253 réponses à ce sujet

[SpamBot2000]

I keep reading these things, and nobody ever comes up with any good reason to trust that thing.

As for the Rachni Queen, you can choose to believe her or not. You can't choose not to believe Space Ghost. You will believe or Game Over. I'm not playing.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
That's metagaming, how do you know he's telling the truth before actually choosing anything?

The question is how do you know he was speaking truth even after what Shepard picked up Synthesis or Control?
Stargazer scene said that some of the details has been lost and oldman and child act like the spacetraveling should be something imposible, with surviving Reapers after long time galaxy should be prospering place full of shines and love but what Stargazer saying simply ignoring the Reapers as profit to civilizations.

I don't, but he tries to say that he metagamed and it was true, so believing the Catalyst was the right choice. But I'm talking about before you knqw the whether he's telling the truth or not, without meta-gaming.

[The Twilight God]

AresKeith wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

All the others you said were indoctrinated, Shepard isn't, therefore he can control the Reapers

..because the reapers said so.

Oooo-kay

The Reaper King who retconned the Reapers into stupid puppets

If you choose to believe what he says. I don't and I have plenty of reason to doubt his sincerity.

http://social.biowar...9372/1#13419499

[xsdob]

And they never failed at controlling the reapers becasue they never got the chance to, they were all indoctrinated before the option was given. The prospect of control was real, but was never allowed to be in their grasp, that way they would forever be striving to control them and never succeed, this goal would also make controlling and indoctrinating them easier.

That is not the same scenario that shepard has, he is not indoctrinated, sorry IT fans but that's my interpretation, he is someone who has what they didn't, the ability to control the reapers right there in front of him. It's not some far off goal that will take years of work and give the reapers the oppurtunity to indoctrinate him, it is right there with all strings presented. The catalyst also opposes the idea, saying he does not want to be replaced by you but will have no choice, making the prospect of him lying and indoctrinating you even more unlikely.

In truth, shepard seems like one of the only people who can do it. Despite angryone's dismissal of this shepard really is special, bordering on a mary sue. He is a man who survived being exposed to numerous objects said to be able to tear minds apart, as stated by liara. He killed a capital ship reaper in one on one combat, united twelve people who would have killed each other, helped them all overcome their past, and made them the most coordinated strike team we've ever seen. He has done more impossible things than I can even count, the list being a reason enough for me to believe that shepard can control the reapers without corruption, unless shepard was a renegade in which case he actually does according to the dialogue change.

[Ericus]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

I keep reading these things, and nobody ever comes up with any good reason to trust that thing.

It's not really a matter of trust, at least it wasn't for me.  Shepard, the Alliance and their allies have put everything on the line in the hopes that the Crucible will work.  Now, severely wounded and probably not thinking entirely straight, Shepard finds himself facing several barely comprehensible choices.  Knowing that the allied fleet won't last long against the Reapers (and I firmly believe conventional victory is not possible), Shepard has to do something.  For my Shepard, the chance to save all of the species - including the Geth - made the risk of Control the only viable choice.  He wouldn't be able to choose Synthesis since he can't knowingly make that choice for every living being.

Modifié par Ericus, 04 août 2012 - 06:15 .

[Genetic Destiny]

Genetic Destiny wrote...

Ranger Jack Walker wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

arial wrote...

same reason i would trust the Rachni queen
in ME1, they are both enemies asking to be trusted, you either have to
make the leap of faith or don't

Hilariously faulty comparison, and I point and laugh at anyone who brings this up.

The Rachni Queen was nobody's enemy. She had done nothing and was a total innocent.
The Catalyst on the other hand is directly responsible for everything the Reapers do.

Hilariously faulty rebuttal.

All you know of the Rachni is that they nearly wiped out all life a long time ago. You have no reason to believe that the Rachni are not lying this time when they say they are peaceful or that Queen will keep her 'promise' Doesn't matter if this particular queen was responsible for what happened back then.

But the reapers forced the queens to do that long ago. There's also evidence in the mission that points to young rachni being unstable if not raised properly, then confirmed by the queen.

Continued:

The Catalyst is the mastermind behind every reaper-related event in existence.
The Rachni queen is not responsible for what her ancestors (or parents) did before she was hatched. The Rachni queen is not the reason her children became unstable and attacked everything in sight. Comparing the 2 characters is a stretch.

Modifié par Genetic Destiny, 04 août 2012 - 06:15 .

[AresKeith]

The Twilight God wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

All the others you said were indoctrinated, Shepard isn't, therefore he can control the Reapers

..because the reapers said so.

Oooo-kay

The Reaper King who retconned the Reapers into stupid puppets

If you choose to believe what he says. I don't and I have plenty of reason to doubt his sincerity.

http://social.biowar...9372/1#13419499

as soon as I saw him, I said "nope, don't talk to me" lol

[shodiswe]

Anyone is better as a replacement for the Catalyst than the Catalyst is... pretty much anyway...

Also as a choice it doesn't seem any more stupid than shooting an explosive conduit that will likely blow up in your face, how do you know it will kill all the reapers? or a single reaper? Maybe the Catalyst was just trying to get you killed? or jumping to your death in that beam?

All choices requiers a small leap of faith and a ****load of desperation.... Really... people are quite desperate at that point.

Modifié par shodiswe, 04 août 2012 - 06:19 .

[Isichar]

People tried to destroy the reapers, people failed
People tried to control the reaper, people failed

Neither used the crucible, which is why the crucible was a viable option.

Simple logic. your personal beliefs do not change this fact.

Want proof your wrong?

Type "control ending" into youtube and watch just how wrong your opinions on the subject are.

[Lord Goose]

It's the principle that anyone who has tried Control has failed.....

Well, anyone who tried to resist the Reapers also failed. Arthenn, Inusannon, Protheans... As Sovereign puts it "The pattern has repeated itself more times than you can fathom". Also, it's not like they failed because the solution they found did not worked out. They were doomed to failure because they were indoctrinated.

[Applepie_Svk]

The Twilight God wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

All the others you said were indoctrinated, Shepard isn't, therefore he can control the Reapers

..because the reapers said so.

Oooo-kay

The Reaper King who retconned the Reapers into stupid puppets

If you choose to believe what he says. I don't and I have plenty of reason to doubt his sincerity.

http://social.biowar...9372/1#13419499

So the Illusive man was right... Yes but he cannot control us, we already controled him...

Confidence:
The control is the means to survival...because I need you to believe...This is the way humanity must evolve...Look at the power...I took what I wanted from them, made it my own...

Shepard and Anderson controled by Illusive man´s new magic powers... 

The precise mechanics of the indoctrination effect are poorly understood. It is believed that the Reapers generate an electromagnetic field, waves of infrasound and ultrasound, or both in order to stimulate areas of a victim's brain and limbic system. 

Hesitation:
I I will.. I know it will work... No I am in control...I know it can I just... I can´t do that comander...That´s not true...I just need to...

Acceptance
THEY ARE TOO STRONG!  

[Genetic Destiny]

Lord Goose wrote...

It's the principle that anyone who has tried Control has failed.....

Well, anyone who tried to resist the Reapers also failed. Arthenn, Inusannon, Protheans... As Sovereign puts it "The pattern has repeated itself more times than you can fathom". Also, it's not like they failed because the solution they found did not worked out. They were doomed to failure because they were indoctrinated.

I somewhat agree, but tbh we've destroyed many more reapers than we've controlled. Sovereign, "Baby", and 3 Destroyers. Killing them was a miracle, and based on past experiences dominating them seems impossible.

Modifié par Genetic Destiny, 04 août 2012 - 06:28 .

[Lord Goose]

Killing them was a miracle, and based on past experiences dominating them seems impossible.

Catalyst controls all Reapers. They are his solution to the "chaos problem". It all comes down to should we believe the guy, or not.

Modifié par Lord Goose, 04 août 2012 - 06:33 .

[dreman9999]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Isichar wrote...

Ok I am out. Your entitled to your opinions, wrong as they may be.


Your logic is as circular and flawed as the catalysts is. Not my problem you cannot see it.

That shows a lot of deniance in your part. Leaving the argument by not respond to what I wrote, saying my logic is stupid, and then leaving.

He leaving the arguement because basing agenst something that's dence has no benifits.

But let me help you understand your fault...Where has it been stated that races tried to directly control the reapers? And don't say the protheans, they didn't even get the crucible out, they were arguing over it.

The Prothean VI, Vendetta explains how the cycle of races trying to control the Reapers has repeated itself. And yes the Protheans, they were arguing because they thought it was a plausible choice, which lead to the splinter group being indoctrinated, and the downfall of the Prothean empire.

The protheean vi stated that they argued and fought over the desistion but never was able to get the catalyst finshed because of the fighting. Sorry, that does not support your claim. The protheans didn't even get a chance to try to control the reapers.

It's shows how because of people wanting Control, the crucible wasn't deployed and failed, also shows how the Protheans became indoctrinated because of their lust for power.

Wanting to control does not mean they tried. Wanting to control just means they wanted to control. If you what to have a point you have to show that they tried to control the reapers.

[The Twilight God]

Genetic Destiny wrote...

Lord Goose wrote...

It's the principle that anyone who has tried Control has failed.....

Well, anyone who tried to resist the Reapers also failed. Arthenn, Inusannon, Protheans... As Sovereign puts it "The pattern has repeated itself more times than you can fathom". Also, it's not like they failed because the solution they found did not worked out. They were doomed to failure because they were indoctrinated.

I somewhat agree, but tbh we've destroyed many more reapers than we've controlled. Sovereign, "Baby", and 3 Destroyers. Killing them was a miracle, and based on past experiences dominating them seems impossible.

People want Control to make sense when it doesn't. They want to rationalize the irrational. They like the way the ending made them feel things would turn out. It's that simple.

The fact is, there is no good reason to trust the Star Child. Period.

There is not a single person here or anywhere in the universe that can counter that statement at this time.

[The Twilight God]

Lord Goose wrote...

Killing them was a miracle, and based on past experiences dominating them seems impossible.

Catalyst controls all Reapers. They are his solution to the "chaos problem".

Or he doesn't and it was just Harbinger making stuff up. Or any other myriad of deceptive possibilities.

Modifié par The Twilight God, 04 août 2012 - 06:35 .

[Lord Goose]

The fact is, there is no good reason to trust the Star Child. Period.

There is not a single person here or anywhere in the universe that can counter that statement at this time.

I agree, what where is no reason to believe him at all. But beggars cannot be choosers and my Shepard really wanted to do something to save everyone.

Modifié par Lord Goose, 04 août 2012 - 06:36 .

[dreman9999]

The only real reason to trust the catalyst is because what the crucible does is based in your ems. IT THE CATALYST WAS IN CONTROL, IT WOULD JUST FORCE SYNTHESIS.

[RiouHotaru]

What TIM proved was that it was possible to take control AWAY from the Reapers, something which up until that point wasn't supposed to be possible or even considered an option.

However, TIM's obsession with human domination lead to him implanting himself with Reaper Tech and his indoctrination, which disqualifies him. The Catalyst gives the exact reason why TIM can't use the Crucible:

"He could not control us, because we already controlled him."

[dreman9999]

The Twilight God wrote...

Genetic Destiny wrote...

Lord Goose wrote...

It's the principle that anyone who has tried Control has failed.....

Well, anyone who tried to resist the Reapers also failed. Arthenn, Inusannon, Protheans... As Sovereign puts it "The pattern has repeated itself more times than you can fathom". Also, it's not like they failed because the solution they found did not worked out. They were doomed to failure because they were indoctrinated.

I somewhat agree, but tbh we've destroyed many more reapers than we've controlled. Sovereign, "Baby", and 3 Destroyers. Killing them was a miracle, and based on past experiences dominating them seems impossible.

People want Control to make sense when it doesn't. They want to rationalize the irrational. They like the way the ending made them feel things would turn out. It's that simple.

The fact is, there is no good reason to trust the Star Child. Period.

There is not a single person here or anywhere in the universe that can counter that statement at this time.

it make sense. It allow for the problem to be solved via caliberation instead of a comprimise.

[dreman9999]

RiouHotaru wrote...

What TIM proved was that it was possible to take control AWAY from the Reapers, something which up until that point wasn't supposed to be possible or even considered an option.

However, TIM's obsession with human domination lead to him implanting himself with Reaper Tech and his indoctrination, which disqualifies him. The Catalyst gives the exact reason why TIM can't use the Crucible:

"He could not control us, because we already controlled him."

Thank you. Some one understands.

Modifié par dreman9999, 04 août 2012 - 06:45 .

[The Twilight God]

Lord Goose wrote...

The fact is, there is no good reason to trust the Star Child. Period.

There is not a single person here or anywhere in the universe that can counter that statement at this time.

I agree, what where is no reason to believe him at all. But beggars cannot be choosers and my Shepard really wanted to do something to save everyone.

So you think the Reapers gave you two sunshine and butterflies endings and made only one a tough choice requiring sacrifice? This doesn't strike you as odd?

[AresKeith]

dreman9999 wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

What TIM proved was that it was possible to take control AWAY from the Reapers, something which up until that point wasn't supposed to be possible or even considered an option.

However, TIM's obsession with human domination lead to him implanting himself with Reaper Tech and his indoctrination, which disqualifies him. The Catalyst gives the exact reason why TIM can't use the Crucible:

"He could not control us, because we already controlled him."

Thank you. Some one understands.

and having a Shepard AI acting like the new Catalyst who can start killing again as soon as something goes down is a good thing?

[The Twilight God]

dreman9999 wrote...

The only real reason to trust the catalyst is because what the crucible does is based in your ems. IT THE CATALYST WAS IN CONTROL, IT WOULD JUST FORCE SYNTHESIS.

It can't force you to jump in that beam. It can't keep Shepard from figuring out that it little device is keeping the Crucible from arming and it can't make Shepard hold on to those electrical leads. It never had any power other than indoctrination. It's not even the Catalyst. It lies to you from beginning to end.

[dreman9999]

The Twilight God wrote...

Lord Goose wrote...

The fact is, there is no good reason to trust the Star Child. Period.

There is not a single person here or anywhere in the universe that can counter that statement at this time.

I agree, what where is no reason to believe him at all. But beggars cannot be choosers and my Shepard really wanted to do something to save everyone.

So you think the Reapers gave you two sunshine and butterflies endings and made only one a tough choice requiring sacrifice? This doesn't strike you as odd?

You missing the fact that they are shackled AI's who have no choice but to do what they are doing because of their programing...The have a reason to help you...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XNyvUblf28&feature=player_detailpage#t=556s

Take some time to understand there goals...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XNyvUblf28&feature=player_detailpage#t=136s