat, as soon as that shield goes down they are toast.

I only use the Piranha on the Destroyer and Krogans, I use the widow/Javelin on Geth/Quarian infiltrators

That just means the GIs you play with think they're invincible. If you leave yourself room to maneuver and stay covered, don't try and rambo the entire wave, and realize that retreating is an acceptable and recommended strategy, then a GI is no more dangerous to play than any other class.

[Achire]

There already are good caster weapons such as the Talon, the Scorpion, the Paladin and now the Acolyte. The weapon with the highest DPS in the entire game really should not be usable by casters.

@OP, AP Ammo III reduces the armor penalty by 70%.

[Mozts]

It appears to be that Piranha is way to light. Can use it on caster without weight reduction passives and still get great CD.

[GodlessPaladin]

You're pretending it's only an issue on the GI.  The Piranha's great for just about everyone, including casters with no accuracy bonuses.  Compare it to the Wraith, which weighs the same and is a quite good caster weapon. 

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 04 août 2012 - 02:47 .

[AshirahTSparkle]

DarkLord_PT wrote...



If we're going to balance all good weapons with a decent weight for power-dependant classes to carry around a single weapon-focused character, all power-dependant classes will have crap weapons.

I wonder if this is what nerfers are aiming for. Caster-classes can only have crap weapons.

[CC-Tron]

AshirahTSparkle wrote...

DarkLord_PT wrote...



If we're going to balance all good weapons with a decent weight for power-dependant classes to carry around a single weapon-focused character, all power-dependant classes will have crap weapons.

I wonder if this is what nerfers are aiming for. Caster-classes can only have crap weapons.

Yep. That's why they keep calling for weight nerfs. So the kroguards stop kicking their asses on the score boards.

[ExpiredLifetime]

Achire wrote...

There already are good caster weapons such as the Talon, the Scorpion, the Paladin and now the Acolyte. The weapon with the highest DPS in the entire game really should not be usable by casters.

@OP, AP Ammo III reduces the armor penalty by 70%.

Thanks. AP III ammo brings it to 13424 for the Piranha, 8824 for the Claymore.
And I too agree that the gun is far too light. And as previously stated, I think there should be a massive accuracy penalty for hip firing. Make the recoil one of the things you need to learn to control to be able to use the gun correctly, not just be able to hip fire it and have no downfall.

Modifié par ExpiredLifetime, 04 août 2012 - 02:49 .

[Achire]

Look, I agree that power classes aren't as good as weapon classes. The solution to this is to buff combo damage and to buff powers; the solution is not to give everyone a weapon that has an insanely high DPS with very low weight.

Modifié par Achire, 04 août 2012 - 02:51 .

[Pedro Costa]

EvanKester wrote...
So... you're saying the Claymore, one of the strongest guns in the game, and the previous best shotgun, needs a buff? just so it can compete with a weapon with less than half its weight?

Not my intention to - at least, not on what concerns its damage output. Maybe its weight, tho =P

No, I'm talking about the other light shotguns, and them only. My appologies.

Achire wrote...
There already are good caster weapons such as the Talon, the Scorpion, the Paladin and now the Acolyte. The weapon with the highest DPS in the entire game really should not be usable by casters.

 
Sadly, all of them are heavy pistols.

GodlessPaladin wrote...

You're pretending it's only an issue on the GI.  The Piranha's great for everyone, including casters with no accuracy bonuses.  Compare it to the Wraith, which weighs the same and is a quite good caster weapon.  

 
Please, I'm not trying to make such a claim, although, in retrospective, that might be what it looked like. All I'm saying is that using a character/class well known to make almost any weapon good-to-overpowered isn't the best one to run balancing tests with.

And I have yet to unlock the Wraith...
For what it's worth, my piranha is only at lv1, so maybe it is OP at lv10, but I just am not seeing it right now...

Appologies for any confusion.

edit - I very much doubt Achire and GP want to cripple power-classes, I've been in several discussions with both and never got that impression.

Modifié par DarkLord_PT, 04 août 2012 - 02:53 .

[GodlessPaladin]

CC-Tron wrote...

AshirahTSparkle wrote...

DarkLord_PT wrote...



If we're going to balance all good weapons with a decent weight for power-dependant classes to carry around a single weapon-focused character, all power-dependant classes will have crap weapons.

I wonder if this is what nerfers are aiming for. Caster-classes can only have crap weapons.

Yep. That's why they keep calling for weight nerfs. So the kroguards stop kicking their asses on the score boards.

We can't have a discussion if you respond to a "they."  I personally think a damage nerf would be more appropriate.

[Digitalis32]

AshirahTSparkle wrote...

DarkLord_PT wrote...



If we're going to balance all good weapons with a decent weight for power-dependant classes to carry around a single weapon-focused character, all power-dependant classes will have crap weapons.

I wonder if this is what nerfers are aiming for. Caster-classes can only have crap weapons.

it certainly looks like that is what they are aiming for - and in the end everyone will stop playing caster classes because of the crap weapons and it will kill all the diversity in play styles - ever wonder why you almost never see a vorcha in gold lobbies these days?

Edit: I play PC and I have only come across two vorcha players in Gold in the past week.

Modifié par Digitalis32, 04 août 2012 - 02:53 .

[Eckswhyzed]

CC-Tron wrote...

AshirahTSparkle wrote...

DarkLord_PT wrote...

If we're going to balance all good weapons with a decent weight for power-dependant classes to carry around a single weapon-focused character, all power-dependant classes will have crap weapons.

I wonder if this is what nerfers are aiming for. Caster-classes can only have crap weapons.

Yep. That's why they keep calling for weight nerfs. So the kroguards stop kicking their asses on the score boards.

[citation needed]

Modifié par Eckswhyzed, 04 août 2012 - 02:52 .

[GodlessPaladin]

DarkLord_PT wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...



You're pretending it's only an
issue on the GI.  The Piranha's great for everyone, including casters
with no accuracy bonuses.  Compare it to the Wraith, which weighs the
same and is a quite good caster weapon.  

 

Please, I'm not trying to make such a claim

  Wasn't responding to you.  Was responding to this:

AshirahTSparkle wrote...

So does it mean that because it's OP on the GI, we have to nerf the gun?

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 04 août 2012 - 02:53 .

[CC-Tron]

Achire wrote...

Look, I agree that power classes aren't as good as weapon classes. The solution to this is to buff combo damage and to buff powers; the solution is not to give everyone a weapon that has an insanely high DPS.

Says you. What difference does it make? Buff powers or weapons and the end result is the power based classes would be killing more enemies. C'mon man.

[ExpiredLifetime]

GodlessPaladin wrote...
I personally think a damage nerf would be more appropriate.

I'm going to keep bringing up the accuracy issue. Consider this: if the spread of the gun was doubled, then your effective range would be halved. You could no longer take 30m shots with it on a class with no accuracy bonus and effectively kill something, it would be reserved as a highly inaccurate, highly powerful CQC weapon. Very high risk, very high reward.

[GodlessPaladin]

ExpiredLifetime wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...
I personally think a damage nerf would be more appropriate.

I'm going to keep bringing up the accuracy issue. Consider this: if the spread of the gun was doubled, then your effective range would be halved. You could no longer take 30m shots with it on a class with no accuracy bonus and effectively kill something, it would be reserved as a highly inaccurate, highly powerful CQC weapon. Very high risk, very high reward.

And when I get a 100% accuracy bonus?

Really though, this suggestion is the one that would hurt guys other than the GI.  The GI doesn't mind walking right up to someone and blasting them in the face with a 75% accuracy bonus, but the casters people are saying they want to protect the interests of would definitely care.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 04 août 2012 - 02:58 .

[Grunt_Platform]

DarkLord_PT wrote...
Not my intention to - at least, not on what concerns its damage output. Maybe its weight, tho =P

No, I'm talking about the other light shotguns, and them only. My appologies.

Ah! that was unclear, thanks for clarifying. Yeah, the other light shotguns need a serious buff, especially the Scimitar and Eviscerator.

And I have yet to unlock the Wraith...
For what it's worth, my piranha is only at lv1, so maybe it is OP at lv10, but I just am not seeing it right now...

Appologies for any confusion.

Yeah, it's at rank X that the Piranha starts being overpowered. At rank I it's slightly behind the Claymore.

edit - I very much doubt Achire and GP want to cripple power-classes, I've been in several discussions with both and never got that impression.

Pretty much! I think everyone likes that there's a new light weight shotgun worh using, the scary thing is that right now it's completely better than the previous best shotgun in the game. A slight damage nerf to bring it to a level more comparable with the Claymore is the most I've seen.

How to reduce its damage is a concern, mind. I mean, what needs to be hit? Magazine size? Rate of fire? The base damage?

Modifié par EvanKester, 04 août 2012 - 03:00 .

[AshirahTSparkle]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

DarkLord_PT wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...



You're pretending it's only an
issue on the GI.  The Piranha's great for everyone, including casters
with no accuracy bonuses.  Compare it to the Wraith, which weighs the
same and is a quite good caster weapon.  

 

Please, I'm not trying to make such a claim

  Wasn't responding to you.  Was responding to this:

AshirahTSparkle wrote...

So does it mean that because it's OP on the GI, we have to nerf the gun?

What darklord say.

[ExpiredLifetime]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

ExpiredLifetime wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...
I personally think a damage nerf would be more appropriate.

I'm going to keep bringing up the accuracy issue. Consider this: if the spread of the gun was doubled, then your effective range would be halved. You could no longer take 30m shots with it on a class with no accuracy bonus and effectively kill something, it would be reserved as a highly inaccurate, highly powerful CQC weapon. Very high risk, very high reward.

And when I get a 100% accuracy bonus?

Last I checked, there was no accuracy bonus that high on anything but a TS with MM running.

[Pedro Costa]

CC-Tron wrote...
What difference does it make? Buff powers or weapons and the end result is the power based classes would be killing more enemies. C'mon man.

The difference is that weapon-based classes would be cleaning the house even faster, so the status quo wouldn't be changed that much in comparison to each other.

I can see that, but I also love to carry shotguns and my Piranha 1 has proved itself a very respectful weapon which I can hardly wait to get to level 10 just so I can equip it on my Novaguard.

IMO, the real problem lies in the weight systems, however.
It isn't anybody's friend. Cripples power-classes and doesn't matter the least for the weapon-classes. Which restricts power-classes to weak weapons and makes any weapon meant for the former OP on the latter.

edit:

EvanKester wrote...
A slight damage nerf to bring it to a level more comparable with the Claymore would be fine.

Ah, I definitely can agree to this, then. 

Modifié par DarkLord_PT, 04 août 2012 - 03:01 .