159 réponses à ce sujet

[Conniving_Eagle]

SubAstris wrote...

What's the post exactly from CP?

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/13492198/7


He wrote this, his comment is on page 7, he also had a closing statement before he locked it.

In response I wrote this social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/13500277

Which he also felt compelled to lock down without a good reason.

[AresKeith]

"oh no we didn't like ME3 so we hate Mass Effect" like seriously ME3 is not the whole Mass Effect series

[LinksOcarina]

J. Reezy wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

I'm not romanticising anything. Videogames that anger more fans than they please will inevitably lead to less profit.
That is capitalism.

Tell that to Nintendo and their garbage gimmicky Wii console.

I bet they're hurting so much without their fans. Oh well all that money they're swimming in will comfort them, I'm sure.

Poor comparison. They have tons of fans who like the Wii.

And the point of most Nintendo games is to provide a sort of "mythos" around it. The Zelda games for example are all analagous to Greek and Roman mythology in terms of story-telling and tropes, characterization, plot, and even in its cyclical nature of gameplay. The Metroid games are a space-opera style game that is in an un-linear narrative. Pokemon is all about the deep strategy game mechanics under a subplot that is all about the parallels between nature and urbanization.

That is why Nintendo is successful, it has franchises that are deeper than they look, and gameplay that is almost universal. 

[Iakus]

Alex Kershaw wrote...

Can you give me an example of another game universe with the level of detail of Mass Effect, with as many interesting characters and romance options and places, and where the player can cause the mass extinction or survival of multiple species, the death or survival of tens of characters, has the choice of 3 distinct endings affecting the entire game universe, and has a 10+ minute epilogue giving closure to the impact of the player's choices on the entire game universe and the characters within?

Because if such a game exists, I'm not aware of it. As far as I'm concerned, you're complaining about the best story-driven trilogy every created.

Baldur's Gate.  Minus the extinctions, and overall fewer romance options (four to Mass Effect's seven).

But then, that's moddable, so you can just ad in yourself what you like.

How far Bioware has fallen.

[The Angry One]

LinksOcarina wrote...

No, I just think your a person  who gets off on the thrill of arguments at this point.

Yes nothing is more thrilling than speaking with people like you.

This whole "make or break" thing for the fanbase is the most ludacris argument I have ever heard. It's like saying "well, I hated Wind Waker, but Twilight Princess is the last chance for Nintendo to impress me."

That is a disparity that is a falsehood, it's something that doesn't exist.

Which part of seperate development teams did you not understand?
Why am I going to judge the DA team's future game on the performance on Hudson and Walters, who have absolutely nothing to do with DA?
I may be more guarded about BioWare games in general, but that doesn't mean I'll pre-judge DA3 or think it affected much if at all by Mass Effect.

In fact I can guess that if I did judge it because of ME3, you'd be yelling at me about doing that too. Methinks you're the one here for the sake of arguing.

[Alex Kershaw]

iakus wrote...

Alex Kershaw wrote...

Can you give me an example of another game universe with the level of detail of Mass Effect, with as many interesting characters and romance options and places, and where the player can cause the mass extinction or survival of multiple species, the death or survival of tens of characters, has the choice of 3 distinct endings affecting the entire game universe, and has a 10+ minute epilogue giving closure to the impact of the player's choices on the entire game universe and the characters within?

Because if such a game exists, I'm not aware of it. As far as I'm concerned, you're complaining about the best story-driven trilogy every created.

Baldur's Gate.  Minus the extinctions, and overall fewer romance options (four to Mass Effect's seven).

But then, that's moddable, so you can just ad in yourself what you like.

How far Bioware has fallen.

Baldur's gate had hardly any choice/impact, and can hardly be compared to Mass Effect when you consider how cinematic Mass Effect is. Since we can't compare games that were made decades apart, can you give me an example from this generation of games, or even the previous one?

(Besides, making the 2nd best story-driven series of all time is hardly 'falling'.)

Modifié par Alex Kershaw, 04 août 2012 - 05:21 .

[DirtySHISN0]

Alex Kershaw wrote...

Can you give me an example of another game universe with the level of detail of Mass Effect, with as many interesting characters and romance options and places, and where the player can cause the mass extinction or survival of multiple species, the death or survival of tens of characters, has the choice of 3 distinct endings affecting the entire game universe, and has a 10+ minute epilogue giving closure to the impact of the player's choices on the entire game universe and the characters within?

Because if such a game exists, I'm not aware of it. As far as I'm concerned, you're complaining about the best story-driven trilogy every created.

Recent additions to the fallout series mostly fit this description.

Mostly.

Modifié par DirtySHISN0, 04 août 2012 - 05:22 .

[Terminus Echoes]

If you compare the following list of things I stated a few months ago to BioWare's statements about the game before its release, you'll see a stark contrast between what was said and what was done.

http://social.biowar...ndex/10681738/1 

It's not all about the ending. There's plenty of issues elsewhere.

You can't lie about and create an incredibly flawed game and expect people to just ignore it. We're only upset because we care.

[aj2070]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

<snip>

Here's a business 101 tip for any company: don't ****** off your consumers.

This pretty much sums it up.

[LinksOcarina]

iakus wrote...

Alex Kershaw wrote...

Can you give me an example of another game universe with the level of detail of Mass Effect, with as many interesting characters and romance options and places, and where the player can cause the mass extinction or survival of multiple species, the death or survival of tens of characters, has the choice of 3 distinct endings affecting the entire game universe, and has a 10+ minute epilogue giving closure to the impact of the player's choices on the entire game universe and the characters within?

Because if such a game exists, I'm not aware of it. As far as I'm concerned, you're complaining about the best story-driven trilogy every created.

Baldur's Gate.  Minus the extinctions, and overall fewer romance options (four to Mass Effect's seven).

But then, that's moddable, so you can just ad in yourself what you like.

How far Bioware has fallen.

Baldurs Gate was not a good game...in fact, out of all the isometric A DnD RPGs I remember playing, it was the most broken of the bunch with illegal stats, poor character implementation, and a poorly implemented multiplayer system.

[Mister Mida]

Shepard Cmdr wrote...
There are a few problems with that the first being that there is no equivalant to bioware, no one else makes games of the caliber that bioware used to, and up to the ending did make with ME3.

Then I suggest you look better, or broaden your taste in games. I don't need BioWare.

[fil009]

Alex Kershaw wrote...

Can you give me an example of another game universe with the level of detail of Mass Effect, with as many interesting characters and romance options and places, and where the player can cause the mass extinction or survival of multiple species, the death or survival of tens of characters, has the choice of 3 distinct endings affecting the entire game universe, and has a 10+ minute epilogue giving closure to the impact of the player's choices on the entire game universe and the characters within?

Because if such a series exists, I'm not aware of it. As far as I'm aware, you're complaining about the best story-driven trilogy ever created.

Your statement says more about the lack of quality story-driven games than it says about the quality of ME. The ending was subpar thus generating complaints.

[Alex Kershaw]

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

Alex Kershaw wrote...

Can you give me an example of another game universe with the level of detail of Mass Effect, with as many interesting characters and romance options and places, and where the player can cause the mass extinction or survival of multiple species, the death or survival of tens of characters, has the choice of 3 distinct endings affecting the entire game universe, and has a 10+ minute epilogue giving closure to the impact of the player's choices on the entire game universe and the characters within?

Because if such a game exists, I'm not aware of it. As far as I'm concerned, you're complaining about the best story-driven trilogy every created.

Recent additions to the fallout series mostly fit this description.

Mostly.

If Mass Effect 3 was made with a story and characters as dull as in Fallout 3, the players would be far, far more annoyed than they are now. Fallout 3 was great because of its expansive world, not because of its story or characters. Fallout 3 ending: choose to live or die - the end. Fallout 3 dlc: GIVE US MONEY AND WE'LL RETCON IT. You think Bioware fans would be happy with that??? That's worse than even the original ME3 ending.

Modifié par Alex Kershaw, 04 août 2012 - 05:25 .

[DirtyPhoenix]

The Angry One wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

arial wrote...

they get the point, they are just not submitting to angry fans complaining, just how Governments don't negotiate with terrorists

I have half a mind to make this my sig.

Please do. It makes it so much easier for me to filter arguments from people that are worth debating with from lost causes when such absurdity is found in your sigs.

Not because I agree with him, its just hilarious because it seems to have slips through his tongue, or finger.

[LinksOcarina]

The Angry One wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

No, I just think your a person  who gets off on the thrill of arguments at this point.

Yes nothing is more thrilling than speaking with people like you.

This whole "make or break" thing for the fanbase is the most ludacris argument I have ever heard. It's like saying "well, I hated Wind Waker, but Twilight Princess is the last chance for Nintendo to impress me."

That is a disparity that is a falsehood, it's something that doesn't exist.

Which part of seperate development teams did you not understand?
Why am I going to judge the DA team's future game on the performance on Hudson and Walters, who have absolutely nothing to do with DA?
I may be more guarded about BioWare games in general, but that doesn't mean I'll pre-judge DA3 or think it affected much if at all by Mass Effect.

In fact I can guess that if I did judge it because of ME3, you'd be yelling at me about doing that too. Methinks you're the one here for the sake of arguing.

No, I just like putting you in your place, it's a different kind of euphoria. 

As for your point. I get that. But it's irrelevent because of this whole "make or break" disparity you put in there. If Dragon age III is amazing for whatever reason, and the next game BioWare makes is just say, a random new IP by hudson and walters is a writer on it, would that prevent you from really buying it or checking it out?  What if Hudson is producer and Mike Laidlaw is the director, and they put Pat Weekes and Walters in with Jen Hepler and Sheryl Cree? 

The teams can mix and match any time. Is it likely, not right now no, because it has been profitable for BioWare to divide the workload. But if it does happen, would one person on the whole production team really force you to not buy a game.

That is like saying I won't buy a Peter Molyneux game, or a anything Nouobu Uematsu works on because his music is bland. Or playing a game where Steve Blum is the main lead. 

That just doesn't make sense to me. 

[The Angry One]

Alex Kershaw wrote...

Fallout 3 dlc: GIVE US MONEY AND WE'LL RETCON IT. You think Bioware fans would be happy with that??? That's worse than even the original ME3 ending.

If they actually put some effort into it rather than a bunch of slideshows, even more sabotaging of the other endings to prop up synthesis and a casual **** you to the fanbase then yes, I'd sure as hell be happy with that.

[dirty console peasant]

Alex Kershaw wrote...

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

Alex Kershaw wrote...

Can you give me an example of another game universe with the level of detail of Mass Effect, with as many interesting characters and romance options and places, and where the player can cause the mass extinction or survival of multiple species, the death or survival of tens of characters, has the choice of 3 distinct endings affecting the entire game universe, and has a 10+ minute epilogue giving closure to the impact of the player's choices on the entire game universe and the characters within?

Because if such a game exists, I'm not aware of it. As far as I'm concerned, you're complaining about the best story-driven trilogy every created.

Recent additions to the fallout series mostly fit this description.

Mostly.

If Mass Effect 3 was made with a story and characters as dull as in Fallout 3, the players would be far, far more annoyed than they are now. Fallout 3 was great because of its expansive world, not because of its story or characters. Fallout 3 ending: choose to live or die - the end. Fallout 3 dlc: GIVE US MONEY AND WE'LL RETCON IT. You think Bioware fans would be happy with that??? That's worse than even the original ME3 ending.

you did not read the OP I specifically said that I was willing to pay up to $5 for a fixed ending dlc, after confirming that it actually fixed the ending.

[Iakus]

Alex Kershaw wrote...

iakus wrote...

Alex Kershaw wrote...

Can you give me an example of another game universe with the level of detail of Mass Effect, with as many interesting characters and romance options and places, and where the player can cause the mass extinction or survival of multiple species, the death or survival of tens of characters, has the choice of 3 distinct endings affecting the entire game universe, and has a 10+ minute epilogue giving closure to the impact of the player's choices on the entire game universe and the characters within?

Because if such a game exists, I'm not aware of it. As far as I'm concerned, you're complaining about the best story-driven trilogy every created.

Baldur's Gate.  Minus the extinctions, and overall fewer romance options (four to Mass Effect's seven).

But then, that's moddable, so you can just ad in yourself what you like.

How far Bioware has fallen.

Baldur's gate had hardly any choice/impact, and can hardly be compared to Mass Effect when you consider how cinematic Mass Effect is. Since we can't compare games that were made decades apart, can you give me an example from this generation of games, or even the previous one?

(Besides, making the 2nd best story-driven series of all time is hardly 'falling'.)

Baldur's Gate has just as much choice/impact as Mass Effect, save the inability to import (which is the subject of several in-game jokes in BG2

As for the rest:  Moving the Goalposts

[The Angry One]

LinksOcarina wrote...

No, I just like putting you in your place, it's a different kind of euphoria.

You never have, and you never will.
Do feel free to keep trying though. It amuses me.

As for your point. I get that. But it's irrelevent because of this whole "make or break" disparity you put in there. If Dragon age III is amazing for whatever reason, and the next game BioWare makes is just say, a random new IP by hudson and walters is a writer on it, would that prevent you from really buying it or checking it out?  What if Hudson is producer and Mike Laidlaw is the director, and they put Pat Weekes and Walters in with Jen Hepler and Sheryl Cree?

Hudson's role will not bother me so much. He, like most producers/project leads, will do good with the proper guidance.
I will however not touch anything with Mac Walters as lead writer.

The teams can mix and match any time. Is it likely, not right now no, because it has been profitable for BioWare to divide the workload. But if it does happen, would one person on the whole production team really force you to not buy a game.

That is like saying I won't buy a Peter Molyneux game, or a anything Nouobu Uematsu works on because his music is bland. Or playing a game where Steve Blum is the main lead. 

That just doesn't make sense to me. 

I'm only speaking of DA3, which has an established, seperate dev team. I'm also speaking only of it's fanbase, and while ME3 may make me more cautious overall of BioWare games, it ultimately won't have as large an effect as it will on the next ME game.

Besides which, this isn't just about what a developer has done, but their attitude afterwards.
I don't like Mac Walters' attitude. I don't like how he snidely inserted a take that into the reject ending (and inadvertantly undermined his own character even more).
I will not provide any more money to the payroll of someone like that on principle.

Modifié par The Angry One, 04 août 2012 - 05:35 .

[Eryri]

Alex Kershaw wrote...

Fallout 3 dlc: GIVE US MONEY AND WE'LL RETCON IT. You think Bioware fans would be happy with that??? That's worse than even the original ME3 ending.

If it was good value for money, and provided more gameplay, I actually would be happy with that.

Modifié par Eryri, 04 août 2012 - 05:31 .

[Alex Kershaw]

The Angry One wrote...

Alex Kershaw wrote...

Fallout 3 dlc: GIVE US MONEY AND WE'LL RETCON IT. You think Bioware fans would be happy with that??? That's worse than even the original ME3 ending.

If they actually put some effort into it rather than a bunch of slideshows, even more sabotaging of the other endings to prop up synthesis and a casual **** you to the fanbase then yes, I'd sure as hell be happy with that.

You took that quote completely out of context... I'm referring to not just the ability to pay to retcon the ending, but the entire Fallout 3 storyline of a boring plot, mediocre and unmemorable characters and an ending that only changes in whether the player lives or dies, and that ONE decision can be retconned anyway! You'd be happy if that was the ME3 story???

EDIT: I guess a couple of other people also took my post out of context so maybe I was unclear 

Modifié par Alex Kershaw, 04 août 2012 - 05:32 .

[Iakus]

The Angry One wrote...

Alex Kershaw wrote...

Fallout 3 dlc: GIVE US MONEY AND WE'LL RETCON IT. You think Bioware fans would be happy with that??? That's worse than even the original ME3 ending.

If they actually put some effort into it rather than a bunch of slideshows, even more sabotaging of the other endings to prop up synthesis and a casual **** you to the fanbase then yes, I'd sure as hell be happy with that.

I'd pay $10 for a Broken Steel-quality dlc that gave us a more satisfactory ending.  

[Eryri]

iakus wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Alex Kershaw wrote...

Fallout 3 dlc: GIVE US MONEY AND WE'LL RETCON IT. You think Bioware fans would be happy with that??? That's worse than even the original ME3 ending.

If they actually put some effort into it rather than a bunch of slideshows, even more sabotaging of the other endings to prop up synthesis and a casual **** you to the fanbase then yes, I'd sure as hell be happy with that.

I'd pay $10 for a Broken Steel-quality dlc that gave us a more satisfactory ending.  

Seconded.

[habitat 67]

Alex Kershaw wrote...

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

Alex Kershaw wrote...

Can you give me an example of another game universe with the level of detail of Mass Effect, with as many interesting characters and romance options and places, and where the player can cause the mass extinction or survival of multiple species, the death or survival of tens of characters, has the choice of 3 distinct endings affecting the entire game universe, and has a 10+ minute epilogue giving closure to the impact of the player's choices on the entire game universe and the characters within?

Because if such a game exists, I'm not aware of it. As far as I'm concerned, you're complaining about the best story-driven trilogy every created.

Recent additions to the fallout series mostly fit this description.

Mostly.

If Mass Effect 3 was made with a story and characters as dull as in Fallout 3, the players would be far, far more annoyed than they are now. Fallout 3 was great because of its expansive world, not because of its story or characters. Fallout 3 ending: choose to live or die - the end. Fallout 3 dlc: GIVE US MONEY AND WE'LL RETCON IT. You think Bioware fans would be happy with that??? That's worse than even the original ME3 ending.

Here I am, agreeing with you again.

[Podge 90]

AresKeith wrote...

"oh no we didn't like ME3 so we hate Mass Effect" like seriously ME3 is not the whole Mass Effect series

Yes, this is exactly what people are saying.


<_<