159 réponses à ce sujet

[The Angry One]

Alex Kershaw wrote...

You took that quote completely out of context... I'm referring to not just the ability to pay to retcon the ending, but the entire Fallout 3 storyline of a boring plot, mediocre and unmemorable characters and an ending that only changes in whether the player lives or dies, and that ONE decision can be retconned anyway! You'd be happy if that was the ME3 story???

EDIT: I guess a couple of other people also took my post out of context so maybe I was unclear 

Are you asking if I'd be happy if the only ending variable in ME3 was whether Shepard lives or dies?
If done well, why not? We don't NEED 3/4 options with vastly different results shoved in the last 5 minutes, especially when those vastly different results end up not amounting to much difference at all.

[DirtySHISN0]

Alex Kershaw wrote...

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

Alex Kershaw wrote...

Can you give me an example of another game universe with the level of detail of Mass Effect, with as many interesting characters and romance options and places, and where the player can cause the mass extinction or survival of multiple species, the death or survival of tens of characters, has the choice of 3 distinct endings affecting the entire game universe, and has a 10+ minute epilogue giving closure to the impact of the player's choices on the entire game universe and the characters within?

Because if such a game exists, I'm not aware of it. As far as I'm concerned, you're complaining about the best story-driven trilogy every created.

Recent additions to the fallout series mostly fit this description.

Mostly.

If Mass Effect 3 was made with a story and characters as dull as in Fallout 3, the players would be far, far more annoyed than they are now. Fallout 3 was great because of its expansive world, not because of its story or characters. Fallout 3 ending: choose to live or die - the end. Fallout 3 dlc: GIVE US MONEY AND WE'LL RETCON IT. You think Bioware fans would be happy with that??? That's worse than even the original ME3 ending.

 Fallout tells you exactly how you effected each faction you visited and whether you liked the characters is subjective. My point is there are options that meet your requirements.

Also as far as I'm aware fans still want another ME3 ending and are still claiming to be willing to pay for one.

So yes, yes i do think think bioware fans would be happy with that.

Modifié par DirtySHISN0, 04 août 2012 - 05:42 .

[TOBY FLENDERSON]

I hate that vocal minority line the most, almost as bad as artistic integrity, because based on the polls and survey's the "haters" are in fact a majority by a fairly large margin. The endings are disappointing both conceptually and realistically.

Now Leviathan is going to create a new rift (read as plot hole) in the ending to try to sell their DLC.

They tried to fix DA2 with really good DLC, and it didn't work. Bioware either fix the problem or move on (which is a worrisome prospect considering the dropping quality of their products).

[dirty console peasant]

iakus wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Alex Kershaw wrote...

Fallout 3 dlc: GIVE US MONEY AND WE'LL RETCON IT. You think Bioware fans would be happy with that??? That's worse than even the original ME3 ending.

If they actually put some effort into it rather than a bunch of slideshows, even more sabotaging of the other endings to prop up synthesis and a casual **** you to the fanbase then yes, I'd sure as hell be happy with that.

I'd pay $10 for a Broken Steel-quality dlc that gave us a more satisfactory ending.  

I would pay $5 for that kind of dlc, however I would then be much more likely to purchase other story related dlc such as leviathan.

[KotorEffect3]

arial wrote...

they get the point, they are just not submitting to angry fans complaining, just how Governments don't negotiate with terrorists

+1

[Alex Kershaw]

The Angry One wrote...

Alex Kershaw wrote...

You took that quote completely out of context... I'm referring to not just the ability to pay to retcon the ending, but the entire Fallout 3 storyline of a boring plot, mediocre and unmemorable characters and an ending that only changes in whether the player lives or dies, and that ONE decision can be retconned anyway! You'd be happy if that was the ME3 story???

EDIT: I guess a couple of other people also took my post out of context so maybe I was unclear 

Are you asking if I'd be happy if the only ending variable in ME3 was whether Shepard lives or dies?
If done well, why not? We don't NEED 3/4 options with vastly different results shoved in the last 5 minutes, especially when those vastly different results end up not amounting to much difference at all.

Okay, to clarify:

I wasn't originally asking you anything.  My original post was in response to somebody else who claimed that Fallout 3 was as good a story-driven game as Mass Effect, and I summed up the Fallout 3 story experience and asked that person whether they would be happy with something of that quality in ME3. You then hijacked the conversation, taking my quote about the ending of Fallout 3 out of context and used it as an excuse to further express your obvious hatred-of-Mass-Effect/too-much-time-on-your-hands.

If you want to answer my original post, do so - don't quote one sentence of a response to a completely different topic to a completely different person and start attacking it as if that's my point.

Modifié par Alex Kershaw, 04 août 2012 - 05:43 .

[RocketManSR2]

If people think that we're going to see an improvement in the quality of BioWare games from here on out, you are going to be in for a nasty reality check. They will get worse and worse until BioWare is shuttered and the employees are absorbed by the monster known as EA.

[RocketManSR2]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

arial wrote...

they get the point, they are just not submitting to angry fans complaining, just how Governments don't negotiate with terrorists

+1

Oh look, an idiot supporting an idiotic post.

[LinksOcarina]

The Angry One wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

No, I just like putting you in your place, it's a different kind of euphoria.

You never have, and you never will.
Do feel free to keep trying though. It amuses me.

As for your point. I get that. But it's irrelevent because of this whole "make or break" disparity you put in there. If Dragon age III is amazing for whatever reason, and the next game BioWare makes is just say, a random new IP by hudson and walters is a writer on it, would that prevent you from really buying it or checking it out?  What if Hudson is producer and Mike Laidlaw is the director, and they put Pat Weekes and Walters in with Jen Hepler and Sheryl Cree?

Hudson's role will not bother me so much. He, like most producers, will do good with the proper guidance.
I will however not touch anything with Mac Walters as lead writer.

The teams can mix and match any time. Is it likely, not right now no, because it has been profitable for BioWare to divide the workload. But if it does happen, would one person on the whole production team really force you to not buy a game.

That is like saying I won't buy a Peter Molyneux game, or a anything Nouobu Uematsu works on because his music is bland. Or playing a game where Steve Blum is the main lead. 

That just doesn't make sense to me. 

I'm only speaking of DA3, which has an established, seperate dev team. I'm also speaking only of it's fanbase, and while ME3 may make me more cautious overall of BioWare games, it ultimately won't have as large an effect as it will on the next ME game.

Besides which, this isn't just about what a developer has done, but their attitude afterwards.
I don't like Mac Walters' attitude. I don't like how he snidely inserted a take that into the reject ending (and inadvertantly undermined his own character even more).
I will not provide any more money to the payroll of someone like that on principle.

Bold words for someone who tends to shy away from me half of the time. 

As for the next Mass Effect game, well see. I would be willing to bet money it will be a success still, meaning this entire ordeal will mean othing in the grand scheme of things. Of course, this is assuming there is another Mass Effect game; considering the endings of Mass Effect 3, I would be surprised if there is one 100-200 years down the line, but hey ive been wrong before. 

By th eway, the attitude after the fact is hard to gague at this point. Sometimes it feels like they are sick of the negativity that happens around here, other times they feel bad for letting people down. And honestly, there is no way to really say you know what Walters' attitude is, and if it is stemming from how the reject ending went...well...I can't help why you make assumptions like that.

[dirty console peasant]

Alex Kershaw wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Alex Kershaw wrote...

You took that quote completely out of context... I'm referring to not just the ability to pay to retcon the ending, but the entire Fallout 3 storyline of a boring plot, mediocre and unmemorable characters and an ending that only changes in whether the player lives or dies, and that ONE decision can be retconned anyway! You'd be happy if that was the ME3 story???

EDIT: I guess a couple of other people also took my post out of context so maybe I was unclear 

Are you asking if I'd be happy if the only ending variable in ME3 was whether Shepard lives or dies?
If done well, why not? We don't NEED 3/4 options with vastly different results shoved in the last 5 minutes, especially when those vastly different results end up not amounting to much difference at all.

Okay, to clarify:

I wasn't originally asking you anything.  My original post was in response to somebody else who claimed that Fallout 3 was as good a story-driven game as Mass Effect, and I summed up the Fallout 3 story experience and asked that person whether they would be happy with something of that quality in ME3. You then hijacked the conversation, taking my quote about the ending of Fallout 3 into the ending and used it as an excuse to further express your obvious hatred-of-Mass-Effect/too-much-time-on-your-hands.

As I stated in the OP and following posts, I do not hate Mass Effect, I love it.  That is why I am making such a big deal about being disappointed in the final product that is ME3.

[Ghost]

RocketManSR2 wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

arial wrote...

they get the point, they are just not submitting to angry fans complaining, just how Governments don't negotiate with terrorists

+1

Oh look, an idiot supporting an idiotic post.

That's not very nice.

[Grogimus]

aj2070 wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

<snip>

Here's a business 101 tip for any company: don't ****** off your consumers.

This pretty much sums it up.

No company, let alone a game company, are going to please everyone.  Rehashing threads like this is unproductive.  Futile.  They have stated clearly that the endings are there to stay.  Get over it and move on. 

[KotorEffect3]

RocketManSR2 wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

arial wrote...

they get the point, they are just not submitting to angry fans complaining, just how Governments don't negotiate with terrorists

+1

Oh look, an idiot supporting an idiotic post.

Oh look a hater being a jackass

[Alex Kershaw]

Shepard Cmdr wrote...

Alex Kershaw wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Alex Kershaw wrote...

You took that quote completely out of context... I'm referring to not just the ability to pay to retcon the ending, but the entire Fallout 3 storyline of a boring plot, mediocre and unmemorable characters and an ending that only changes in whether the player lives or dies, and that ONE decision can be retconned anyway! You'd be happy if that was the ME3 story???

EDIT: I guess a couple of other people also took my post out of context so maybe I was unclear 

Are you asking if I'd be happy if the only ending variable in ME3 was whether Shepard lives or dies?
If done well, why not? We don't NEED 3/4 options with vastly different results shoved in the last 5 minutes, especially when those vastly different results end up not amounting to much difference at all.

Okay, to clarify:

I wasn't originally asking you anything.  My original post was in response to somebody else who claimed that Fallout 3 was as good a story-driven game as Mass Effect, and I summed up the Fallout 3 story experience and asked that person whether they would be happy with something of that quality in ME3. You then hijacked the conversation, taking my quote about the ending of Fallout 3 into the ending and used it as an excuse to further express your obvious hatred-of-Mass-Effect/too-much-time-on-your-hands.

As I stated in the OP and following posts, I do not hate Mass Effect, I love it.  That is why I am making such a big deal about being disappointed in the final product that is ME3.

What is it about you and The Angry One thinking that every single post is directed at you? Were you at any point included in the quotes above?

[Conniving_Eagle]

Grogimus wrote...

aj2070 wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

<snip>

Here's a business 101 tip for any company: don't ****** off your consumers.

This pretty much sums it up.

No company, let alone a game company, are going to please everyone.  Rehashing threads like this is unproductive.  Futile.  They have stated clearly that the endings are there to stay.  Get over it and move on. 

Lol, oh boy...

[RocketManSR2]

Ghost1017 wrote...

That's not very nice.

This whole thing has me not feeling very nice. BioWare can delete my account for all I care at this point.

[DirtySHISN0]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

RocketManSR2 wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

arial wrote...

they get the point, they are just not submitting to angry fans complaining, just how Governments don't negotiate with terrorists

+1

Oh look, an idiot supporting an idiotic post.

Oh look a hater being a jackass

Children please, each is entitled to his or her opinion.

[LinksOcarina]

Alex Kershaw wrote...

Shepard Cmdr wrote...

Alex Kershaw wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Alex Kershaw wrote...

You took that quote completely out of context... I'm referring to not just the ability to pay to retcon the ending, but the entire Fallout 3 storyline of a boring plot, mediocre and unmemorable characters and an ending that only changes in whether the player lives or dies, and that ONE decision can be retconned anyway! You'd be happy if that was the ME3 story???

EDIT: I guess a couple of other people also took my post out of context so maybe I was unclear 

Are you asking if I'd be happy if the only ending variable in ME3 was whether Shepard lives or dies?
If done well, why not? We don't NEED 3/4 options with vastly different results shoved in the last 5 minutes, especially when those vastly different results end up not amounting to much difference at all.

Okay, to clarify:

I wasn't originally asking you anything.  My original post was in response to somebody else who claimed that Fallout 3 was as good a story-driven game as Mass Effect, and I summed up the Fallout 3 story experience and asked that person whether they would be happy with something of that quality in ME3. You then hijacked the conversation, taking my quote about the ending of Fallout 3 into the ending and used it as an excuse to further express your obvious hatred-of-Mass-Effect/too-much-time-on-your-hands.

As I stated in the OP and following posts, I do not hate Mass Effect, I love it.  That is why I am making such a big deal about being disappointed in the final product that is ME3.

What is it about you and The Angry One thinking that every single post is directed at you? Were you at any point included in the quotes above?

They like being the center of attention. That is narcissism for you. 

Although to be fair, I have done that too, I think we all secretly want to be the center of attention in these "debates"

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 04 août 2012 - 05:49 .

[KotorEffect3]

RocketManSR2 wrote...

Ghost1017 wrote...

That's not very nice.

This whole thing has me not feeling very nice. BioWare can delete my account for all I care at this point.

Oh is it your time of month again?  If you want to take your ball and go home feel free.  Hope the door hits you on the ass on the way out.

Modifié par KotorEffect3, 04 août 2012 - 05:48 .

[LinksOcarina]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

RocketManSR2 wrote...

Ghost1017 wrote...

That's not very nice.

This whole thing has me not feeling very nice. BioWare can delete my account for all I care at this point.

Oh is it your time of month again?

Kotor, shut up.

You are not helping things at all here. just back off.

[The Angry One]

LinksOcarina wrote...

Bold words for someone who tends to shy away from me half of the time. 

So everyone must respond to everything you say all the time? Well, that's not egotistical.

As for the next Mass Effect game, well see. I would be willing to bet money it will be a success still, meaning this entire ordeal will mean othing in the grand scheme of things. Of course, this is assuming there is another Mass Effect game; considering the endings of Mass Effect 3, I would be surprised if there is one 100-200 years down the line, but hey ive been wrong before.

They've mumbled something about prequels. There will be one, that much is certain.
Whether it will be a success remains to be seen.

The last game series I remember trying to compensate for irrevocably breaking it's own universe with a prequel is Star Ocean 4. There is yet to be even a mention of a Star Ocean 5.

By th eway, the attitude after the fact is hard to gague at this point. Sometimes it feels like they are sick of the negativity that happens around here, other times they feel bad for letting people down. And honestly, there is no way to really say you know what Walters' attitude is, and if it is stemming from how the reject ending went...well...I can't help why you make assumptions like that.

His refusal to communicate, the tone of the EC and BioWare's general attempts at taunting the fanbase tell me all I need to know.
A developer who is genuinely sorry for any mistakes they've made will say so. Even Peter Molyneux will admit his flaws and mistakes, even if he keeps making them.

Yes yes "Oh no how could he possibly communicate with angry fans over the internet. They might be MEAN to him!"

[KotorEffect3]

LinksOcarina wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

RocketManSR2 wrote...

Ghost1017 wrote...

That's not very nice.

This whole thing has me not feeling very nice. BioWare can delete my account for all I care at this point.

Oh is it your time of month again?

Kotor, shut up.

You are not helping things at all here. just back off.

No, he started at me.

[dirty console peasant]

Alex Kershaw wrote...

Shepard Cmdr wrote...

Alex Kershaw wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Alex Kershaw wrote...

You took that quote completely out of context... I'm referring to not just the ability to pay to retcon the ending, but the entire Fallout 3 storyline of a boring plot, mediocre and unmemorable characters and an ending that only changes in whether the player lives or dies, and that ONE decision can be retconned anyway! You'd be happy if that was the ME3 story???

EDIT: I guess a couple of other people also took my post out of context so maybe I was unclear 

Are you asking if I'd be happy if the only ending variable in ME3 was whether Shepard lives or dies?
If done well, why not? We don't NEED 3/4 options with vastly different results shoved in the last 5 minutes, especially when those vastly different results end up not amounting to much difference at all.

Okay, to clarify:

I wasn't originally asking you anything.  My original post was in response to somebody else who claimed that Fallout 3 was as good a story-driven game as Mass Effect, and I summed up the Fallout 3 story experience and asked that person whether they would be happy with something of that quality in ME3. You then hijacked the conversation, taking my quote about the ending of Fallout 3 into the ending and used it as an excuse to further express your obvious hatred-of-Mass-Effect/too-much-time-on-your-hands.

As I stated in the OP and following posts, I do not hate Mass Effect, I love it.  That is why I am making such a big deal about being disappointed in the final product that is ME3.

What is it about you and The Angry One thinking that every single post is directed at you? Were you at any point included in the quotes above?

First of all the part about "obvious hatred-of-Mass-Effect/too-much-time-on-your-hands" maybe I am overreacting because of all of the other comments on the discussion about the ending.  But you definitely were talking to The Angry One, and I was simply inserting my two cents

[AresKeith]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

RocketManSR2 wrote...

Ghost1017 wrote...

That's not very nice.

This whole thing has me not feeling very nice. BioWare can delete my account for all I care at this point.

Oh is it your time of month again?

Kotor, shut up.

You are not helping things at all here. just back off.

No, he started at me.

kids back in the corners

[-Skorpious-]

The funny thing about this whole situation is that Bioware can diffuse it with a simple, honest admittance of fault; a recognition that ME3 let many fans down and failed to live up to expectations. Being honest isn't a sign of weakness or ineptitude - it is a sign of maturity and respect, an indication that you care and value the people who have been negatively affected by your actions, even if you disagree with them.

Why Bioware has yet to do so is beyond me.