159 réponses à ce sujet

[AresKeith]

The Angry One wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

Bold words for someone who tends to shy away from me half of the time. 

So everyone must respond to everything you say all the time? Well, that's not egotistical.

As for the next Mass Effect game, well see. I would be willing to bet money it will be a success still, meaning this entire ordeal will mean othing in the grand scheme of things. Of course, this is assuming there is another Mass Effect game; considering the endings of Mass Effect 3, I would be surprised if there is one 100-200 years down the line, but hey ive been wrong before.

They've mumbled something about prequels. There will be one, that much is certain.
Whether it will be a success remains to be seen.

The last game series I remember trying to compensate for irrevocably breaking it's own universe with a prequel is Star Ocean 4. There is yet to be even a mention of a Star Ocean 5.

By th eway, the attitude after the fact is hard to gague at this point. Sometimes it feels like they are sick of the negativity that happens around here, other times they feel bad for letting people down. And honestly, there is no way to really say you know what Walters' attitude is, and if it is stemming from how the reject ending went...well...I can't help why you make assumptions like that.

His refusal to communicate, the tone of the EC and BioWare's general attempts at taunting the fanbase tell me all I need to know.
A developer who is genuinely sorry for any mistakes they've made will say so. Even Peter Molyneux will admit his flaws and mistakes, even if he keeps making them.

Yes yes "Oh no how could he possibly communicate with angry fans over the internet. They might be MEAN to him!"

I hope they don't do a Mass Effect prequel, because that can bite them in the ass

[Ithurael]

This thread is not going anywhere nice real fast...

Shame that the fan base is fighting each other more than discussing the content of the game.

This makes me a sad panda

[-Skorpious-]

 
The funny thing about this whole situation is that Bioware can diffuse it with a simple, honest admittance of fault; a recognition that ME3 let many fans down and failed to live up to expectations. Being honest isn't a sign of weakness or ineptitude - it is a sign of maturity and respect, an indication that you care and value the people who have been negatively affected by your actions, even if you disagree with them.

Why Bioware has yet to do so is beyond me.

[Ithurael]

-Skorpious- wrote...

The funny thing about this whole situation is that Bioware can diffuse it with a simple, honest admittance of fault; a recognition that ME3 let many fans down and failed to live up to expectations. Being honest isn't a sign of weakness or ineptitude - it is a sign of maturity and respect, an indication that you care and value the people who have been negatively affected by your actions, even if you disagree with them.

Why Bioware has yet to do so is beyond me.

Bioware won't do this and I really don't think it will help. Owning your mistake is what they did with the EC. That is as good as it will get. I respect them for what they gave us. And the removal of the "Buy more dlc" message at the end was probably one of the single greatest improvements I saw.

Now...if only they can fix the journal...

[Conniving_Eagle]

AresKeith wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

Bold words for someone who tends to shy away from me half of the time. 

So everyone must respond to everything you say all the time? Well, that's not egotistical.

As for the next Mass Effect game, well see. I would be willing to bet money it will be a success still, meaning this entire ordeal will mean othing in the grand scheme of things. Of course, this is assuming there is another Mass Effect game; considering the endings of Mass Effect 3, I would be surprised if there is one 100-200 years down the line, but hey ive been wrong before.

They've mumbled something about prequels. There will be one, that much is certain.
Whether it will be a success remains to be seen.

The last game series I remember trying to compensate for irrevocably breaking it's own universe with a prequel is Star Ocean 4. There is yet to be even a mention of a Star Ocean 5.

By th eway, the attitude after the fact is hard to gague at this point. Sometimes it feels like they are sick of the negativity that happens around here, other times they feel bad for letting people down. And honestly, there is no way to really say you know what Walters' attitude is, and if it is stemming from how the reject ending went...well...I can't help why you make assumptions like that.

His refusal to communicate, the tone of the EC and BioWare's general attempts at taunting the fanbase tell me all I need to know.
A developer who is genuinely sorry for any mistakes they've made will say so. Even Peter Molyneux will admit his flaws and mistakes, even if he keeps making them.

Yes yes "Oh no how could he possibly communicate with angry fans over the internet. They might be MEAN to him!"

I hope they don't do a Mass Effect prequel, because that can bite them in the ass

Lol, what will it be about? Are they going to take the idea of the idiots who want First Contact?

[habitat 67]

What I love the most is that nobody is being paid to stay here and post. Indirect question: Why surround yourself with something that makes you miserable? When you see a stinky poopy diaper, do you put in on your face and continually inhale deeply, infinitely screaming about the smell?

[Darth Death]

lol funny thread. Plenty of entertainment to go around.

[Conniving_Eagle]

Ithurael wrote...

This thread is not going anywhere nice real fast...

Shame that the fan base is fighting each other more than discussing the content of the game.

This makes me a sad panda

These forums have been awfully vicious lately.

[LinksOcarina]

The Angry One wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

Bold words for someone who tends to shy away from me half of the time. 

So everyone must respond to everything you say all the time? Well, that's not egotistical.

As for the next Mass Effect game, well see. I would be willing to bet money it will be a success still, meaning this entire ordeal will mean othing in the grand scheme of things. Of course, this is assuming there is another Mass Effect game; considering the endings of Mass Effect 3, I would be surprised if there is one 100-200 years down the line, but hey ive been wrong before.

They've mumbled something about prequels. There will be one, that much is certain.
Whether it will be a success remains to be seen.

The last game series I remember trying to compensate for irrevocably breaking it's own universe with a prequel is Star Ocean 4. There is yet to be even a mention of a Star Ocean 5.

By th eway, the attitude after the fact is hard to gague at this point. Sometimes it feels like they are sick of the negativity that happens around here, other times they feel bad for letting people down. And honestly, there is no way to really say you know what Walters' attitude is, and if it is stemming from how the reject ending went...well...I can't help why you make assumptions like that.

His refusal to communicate, the tone of the EC and BioWare's general attempts at taunting the fanbase tell me all I need to know.
A developer who is genuinely sorry for any mistakes they've made will say so. Even Peter Molyneux will admit his flaws and mistakes, even if he keeps making them.

Yes yes "Oh no how could he possibly communicate with angry fans over the internet. They might be MEAN to him!"

I guess it is a bit egotistical. Ah well.

You are rigth about the prequel stuff, I heard that too. We shall see I guess if it happens or not. I am sure there will be more Mass Effect games, i'm just not sure how it will translate into the current sitatuon that is the Mass Effect 3 ending, because its going to ****** off more if they make one canon, once the prequels are over with.

As for Walters...taunting the fanbase? I thought it was hilarious when you shoot the catalyst and he gets pissed off. It kind of sums up how I bet Walters feel's. Maybe a bit in bad taste, but considering how the fan-base acts around here, i'm not surprised they have said nothing to anyone in the current climate.

If he says nothing, thats his choice. I don't think of it as arrogance or poor taste, I just think of it as him not caring what people think, and doing his job to the best of his abilities. Like a real screen-writer/author. 

[clarkusdarkus]

The Angry One wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

We will find out with BioWares next game. If it is a success then I believe you are off base. 

We'll find out with their next Mass Effect game. Dragon Age still has a chance to make or break it's fanbase with the next game due to different development teams.

But if you don't think ME3 has alienated many of it's core fans, who were quite dedicated, then you're just refusing to see the truth.

Before  ME3 i considered myself dedicated and a core fan, now after ME3 and how bioware have handled the whole process has lost me as a consumer.without doubt......and i know of many others who are the same, but the difference will be will the new fans they aquired with ME3 cancel out those like myself whom they have lost. Time will tell

[DirtySHISN0]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Ithurael wrote...

This thread is not going anywhere nice real fast...

Shame that the fan base is fighting each other more than discussing the content of the game.

This makes me a sad panda

These forums have been awfully vicious lately.

With the force of a thousand suns, this ↑

[Conniving_Eagle]

habitat 67 wrote...

What I love the most is that nobody is being paid to stay here and post. Indirect question: Why surround yourself with something that makes you miserable? When you see a stinky poopy diaper, do you put in on your face and continually inhale deeply, infinitely screaming about the smell?

If I had dime for every time I read this inane question I could probably by the Collector's Edition of Mass Effect 3.

[The Angry One]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Lol, what will it be about? Are they going to take the idea of the idiots who want First Contact?

I can totally see them retconning the First Contact War from a skirmish that was ended when the Council told the kids to behave into a full blown galaxy spanning saga that lasted several years with 100 human fleets pulled out of thin air clashing against the Turians.

[LinksOcarina]

habitat 67 wrote...

What I love the most is that nobody is being paid to stay here and post. Indirect question: Why surround yourself with something that makes you miserable? When you see a stinky poopy diaper, do you put in on your face and continually inhale deeply, infinitely screaming about the smell?

The teacher in me is compelled to educate people when they are misinformed or just acting foolish. And to be honest, I am a tad arrogant to the fact that I think I am never wrong in what I say until proven otherwise, that internet entitlement coming into play a bit.

Ah well, recognizing self-flaws makes me sleep at night with no problems. I don't know if I can say the same for others on here. 

[Conniving_Eagle]

The Angry One wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Lol, what will it be about? Are they going to take the idea of the idiots who want First Contact?

I can totally see them retconning the First Contact War from a skirmish that was ended when the Council told the kids to behave into a full blown galaxy spanning saga that lasted several years with 100 human fleets pulled out of thin air clashing against the Turians.

Nothing Bioware does is a surprise these days (except for owning up to their mistakes). A good prequel wouldn't include humans, and a prequel not that far from the events of ME1 will have a weak plot. Even then, what could they possibly do
? Rachni War? Yeah, let's fight these evil monsters and keep them from destroying the galaxy!

[LinksOcarina]

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Ithurael wrote...

This thread is not going anywhere nice real fast...

Shame that the fan base is fighting each other more than discussing the content of the game.

This makes me a sad panda

These forums have been awfully vicious lately.

With the force of a thousand suns, this ↑

I agree. I'm getting tired of putting people down.

But on the flipside i'm getting tired of people spreading lies and bull****. I guess its a fair trade. 

[AresKeith]

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Ithurael wrote...

This thread is not going anywhere nice real fast...

Shame that the fan base is fighting each other more than discussing the content of the game.

This makes me a sad panda

These forums have been awfully vicious lately.

With the force of a thousand suns, this ↑

maybe Bane from TDKR is behind this

[The Angry One]

LinksOcarina wrote...

I guess it is a bit egotistical. Ah well.

You are rigth about the prequel stuff, I heard that too. We shall see I guess if it happens or not. I am sure there will be more Mass Effect games, i'm just not sure how it will translate into the current sitatuon that is the Mass Effect 3 ending, because its going to ****** off more if they make one canon, once the prequels are over with.

As for Walters...taunting the fanbase? I thought it was hilarious when you shoot the catalyst and he gets pissed off. It kind of sums up how I bet Walters feel's. Maybe a bit in bad taste, but considering how the fan-base acts around here, i'm not surprised they have said nothing to anyone in the current climate.

I didn't like it, thought it to be an immature jab and it also undermined his own character (in the same EC as he tries to establish that the Catalyst was built for diplomacy, he has it react insanely violently to it's hologram being shot. Yeah I think I know why peace between organics and synthetics was impossible).

If he says nothing, thats his choice. I don't think of it as arrogance or poor taste, I just think of it as him not caring what people think, and doing his job to the best of his abilities. Like a real screen-writer/author. 

Real writers *do* care what people think. They don't write by consensus, sure. But they don't hide behind catchphrases like artistic integrity and look down on their fanbase for making genuine criticism either.

In the end though, yes it's his choice. Just like it's my choice to never purchase anything with his name on it as lead writer. I do not like his style of writing, somewhat like I don't read Tom Clancy books as I'm not a fan of macho jingoism.

Modifié par The Angry One, 04 août 2012 - 06:04 .

[LinksOcarina]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Lol, what will it be about? Are they going to take the idea of the idiots who want First Contact?

I can totally see them retconning the First Contact War from a skirmish that was ended when the Council told the kids to behave into a full blown galaxy spanning saga that lasted several years with 100 human fleets pulled out of thin air clashing against the Turians.

Nothing Bioware does is a surprise these days (except for owning up to their mistakes). A good prequel wouldn't include humans, and a prequel not that far from the events of ME1 will have a weak plot. Even then, what could they possibly do
? Rachni War? Yeah, let's fight these evil monsters and keep them from destroying the galaxy!

You know, a prequel doesn't have to be a full blown, morality based RPG. It could be a straight up action-style RPG with the current mechanics locked in. The storyline would be linear for the main plot, but the side-missions can have some consequences in-game maybe.

[-Skorpious-]

Ithurael wrote...

-Skorpious- wrote...

The funny thing about this whole situation is that Bioware can diffuse it with a simple, honest admittance of fault; a recognition that ME3 let many fans down and failed to live up to expectations. Being honest isn't a sign of weakness or ineptitude - it is a sign of maturity and respect, an indication that you care and value the people who have been negatively affected by your actions, even if you disagree with them.

Why Bioware has yet to do so is beyond me.

Bioware won't do this and I really don't think it will help. Owning your mistake is what they did with the EC. That is as good as it will get. I respect them for what they gave us. And the removal of the "Buy more dlc" message at the end was probably one of the single greatest improvements I saw.

Now...if only they can fix the journal...

While I can't say that they will or won't own up to their mistakes, I know for a fact it will help. Take me for instance. If Bioware admits that ME3 caused an unnecessary schism in the fanbase, I will can start judging their games and content without bias. 

Yes, the EC helped, I won't deny that. But was that Bioware's intention all along? Did they honestly want to create the EC? Or did the monumental backlash force them to? And if so, how does that explain Bioware's continued dismissive attitude towards fans who are searching for a reason to care for Mass Effect and Bioware again? 

[Cyberstrike nTo]

Shepard Cmdr wrote...

-Skorpious- wrote...

We all paid for a complete game. Was it what we expected? No. Was part of it due to Bioware's misleading press statements? Yes.

Bioware attempted to address our concerns with the EC, so I have moved on from any desires to see the ending changed. But what hasn't changed - what no DLC can change - is an admittance from Bioware developers that their misleading comments have reasonably upset their fanbase.

We don't need a new ending - we need honesty and humility.

In my case and obviously quite a few others the EC did nothing to fix the ending it simply polished the turd.  If they were to simply add in a conventional victory for example it would fix quite a few problems with the game, because then your choices could matter, depending on how they do it, also they could implment the EMS in a better fashion.  An apology would go quite a way, but they can and should fix the ending.

The Alliance tried a conventional victory and lost at the start of the game. Plus it's stated several times:
"You can't the Reapers conventionally" this stated by Hackett, Liara, and Shepard. The EMS is for guarding the Crucible and Hammer ground forces that is all.

So either you turn Shepard, Liara, and Hackett into morons who don't know what the hell they're talking about and turn the Reapers from a serious threat into a joke, or accept that you can't beat them conventionally.

I'll take the latter because it makes more sense, then the former two. Hell the Catalyst's logic makes more sense then this constant whinning about a so-called "conventional victory" crap.  

[dirty console peasant]

Cyberstrike nTo wrote...

Shepard Cmdr wrote...

-Skorpious- wrote...

We all paid for a complete game. Was it what we expected? No. Was part of it due to Bioware's misleading press statements? Yes.

Bioware attempted to address our concerns with the EC, so I have moved on from any desires to see the ending changed. But what hasn't changed - what no DLC can change - is an admittance from Bioware developers that their misleading comments have reasonably upset their fanbase.

We don't need a new ending - we need honesty and humility.

In my case and obviously quite a few others the EC did nothing to fix the ending it simply polished the turd.  If they were to simply add in a conventional victory for example it would fix quite a few problems with the game, because then your choices could matter, depending on how they do it, also they could implment the EMS in a better fashion.  An apology would go quite a way, but they can and should fix the ending.

The Alliance tried a conventional victory and lost at the start of the game. Plus it's stated several times:
"You can't the Reapers conventionally" this stated by Hackett, Liara, and Shepard. The EMS is for guarding the Crucible and Hammer ground forces that is all.

So either you turn Shepard, Liara, and Hackett into morons who don't know what the hell they're talking about and turn the Reapers from a serious threat into a joke, or accept that you can't beat them conventionally.

I'll take the latter because it makes more sense, then the former two. Hell the Catalyst's logic makes more sense then this constant whinning about a so-called "conventional victory" crap.  

read this thread
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/12878011

[LinksOcarina]

The Angry One wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

I guess it is a bit egotistical. Ah well.

You are rigth about the prequel stuff, I heard that too. We shall see I guess if it happens or not. I am sure there will be more Mass Effect games, i'm just not sure how it will translate into the current sitatuon that is the Mass Effect 3 ending, because its going to ****** off more if they make one canon, once the prequels are over with.

As for Walters...taunting the fanbase? I thought it was hilarious when you shoot the catalyst and he gets pissed off. It kind of sums up how I bet Walters feel's. Maybe a bit in bad taste, but considering how the fan-base acts around here, i'm not surprised they have said nothing to anyone in the current climate.

I didn't like it, thought it to be an immature jab and it also undermined his own character (in the same EC as he tries to establish that the Catalyst was built for diplomacy, it has it react insanely violently to it's hologram being shot. Yeah I think I know why peace between organics and synthetics was impossible).

If he says nothing, thats his choice. I don't think of it as arrogance or poor taste, I just think of it as him not caring what people think, and doing his job to the best of his abilities. Like a real screen-writer/author. 

Real writers *do* care what people think. They don't write by consensus, sure. But they don't hide behind catchphrases like artistic integrity and look down on their fanbase for making genuine criticism either.

In the end though, yes it's his choice. Just like it's my choice to never purchase anything with his name on it as lead writer. I do not like his style of writing, somewhat like I don't read Tom Clancy books as I'm not a fan of macho jingoism.

there is a quote by Neil Gaiman that I am sadly going to have to paraphrase. He was in a movie called "The People vs George Lucas" which is pretty much all about, well, this fan-creator disconnect that exists in popular media. 

And quote is regarding fan-made products and why he won't change his work. 

"I like fan-made works. It is an absolutely legitemate and really cool response to the art. But I also don't believe that these fans have the right to go and knock on my door and say, "well I didn't like this and I think you should remove that character from your story." because it's like no, I got to make this, this came out of my head, leave me alone."

In the end, those who create works like this really don't have to be on the beck and call to anyone, because it is their work. You as a consumer can not like their work and not support it, thats fine. But why complain about it? Why say, "oh, i'll give BioWare money for this team because they are better, or I can still trust them to deliver a good game?" And for what reason is that, then? for a thinly veiled hope they will remove the guy I hate. Or for a return to lost glory and to happier days?

That  to me undermines your own cause, in my opinion, because you still support the artists, you still support the authors and their work, because the studio is the one reaping the benefits and dispersing the rewards to everyone in the end.  You are not being bold by saying they have one more shot to please me, you are just finding an excuse to be pleased by them again. If you really wanted to be bold, Angry One, you would stop buying BioWare games all together.

But you do what you want, I can't influnce you there, nor is it my place to. I am just pointing out how it seems a tad, well, hypocritical in the end, despite it making a degree of sense at first. 

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 04 août 2012 - 06:22 .

[InvincibleHero]

People like the endings haters are why games are becoming more stale and less innovative. People expect every action they choose to have a positive outcome. They must have total victory on their terms and not the developers who want to tell their story. Games used to be more difficult having one solution and dozens of red herrings. It actually felt like an accomplishment. Now they are largely linear and easier. They take less imagination and are constructed thus. Let devs do their magic on their terms. When they started listening to fans overmuch the problems began in earnest.

Yeah Iget you might not like it, but it is all about what you want. BW put out a product from their vision and hard work and if your visions intersect then you have satsifaction. If you do not see that vision then you have les satisfaction. the dissappointment is then based on who you are and how the game was made.

Personally, if the game is well made and fun then I enjoy it regardless of the end or slight inconsistencies within. Some people choose to dwell on many small things and say it ruins the whole and others the end kills the whole series apparently. Some people cannot get over it for their own reasons.

It is a game and people put too much effort into forcing their vision of what they wanted the game to be on others and especially on bioware.