97 réponses à ce sujet

[JoltDealer]

I think specializations being tied to the story would work best if we had a mentor system. Various NPC's that show up in the story in various missions and you have the option of doing their own unique questline. Earn their trust or the privilege to be their student, then begin learning from them. Maybe receive a set of unique specialized armor for your new class as well? It'd be great to come back and upgrade or learn new skills too.

[Thibax]

And please, no more "1 talent/spell per level system".
More freedom. If you want more, you need to pay it, you need to train it.
And more specializations!

[Auintus]

Crimson Sound wrote...

I think specializations being tied to the story would work best if we had a mentor system. Various NPC's that show up in the story in various missions and you have the option of doing their own unique questline. Earn their trust or the privilege to be their student, then begin learning from them. Maybe receive a set of unique specialized armor for your new class as well? It'd be great to come back and upgrade or learn new skills too.

I like to think that you'd join the spec similar to how it was done on Origins, for the quest specs anyway. For Reaver, you actually joined a dragon cult. You didn't do much and they need to expand on that, but it was a start. Compare that to a blood mage, which you join no group and have no mentor, but learn the skills from demons and experimentation.
Most specs have a collective order that could be joined, but each is unique.

[JoltDealer]

It should be more like Origins, but expanded. I think specialization should be learned from mentors, but you can return to learn new skills which you can upgrade by leveling up. This way, you don't have to sacrifice core class skills just to be a proper specialized class.

[Auintus]

Given that specs will be integrated, companions will likely have one already, but how will they react to yours? Could you convince a templar that you are a good blood mage?

[Giltspur]

Mages

Blood Mage: People might react with fear if you display your blood magic.  Further you might be able to physically manipulate people with blood control in conversation or quests.  Side quests could involve nightmare sequences in which you determine if the demon is under your spell or if you're under his.  This could be an evolution of the nightmare and loss of control elements in Baldur's Gate II.

Keeper: This could be the scholarly elf mage that does research into the past, particularly Arlathan and Tevinter.  The Dalish would be a natural place to get such knowledge.  Possibly Morrigan would have learned some of the old secrets and would be willing to offer you some (but not all) of her knowledge if you have something to offer in exchange.  Extra conversation options could be tied to ones intellect and knowledge of the past.  Quests could explore the lore of ancient mages.  Spells might involve nature.

Arcane Warrior: Lightly armored with magical shields appropriate to the situation, the close-range magic of a battlemage and a mastery of swords, the redesigned arcane warrior could be the kensai/mage of Thedas.  You could improve your skills by uncovering the lost history of the arcane warriors.

Rogues

Assassin: Combines skills of a shadow and an assassin--basically a ninja.    You attack from the shadows with devastating and debilitating effects.  Maybe you use poisons or even explosives.  Quests would be the sort of things you associate with a thieves guild, spying, espionage, stealing, eliminating targets.  These connections could help if you're the sort of inquisitor that relies that spies on your enemies and friends.

Swashbuckler: A pirate.  A smuggler.  Han Solo.  Unlike assassins, swashbucklers take an enemy head-on and have the defensive and parrying skills to survive it.  And of course extra cussing in conversation options and shady, possibly unsubtle characters that you can call on.

Bard: You know who needs to be flattered, who needs to be intimidated and who wants to feel like you're being straight with them.  And you know how to make someone fall in love, be it with a song, a kiss or something more.  You always know how to perform so that people will open up to you and give you whatever you want.  Persuasion and the ability to read people are the keys to your ability to infiltrate and control.

I can imagine Ranger would be a good spec as well as they could have summonables in combat and some extra options regarding survival skills and outdoor reconnaissance.

I have fewer ideas about what to do with warriors.   Templars could be interesting in terms of reactions.  Other templars might wonder if you're really one of them while mages might have a hard time trusting you.  On the other hand, you might have extra intimidate options on mages.  Reavers could present an opportunity to learn more about dragon cults and what sorts of changes such blood rituals can have.

Specs like Guardian that have no real story flavor should just become talent trees for the appropriate class instead of actual specs.

Modifié par Giltspur, 21 août 2012 - 04:05 .

[Reznik23]

I'd like to see Arcane Warrior return with a much more dynamic style, and abilities directly affecting melee abilities.
Or the excellent melee Blood Mages from Dawn of the Seeker!

[obZen DF]

Legionaire Scout. Immune to everything for the win.

[Auintus]

@Giltspur Thank you, that is exactly what I was looking for.
Swashbuckler would be similar to Duelist, right? I can't see them getting rid of duelist.
I've never played Baldur's Gate games, could you fill me in on the nightmare elements?
While I agree with making story-less specs into basic trees, I disagree for Guardian. I think by combining Guardian and Champion, one could create a commander-like spec based around supporting the party.

All and all good ideas though. Some of the best and most complete that I've seen.

[Auintus]

Blood mages need to be able to deal with demons, but similar to the way the pride demon manipulated Merril. It is compliant and helps you, but gradually worms its way into your mind to try and take control.

[Parmida]

I love to show off with my bloodmagic in the conversations and make everyone upset that my bloodmage is a very powerful mage that even the demons bend him their knees and they can't control him cause he's a badass.
They will learn that they can't mess with him.
Bloodmage should be able to consort with demons, summon them to fight for him and command them to do his bidding.
IMO the powers that are given to you in DA:O and DA2 are very limited, there should be many more spells, blood magic is The most powerful magic afterall and I'm sure one can have a lot of fun with it.
The conversations with people should show it that you're a blood mage like when you talk to people or your companions you should see sth that shows they know you're a blood mage by approving, disapproving, indifferent , freaking out, admiring your power ...etc.
And there should be bloodmage options in conversations like those sarcastic, diplomatic or aggressive options you could pick to get what you want like that sarcastic option you pick to convince the templars that the mages are dead and he should go catch their leader.
It'd be so nice to be able to pick your specialization at the start of the game, I like to be a bloodmage from the start, maybe unlocking them in the next playthrough by gathering somekind of points in your current playthrough?
And...Bloodmages are sexy as hell.

Modifié par Parmida, 25 août 2012 - 11:04 .

[cindercatz]

I'm thinking, since we've got the six origins from Origins, we should also have six story specializations, along with six new origins from at least human and elf, preferably human, elf, and dwarf again, so that you get a unique starting origin story, and then a unique ongoing side story, along with conversation checks and perhaps a different ending for your character's story depending on which spec you chose and which path you chose within that spec. Then each of your party members also has their own spec that is not available to the player as a spec option, and their own spec sidestory along with their other ongoing subplots and sidequests. That way we can get a completely new player character each time (at least through six plays, twelve if you count opposite paths within each spec, 24 if you count the variables that change with gender), and we still get to see the other specs we don't play as in action. Restrict each race to certain specs again, allowing, like in Origins again, for mages to be either elvhen or human.

So my six PC specs? ...

Mages:
Apostate, elf or human. Combines blood magic, spirit magic (including necromantic), some shapeshifting for close range combat, and keeper abilities. I like the wild mage meets demon story. Will you become a maleficar or tame the wild spirits of your upbringing? Obviously you'll have had to find yourself in the Chantry during the origin story and done something to slyly move up the career ladder. But you remember where you came from, and you still conspire with spirits.

Battlemage, human. Chantry mage combining force mage and battlemage, with some healing, lends itself to a hybrid Arcane Warriorish melee mage build also, so flexible. Maybe even include some Champion spec ability. You're the Chantry's perfect exemplar of what a Mage can be in the eyes of the Maker. Do you fully allign yourself to the Chantry that raised and promoted you? Or do you seek freedom? You're a cabable magic warrior, an inspiring leader from the front.

Rogues:
Spymaster, human, elf, dwarf: Assassin, Duelist, and Shadow abilities. This was my combo set for my favorite Rogue in DA:O (city elf, though), basically a character built to kill with extreme efficiency and walk in and out of any situation unscathed, whether striking from the shadows or cutting enemies down face on, you're an adaptive, practical killer. With a bloody past and an untarnished record in the name of the Chantry of Orlais, you've stolen the keys to the kingdom (so to speak). What will you do with them?

Master Bard, human, elf, dwarf: Ranger, Assassin, and Bard abilities. You sing the songs of your people for the entertainment of nobles, but behind the scenes you've mastered the arts of subterfuge, misdirection, and guile. And you've made another name for yourself, one the Chantry has taken notice of. I'd like to see a new Black Fox in the game either as playable or as a companion character. Maybe that's your character's side story. The spec allows for a different set of pet animals depending on your race, actual singing for buffs, stuns, and charms with songs again dependent on race, and various charm and social options in the more political situations in the game, more than any other class. If there are scenes in the game where characters sing as in Leliana's song cutscene, then your character will join in a bit.

Warriors:
Templar General, human: Templar, Guardian, and Champion. Your character has worked his/her way up to the pinnacle of the order, and must now grapple with the power and temptation in all directions that your postion brings. Will you live up to your professed highest ideals? Or will you attempt to dominate your foes and oppress all resistance? Just how strong is your faith and loyalty to the church you've served when it really comes down to the blood and tears of it?

Arcane Chevalier, human: Berserker, Spirit Warrior, Reaver abilities. You're an Orlesian noble who has shown great talent in his/her studies, in the royal courts and ballrooms of Thedas, and on the battlefield. You can do no wrong. But you have a secret. Spirits come to you in your dreams, but you're no mage. You hear whispers roar on the edge of your consciousness, but you don't know why. There are dark rumors about your family and your fortune. When the full force of it all comes to light, how will you respond? Who will you be when your time comes?

So, something new. I know there are only human options for warriors, but there are two very different and effective options for dwarves as rogues and elves as rogues and mages. I just think if we're playing Orlesian, you have to have the option to play Templar and Chevalier, and I don't see that either of them allows for non-humans. I'd offset this by giving both dwarves and elves unique racial class abilities. This could also save some budget on dialogue for all the possibilities as an upside, while still allowing us to play as all the races with racial origin pieces that tie to your chosen spec.

I'd also like for the makeup of your party to include a number of the previous specs with expanded skill trees and their own stories, so an actual Reaver story tying to Flemeth, perhaps, or Morrigan's baby, a swashbuckler type character, maybe even get a few returning characters. I've been hoping for Leliana, maybe Isabella, the green sword kid from Redcliff all grown up and ready to war. I've also been hoping for maybe Velanna and the dwarf scout girl (drawing a blank right now, love her much, always trip on her name though) from DA:A.

[coldSnap]

Giltspur wrote...

Mages

Blood Mage: People might react with fear if you display your blood magic.  Further you might be able to physically manipulate people with blood control in conversation or quests.  Side quests could involve nightmare sequences in which you determine if the demon is under your spell or if you're under his.  This could be an evolution of the nightmare and loss of control elements in Baldur's Gate II.

Keeper: This could be the scholarly elf mage that does research into the past, particularly Arlathan and Tevinter.  The Dalish would be a natural place to get such knowledge.  Possibly Morrigan would have learned some of the old secrets and would be willing to offer you some (but not all) of her knowledge if you have something to offer in exchange.  Extra conversation options could be tied to ones intellect and knowledge of the past.  Quests could explore the lore of ancient mages.  Spells might involve nature.

Arcane Warrior: Lightly armored with magical shields appropriate to the situation, the close-range magic of a battlemage and a mastery of swords, the redesigned arcane warrior could be the kensai/mage of Thedas.  You could improve your skills by uncovering the lost history of the arcane warriors.

Rogues

Assassin: Combines skills of a shadow and an assassin--basically a ninja.    You attack from the shadows with devastating and debilitating effects.  Maybe you use poisons or even explosives.  Quests would be the sort of things you associate with a thieves guild, spying, espionage, stealing, eliminating targets.  These connections could help if you're the sort of inquisitor that relies that spies on your enemies and friends.

Swashbuckler: A pirate.  A smuggler.  Han Solo.  Unlike assassins, swashbucklers take an enemy head-on and have the defensive and parrying skills to survive it.  And of course extra cussing in conversation options and shady, possibly unsubtle characters that you can call on.

Bard: You know who needs to be flattered, who needs to be intimidated and who wants to feel like you're being straight with them.  And you know how to make someone fall in love, be it with a song, a kiss or something more.  You always know how to perform so that people will open up to you and give you whatever you want.  Persuasion and the ability to read people are the keys to your ability to infiltrate and control.

I can imagine Ranger would be a good spec as well as they could have summonables in combat and some extra options regarding survival skills and outdoor reconnaissance.

I have fewer ideas about what to do with warriors.   Templars could be interesting in terms of reactions.  Other templars might wonder if you're really one of them while mages might have a hard time trusting you.  On the other hand, you might have extra intimidate options on mages.  Reavers could present an opportunity to learn more about dragon cults and what sorts of changes such blood rituals can have.

Specs like Guardian that have no real story flavor should just become talent trees for the appropriate class instead of actual specs.

^
yes please

[Auintus]

cindercatz wrote...

I'm thinking, since we've got the six origins from Origins, we should also have six story specializations, along with six new origins from at least human and elf, preferably human, elf, and dwarf again, so that you get a unique starting origin story, and then a unique ongoing side story, along with conversation checks and perhaps a different ending for your character's story depending on which spec you chose and which path you chose within that spec. Then each of your party members also has their own spec that is not available to the player as a spec option, and their own spec sidestory along with their other ongoing subplots and sidequests. That way we can get a completely new player character each time (at least through six plays, twelve if you count opposite paths within each spec, 24 if you count the variables that change with gender), and we still get to see the other specs we don't play as in action. Restrict each race to certain specs again, allowing, like in Origins again, for mages to be either elvhen or human.

So my six PC specs? ...

Mages:
Apostate, elf or human. Combines blood magic, spirit magic (including necromantic), some shapeshifting for close range combat, and keeper abilities. I like the wild mage meets demon story. Will you become a maleficar or tame the wild spirits of your upbringing? Obviously you'll have had to find yourself in the Chantry during the origin story and done something to slyly move up the career ladder. But you remember where you came from, and you still conspire with spirits.

Battlemage, human. Chantry mage combining force mage and battlemage, with some healing, lends itself to a hybrid Arcane Warriorish melee mage build also, so flexible. Maybe even include some Champion spec ability. You're the Chantry's perfect exemplar of what a Mage can be in the eyes of the Maker. Do you fully allign yourself to the Chantry that raised and promoted you? Or do you seek freedom? You're a cabable magic warrior, an inspiring leader from the front.

Rogues:
Spymaster, human, elf, dwarf: Assassin, Duelist, and Shadow abilities. This was my combo set for my favorite Rogue in DA:O (city elf, though), basically a character built to kill with extreme efficiency and walk in and out of any situation unscathed, whether striking from the shadows or cutting enemies down face on, you're an adaptive, practical killer. With a bloody past and an untarnished record in the name of the Chantry of Orlais, you've stolen the keys to the kingdom (so to speak). What will you do with them?

Master Bard, human, elf, dwarf: Ranger, Assassin, and Bard abilities. You sing the songs of your people for the entertainment of nobles, but behind the scenes you've mastered the arts of subterfuge, misdirection, and guile. And you've made another name for yourself, one the Chantry has taken notice of. I'd like to see a new Black Fox in the game either as playable or as a companion character. Maybe that's your character's side story. The spec allows for a different set of pet animals depending on your race, actual singing for buffs, stuns, and charms with songs again dependent on race, and various charm and social options in the more political situations in the game, more than any other class. If there are scenes in the game where characters sing as in Leliana's song cutscene, then your character will join in a bit.

Warriors:
Templar General, human: Templar, Guardian, and Champion. Your character has worked his/her way up to the pinnacle of the order, and must now grapple with the power and temptation in all directions that your postion brings. Will you live up to your professed highest ideals? Or will you attempt to dominate your foes and oppress all resistance? Just how strong is your faith and loyalty to the church you've served when it really comes down to the blood and tears of it?

Arcane Chevalier, human: Berserker, Spirit Warrior, Reaver abilities. You're an Orlesian noble who has shown great talent in his/her studies, in the royal courts and ballrooms of Thedas, and on the battlefield. You can do no wrong. But you have a secret. Spirits come to you in your dreams, but you're no mage. You hear whispers roar on the edge of your consciousness, but you don't know why. There are dark rumors about your family and your fortune. When the full force of it all comes to light, how will you respond? Who will you be when your time comes?

So, something new. I know there are only human options for warriors, but there are two very different and effective options for dwarves as rogues and elves as rogues and mages. I just think if we're playing Orlesian, you have to have the option to play Templar and Chevalier, and I don't see that either of them allows for non-humans. I'd offset this by giving both dwarves and elves unique racial class abilities. This could also save some budget on dialogue for all the possibilities as an upside, while still allowing us to play as all the races with racial origin pieces that tie to your chosen spec.

I'd also like for the makeup of your party to include a number of the previous specs with expanded skill trees and their own stories, so an actual Reaver story tying to Flemeth, perhaps, or Morrigan's baby, a swashbuckler type character, maybe even get a few returning characters. I've been hoping for Leliana, maybe Isabella, the green sword kid from Redcliff all grown up and ready to war. I've also been hoping for maybe Velanna and the dwarf scout girl (drawing a blank right now, love her much, always trip on her name though) from DA:A.

What? No!
I refuse to concede to those kinds of restrictions. Why make you spec tied to an origin? The goal was to make specs more special, not lump them into pre-set combinations. My blood mage has nothing to do with the elven keepers. And I hate berserkers, but enjoy reavers. That's...not...no, just no.

[wowpwnslol]

Nizaris1 wrote...

I know, but who invest in Battlemaster anyway? It is wasted. I never invest in Battlemaster

You didn't invest into battlemaster because you're a noob. Some talents were essential for a warrior, such as bolster and second wind.

[Auintus]

wowpwnslol wrote...

Nizaris1 wrote...

I know, but who invest in Battlemaster anyway? It is wasted. I never invest in Battlemaster

You didn't invest into battlemaster because you're a noob. Some talents were essential for a warrior, such as bolster and second wind.

I'm sure they had other things to spend their points on.

[cindercatz]

Auintus wrote...

What? No!
I refuse to concede to those kinds of restrictions. Why make you spec tied to an origin? The goal was to make specs more special, not lump them into pre-set combinations. My blood mage has nothing to do with the elven keepers. And I hate berserkers, but enjoy reavers. That's...not...no, just no.

Well, just trying to tie them into the story, and the larger bredth of each spec means that you could develope your character within them however you saw fit. If there are developed stories around each spec, that means we necessarily get less specs, and if they're more special, that should mean more unique and customizable, per spec, I'd think. I don't see how that's restrictive, except for the species part, but again, story.

And why would a human blood mage be tied to elven keepers? I did say each story would tie back to your race selection, so a human bloodmage story would be different than an elven bloodmage story, etc. The spec tree would just include an expanded set of options, all things that are outside of Chantry practiced magic (or that are feared in the open, like necromantic spirit magic). Just had a cool idea reading the discussion and wanted to put it out there, that's all.

[Auintus]

My response was out of line. I apologize.
Looking at your suggestion, it seems that it's suggesting narrowing each class down to two specs made up of previous specs. That is not the way to do this. Most specs have a workable backstory and should not be fused together like that.
If I misinterpreted what you said, again, I apologize. If so, could you clarify your suggestion for me?

Modifié par Auintus, 29 août 2012 - 05:41 .

[Auintus]

Assassin could have a sub-plot similar to "A Trial of Crows" while Shadow could be similar to "Crime Wave"
Has anyone else considered a anti-magic mage spec? A specialized version of the Mana drain and spell shield trees from DAO.

[DarthChicken]

I really want to see Arcane Warrior make a return, it was definitely my favorite spec in Origins (battlemage wasn't too shabby either.)

[Auintus]

@DarthChicken, I was thinking that they could just throw the battlemage skills under the arcane warrior spec, since it has a backstory, and call it a day. They complement each other pretty well.

[Auintus]

Another question then: If specs do have you, say, join a reaver cult, or an assassin's guild, should those side quests involve your allies? Or should you, perhaps, have team of cultists to help you defend your dragon, or be able to call on allies within your guild to aid in taking down a mark?

[MewtwoJosh]

I hope Force Mage makes a return

[Auintus]

MewtwoJosh wrote...

I hope Force Mage makes a return

I hope it returns as a tree and not a spec.

[Renmiri1]

Arcane warrior back please