253 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...


Give me a source stating they tried it before...then you can say it.

What do you want a source to?

The people tried to control the reapers before and failed.

[Leozilla]

I didn't one bit, I did fall for synthesis, because I tried so hard to save the Geth.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

dreman9999 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Isichar wrote...

Ok I am out. Your entitled to your opinions, wrong as they may be.


Your logic is as circular and flawed as the catalysts is. Not my problem you cannot see it.

That shows a lot of deniance in your part. Leaving the argument by not respond to what I wrote, saying my logic is stupid, and then leaving.

He leaving the arguement because basing agenst something that's dence has no benifits.

But let me help you understand your fault...Where has it been stated that races tried to directly control the reapers? And don't say the protheans, they didn't even get the crucible out, they were arguing over it.

The Prothean VI, Vendetta explains how the cycle of races trying to control the Reapers has repeated itself. And yes the Protheans, they were arguing because they thought it was a plausible choice, which lead to the splinter group being indoctrinated, and the downfall of the Prothean empire.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

dreman9999 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Seival wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Why do you believe the catalyst?

The original Catalyst could left Shepard to die near the Anderson. But instead it helped her, and admitted its own mistakes. It has no reasons to lie.

Who said the catalyst brought him up, better yet, who says It wasn't the Catalyst programming who forced him to bring him up.

Who says that the catalyst is not trying to trick you, and all options destroy the crucible?

The catalyst himself and the endings.
Point to where it was proven he was lieing.

I don't have to proof anything, he's my enemy and my mindsent and first thought is that he's trying to destroy me. Your the one who has to provide evidence as to why you think your enemy wants to help you, and why would believe him.

The evidence is the endings proving he was right in every statement he made. What had he said turned out to be a lie?

That's metagaming, how do you know he's telling the truth before actually choosing anything?

[AresKeith]

dreman9999 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Genetic Destiny wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Catalyst " I'm your enemy, that has been trying to kill you for multiple years, but I'm going to let you control me by grabbing those two handles and killing yourself"

Shepard: "But...there's four handles..."

1. It a shackled AI for to do it's programing.

2. It know this is it last cyccle it can do it.

3. It does not want to reap and even it sees it as a flawed salution.

4. The crucible control it, not it controls the crucible.

5. And if you being up what happens in refuse, understand this....YOu told it you will not change/rewrite/destroy it, it's now doing the only option it has left, the reaper salution. Ofcouse it will stop any thing that can stop it at this point.

the Catalyst never states its a shackled AI, and the Control option is by the Citadel but powered by the Crucible, it doesn't control anything only powers it

1. Yes, it has...


2. Thing of the catalyst and crusble like a bow and arrow. The catalyst is the bow, the crucible is the arrows/ammunition. Even in that case the crucible controls the catalyst.

1. even an unshackled AI would say that

2. did you really compare a powersource to an arrow?

[Ageless Face]

dreman9999 wrote...
Please....The moment he said that cerberus is humanity in the end of ME2 when you blow up the base should of clued you in. He  is the same concept in ME3. He think he is up lifting humanity, he thinks he is key to that. That has not change since ME2. He is the same but going to the extremes.

Right, CERBERUS is part of humanity. In ME3, TIM seemed to center more on himself. He might be the same concept, but it's not the same execution.

[Genetic Destiny]

dreman9999 wrote...

What had he said turned out to be a lie?

..."They're too strong!"
"The Crucible will allow me to control them."

Modifié par Genetic Destiny, 04 août 2012 - 05:51 .

[Khajiit Jzargo]

dreman9999 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...


Give me a source stating they tried it before...then you can say it.

What do you want a source to?

The people tried to control the reapers before and failed.

Go to 1.23

Then go to 1:39 " Our studies of past ages led us to believe time is cyclical, many patterns repeat. The same peaks of evolution, the same valleys of disolution, the same conflicts are expressed in every cycle but in a different manner. The repititon is too prevalent to be merely chance.

[Lord Goose]

No one ever tried to use Crucible, we have no idea what is actually supposed to do. Shoot Reapers down? Turn into giant Reaper-eater? No real idea.


We can only rely on Catalyst words if we intend to use it.

Indoctrinated are irrelevant to the case. Protheans actually sabotaged the Crucible, and The Illusive Man was trying to do the same thing all around the game. And he was acting strangely anyway.

Also, Shepard doesn't have to be special. Actually, probably anyone who managed to get to control panel would suffice.

[Ranger Jack Walker]

The Angry One wrote...

arial wrote...

same reason i would trust the Rachni queen
in ME1, they are both enemies asking to be trusted, you either have to
make the leap of faith or don't

Hilariously faulty comparison, and I point and laugh at anyone who brings this up.

The Rachni Queen was nobody's enemy. She had done nothing and was a total innocent.
The Catalyst on the other hand is directly responsible for everything the Reapers do.

Hilariously faulty rebuttal.

All you know of the Rachni is that they nearly wiped out all life a long time ago. You have no reason to believe that the Rachni are not lying this time when they say they are peaceful or that Queen will keep her 'promise' Doesn't matter if this particular queen was responsible for what happened back then.

[Isichar]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Isichar wrote...

Ok I am out. Your entitled to your opinions, wrong as they may be.


Your logic is as circular and flawed as the catalysts is. Not my problem you cannot see it.

That shows a lot of deniance in your part. Leaving the argument by not respond to what I wrote, saying my logic is stupid, and then leaving.

He leaving the arguement because basing agenst something that's dence has no benifits.

But let me help you understand your fault...Where has it been stated that races tried to directly control the reapers? And don't say the protheans, they didn't even get the crucible out, they were arguing over it.

The Prothean VI, Vendetta explains how the cycle of races trying to control the Reapers has repeated itself. And yes the Protheans, they were arguing because they thought it was a plausible choice, which lead to the splinter group being indoctrinated, and the downfall of the Prothean empire.

Humor me for a moment OP

Did any of those who attempted to control the reapers use the crucible to attempt so? I would prefer a simple yes or no if possible.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Lord Goose wrote...

No one ever tried to use Crucible, we have no idea what is actually supposed to do. Shoot Reapers down? Turn into giant Reaper-eater? No real idea.


We can only rely on Catalyst words if we intend to use it.

Indoctrinated are irrelevant to the case. Protheans actually sabotaged the Crucible, and The Illusive Man was trying to do the same thing all around the game. And he was acting strangely anyway.

Also, Shepard doesn't have to be special. Actually, probably anyone who managed to get to control panel would suffice.

It's the principle that anyone who has tried Control has failed.....

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Isichar wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Isichar wrote...

Ok I am out. Your entitled to your opinions, wrong as they may be.


Your logic is as circular and flawed as the catalysts is. Not my problem you cannot see it.

That shows a lot of deniance in your part. Leaving the argument by not respond to what I wrote, saying my logic is stupid, and then leaving.

He leaving the arguement because basing agenst something that's dence has no benifits.

But let me help you understand your fault...Where has it been stated that races tried to directly control the reapers? And don't say the protheans, they didn't even get the crucible out, they were arguing over it.

The Prothean VI, Vendetta explains how the cycle of races trying to control the Reapers has repeated itself. And yes the Protheans, they were arguing because they thought it was a plausible choice, which lead to the splinter group being indoctrinated, and the downfall of the Prothean empire.

Humor me for a moment OP

Did any of those who attempted to control the reapers use the crucible to attempt so? I would prefer a simple yes or no if possible.

There has countless ways that people have tried Control and failed, but not the Crucible. So, no.

[dreman9999]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Isichar wrote...

Ok I am out. Your entitled to your opinions, wrong as they may be.


Your logic is as circular and flawed as the catalysts is. Not my problem you cannot see it.

That shows a lot of deniance in your part. Leaving the argument by not respond to what I wrote, saying my logic is stupid, and then leaving.

He leaving the arguement because basing agenst something that's dence has no benifits.

But let me help you understand your fault...Where has it been stated that races tried to directly control the reapers? And don't say the protheans, they didn't even get the crucible out, they were arguing over it.

The Prothean VI, Vendetta explains how the cycle of races trying to control the Reapers has repeated itself. And yes the Protheans, they were arguing because they thought it was a plausible choice, which lead to the splinter group being indoctrinated, and the downfall of the Prothean empire.

The protheean vi stated that they argued and fought over the desistion but never was able to get the catalyst finshed because of the fighting. Sorry, that does not support your claim. The protheans didn't even get a chance to try to control the reapers.

[dreman9999]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Isichar wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Isichar wrote...

Ok I am out. Your entitled to your opinions, wrong as they may be.


Your logic is as circular and flawed as the catalysts is. Not my problem you cannot see it.

That shows a lot of deniance in your part. Leaving the argument by not respond to what I wrote, saying my logic is stupid, and then leaving.

He leaving the arguement because basing agenst something that's dence has no benifits.

But let me help you understand your fault...Where has it been stated that races tried to directly control the reapers? And don't say the protheans, they didn't even get the crucible out, they were arguing over it.

The Prothean VI, Vendetta explains how the cycle of races trying to control the Reapers has repeated itself. And yes the Protheans, they were arguing because they thought it was a plausible choice, which lead to the splinter group being indoctrinated, and the downfall of the Prothean empire.

Humor me for a moment OP

Did any of those who attempted to control the reapers use the crucible to attempt so? I would prefer a simple yes or no if possible.

There has countless ways that people have tried Control and failed, but not the Crucible. So, no.

Like what? Where are you getting this info?

[dreman9999]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...


Give me a source stating they tried it before...then you can say it.

What do you want a source to?

The people tried to control the reapers before and failed.

Go to 1.23

Then go to 1:39 " Our studies of past ages led us to believe time is cyclical, many patterns repeat. The same peaks of evolution, the same valleys of disolution, the same conflicts are expressed in every cycle but in a different manner. The repititon is too prevalent to be merely chance.

That means the conflict stop them from even trying to control the reapers,. They thought they could but never got the chance to even attempt to do it because they were fighting one another.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

dreman9999 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Isichar wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Isichar wrote...

Ok I am out. Your entitled to your opinions, wrong as they may be.


Your logic is as circular and flawed as the catalysts is. Not my problem you cannot see it.

That shows a lot of deniance in your part. Leaving the argument by not respond to what I wrote, saying my logic is stupid, and then leaving.

He leaving the arguement because basing agenst something that's dence has no benifits.

But let me help you understand your fault...Where has it been stated that races tried to directly control the reapers? And don't say the protheans, they didn't even get the crucible out, they were arguing over it.

The Prothean VI, Vendetta explains how the cycle of races trying to control the Reapers has repeated itself. And yes the Protheans, they were arguing because they thought it was a plausible choice, which lead to the splinter group being indoctrinated, and the downfall of the Prothean empire.

Humor me for a moment OP

Did any of those who attempted to control the reapers use the crucible to attempt so? I would prefer a simple yes or no if possible.

There has countless ways that people have tried Control and failed, but not the Crucible. So, no.

Like what? Where are you getting this info?

Never mind, misread question. So what do you think? everyone is trying the same thing and failing?

Modifié par Khajiit Jzargo, 04 août 2012 - 06:02 .

[Khajiit Jzargo]

dreman9999 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Isichar wrote...

Ok I am out. Your entitled to your opinions, wrong as they may be.


Your logic is as circular and flawed as the catalysts is. Not my problem you cannot see it.

That shows a lot of deniance in your part. Leaving the argument by not respond to what I wrote, saying my logic is stupid, and then leaving.

He leaving the arguement because basing agenst something that's dence has no benifits.

But let me help you understand your fault...Where has it been stated that races tried to directly control the reapers? And don't say the protheans, they didn't even get the crucible out, they were arguing over it.

The Prothean VI, Vendetta explains how the cycle of races trying to control the Reapers has repeated itself. And yes the Protheans, they were arguing because they thought it was a plausible choice, which lead to the splinter group being indoctrinated, and the downfall of the Prothean empire.

The protheean vi stated that they argued and fought over the desistion but never was able to get the catalyst finshed because of the fighting. Sorry, that does not support your claim. The protheans didn't even get a chance to try to control the reapers.

It's shows how because of people wanting Control, the crucible wasn't deployed and failed, also shows how the Protheans became indoctrinated because of their lust for power.

[Bill Casey]

The Illusive Man is controlled by the Reapers...
The Illusive Man can make Shepard do things against his will...

[HopHazzard]

There's no real reason to believe the catalyst is trustworthy at all. It's not just control. There's no reason to believe any of the solutions will work the way the catalyst says they will. The only way I can make a choice at all is to meta-game. I know it will work because it's a game and this is the end.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

dreman9999 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...


Give me a source stating they tried it before...then you can say it.

What do you want a source to?

The people tried to control the reapers before and failed.

Go to 1.23

Then go to 1:39 " Our studies of past ages led us to believe time is cyclical, many patterns repeat. The same peaks of evolution, the same valleys of disolution, the same conflicts are expressed in every cycle but in a different manner. The repititon is too prevalent to be merely chance.

That means the conflict stop them from even trying to control the reapers,. They thought they could but never got the chance to even attempt to do it because they were fighting one another.

No he's talking about cycles that repeat every time.

The peak of a cycle, the same ways they start falling by Reapers, the same a cycle wants control, etc.

[Lord Goose]

The Angry One wrote...
Here lies the flaw in your plan. If anything goes wrong it will
screw the entire galaxy over.
What's worse is that Shepard says exactly this to TIM a little
earlier.

Shepard may actually try to convince TIM what he is indoctrinated, not objecting against idea of controlling the Reapers.

-Are you willing to bet humanity's existence on it?
-I know... It... Will... Work. The Crucible will allow me to control them... I know it can! I'm just...
-You can't, can you? They won't let you do it.

TIM is obviously indoctrinated at that moment, so Shepard may be trying to convince him that he is no longer in control of himself. What's could explay Shepard is talking about humanity, not the whole galaxy. It is also evident by ''they won't let you do it'' (instead of, say, ''that is impossible'' or ''where is no way that anyone could do that'').

[Genetic Destiny]

Ranger Jack Walker wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

arial wrote...

same reason i would trust the Rachni queen
in ME1, they are both enemies asking to be trusted, you either have to
make the leap of faith or don't

Hilariously faulty comparison, and I point and laugh at anyone who brings this up.

The Rachni Queen was nobody's enemy. She had done nothing and was a total innocent.
The Catalyst on the other hand is directly responsible for everything the Reapers do.

Hilariously faulty rebuttal.

All you know of the Rachni is that they nearly wiped out all life a long time ago. You have no reason to believe that the Rachni are not lying this time when they say they are peaceful or that Queen will keep her 'promise' Doesn't matter if this particular queen was responsible for what happened back then.

But the reapers forced the queens to do that long ago. There's also evidence in the mission that points to young rachni being unstable if not raised properly, then confirmed by the queen.

The Catalyst is the mastermind behind every reaper-related event in existence.
The Rachni queen is not responsible for what her ancestors (or parents) did before she was hatched. The Rachni queen is not the reason her children became unstable and attacked everything in sight. Comparing the 2 characters is a stretch.

Modifié par Genetic Destiny, 04 août 2012 - 06:13 .

[Bill Casey]

HopHazzard wrote...

I know it will work

lol

[Applepie_Svk]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
That's metagaming, how do you know he's telling the truth before actually choosing anything?

The question is how do you know he was speaking truth even after what Shepard picked up Synthesis or Control?
Stargazer scene said that some of the details have been lost and oldman and child act like the spacetraveling should be something imposible, with surviving Reapers after long time galaxy should be prospering place full of shines and love but what Stargazer saying simply ignoring the Reapers as profit to civilizations.

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 04 août 2012 - 06:07 .