285 réponses à ce sujet

[Taboo]

I cared about EDI's death. It was my fault.

I know my Shepard is going to feel bad about it.

[SSPBOURNE]

Why do people care about Commander Shepard? Or Tali Or Garrus? Or Joker? They're just individuals.

[Chaotic-Fusion]

LinksOcarina wrote...

D24O wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

Well, the only reason they even went down that path was because they were backed in a corner, no?

If the Quarians didn't attack, the Geth would have been pretty much the same as they are. 

I know that the attack showed them a weakness, but why do the upgrades have to fundamentally change them. IMO they should've just allowed them to network together better or something, so that they could have the same mode of thinking that they had before, just smarter. I don't know how, but that's more the writers job to come up with the technobabble for it, I just disagree with the narrative direction they took seeing as we have a humanoid robot in EDI.

Fair enough I guess. To be honest the narrative direction for the Geth was brilliant to me, as it showed that a true progression for the Geth from simple grunts you kill to sophisticated, alien beings that are not necessarily bad. And the Geth achieving sentinence shows the confidence shepard and his team had in them to be trusted, instead of being more grunts to kill.

It's the part about them achieving "sentience" I don't like. They were sentient before they uploaded the reaper code,  just different. At least that's what I gathered from Legion in ME2, in ME3 the writers imply that to be sentient you must be part organic, or at least think like organics.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

To be honest it's not so much about EDI.

More for the 1.5 billion Geth.

[Ozida]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
To be honest it's not so much about EDI.
More for the 1.5 billion Geth.

Did you count all the Geth you've killed during ME1?

[What a Succulent Ass]

clennon8 wrote...

Not everything you're saying is completely off-base, but much of it seems wildly exaggerated.  Yes, some of the EDI-is-a-babe stuff was juvenile, but I think it was clear that Joker cared about more than that.

Exaggerated, no. Extrapolated, yes. Regardless of intention, the relationship is extremely poorly written, and no amount of eleventh hour characterisation makes it look any better, or justifies its existence to begin with.

Who even wrote it anyway?

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Ozida wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
To be honest it's not so much about EDI.
More for the 1.5 billion Geth.

Did you count all the Geth you've killed during ME1?

But they weren't allied with me 

[The Twilight God]

EricChase88 wrote...

Seriously, why does her death even matter? I can't believe people will not choose destroy just because of a sexbot. Lots of people die, so why should people even care about her in particular? She is just one individual. The entire galaxy is at stake.

The entire geth species is supposedly erradicated as well. EDI is just another icing on the "yellowcake". It's just something to draw the player over to the indoctrinated endings. Bioware doesn't think Control or Synthesis are good enough to stand on their own.

[What a Succulent Ass]

...Probably because they're not. I can't think of a single reason you would pointlessly vaporise yourself when you can destroy the reapers and walk away unscathed cooked to perfection.

[chuckles471]

Random Jerkface wrote...

clennon8 wrote...

Not everything you're saying is completely off-base, but much of it seems wildly exaggerated.  Yes, some of the EDI-is-a-babe stuff was juvenile, but I think it was clear that Joker cared about more than that.

Exaggerated, no. Extrapolated, yes. Regardless of intention, the relationship is extremely poorly written, and no amount of eleventh hour characterisation makes it look any better, or justifies its existence to begin with.

Who even wrote it anyway?

Somebody who had just bought a sex doll and wanted to see if anyone would accept the relationship?

[sonicphoto]

It's not really much about her, but for the fact that Joker won't haver her anymore. But in the end she is a robot no matter how real they can get, same as the geth. Im kidding I love them, but Bioware has made try to come up with an excuse as to why kill them . That is why I like the original endings, in the originals we never knew they were dead and many pressumed they were alve, but no Bioware decided to screw up destroy ending. Im sorry but the endings are unbalanced, everyone lives on the other ones but on destroy some have to die? Yes shepard dies in the other endings, but that was the fun of it, that the player decides if shepard should live or not and how he should die or live. I might just delete the extended cut because of this and the fact that Harbinger starts eating popcorn while you say goodbye to your crew in the normandy.

[Chaotic-Fusion]

Random Jerkface wrote...

...Probably because they're not. I can't think of a single reason you would pointlessly vaporise yourself when you can destroy the reapers and walk away unscathed cooked to perfection.

The geth and EDI dying were just artificial limits bioware imposed so that most people wouldn't chose destroy. It's clear they favored Synthesis. And still it didn't work, most people here at least chose destroy even with those absurd consequences.

[MegaSovereign]

I care because she's a well-developed character who I've grown to like in both ME2 and ME3.

And it's not just EDI that you're sacrificing. It's the entire Geth population, too.

[Seival]

Chaotic-Fusion wrote...

Seival wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Seival wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Seival wrote...

EDI is living being. Moreover, it's good living being.

That still doesn't sway me from "Kill the Reapers because they more than deserve it, opps sorry brobots and Joker's sex buddy"

For me EDI and Geth survival is one of the main reasons to choose Control.

Cue several thousand years later:

God-Shep: Clearly the best way to protect the many is to kill them all and process them all into Reapers, then do this regularly, all for the greater good of course.

Harbinger: Called it.

Well, your Shepard is definitely not ready for Control, so you better choose something else. But my Shepard is ready. My Shepard-Catalyst will never repeat the orignal Catalyst's mistakes.

Also, if you want to talk about long-terms consequences, then I can give you one interesting version for Destroy... After the Destroy all worlds will be full of dead Reaper bodies. They will corrupt everythig around them. Galactic Civilization's technological advancement will be based on the Reaper tech. Indoctrination and harvesting will become regular weapons in the hands of people, who are not ready for such "toys". Everything will end up in total civil war triggered by hundreds of power-hungry groups. And eventually everyone will die... And all subsequent civilizations will also grow on the Reaper remains... Uncontrolled Cycles will begin, and will never end.

It's not your Shepard, it's an A.I base on your Shepard's personality. Remember how in ME2 it was stated that even if we were to copy a geth's data, the resulting being would not have them same personality due to "quantum fluctuations" or something like that? How the geth V.I, though a complete copy of Legion, still expresses disbelief at some of his (Legion's) prior actions? He is not the same. The same happens to God-Shep. His opinions, his motives are not Shepard's. In the years he'll act as a dictator they will change. I see him implementing similar "solutions" as the catalyst. A lot can happen in a million years.

As for the second point. The reapers are still around in control. Only now the technology is regulated by a.i Shepard. So to avoid the problem he must become a censor? Dictate what people can and cannot do? People wil rise in rebellion, and the reapers will slaughter on his orders.

It's an AI, yes. An AI with unlimited processing power. And it's based on your Human-Shepard's personality. Which means the Catalist-Shepard will be absolutely sane, wise, and incorruptible... If your Human-Shepard was that kind of person of course. That is my point...

...And if your Human-Shepard is a dictator, then your Catalist-Shepard will only become a super-advanced AI Dictator of course

[Ozida]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Ozida wrote...
Did you count all the Geth you've killed during ME1?

But they weren't allied with me 

So you are fine with past crimes as long as your enemies suddenly turn friendly? Like with Reapers in  Synthesis?
You know, my grand-grand father was a World War 2 veteran (sadly he has passed away several years ago). He hold grudge over German people even after the war was over. I am just saying, this is not a typical reaction of a solder to forgive his enemy like that.

Modifié par Ozida, 04 août 2012 - 04:40 .

[What a Succulent Ass]

You killed heretics in ME1, not true geth.

[Chaotic-Fusion]

Seival wrote...

Chaotic-Fusion wrote...

Seival wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Seival wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Seival wrote...

EDI is living being. Moreover, it's good living being.

That still doesn't sway me from "Kill the Reapers because they more than deserve it, opps sorry brobots and Joker's sex buddy"

For me EDI and Geth survival is one of the main reasons to choose Control.

Cue several thousand years later:

God-Shep: Clearly the best way to protect the many is to kill them all and process them all into Reapers, then do this regularly, all for the greater good of course.

Harbinger: Called it.

Well, your Shepard is definitely not ready for Control, so you better choose something else. But my Shepard is ready. My Shepard-Catalyst will never repeat the orignal Catalyst's mistakes.

Also, if you want to talk about long-terms consequences, then I can give you one interesting version for Destroy... After the Destroy all worlds will be full of dead Reaper bodies. They will corrupt everythig around them. Galactic Civilization's technological advancement will be based on the Reaper tech. Indoctrination and harvesting will become regular weapons in the hands of people, who are not ready for such "toys". Everything will end up in total civil war triggered by hundreds of power-hungry groups. And eventually everyone will die... And all subsequent civilizations will also grow on the Reaper remains... Uncontrolled Cycles will begin, and will never end.

It's not your Shepard, it's an A.I base on your Shepard's personality. Remember how in ME2 it was stated that even if we were to copy a geth's data, the resulting being would not have them same personality due to "quantum fluctuations" or something like that? How the geth V.I, though a complete copy of Legion, still expresses disbelief at some of his (Legion's) prior actions? He is not the same. The same happens to God-Shep. His opinions, his motives are not Shepard's. In the years he'll act as a dictator they will change. I see him implementing similar "solutions" as the catalyst. A lot can happen in a million years.

As for the second point. The reapers are still around in control. Only now the technology is regulated by a.i Shepard. So to avoid the problem he must become a censor? Dictate what people can and cannot do? People wil rise in rebellion, and the reapers will slaughter on his orders.

It's an AI, yes. An AI with unlimited processing power. And it's based on your Human-Shepard's personality. Which means the Catalist-Shepard will be absolutely sane, wise, and incorruptible... If your Human-Shepard was that kind of person of course. That is my point...

...And if your Human-Shepard is a dictator, then your Catalist-Shepard will only become a super-advanced AI Dictator of course

When the Catalyst was first created, I doubt his creators made him insane and fallacious on purpose. The process isn't infallible. My geth example proves that. There are variables you cannot control.
God-Shep is always a dictator, that word doesn't apply just to oppressive tyrants, he becomes a dictator no matter what his orientation may be. Thanks to the reapers, he assumes absolute power, there is no one who can challenge him. In the end, if a race would want to do something he doesn't consent, he will intervene. He has the last word.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Ozida wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Ozida wrote...
Did you count all the Geth you've killed during ME1?

But they weren't allied with me 

So you are fine with past crimes as long as your enemies suddenly turn friendly? Like with Reapers in  Synthesis?
You know, my grand-grand father was a World War 2 veteran (sadly he has passed away several years ago). He hold grudge over German people even after the war was over. I am just saying, this is not a typical reaction of a solder to forgive his enemy like that.

We can be held guilty for us attacking them as for them attacking us. We solved a very long conflict, join forces to defeat the Reapers, and "selling" them out doesn't seem right to me.

Modifié par Khajiit Jzargo, 04 août 2012 - 04:52 .

[AlanC9]

Ozida wrote...
So you are fine with past crimes as long as your enemies suddenly turn friendly? Like with Reapers in  Synthesis?
You know, my grand-grand father was a World War 2 veteran (sadly he has passed away several years ago). He hold grudge over German people even after the war was over. I am just saying, this is not a typical reaction of a solder to forgive his enemy like that.

And yet the USA and the FRG were strong allies within a few years. Same for the USA and Japan

[EricChase88]

Random Jerkface wrote...

Quite frankly, other characters have been through worse. And the galaxy is collectively suffering more than a single person ever possibly could.

Exactly. No one individual can take precedence.

Joker/EDI relationship is just terrible. It is unbelievably cheesy and cheap, and it just reinforces her role as a sex machine for Joker. Is there honestly anything about her except for the stupid sexbot and horribly done romance?

[Ozida]

AlanC9 wrote...
And yet the USA and the FRG were strong allies within a few years. Same for the USA and Japan

Fantastic! Except I am neither from USA, FRG or Japan.

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
We can be held guilty for us attacking them as for them attacking us. We solved a very long conflict, join forces to defeat the Reapers, and "selling" them out doesn't seem right to me.

"Us" didn't attack them. Humans had nothing to do with original conflict, but humans were killed in that war. Imagine walking to a person on Noveria, for example, who just lost his family and friends due to geth attack, and trying to explain to him that it was just  a "heretics" fault?

Once again, I personally think that BW put all "geth die/ EDI die" to make it a non win-scenario if people choose Destroy, because developers obviously wanted us to choose Synthesis. As it goes against my original goal of the game, I care little if geth/ EDI die to stop the war. Hell, in original endings I even didn't care that my Shepard died as long as I killed the Reapers! (Only later I have found a bonus "breathing" scene).

Modifié par Ozida, 04 août 2012 - 05:00 .

[Seival]

Chaotic-Fusion wrote...

Seival wrote...

Chaotic-Fusion wrote...

Seival wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Seival wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Seival wrote...

EDI is living being. Moreover, it's good living being.

That still doesn't sway me from "Kill the Reapers because they more than deserve it, opps sorry brobots and Joker's sex buddy"

For me EDI and Geth survival is one of the main reasons to choose Control.

Cue several thousand years later:

God-Shep: Clearly the best way to protect the many is to kill them all and process them all into Reapers, then do this regularly, all for the greater good of course.

Harbinger: Called it.

Well, your Shepard is definitely not ready for Control, so you better choose something else. But my Shepard is ready. My Shepard-Catalyst will never repeat the orignal Catalyst's mistakes.

Also, if you want to talk about long-terms consequences, then I can give you one interesting version for Destroy... After the Destroy all worlds will be full of dead Reaper bodies. They will corrupt everythig around them. Galactic Civilization's technological advancement will be based on the Reaper tech. Indoctrination and harvesting will become regular weapons in the hands of people, who are not ready for such "toys". Everything will end up in total civil war triggered by hundreds of power-hungry groups. And eventually everyone will die... And all subsequent civilizations will also grow on the Reaper remains... Uncontrolled Cycles will begin, and will never end.

It's not your Shepard, it's an A.I base on your Shepard's personality. Remember how in ME2 it was stated that even if we were to copy a geth's data, the resulting being would not have them same personality due to "quantum fluctuations" or something like that? How the geth V.I, though a complete copy of Legion, still expresses disbelief at some of his (Legion's) prior actions? He is not the same. The same happens to God-Shep. His opinions, his motives are not Shepard's. In the years he'll act as a dictator they will change. I see him implementing similar "solutions" as the catalyst. A lot can happen in a million years.

As for the second point. The reapers are still around in control. Only now the technology is regulated by a.i Shepard. So to avoid the problem he must become a censor? Dictate what people can and cannot do? People wil rise in rebellion, and the reapers will slaughter on his orders.

It's an AI, yes. An AI with unlimited processing power. And it's based on your Human-Shepard's personality. Which means the Catalist-Shepard will be absolutely sane, wise, and incorruptible... If your Human-Shepard was that kind of person of course. That is my point...

...And if your Human-Shepard is a dictator, then your Catalist-Shepard will only become a super-advanced AI Dictator of course

When the Catalyst was first created, I doubt his creators made him insane and fallacious on purpose. The process isn't infallible. My geth example proves that. There are variables you cannot control.
God-Shep is always a dictator, that word doesn't apply just to oppressive tyrants, he becomes a dictator no matter what his orientation may be. Thanks to the reapers, he assumes absolute power, there is no one who can challenge him. In the end, if a race would want to do something he doesn't consent, he will intervene. He has the last word.

I believe the original Catalist was created the same way as Catalist-Shepard. Original Catalist was based on a person of some organic living being. And the person was obviously unstable. Or, the original Catalist was programmed, and the programmers were unstable.

Only Renegade-Shepard-Catalist is a Dictator. Paragon-Shepard-Catalist is a Guardian. Do you know there are actually 4 different variants of Control Ending? They describe pretty clear who will be a dictator, and who will not.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Ozida wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
And yet the USA and the FRG were strong allies within a few years. Same for the USA and Japan

Fantastic! Except I am neither from USA, FRG or Japan.

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
We can be held guilty for us attacking them as for them attacking us. We solved a very long conflict, join forces to defeat the Reapers, and "selling" them out doesn't seem right to me.

"Us" didn't attack them. Humans had nothing to do with original conflict, but humans were killed in that war. Imagine walking to a person on Noveria, for example, who just lost his family and friends due to geth attack, and trying to explain to him that it was just  a "heretics" fault?

Once again, I personally think that BW put all "geth die/ EDI die" to make it a non win-scenario if people choose Destroy, because developers obviously wanted us to choose Synthesis. As it goes against my original goal of the game, I care little if geth/ EDI die to stop the war. Hell, in original endings I even didn't care that my Shepard died as long as I killed the Reapers! (Only later I have found a bonus "breathing" scene).

Who said anything about us attacking them, I'm just saying they weren't enemies because they were evil, they became enemies because they were put into a tight situation by the Quarians. You can't hold grudges, especially when is very clear you a united galaxy to win the war.