253 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

Genetic Destiny wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Catalyst " I'm your enemy, that has been trying to kill you for multiple years, but I'm going to let you control me by grabbing those two handles and killing yourself"

Shepard: "But...there's four handles..."

1. It a shackled AI for to do it's programing.

2. It know this is it last cyccle it can do it.

3. It does not want to reap and even it sees it as a flawed salution.

4. The crucible control it, not it controls the crucible.

5. And if you being up what happens in refuse, understand this....YOu told it you will not change/rewrite/destroy it, it's now doing the only option it has left, the reaper salution. Ofcouse it will stop any thing that can stop it at this point.

[Seival]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Why do you believe the catalyst?

The original Catalyst could left Shepard to die near the Anderson. But instead it helped her, and admitted its own mistakes. It has no reasons to lie.

[aj2070]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Not trying to start a war, just trying to get some insight.
For players who choose Control.

Why do you believe the catalyst? The Prothean VI, Vendetta, tells you that there was a splinter Prothean group who split apart and wanted to control the Reapers, but they failed. He also tells you countless cycles have tried the same, but they failed. TIM tried it and failed. So why do you believe that Shepard can do it, he's not god or a divine person, he's the same as everyone else who failed when trying to control the Reapers, a person. So why do you think Shepard can do it when countless of cycles before him have failed?

Simple: I don't.  Shepard tells TIM not less than 5 minutes earlier that even if humanity could control the reapers, we are not ready.  Why would we suddenly be just because The Catalyst offers the choice to Shepard?  Again, The Catalyst's "logic" is flawed.

...and what Taboo said about a benevolent dictator...

[Genetic Destiny]

mongoosephantom wrote...

Genetic Destiny wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Catalyst " I'm your enemy, that has been trying to kill you for multiple years, but I'm going to let you control me by grabbing those two handles and killing yourself"

Shepard: "But...there's four handles..."

I guess the first race to come up with the Crucible had 4 hands. Could be the Leviathans.

If so, then I bet those arrogant 4-armed aliens only wanted a member of their species to do it. The nerve of those things...

[Genetic Destiny]

dreman9999 wrote...

Genetic Destiny wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Catalyst " I'm your enemy, that has been trying to kill you for multiple years, but I'm going to let you control me by grabbing those two handles and killing yourself"

Shepard: "But...there's four handles..."

1. It a shackled AI for to do it's programing.

2. It know this is it last cyccle it can do it.

3. It does not want to reap and even it sees it as a flawed salution.

4. The crucible control it, not it controls the crucible.

5. And if you being up what happens in refuse, understand this....YOu told it you will not change/rewrite/destroy it, it's now doing the only option it has left, the reaper salution. Ofcouse it will stop any thing that can stop it at this point.

Where are you going with this? I'm just lightening up the situation.

Modifié par Genetic Destiny, 04 août 2012 - 05:29 .

[Isichar]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Isichar wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Destroying hasn't been seen to work, but neither has there been a super-weapon.

And before you says "Control hasn't work, but neither has there been a super-weapon" the difference that people have tried many ways to Control the Reapers and failed, the only way cycles have fought the Reapers was by conventional warfare, no cycle has had the crucible deployed but Shepard's cycle.

Sorry but all you can assume is that the crucible has never been used to destroy the reapers or try and control them. For that reason each option is as likely to work as the other. As for the other options used for control or to fight the reapers we dont actually know how each cycle handled that but we do know it was not done in the same method.

Infact TIM would not even be able to use the crucible if he tried. Due to the indoctrination (which I am willing to bet the vast majority of the people who even tried to control the reapers were indoctrinated) 

Shepards experiences may make he less likely to believe it is possible to control the reapers, but I still dont think you can actually claim using the crucible to control is a higher risk when it is a new method compared to anything else your told.


Honestly if some spaceghost told you jumping into a beam would fuse all organic and synthetic life in the galaxy, would you find that more believable then controlling the reapers?

No, It's a fact this is the first time that the Crucible has been deployed. 

Also, that's the point I'm trying to make. If a spaceghost told me

Jumping to the beam would fuse all organic and synthetic life- sounds stupid but has never been tried and proven to fail.

Using a handle to Control the Reapers- Sounds stupid and has been tried countless of times and has proved all the time to fail.

I would rather choose the jumping to the beam one.

We are going around in circles. I still dont think you have any reason to believe destroy would work over control. Both have been tried both have failed. Neither have been tried with the crucible, thus neither result can be concluded.

End of story.

It does not matter what methods were used for destroy or control before, because neither was done with the crucible. Your entitled to your opinion that control is stupid, on a personal note I would tend to agree. However from an objective standpoint I cannot say that the risks are different based attempts that had nothing to do with the crucible to begin with.

Indoctrinated slaves failing to control their masters does not prove that the giant super-weapon that has never been fired before wont work.

[dreman9999]

AresKeith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
He stayed the same character. He a person who will do what ever it takes to do his goal. That stayed the same in ME3. Added he was right about controling the reapers.

Uh... Not really. He just became power hungry in ME3.

....Just became power hundry? LOL...He was always power hungry.  The reason TIM did everything he did after the mars mission is because we had the info on the crucible and he wanted to slow us down. He was alway power hungry. The only difference now is that he is more direct then before. He still is the do eveny thung to up lift humanity person he always was. He just went to the extreme now. 

because he was indoctrinated and controlled by the Reapers

But his state of thing is the same before. What Reapers do with indoctrination I take the person beleifs and warp it to the point that those befeif see the reapers as a salution or a benifit.........
And now I see that  synthesis is indoctrination....
Back on point, even indoctrinated, TIM still has the same concept and beliefs as before, to up lift humanity. He still will do want ever it takes to do that. That has not change since we first met him.

[AresKeith]

dreman9999 wrote...

Genetic Destiny wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Catalyst " I'm your enemy, that has been trying to kill you for multiple years, but I'm going to let you control me by grabbing those two handles and killing yourself"

Shepard: "But...there's four handles..."

1. It a shackled AI for to do it's programing.

2. It know this is it last cyccle it can do it.

3. It does not want to reap and even it sees it as a flawed salution.

4. The crucible control it, not it controls the crucible.

5. And if you being up what happens in refuse, understand this....YOu told it you will not change/rewrite/destroy it, it's now doing the only option it has left, the reaper salution. Ofcouse it will stop any thing that can stop it at this point.

the Catalyst never states its a shackled AI, and the Control option is by the Citadel but powered by the Crucible, it doesn't control anything only powers it

[dreman9999]

Isichar wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Isichar wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Destroying hasn't been seen to work, but neither has there been a super-weapon.

And before you says "Control hasn't work, but neither has there been a super-weapon" the difference that people have tried many ways to Control the Reapers and failed, the only way cycles have fought the Reapers was by conventional warfare, no cycle has had the crucible deployed but Shepard's cycle.

Sorry but all you can assume is that the crucible has never been used to destroy the reapers or try and control them. For that reason each option is as likely to work as the other. As for the other options used for control or to fight the reapers we dont actually know how each cycle handled that but we do know it was not done in the same method.

Infact TIM would not even be able to use the crucible if he tried. Due to the indoctrination (which I am willing to bet the vast majority of the people who even tried to control the reapers were indoctrinated) 

Shepards experiences may make he less likely to believe it is possible to control the reapers, but I still dont think you can actually claim using the crucible to control is a higher risk when it is a new method compared to anything else your told.


Honestly if some spaceghost told you jumping into a beam would fuse all organic and synthetic life in the galaxy, would you find that more believable then controlling the reapers?

No, It's a fact this is the first time that the Crucible has been deployed. 

Also, that's the point I'm trying to make. If a spaceghost told me

Jumping to the beam would fuse all organic and synthetic life- sounds stupid but has never been tried and proven to fail.

Using a handle to Control the Reapers- Sounds stupid and has been tried countless of times and has proved all the time to fail.

I would rather choose the jumping to the beam one.

We are going around in circles. I still dont think you have any reason to believe destroy would work over control. Both have been tried both have failed. Neither have been tried with the crucible, thus neither result can be concluded.

End of story.

It does not matter what methods were used for destroy or control before, because neither was done with the crucible. Your entitled to your opinion that control is stupid, on a personal note I would tend to agree. However from an objective standpoint I cannot say that the risks are different based attempts that had nothing to do with the crucible to begin with.

Indoctrinated slaves failing to control their masters does not prove that the giant super-weapon that has never been fired before wont work.

Nether option had yet to be tried before this cycle. Both boths are viable.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

dreman9999 wrote...

Genetic Destiny wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Catalyst " I'm your enemy, that has been trying to kill you for multiple years, but I'm going to let you control me by grabbing those two handles and killing yourself"

Shepard: "But...there's four handles..."

1. It a shackled AI for to do it's programing.

2. It know this is it last cyccle it can do it.

3. It does not want to reap and even it sees it as a flawed salution.

4. The crucible control it, not it controls the crucible.

5. And if you being up what happens in refuse, understand this....YOu told it you will not change/rewrite/destroy it, it's now doing the only option it has left, the reaper salution. Ofcouse it will stop any thing that can stop it at this point.

1. Who says, him? does not make it credible evidence and a reason to believe him?

2.What? Please point to where he mentioned or implyed that in any way?

3.Not flawed, but he wants a new one because Shepard made it far. He has no problem to continue with his current solution, as proven by Refusal ending.

4. Again, I don't take the word from the guy trying to kill me.

5.What's the pont  your trying to get across?

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Isichar wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Isichar wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Destroying hasn't been seen to work, but neither has there been a super-weapon.

And before you says "Control hasn't work, but neither has there been a super-weapon" the difference that people have tried many ways to Control the Reapers and failed, the only way cycles have fought the Reapers was by conventional warfare, no cycle has had the crucible deployed but Shepard's cycle.

Sorry but all you can assume is that the crucible has never been used to destroy the reapers or try and control them. For that reason each option is as likely to work as the other. As for the other options used for control or to fight the reapers we dont actually know how each cycle handled that but we do know it was not done in the same method.

Infact TIM would not even be able to use the crucible if he tried. Due to the indoctrination (which I am willing to bet the vast majority of the people who even tried to control the reapers were indoctrinated) 

Shepards experiences may make he less likely to believe it is possible to control the reapers, but I still dont think you can actually claim using the crucible to control is a higher risk when it is a new method compared to anything else your told.


Honestly if some spaceghost told you jumping into a beam would fuse all organic and synthetic life in the galaxy, would you find that more believable then controlling the reapers?

No, It's a fact this is the first time that the Crucible has been deployed. 

Also, that's the point I'm trying to make. If a spaceghost told me

Jumping to the beam would fuse all organic and synthetic life- sounds stupid but has never been tried and proven to fail.

Using a handle to Control the Reapers- Sounds stupid and has been tried countless of times and has proved all the time to fail.

I would rather choose the jumping to the beam one.

We are going around in circles. I still dont think you have any reason to believe destroy would work over control. Both have been tried both have failed. Neither have been tried with the crucible, thus neither result can be concluded.

End of story.

It does not matter what methods were used for destroy or control before, because neither was done with the crucible. Your entitled to your opinion that control is stupid, on a personal note I would tend to agree. However from an objective standpoint I cannot say that the risks are different based attempts that had nothing to do with the crucible to begin with.

Indoctrinated slaves failing to control their masters does not prove that the giant super-weapon that has never been fired before wont work.

You still don't get it don't you....

Control has failed because people have tried multiple ways to control them but never work, Destroying the reaper by a super-weapon has never been tried or failed, the only thing cycles have tried to do is defeat Reapers conventionally.

[Ageless Face]

dreman9999 wrote...
....Just became power hundry? LOL...He was always power hungry.  The reason TIM did everything he did after the mars mission is because we had the info on the crucible and he wanted to slow us down. He was alway power hungry. The only difference now is that he is more direct then before. He still is the do eveny thung to up lift humanity person he always was. He just went to the extreme now. 

Nope. He was power hungry for humanity and Cerberus in ME2. For ME3, for himself and a little bit for Cerberus. He might talked about humanity few times, but it seems obvious his real intention was to keep the power for himself and go crazy with it.

"THINK OF THE POWER!!!!!!!!!" In so many conversations with him, I felt that's all he actually said.

[Isichar]

dreman9999 wrote...
Nether option had yet to be tried before this cycle. Both boths are viable.

Ty

[Applepie_Svk]

Seival wrote...


The original Catalyst could left Shepard to die near the Anderson. But instead it helped her, and admitted its own mistakes. It has no reasons to lie.

YO ARE FONY ! 

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Seival wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Why do you believe the catalyst?

The original Catalyst could left Shepard to die near the Anderson. But instead it helped her, and admitted its own mistakes. It has no reasons to lie.

Who said the catalyst brought him up, better yet, who says It wasn't the Catalyst programming who forced him to bring him up.

Who says that the catalyst is not trying to trick you, and all options destroy the crucible?

[dreman9999]

AresKeith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Genetic Destiny wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Catalyst " I'm your enemy, that has been trying to kill you for multiple years, but I'm going to let you control me by grabbing those two handles and killing yourself"

Shepard: "But...there's four handles..."

1. It a shackled AI for to do it's programing.

2. It know this is it last cyccle it can do it.

3. It does not want to reap and even it sees it as a flawed salution.

4. The crucible control it, not it controls the crucible.

5. And if you being up what happens in refuse, understand this....YOu told it you will not change/rewrite/destroy it, it's now doing the only option it has left, the reaper salution. Ofcouse it will stop any thing that can stop it at this point.

the Catalyst never states its a shackled AI, and the Control option is by the Citadel but powered by the Crucible, it doesn't control anything only powers it

1. Yes, it has...


2. Thing of the catalyst and crusble like a bow and arrow. The catalyst is the bow, the crucible is the arrows/ammunition. Even in that case the crucible controls the catalyst.

[Isichar]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Isichar wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Isichar wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Destroying hasn't been seen to work, but neither has there been a super-weapon.

And before you says "Control hasn't work, but neither has there been a super-weapon" the difference that people have tried many ways to Control the Reapers and failed, the only way cycles have fought the Reapers was by conventional warfare, no cycle has had the crucible deployed but Shepard's cycle.

Sorry but all you can assume is that the crucible has never been used to destroy the reapers or try and control them. For that reason each option is as likely to work as the other. As for the other options used for control or to fight the reapers we dont actually know how each cycle handled that but we do know it was not done in the same method.

Infact TIM would not even be able to use the crucible if he tried. Due to the indoctrination (which I am willing to bet the vast majority of the people who even tried to control the reapers were indoctrinated) 

Shepards experiences may make he less likely to believe it is possible to control the reapers, but I still dont think you can actually claim using the crucible to control is a higher risk when it is a new method compared to anything else your told.


Honestly if some spaceghost told you jumping into a beam would fuse all organic and synthetic life in the galaxy, would you find that more believable then controlling the reapers?

No, It's a fact this is the first time that the Crucible has been deployed. 

Also, that's the point I'm trying to make. If a spaceghost told me

Jumping to the beam would fuse all organic and synthetic life- sounds stupid but has never been tried and proven to fail.

Using a handle to Control the Reapers- Sounds stupid and has been tried countless of times and has proved all the time to fail.

I would rather choose the jumping to the beam one.

We are going around in circles. I still dont think you have any reason to believe destroy would work over control. Both have been tried both have failed. Neither have been tried with the crucible, thus neither result can be concluded.

End of story.

It does not matter what methods were used for destroy or control before, because neither was done with the crucible. Your entitled to your opinion that control is stupid, on a personal note I would tend to agree. However from an objective standpoint I cannot say that the risks are different based attempts that had nothing to do with the crucible to begin with.

Indoctrinated slaves failing to control their masters does not prove that the giant super-weapon that has never been fired before wont work.

You still don't get it don't you....

Control has failed because people have tried multiple ways to control them but never work, Destroying the reaper by a super-weapon has never been tried or failed, the only thing cycles have tried to do is defeat Reapers conventionally.

Ok I am out. Your entitled to your opinions, wrong as they may be.


Your logic is as circular and flawed as the catalysts is. Not my problem you cannot see it.

Modifié par Isichar, 04 août 2012 - 05:36 .

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Isichar wrote...

Ok I am out. Your entitled to your opinions, wrong as they may be.


Your logic is as circular and flawed as the catalysts is. Not my problem you cannot see it.

That shows a lot of deniance in your part. Leaving the argument by not respond to what I wrote, saying my logic is stupid, and then leaving.

[dreman9999]

HagarIshay wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
....Just became power hundry? LOL...He was always power hungry.  The reason TIM did everything he did after the mars mission is because we had the info on the crucible and he wanted to slow us down. He was alway power hungry. The only difference now is that he is more direct then before. He still is the do eveny thung to up lift humanity person he always was. He just went to the extreme now. 

Nope. He was power hungry for humanity and Cerberus in ME2. For ME3, for himself and a little bit for Cerberus. He might talked about humanity few times, but it seems obvious his real intention was to keep the power for himself and go crazy with it.

"THINK OF THE POWER!!!!!!!!!" In so many conversations with him, I felt that's all he actually said.

Please....The moment he said that cerberus is humanity in the end of ME2 when you blow up the base should of clued you in. He  is the same concept in ME3. He think he is up lifting humanity, he thinks he is key to that. That has not change since ME2. He is the same but going to the extremes.

Modifié par dreman9999, 04 août 2012 - 05:42 .

[dreman9999]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Seival wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Why do you believe the catalyst?

The original Catalyst could left Shepard to die near the Anderson. But instead it helped her, and admitted its own mistakes. It has no reasons to lie.

Who said the catalyst brought him up, better yet, who says It wasn't the Catalyst programming who forced him to bring him up.

Who says that the catalyst is not trying to trick you, and all options destroy the crucible?

The catalyst himself and the endings.
Point to where it was proven he was lieing.

[dreman9999]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Isichar wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Isichar wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Destroying hasn't been seen to work, but neither has there been a super-weapon.

And before you says "Control hasn't work, but neither has there been a super-weapon" the difference that people have tried many ways to Control the Reapers and failed, the only way cycles have fought the Reapers was by conventional warfare, no cycle has had the crucible deployed but Shepard's cycle.

Sorry but all you can assume is that the crucible has never been used to destroy the reapers or try and control them. For that reason each option is as likely to work as the other. As for the other options used for control or to fight the reapers we dont actually know how each cycle handled that but we do know it was not done in the same method.

Infact TIM would not even be able to use the crucible if he tried. Due to the indoctrination (which I am willing to bet the vast majority of the people who even tried to control the reapers were indoctrinated) 

Shepards experiences may make he less likely to believe it is possible to control the reapers, but I still dont think you can actually claim using the crucible to control is a higher risk when it is a new method compared to anything else your told.


Honestly if some spaceghost told you jumping into a beam would fuse all organic and synthetic life in the galaxy, would you find that more believable then controlling the reapers?

No, It's a fact this is the first time that the Crucible has been deployed. 

Also, that's the point I'm trying to make. If a spaceghost told me

Jumping to the beam would fuse all organic and synthetic life- sounds stupid but has never been tried and proven to fail.

Using a handle to Control the Reapers- Sounds stupid and has been tried countless of times and has proved all the time to fail.

I would rather choose the jumping to the beam one.

We are going around in circles. I still dont think you have any reason to believe destroy would work over control. Both have been tried both have failed. Neither have been tried with the crucible, thus neither result can be concluded.

End of story.

It does not matter what methods were used for destroy or control before, because neither was done with the crucible. Your entitled to your opinion that control is stupid, on a personal note I would tend to agree. However from an objective standpoint I cannot say that the risks are different based attempts that had nothing to do with the crucible to begin with.

Indoctrinated slaves failing to control their masters does not prove that the giant super-weapon that has never been fired before wont work.

You still don't get it don't you....

Control has failed because people have tried multiple ways to control them but never work, Destroying the reaper by a super-weapon has never been tried or failed, the only thing cycles have tried to do is defeat Reapers conventionally.

Give me a source stating they tried it before...then you can say it.

[dreman9999]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Isichar wrote...

Ok I am out. Your entitled to your opinions, wrong as they may be.


Your logic is as circular and flawed as the catalysts is. Not my problem you cannot see it.

That shows a lot of deniance in your part. Leaving the argument by not respond to what I wrote, saying my logic is stupid, and then leaving.

He leaving the arguement because basing agenst something that's dence has no benifits.

But let me help you understand your fault...Where has it been stated that races tried to directly control the reapers? And don't say the protheans, they didn't even get the crucible out, they were arguing over it.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

dreman9999 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Seival wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Why do you believe the catalyst?

The original Catalyst could left Shepard to die near the Anderson. But instead it helped her, and admitted its own mistakes. It has no reasons to lie.

Who said the catalyst brought him up, better yet, who says It wasn't the Catalyst programming who forced him to bring him up.

Who says that the catalyst is not trying to trick you, and all options destroy the crucible?

The catalyst himself and the endings.
Point to where it was proven he was lieing.

I don't have to prove anything, he's my enemy and my mindsent and first thought is that he's trying to destroy me. Your the one who has to provide evidence as to why you think your enemy wants to help you, and why would believe him.

Modifié par Khajiit Jzargo, 04 août 2012 - 05:43 .

[Khajiit Jzargo]

dreman9999 wrote...


Give me a source stating they tried it before...then you can say it.

What do you want a source to?

Modifié par Khajiit Jzargo, 04 août 2012 - 05:43 .

[dreman9999]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Seival wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Why do you believe the catalyst?

The original Catalyst could left Shepard to die near the Anderson. But instead it helped her, and admitted its own mistakes. It has no reasons to lie.

Who said the catalyst brought him up, better yet, who says It wasn't the Catalyst programming who forced him to bring him up.

Who says that the catalyst is not trying to trick you, and all options destroy the crucible?

The catalyst himself and the endings.
Point to where it was proven he was lieing.

I don't have to proof anything, he's my enemy and my mindsent and first thought is that he's trying to destroy me. Your the one who has to provide evidence as to why you think your enemy wants to help you, and why would believe him.

The evidence is the endings proving he was right in every statement he made. What had he said turned out to be a lie?