114 réponses à ce sujet

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Time skip disconnect me from the story and kill my interest to continue.I hate being interrupted either by story's plot or by external disturbance. It's hard to stay focus once being interrupted. The only thing I'd appreciate about "3 years later" is to see how things change which is none in DA 2.

[Amycus89]

Emzamination wrote...

Amycus89 wrote...

In DA2 you are thrown in to a no-mans land that you don't care about, with a family you know nothing about, and thus don't care about, and then thrown into a city that you are never giving any reason to care about, with its inhabitants you never have any reason to care about.

I know that Da2 tried to do a more personal, emotional story compared to origins. And I actually like that idea, as opposed to everything being "epic" where the whole world is once again in peril and you are the only one to stop it. Unfortunately, as I think it is pretty clear now, it failed pretty spectacularly in these areas. 

WHat DA2 SHOULD have done: Make the game start first in "just another peaceful day" of Lothering, right before anyone ever hears about the blight. Let us learn about the town, our family and other inhabitants (and finally some basic lore of the place for first time players), so we can care about the loss later on. Then let the news about the darkspawn reach the town, and you need to go to Ostagar for the battle. Then let us see from the perspective of the common soldier there, about Loghain, the king, and the grey wardens - and finally see the chaos that breaks out when the darkspawn overrun you after Loghains betrayal. Fight for your life to get back to Lothering and the rest of your family,and see the panic spread throughout the town before the darkspawn overrun the place. THEN we are at the place where DA2 actually (unfortunately) starts. 

Then we are, after having a certain companion killed (that we actually might have a chance to care about now), thrown into a short cutscene where we are suddenly teleported to Kirkwall. Why not let us have some gameplay during this joerney, where all the refugees are packed like rats, to show the hardship Hawke and his family had to go through. Have some quests of merely finding enough water to survive, or medicine to sick passengers/companions. Make it feel like things went from bad to worse. THEN we are FINALLY in Kirkwall, and this time we know in our minds that we really, really don't want to go back through the same way we came, 

Then just about 10 min in we have, unfortunatey, ANOTHER timeskip where we suddenly have worked a whole year (well that was fast. What was the big deal, we got in and suddenly have better weapons and armor. Didn't feel much like living in servitude if you ask me...). Once again would have been an excellent opportunity to make us feel like we had hit rock bottom, and something had to change. And then we might also have actually have known all the city's inhabitants instead of suddenly having a bunch of strangers calling out to me like I had known them my whole life -not to mention that it would have been an excellent time to give some branching quest lines depending on whether you went with the smuggler or mercenary.

I could continue, but I think I have made my point. Stop with the timeskips, unless you make us sit in a prison for a year or two (but then the world outside should have also changed). It disconnects us from our characters.

What is with all this not caring? I care about ferelden, why would anyone who has played dragon age not care about ferelden?  

 
Oh, I did care about Ferelden after having played DA2. However, there were many new players as well, who never played DA:O before. My main problem with it though is that my character, Hawke, never had any reason to care (depite me having played origins). I don't know how he, the character I'm currently roleplaying as, felt about Lothering, what people he knew there or anything. We quite frankly never got any time to "develop" our own character's personality.

Emzamination wrote... 
The whole world is in peril? where'd you get that?

  
um... I repeat what you just said back at you, "the whole world is in peril"? where did you get that? I said exactly the opposite, DA2 aimed to be a more personal story (but failed at that), while other games just try to be as "epic" as possible. Which is too bad, because I usually tend to like these personal stories more, when they are done right.And I hope Bioware will try, and make a better attempt at another smaller, more personal story sometime.

Emzamination wrote...  
The "just another day" route has been done to death and is pretty generic and bland Imho.If you don't know anything about lothering or its inhabitants, you have no business picking up Da2.Why would you need to expiernce the events of ostagar as a common soldier in Da2 when we already did that in Da:O, that makes no sense, not to mention it would kill quite a bit of lore.

   
Well, thanks for stating that new players have no business picking up DA2. That just proves my point, since I'm trying to explain that this ispart of the problem (you know, usually the aim for developers is to make sure that even new players can get right into a new game). Otherwise, if you think "just another day" might have been done to death, but it is a good way to learn about your family, and get into your role when the unexpected happens (=immerse yourself in your character). And even "just another day" can be pretty entertaining. Tried playing a dwarf origin in DA:O?

And as for "Why would you need to expiernce the events of ostagar as a common soldier in Da2 when we already did that in Da:O " No, you didn't experience the events as a common soldier in DA:O, but as a Grey Warden. We never saw the battle from the point of view of a common soldier in the battlefield.

not to mention it would kill quite a bit of lore.  " How so? It is already stated in DA2 that you and your brother (unless you are a mage, as someone pointed out I missed that. Been a while since I played DA2) fought in that battle, and that you and your family then had to escape from Lothering. Rather than these characters talking about these big events that were just yesterday though, I think it would be more immersive to experience it ourselves. But don't worry, I know that it is a bit hard to remember these important events when they are just briefly mentioned without you ever actually experiencing it.

Emzamination wrote...  
The rest...no the whole of your post is made up of grotesque generalizations and simplifications just to beef up your argument.The basis of your argument is personal preferrence, projecting your feelings as if you speak for the whole and the Idea that the DA team should pander solely to your ideas because you've obviously been writing Fantasy & game content longer than Hepler & gaider, Tsk tsk

Um, you just said plainly that new players had no business to play DA2, which was one of my larger points. And the only generalisations I make are in the first few rows, the rest is just explaining timeskips that DID happen in the game, and examples of how it could have been handled. And how the heck did you get the impression that I think they should do what I have said here? They have already left DA2 for "the next big thing", and even if it was just after release ti would be a little late to change that much. I'm just stating examples as to where it was, and didn't fit in DA2, in hope that they will try to show rather than tell events in DA3. Please enlighten me how that is "
projecting your feelings as if you speak for the whole and the Idea that the DA team should pander solely to your ideas because you've obviously been writing Fantasy & game content longer than Hepler & gaider, Tsk tsk  "

Please explain in particular how I'm stating that I've been "writing Fantasy & game content longer than Hepler & gaider", because I somehow missed that it in the text.  I never once said that "this is how it is done". What I DID say is that they should avoid timeskips, and explained why it disconnects us from our characters. If I exampe have to use my memories from my warden to remember events that my Hawke should know, it pulls me of from the experience, and I remember that I'm just playing a game. And thus, once again, I don't care what happens to Hawke or the world around him, because that's him, not me.

EDIT: And for the record, I'm a lousy writer. Tried several times, but I'm unfortunately not very creative when it comes to stories.Pretty sure I have stated that before in previous comments as well. Frankly, if I didn't have faith in Bioware's storytelling, I wouldn't even be here in the first place. I do think that DA2 was the worst Bioware game ever, however.

Modifié par Amycus89, 05 août 2012 - 11:01 .

[Wulfram]

I think the timeskips might have worked better if they'd divided the game into 7 acts rather than 3, so that you played every year. Though this would have required more resources, and also might have been percieved as limiting player freedom, since you'd have had fewer quests per act and thus less choice as to the order you did things in.

But generally I think it's fair to say that as an experiment in making an RPG cover an extended period of time, DA2 didn't really work.

I wouldn't say "no time gaps ever" is a fair conclusion - sometimes the story needs there to be a bunch of travel in it, or you need to fit in a training montage or something - but time gaps should be more limited and to a clear purpose.

[esper]

I thing 'next year' time jumps would work best. I will also say that we require some sense of a passing of time. In da:o I had no sense of how long time it took traversing around the country and it frankly made it difficult to role play.
Wynne 'Its been a year since you left'
Alistar 'I know we haven't known each other for long...' (Same camp 'day')
I felt like all the differnet side stories had their own time line and it was frankly annoying, so I want some clear sense of passing of time, I don't care how they do it, but I want some.

[Get Magna Carter]

Rxdiaz wrote...

I really wonder how BioWare ever thought that was a good idea...

Lately I really don't understand their thinking at all.

I think they thought with timeskips they could show consequences of decisions more immediately than waiting from the end.
The problem with that thinking was "What consequences?" ... I did not see any requiring a time skip to show
It instead seemed to have ended up as let's skip the boring parts where Hawke get's his/her family home back or is formally declared the champion of Kirkwall (which if shown may have explained more of what the Champion of Kirkwall meant)...though 3 year gaps for this seem excessive
Not to mention the way the serial killer plot grinds to a halt and restarts 3 years later coincidently at the same time that other events are happening

[Arthur Cousland]

I agree with most of what's been posted here.

The game skips years in time, but by just looking around, I certainly couldn't tell. Many of the npcs are still standing in the same places over the decade, and there are some who have the same repeating conversations over that time. The one guy who's still waiting to see the Viscount comes to mind (someone tell him that the Viscount is dead already).

I would have also liked to have seen more of the first year. Hawke joins with Meeran or Athenril, and that's it. Everyone speaks as if Hawke was busy during that year, yet the player doesn't get to experience any of it.

If I want to be told about events that happen, I can just read a book. When I'm playing a videogame, I want to feel like I am the hero of the story and be immersed with the game world. With DA2, I never felt the same attachment with Hawke that I did the Warden, and I was never given much reason to care about what happened to Kirkwall, like I felt with Ferelden.

[Wulfram]

esper wrote...

I thing 'next year' time jumps would work best. I will also say that we require some sense of a passing of time. In da:o I had no sense of how long time it took traversing around the country and it frankly made it difficult to role play.
Wynne 'Its been a year since you left'
Alistar 'I know we haven't known each other for long...' (Same camp 'day')
I felt like all the differnet side stories had their own time line and it was frankly annoying, so I want some clear sense of passing of time, I don't care how they do it, but I want some.

I kind of disagree here.  DA:O struggled when people made concrete references to time, but was fine when they kept it ambiguous.

Having an actual clock would make it a bit too obvious how nonsensical doing the sidequests can be.

[Renmiri1]

JasonPogo wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

JasonPogo wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

nightscrawl wrote...

@ Emzamination, that's all well and good, but how did you feel about the time gaps? Did you like them, dislike them, not care either way?

I enjoyed the 3 year skips in time, especially in regard to romances, I found it enjoyable to read the '3 years later' codex entries and see how my romance moved forward in those years based on my decisions as well as how my other coeterie members were affected.Another thing I liked about the time skips from a rp perspective is it gave me reason to use the black emporium mirror to make myself look a little older each skip.I strongly believe we should have time skips in Da3.

I hated the time skip from Act 1 to Act 2.  Why did it take my Hawke that long to tell his romance option that he kinda liked them?  Seems like they spent a lot of time pissing around doing nothing.

What romance option was this?

All of them.

Oh but Anders' chronic case of blue balls after 3 years pinning for Hawke was so cute! 

[esper]

Wulfram wrote...

esper wrote...

I thing 'next year' time jumps would work best. I will also say that we require some sense of a passing of time. In da:o I had no sense of how long time it took traversing around the country and it frankly made it difficult to role play.
Wynne 'Its been a year since you left'
Alistar 'I know we haven't known each other for long...' (Same camp 'day')
I felt like all the differnet side stories had their own time line and it was frankly annoying, so I want some clear sense of passing of time, I don't care how they do it, but I want some.

I kind of disagree here.  DA:O struggled when people made concrete references to time, but was fine when they kept it ambiguous.

Having an actual clock would make it a bit too obvious how nonsensical doing the sidequests can be.

Or they could just have made the time reference at the landsmeet or when your are lodged at the Arl's house in Demerin. That happens in a certain phase of the game.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

My main problem with the time skips is that they hyped them to be 'awesome' ways to progress the story and make it feel like you are experiencing the world changing around you, only to implement them in the most simple, bland way possible.

So for 7 years in a row, interesting things only happen every 3 years, exactly? Nothing relevant changes during each of these time skips? You don't even get to play after the last time skip. The '10 years' hyped by marketing was really 2 years of game play, 8 years of absolutely nothing happening and a short 1 minute exposition by Varric at the end.

Modifié par Shinian2, 05 août 2012 - 07:21 .

[Sith Grey Warden]

Emzamination wrote...

JasonPogo wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

JasonPogo wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

nightscrawl wrote...

@ Emzamination, that's all well and good, but how did you feel about the time gaps? Did you like them, dislike them, not care either way?

I enjoyed the 3 year skips in time, especially in regard to romances, I found it enjoyable to read the '3 years later' codex entries and see how my romance moved forward in those years based on my decisions as well as how my other coeterie members were affected.Another thing I liked about the time skips from a rp perspective is it gave me reason to use the black emporium mirror to make myself look a little older each skip.I strongly believe we should have time skips in Da3.

I hated the time skip from Act 1 to Act 2.  Why did it take my Hawke that long to tell his romance option that he kinda liked them?  Seems like they spent a lot of time pissing around doing nothing.

What romance option was this?

All of them.

Everyone had different points of divergance as to why they couldn't enter a relationship right then and there.In act 1 hawke is poor and can barely feed him/herself, what time is there for a gf or bf at this point? Act 2 hawke has gotten his/her personal life in order and can now actively look for a lover without the threat of his/her family starving to death or wondering when the next bath will come, looming over their heads.It makes perfect sense to wait till act 2, realistically speaking

It doesn't take three years for Hawke to get his/her life in order. After they get back from the deep roads, they move up to Hightown. There's no difference between 1 year after Act 1 and Act 2 in those terms.

And would Hawke and Isabella really wait three years after they begin flirting before they have sex? Especially given Isabella's offer at the end of her recruitment quest?

[Sith Grey Warden]

I like the idea of starting in Lothering. You don't necessarily need the battle of Ostagar, but just a bit of time in Lothering to see what Hawke's life was like, and what they were complaining about having to leave behind. It doesn't have to be "An ordinary day," it can be that Hawke rushed back from Ostagar, and the game picks up with him trying to help get his family and friends ready to depart. We get to see the Hawke house, and through it can see what kind of life they had been living. That would be enough, and it doesn't have to take that long.

With regards to time-skips, I think the first one-year skip made a bit of sense, since Hawke's time in servitude wouldn't exactly be the most interesting part of his life. However, there could have been one or two missions there, just to show the hardship they were lamenting.

It makes no sense, though, for the Qunari to sit around doing nothing for three years. Nothing significantly changes during the time-skips before Acts II and III, and it could easily have been just a few months.

[Realmzmaster]

Starting in Lothering and not coming back from Ostagar would have been a must. Coming back from the Battle of Ostagar only works for a warrior or rogue Hawke. Mage Hawke could not be at the battle unless he was a Circle or a Grey Warden mage.

The background story would have to be different for a mage Hawke. It would have to show mage Hawke hiding from templars and keeping his/her magical talent under wraps. This would not be a problem for a rogue or warrior Hawke. In the case of a warrior or rogue Hawke it would have to show Hawke protecting and helping hide his sister from the templars. For example warrior or rogue Hawke are watching out for templars as Bethany practices her magic or Carver watching out as both mage Hawke and Bethany practice magic. Keeping one step ahead of Ser Bryant and the other templars.

The time skips do not bother me. The lack of time passage in DAO bothered me more than DA2. The warden goes from level 1 to level 20 or more in one year? Hawke's increase in level over seven years makes more sense. The codices provided enough information for me to understand what had transpired during the interval. But YMMV.

[CELL55]

It feels like three different games. The Acts just have so little to do with each other that it might as well be three different games. But because it is not three different games, the three acts all feel short AND underdeveloped.

[seraphymon]

Realmzmaster wrote...
The time skips do not bother me. The lack of time passage in DAO bothered me more than DA2. The warden goes from level 1 to level 20 or more in one year? Hawke's increase in level over seven years makes more sense. The codices provided enough information for me to understand what had transpired during the interval. But YMMV.

Of all the things to pick on wether arguing for or against the time skips, you pick a game mechanic that is totally unrelated?

Guess it may nitpick of yours i dunno. But that progression of lvls is unrelated to the story, how far someones skill in battle progresses will always vary from person to person anyways, and a year seems like enough time anyways. There reall is no sense to make here, because i think that is a bit of a unecessisary argument. As for the codices. I also think wether or not people were able to grasp what went on during those year gaps, coupled with varrics narration is irrevlant. People dont want to read about things, but rather experience them

[Amycus89]

Sith Grey Warden wrote...

I like the idea of starting in Lothering. You don't necessarily need the battle of Ostagar, but just a bit of time in Lothering to see what Hawke's life was like, and what they were complaining about having to leave behind. It doesn't have to be "An ordinary day," it can be that Hawke rushed back from Ostagar, and the game picks up with him trying to help get his family and friends ready to depart. We get to see the Hawke house, and through it can see what kind of life they had been living. That would be enough, and it doesn't have to take that long.

With regards to time-skips, I think the first one-year skip made a bit of sense, since Hawke's time in servitude wouldn't exactly be the most interesting part of his life. However, there could have been one or two missions there, just to show the hardship they were lamenting.

It makes no sense, though, for the Qunari to sit around doing nothing for three years. Nothing significantly changes during the time-skips before Acts II and III, and it could easily have been just a few months.

Well I will admit that I forgot about mage Hawke not being able to parcitipate. Another solution would be as some seems to have hinted at, to have different 2origin" stories depending on your class. Only problem would be to think of something for the rogue to do, instead of having exactly the same origin as a warrior if a mage had their own unique beginning...

I do remember that shortly before the release of DA2 I actually did assume that the 3 classes would work as their own origins stories, only giving much more consequence to this choice compared to how origins were handled in DA:O.

Now I now that they defenetily wouldn't have the time to do all this considering how rushed the game already was, but it might still be something to think about for future games.

[Emzamination]

Melca36 wrote...

Considering its already been said that they won't be having them because they  didn't go over well with the majority of players, you better get used to the fact.

People don't want to read about something...they want to see it happen and be a part of it.   Its like skipping sections of a book. It did NOT work.

Even with literature time constantly skips days,weeks and sometimes year.It is absurd to think you play every crisis of a game set to span 10 years.But Isuppose I shall have to get with the program, if the devs say no, no use in debating about it.

[Realmzmaster]

seraphymon wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...
The time skips do not bother me. The lack of time passage in DAO bothered me more than DA2. The warden goes from level 1 to level 20 or more in one year? Hawke's increase in level over seven years makes more sense. The codices provided enough information for me to understand what had transpired during the interval. But YMMV.

Of all the things to pick on wether arguing for or against the time skips, you pick a game mechanic that is totally unrelated?

Guess it may nitpick of yours i dunno. But that progression of lvls is unrelated to the story, how far someones skill in battle progresses will always vary from person to person anyways, and a year seems like enough time anyways. There reall is no sense to make here, because i think that is a bit of a unecessisary argument. As for the codices. I also think wether or not people were able to grasp what went on during those year gaps, coupled with varrics narration is irrevlant. People dont want to read about things, but rather experience them

I was talking about the passage of time. The amount of time given for DAO is one year. You cannot tell me that a person no matter how much skill progression in battle may vary from person to person is going from level 1 to level 20 in that time frame. It took  the Bhaalspawn two games plus expansions to even come close to that level.

I  am not just talking about DAO and DA2. Might and Magic had party members seek training before they could achieve the next level in their class. It did not stop the progression of the story. The character was denied the next level until training was completed by performing a quest for the trainer especially at advanced levels. This helped with the sense of time progression and achievement. Training was part of the story.

The time skips in DA2 allows for training and practice to happen. No it is not a nitpick of mine. Many on this forum have been talking about how realistic certain parts of a game should be, but have no problem glossing this over. As i have stated in other posts how real do you want your realism?

[Emzamination]

[quote]Amycus89 wrote...

Oh, I did care about Ferelden after having played DA2. However, there were many new players as well, who never played DA:O before. My main problem with it though is that my character, Hawke, never had any reason to care (depite me having played origins). I don't know how he, the character I'm currently roleplaying as, felt about Lothering, what people he knew there or anything. We quite frankly never got any time to "develop" our own character's personality. [/quote] 

Ferelden only appeared in the beginning of Da2, the rest of the game takes place in the free marches.But anywho those us of that saved ferelden in origins were not thrown into sn unfamiliar 'no-mans land' we didn't care about.When I think about all the wardens who gave their lives for the future of ferelden and for you, someone who only got to know the ferelden lands through codex entries and rumors to make such a generalization as that...It just...I don't want to talk about this anymore.

Sorry but what is the point of getting to say hi to old lady miriam,widow alice or old man barlin before the blight sweeps them away? It was useless in origins conversing with people you could never save and its useless now, best to cut that usless fat.Are you looking for a reason to mourn lothering and its denizens? don't bother, lothering like castle cousland is a place you grew up, got destroyed and rebuilt with you never stepping foot there again.To put a finer edge on my point, Hawke didn't actually live 'in' lothering, he/she lived on the fringes.

[quote]
um... I repeat what you just said back at you, "the whole world is in peril"? where did you get that? I said exactly the opposite, DA2 aimed to be a more personal story (but failed at that), while other games just try to be as "epic" as possible. Which is too bad, because I usually tend to like these personal stories more, when they are done right.And I hope Bioware will try, and make a better attempt at another smaller, more personal story sometime.[/quote] 

No you didn't, at the end of your statement, you said Da2 failed at not putting the world in peril.

[quote]
Well, thanks for stating that new players have no business picking up DA2. That just proves my point, since I'm trying to explain that this ispart of the problem (you know, usually the aim for developers is to make sure that even new players can get right into a new game). Otherwise, if you think "just another day" might have been done to death, but it is a good way to learn about your family, and get into your role when the unexpected happens (=immerse yourself in your character). And even "just another day" can be pretty entertaining. Tried playing a dwarf origin in DA:O? [/quote] 

Would you pick up the second book in a series like harry potter or twilight and expect to imediately be brought up to speed as to what's going on in the that reality? Gaming is no different, complete the first game, learn the politics,issues and general scope of the land then hit the next adventure in the series.I don't believe new players should be catered to because content is 'dumbed down' so they can understand exactly what's going on.

[quote] And as for "Why would you need to expiernce the events of ostagar as a common soldier in Da2 when we already did that in Da:O " No, you didn't experience the events as a common soldier in DA:O, but as a Grey Warden. We never saw the battle from the point of view of a common soldier in the battlefield. [/quote] 

Every origin, excluding mage starts you off with soldier training, you don't become a warden till the near end of the ostagar arc and let's not kid ourselves here, the warden didn't actually embrace that title till after ostagar when they had no choice but to.

[quote] not to mention it would kill quite a bit of lore.  " How so? It is already stated in DA2 that you and your brother (unless you are a mage, as someone pointed out I missed that. Been a while since I played DA2) fought in that battle, and that you and your family then had to escape from Lothering. Rather than these characters talking about these big events that were just yesterday though, I think it would be more immersive to experience it ourselves. But don't worry, I know that it is a bit hard to remember these important events when they are just briefly mentioned without you ever actually experiencing it. [/quote] 

This has already been adressed by realmzmaster

[quote]
Um, you just said plainly that new players had no business to play DA2, which was one of my larger points. And the only generalisations I make are in the first few rows, the rest is just explaining timeskips that DID happen in the game, and examples of how it could have been handled. And how the heck did you get the impression that I think they should do what I have said here? They have already left DA2 for "the next big thing", and even if it was just after release ti would be a little late to change that much. I'm just stating examples as to where it was, and didn't fit in DA2, in hope that they will try to show rather than tell events in DA3. Please enlighten me how that is "
projecting your feelings as if you speak for the whole and the Idea that the DA team should pander solely to your ideas because you've obviously been writing Fantasy & game content longer than Hepler & gaider, Tsk tsk  "

Please explain in particular how I'm stating that I've been "writing Fantasy & game content longer than Hepler & gaider", because I somehow missed that it in the text.  I never once said that "this is how it is done". What I DID say is that they should avoid timeskips, and explained why it disconnects us from our characters. If I exampe have to use my memories from my warden to remember events that my Hawke should know, it pulls me of from the experience, and I remember that I'm just playing a game. And thus, once again, I don't care what happens to Hawke or the world around him, because that's him, not me. [/quote]

New players don't have any business picking up Da2 but I've already explained my reasoning on that further up in this post so no need to repeat.

EDIT: And for the record, I'm a lousy writer. Tried several times, but I'm unfortunately not very creative when it comes to stories.Pretty sure I have stated that before in previous comments as well. Frankly, if I didn't have faith in Bioware's storytelling, I wouldn't even be here in the first place. I do think that DA2 was the worst Bioware game ever, however.

[/quote]

Taken from the beginning of the third paragraph in your opening "WHat DA2 SHOULD have done <Insert course on good fantasy writing here> "

Consider yourself enlightened young grasshoppa

[Amycus89]

[quote]Emzamination wrote...

[quote]Amycus89 wrote...

Oh, I did care about Ferelden after having played DA2. However, there were many new players as well, who never played DA:O before. My main problem with it though is that my character, Hawke, never had any reason to care (depite me having played origins). I don't know how he, the character I'm currently roleplaying as, felt about Lothering, what people he knew there or anything. We quite frankly never got any time to "develop" our own character's personality. [/quote] 

Ferelden only appeared in the beginning of Da2, the rest of the game takes place in the free marches.But anywho those us of that saved ferelden in origins were not thrown into sn unfamiliar 'no-mans land' we didn't care about.When I think about all the wardens who gave their lives for the future of ferelden and for you, someone who only got to know the ferelden lands through codex entries and rumors to make such a generalization as that...It just...I don't want to talk about this anymore.

Sorry but what is the point of getting to say hi to old lady miriam,widow alice or old man barlin before the blight sweeps them away? It was useless in origins conversing with people you could never save and its useless now, best to cut that usless fat.Are you looking for a reason to mourn lothering and its denizens? don't bother, lothering like castle cousland is a place you grew up, got destroyed and rebuilt with you never stepping foot there again.To put a finer edge on my point, Hawke didn't actually live 'in' lothering, he/she lived on the fringes.
[/quote]   

Right because it would, for example, make that much sense to seek revenge on Howe in his dungeon in DA:O if you were only told before "hey dude, Howe once betrayed your father and tried to slaughter all your family and everyone you cared before. That's why you should hate him. Just pointing it out there. You never actually saw it yourself, but we say it was so, and that's it". Riiight...  
[/quote]   

[quote]Emzamination wrote...

[quote]Amycus89 wrote... 
um... I repeat what you just said back at you, "the whole world is in peril"? where did you get that? I said exactly the opposite, DA2 aimed to be a more personal story (but failed at that), while other games just try to be as "epic" as possible. Which is too bad, because I usually tend to like these personal stories more, when they are done right.And I hope Bioware will try, and make a better attempt at another smaller, more personal story sometime.

No you didn't, at the end of your statement, you said Da2 failed at not putting the world in peril.
[/quote] 
I once again state, no I didn't, quite the opposite:
"
I know that Da2 tried to do a more personal, emotional story compared to origins. And I actually like that idea, as opposed to everything being "epic" where the whole world is once again in peril and you are the only one to stop it. "

If I really did state otherwise later in the text, quote it. Otherwise you might want to consider getting new glasses.
[/quote]   

[quote]Emzamination wrote...

[quote]Amycus89 wrote... 
Well, thanks for stating that new players have no business picking up DA2. That just proves my point, since I'm trying to explain that this ispart of the problem (you know, usually the aim for developers is to make sure that even new players can get right into a new game). Otherwise, if you think "just another day" might have been done to death, but it is a good way to learn about your family, and get into your role when the unexpected happens (=immerse yourself in your character). And even "just another day" can be pretty entertaining. Tried playing a dwarf origin in DA:O? [/quote] 

Would you pick up the second book in a series like harry potter or twilight and expect to imediately be brought up to speed as to what's going on in the that reality? Gaming is no different, complete the first game, learn the politics,issues and general scope of the land then hit the next adventure in the series.I don't believe new players should be catered to because content is 'dumbed down' so they can understand exactly what's going on.

[quote] And as for "Why would you need to expiernce the events of ostagar as a common soldier in Da2 when we already did that in Da:O " No, you didn't experience the events as a common soldier in DA:O, but as a Grey Warden. We never saw the battle from the point of view of a common soldier in the battlefield. [/quote] 

Every origin, excluding mage starts you off with soldier training, you don't become a warden till the near end of the ostagar arc and let's not kid ourselves here, the warden didn't actually embrace that title till after ostagar when they had no choice but to.

[quote] not to mention it would kill quite a bit of lore.  " How so? It is already stated in DA2 that you and your brother (unless you are a mage, as someone pointed out I missed that. Been a while since I played DA2) fought in that battle, and that you and your family then had to escape from Lothering. Rather than these characters talking about these big events that were just yesterday though, I think it would be more immersive to experience it ourselves. But don't worry, I know that it is a bit hard to remember these important events when they are just briefly mentioned without you ever actually experiencing it. [/quote] 

This has already been adressed by realmzmaster
[/quote]   
Unfortunately I have never read Harry Potter or Twilight (tried, but not my type of book. I stopped reading twilight after the "sparkles". Yes, I'm serious), so I can't comment anuthing about that. Apart from that, the developers usually try to make sure that completely new players can play the sequal and still get what's going on from the first game. Look at IGN's Mass effect 2 review for example, or just look in any forum for questions like "can I play this woithout having played the first game?" You might not care about the new players, and I don't really do that either, but the company that want to sell their games usually does.

And I somehow doubt that the King greets every new recruit personally. Not to mention that you have to explain to him that you are not really a Grey warden yet. And everyone in Ostagar greets you as warden from the start, even the first soldier guy you meet after crossing the bridge of Ostagar. Seriosuly, did you even play DA:O? If anything you were never treated as a common soldier. Heck, even Loghain treats you with initial disrespect because he thinks the king trusts the wardens too much.

As for realmzmaser's explanation, quotes are nice, becaue I can't find any of his posts here mentioning the word "lore". You are being pretty vague here. 

[quote]Emzamination wrote...

[quote]Amycus89 wrote... 
Um, you just said plainly that new players had no business to play DA2, which was one of my larger points. And the only generalisations I make are in the first few rows, the rest is just explaining timeskips that DID happen in the game, and examples of how it could have been handled. And how the heck did you get the impression that I think they should do what I have said here? They have already left DA2 for "the next big thing", and even if it was just after release ti would be a little late to change that much. I'm just stating examples as to where it was, and didn't fit in DA2, in hope that they will try to show rather than tell events in DA3. Please enlighten me how that is "
projecting your feelings as if you speak for the whole and the Idea that the DA team should pander solely to your ideas because you've obviously been writing Fantasy & game content longer than Hepler & gaider, Tsk tsk  "

Please explain in particular how I'm stating that I've been "writing Fantasy & game content longer than Hepler & gaider", because I somehow missed that it in the text.  I never once said that "this is how it is done". What I DID say is that they should avoid timeskips, and explained why it disconnects us from our characters. If I exampe have to use my memories from my warden to remember events that my Hawke should know, it pulls me of from the experience, and I remember that I'm just playing a game. And thus, once again, I don't care what happens to Hawke or the world around him, because that's him, not me. [/quote]

New players don't have any business picking up Da2 but I've already explained my reasoning on that further up in this post so no need to repeat.
[/quote] 

And so have I above. Nice we can agree on something. No need to repeat.

EDIT: And for the record, I'm a lousy writer. Tried several times, but I'm unfortunately not very creative when it comes to stories.Pretty sure I have stated that before in previous comments as well. Frankly, if I didn't have faith in Bioware's storytelling, I wouldn't even be here in the first place. I do think that DA2 was the worst Bioware game ever, however.

[/quote]

[quote]Emzamination wrote...
Taken from the beginning of the third paragraph in your opening "WHat DA2 SHOULD have done <Insert course on good fantasy writing here> "

Consider yourself enlightened young grasshoppa

[/quote]
Considering that I was referring to filling in the timeskips, I don't really see the problem here. Yes, they should fill in the time that makes a great mark on the future on your life, what starts the whole thing, the time that should, for better or worse, be the most important event in your life. I stand by that. As for how they would have done it, is another matter. As I have explained before, I just filled in examples of how it could have been done. Or do you think that everything else than looking for medicine on the ship would have been the wrong course of action just because I wrote that? That my whole story in the OP would be universal for everyone there? In that case there wouldn't be any need for a story, since everyone not only could, but would have come up with the same thing. Seriously, I shouldn't even need to explain this, how did you think here?

EDIT: Actually,you have missed the whole point of this thread: I'm asking Bioware to refrain from using timeskips in DA3, and through using DA2 as an example, explain that it is better to show and experience something for yourself, than tell. And while my examples are just that, examples, of what could have been done in DA2, I do think that "my way" if you will (I will be the first to admit that it is crappy as it is now though, especially considering the mage origin as already mentioned before on this thread), would still be better than having nothing at all besides someone saying "three years later". Though I trust Bioware to write something better than I crapped out in 15 min if they had only tried. However, they didn't, and just made a timeskip -  and that is the problem,  a problem I hope they don't repeat in DA3

Modifié par Amycus89, 07 août 2012 - 12:42 .

[Emzamination]

Amycus89 wrote...


Right because it would, for example, make that much sense to seek revenge on Howe in his dungeon in DA:O if you were only told before "hey dude, Howe once betrayed your father and tried to slaughter all your family and everyone you cared before. That's why you should hate him. Just pointing it out there. You never actually saw it yourself, but we say it was so, and that's it". Riiight...  

   

If a man/woman Invades your home and kills your family, does it REALLY matter if you've had past associations with this person to be enraged and extract vengance?

Lol, if you're told your family has been slaughtered and the home that has been in your family for countless generations is suddenly given to one of your vassals, wouldn't logic dictate...you know what I'll let you figure that out on your own.

um... I repeat what you just said back at you, "the whole world is in peril"? where did you get that? I said exactly the opposite, DA2 aimed to be a more personal story (but failed at that), while other games just try to be as "epic" as possible. Which is too bad, because I usually tend to like these personal stories more, when they are done right.And I hope Bioware will try, and make a better attempt at another smaller, more personal story sometime.

No you didn't, at the end of your statement, you said Da2 failed at not putting the world in peril.
 
I once again state, no I didn't, quite the opposite:
"
I know that Da2 tried to do a more personal, emotional story compared to origins. And I actually like that idea, as opposed to everything being "epic" where the whole world is once again in peril and you are the only one to stop it. "

If I really did state otherwise later in the text, quote it. Otherwise you might want to consider getting new glasses.

   

"I know that Da2 tried to do a more personal, emotional story compared to
origins. And I actually like that idea, as opposed to everything being
"epic" where the whole world is once again in peril and you are the only
one to stop it. Unfortunately, as I think it is pretty clear now, it
failed pretty spectacularly in these areas. "

 
Unfortunately I have never read Harry Potter or Twilight (tried, but not my type of book. I stopped reading twilight after the "sparkles". Yes, I'm serious), so I can't comment anuthing about that. Apart from that, the developers usually try to make sure that completely new players can play the sequal and still get what's going on from the first game. Look at IGN's Mass effect 2 review for example, or just look in any forum for questions like "can I play this woithout having played the first game?" You might not care about the new players, and I don't really do that either, but the company that want to sell their games usually does.

And I somehow doubt that the King greets every new recruit personally. Not to mention that you have to explain to him that you are not really a Grey warden yet. And everyone in Ostagar greets you as warden from the start, even the first soldier guy you meet after crossing the bridge of Ostagar. Seriosuly, did you even play DA:O? If anything you were never treated as a common soldier. Heck, even Loghain treats you with initial disrespect because he thinks the king trusts the wardens too much.

As for realmzmaser's explanation, quotes are nice, becaue I can't find any of his posts here mentioning the word "lore". You are being pretty vague here.

 

The books were examples as to why the rest of you wrote within that paragraph is wrong.The king didn't come to greet the warden personally, he came to greet duncan and the warden happened to be there.Why wouldn't the warden be greeted as warden? He/she was a warden recruit but not yet an actual warden, there is a dialogue option on your first meeting with loghain with which you can reaffirm this.I don't know what ostagar you were in that you were treated with such auspicious praise but the ostagar 'I' was in had me barred from most areas and treated like an errand boy, even lower than a soldier.If you question whether I've played or beaten origins, you can always check my profile and take a gander at my different personas.

Lore

Considering that I was referring to filling in the timeskips, I don't really see the problem here. Yes, they should fill in the time that makes a great mark on the future on your life, what starts the whole thing, the time that should, for better or worse, be the most important event in your life. I stand by that. As for how they would have done it, is another matter. As I have explained before, I just filled in examples of how it could have been done. Or do you think that everything else than looking for medicine on the ship would have been the wrong course of action just because I wrote that? That my whole story in the OP would be universal for everyone there? In that case there wouldn't be any need for a story, since everyone not only could, but would have come up with the same thing. Seriously, I shouldn't even need to explain this, how did you think here?

EDIT: Actually,you have missed the whole point of this thread: I'm asking Bioware to refrain from using timeskips in DA3, and through using DA2 as an example, explain that it is better to show and experience something for yourself, than tell. And while my examples are just that, examples, of what could have been done in DA2, I do think that "my way" if you will (I will be the first to admit that it is crappy as it is now though, especially considering the mage origin as already mentioned before on this thread), would still be better than having nothing at all besides someone saying "three years later". Though I trust Bioware to write something better than I crapped out in 15 min if they had only tried. However, they didn't, and just made a timeskip -  and that is the problem,  a problem I hope they don't repeat in DA3

You could have worded it like this "What Da2 could have done: <Insert opinions here>" but what you said was "What Da2 should have done: < Insert reprimand here>" 

Oh believe me, I got the point, might want to double check the wording next time you want to make a different one

[seraphymon]

Realmzmaster wrote...
I was talking about the passage of time. The amount of time given for DAO is one year. You cannot tell me that a person no matter how much skill progression in battle may vary from person to person is going from level 1 to level 20 in that time frame. It took  the Bhaalspawn two games plus expansions to even come close to that level.

I  am not just talking about DAO and DA2. Might and Magic had party members seek training before they could achieve the next level in their class. It did not stop the progression of the story. The character was denied the next level until training was completed by performing a quest for the trainer especially at advanced levels. This helped with the sense of time progression and achievement. Training was part of the story.

The time skips in DA2 allows for training and practice to happen. No it is not a nitpick of mine. Many on this forum have been talking about how realistic certain parts of a game should be, but have no problem glossing this over. As i have stated in other posts how real do you want your realism?

the passage of time though is seperate from game mechanics. You cannot compare how the lvl progression of one game to the next as they just vary and can be different. its about seeing lvl 1 -20. but rather from min to max. In which there is a soft and/or hard cap. With expansions or sequels extending it.

Its a totally seperate and unrelated issue to the sense of How fast a person develops his skills in battle. Once more, theres people who are naturally gifted. DAO being a prime example, thats why you are chosen to be a warden because your exceptional. and wether it is a years time or 7 years, you have to also factor in how many battles you fit in during the timespan.

Other areas people ask for realism, like swinging of a sword, but people gloss over this is because  your trying to intertwine realistic progression with a lvl up system, that cannot be anything more than a game gimmick. Realiisticly in real life i cant have a number over my head saying im lvl 20 so and so.

[Amycus89]

Emzamination wrote...

Amycus89 wrote...


Right because it would, for example, make that much sense to seek revenge on Howe in his dungeon in DA:O if you were only told before "hey dude, Howe once betrayed your father and tried to slaughter all your family and everyone you cared before. That's why you should hate him. Just pointing it out there. You never actually saw it yourself, but we say it was so, and that's it". Riiight...  

   

If a man/woman Invades your home and kills your family, does it REALLY matter if you've had past associations with this person to be enraged and extract vengance?

Lol, if you're told your family has been slaughtered and the home that has been in your family for countless generations is suddenly given to one of your vassals, wouldn't logic dictate...you know what I'll let you figure that out on your own.

    
Well, since you apparenty can't figure out the meaning on your own, let me spell it out for you in simple words:
It's a huge difference in seing some stranger being killed than someone you know closely, and have grown to like. 

Secondly, there is also a huge difference between seeing someone being killed firsthand, and just reading a newspaper about it. Now that wasn't so hard to understand right?

Emzamination wrote...

Amycus89 wrote...
um... I repeat what you just said back at you, "the whole world is in peril"? where did you get that? I said exactly the opposite, DA2 aimed to be a more personal story (but failed at that), while other games just try to be as "epic" as possible. Which is too bad, because I usually tend to like these personal stories more, when they are done right.And I hope Bioware will try, and make a better attempt at another smaller, more personal story sometime.

No you didn't, at the end of your statement, you said Da2 failed at not putting the world in peril.
 
I once again state, no I didn't, quite the opposite:
"
I know that Da2 tried to do a more personal, emotional story compared to origins. And I actually like that idea, as opposed to everything being "epic" where the whole world is once again in peril and you are the only one to stop it. "

If I really did state otherwise later in the text, quote it. Otherwise you might want to consider getting new glasses.

   

"I know that Da2 tried to do a more personal, emotional story compared to
origins. And I actually like that idea, as opposed to everything being
"epic" where the whole world is once again in peril and you are the only
one to stop it. Unfortunately, as I think it is pretty clear now, it
failed pretty spectacularly in these areas. "  

    
I assume that smiley doesn't mean that you finally got those reading glasses, because that's the same quote I mentioned in bold above We are both referring to the same quote to our defence in case you didn't notice:lol:.

I A M S A Y I N G T H A T I LIKED the idea of a more personal story compared to the more epic one in origins. Try reading the text you just quoted, nice and slowly. It does wonders, really.

I still don't get how you manage to read that like I prefer an "epic" story when I'm writing the complete opposite there. Note the keyword "opposed to..."

Emzamination wrote...

Amycus89 wrote... 
Unfortunately I have never read Harry Potter or Twilight (tried, but not my type of book. I stopped reading twilight after the "sparkles". Yes, I'm serious), so I can't comment anuthing about that. Apart from that, the developers usually try to make sure that completely new players can play the sequal and still get what's going on from the first game. Look at IGN's Mass effect 2 review for example, or just look in any forum for questions like "can I play this woithout having played the first game?" You might not care about the new players, and I don't really do that either, but the company that want to sell their games usually does.

And I somehow doubt that the King greets every new recruit personally. Not to mention that you have to explain to him that you are not really a Grey warden yet. And everyone in Ostagar greets you as warden from the start, even the first soldier guy you meet after crossing the bridge of Ostagar. Seriosuly, did you even play DA:O? If anything you were never treated as a common soldier. Heck, even Loghain treats you with initial disrespect because he thinks the king trusts the wardens too much.

As for realmzmaser's explanation, quotes are nice, becaue I can't find any of his posts here mentioning the word "lore". You are being pretty vague here.

 

The books were examples as to why the rest of you wrote within that paragraph is wrong.The king didn't come to greet the warden personally, he came to greet duncan and the warden happened to be there.Why wouldn't the warden be greeted as warden? He/she was a warden recruit but not yet an actual warden, there is a dialogue option on your first meeting with loghain with which you can reaffirm this.I don't know what ostagar you were in that you were treated with such auspicious praise but the ostagar 'I' was in had me barred from most areas and treated like an errand boy, even lower than a soldier.If you question whether I've played or beaten origins, you can always check my profile and take a gander at my different personas.

   
Well, apparently we did play a different Ostagar, because when I played, even as an elf, the one selling supplies changed his mood pretty quick as soon as he knew (or at least assumed) that I was a grey warden. And then we have the prisoner we can kill without worrying about the law, and then we can get an audience with King Loghain,  I think there was a chantry sister that also commented on your "warden" satus if you refused receiving Andraste's prays. That's what I can remember at the moment. So yeah, apparently we played a different game all together. That would explain a lot of your comments.

Lore
From the link you gave me: "
Starting in Lothering and not coming back from Ostagar would have been a must. Coming back from the Battle of Ostagar only works for a warrior or rogue Hawke. Mage Hawke could not be at the battle unless he was a Circle or a Grey Warden mage. "
That was already first mentioned by Nightscrawl ( http://social.biowar...1827/1#13515533  ) , and I have already admitted that I missed that... actually I did it already in my previous response to you. I quote: "
not to mention it would kill quite a bit of lore.  " How so? It is already stated in DA2 that you and your brother (unless you are a mage, as someone pointed out I missed that. Been a while since I played DA2) " ( 
http://social.biowar...1827/2#13520815 )
So why are you still going on about this? Aside from your great desire to quarrel I mean?

Emzamination wrote...

Amycus89 wrote...  

Considering that I was referring to filling in the timeskips, I don't really see the problem here. Yes, they should fill in the time that makes a great mark on the future on your life, what starts the whole thing, the time that should, for better or worse, be the most important event in your life. I stand by that. As for how they would have done it, is another matter. As I have explained before, I just filled in examples of how it could have been done. Or do you think that everything else than looking for medicine on the ship would have been the wrong course of action just because I wrote that? That my whole story in the OP would be universal for everyone there? In that case there wouldn't be any need for a story, since everyone not only could, but would have come up with the same thing. Seriously, I shouldn't even need to explain this, how did you think here?

EDIT: Actually,you have missed the whole point of this thread: I'm asking Bioware to refrain from using timeskips in DA3, and through using DA2 as an example, explain that it is better to show and experience something for yourself, than tell. And while my examples are just that, examples, of what could have been done in DA2, I do think that "my way" if you will (I will be the first to admit that it is crappy as it is now though, especially considering the mage origin as already mentioned before on this thread), would still be better than having nothing at all besides someone saying "three years later". Though I trust Bioware to write something better than I crapped out in 15 min if they had only tried. However, they didn't, and just made a timeskip -  and that is the problem,  a problem I hope they don't repeat in DA3

You could have worded it like this "What Da2 could have done: <Insert opinions here>" but what you said was "What Da2 should have done: < Insert reprimand here>" 

As I have already explained. They SHOULD have skipped the timeskips. That I stand by, plain and simple. With me so far?

The rest, however, is obviously (unless you believe me to have psycic powers to reach into everyone's mind) examples of how this could have been achieved. If you think that somehow is arrogant of me, fine. However, personally I think that it would be much more arrogant of me to simply say "skip the timeskips, they are bad because I said so. No, I can't give any examples of how it could have been handled better, but it could, because I said so."

Emzamination wrote... 
Oh believe me, I got the point, might want to double check the wording next time you want to make a different one [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/sideways.png[/smilie] 

 
All evidence to the contrary... If you still don't understand it, I will simply give up hope for the humanity and let the other readers who have followed this discussion up to now make up their minds about it. 

Modifié par Amycus89, 07 août 2012 - 11:35 .

[TEWR]

nightscrawl wrote...

Also don't forget that the "fight for your life to get back to Lothering" portion, while exciting, is only valid if you played as a rogue or warrior, since a mage Hawke did not fight at Ostagar, only Carver did.

My response to this is....

You customize your Hawke's appearance. Varric narrates the "legend" version and Cassandra calls BS. So he tells her she needs to hear the whole story and the game starts off like this:



The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

here's an idea for how the beginning should have been.

You are Hawke, a simple Lothering villager doing what comes naturally. Walking around the village, helping your neighbors with a few simple tasks. Then you receive a notice that the army is heading out to Ostagar, and your brother (and you if you're a warrior or rogue) heads off to the forgotten fortress to meet the Darkspawn.

Upon arriving at the fortress, you converse with Carver and a female soldier. Her hair is a fiery ginger, but she is no simple woman. She is a woman you do not want to make angry. However, she is called away by her commanding officer and introductions are cut short. You then turn to see a man standing tall and proud in his silver cuirass. He's sporting a beard to be proud of and conversing with four other men. After they leave, he walks up to you and starts talking to you, because... well let's be honest, he has to pass the time until they get back. He introduces himself as Duncan of the Grey Wardens. You converse with him and respect him for what he says. Afterwards, he bids you farewell and awaits for his recruits to return.

The battle begins not long after they return....

As a warrior or rogue, it jumps ahead to the moment of truth when the battle starts. You and your brother lead a full squad of Lothering soldiers against the Darkspawn, awaiting the moment when the Tower Beacon is lit. Cutting down Darkspawn after Darkspawn, you look up to see if the beacon has been lit. The flames have shot up into the sky, but no reinforcements are coming. Your men are being savagely cut down in front of your eyes, and it's all you can do to keep from sharing their fate. You tell your brother that you have to get out because all is lost, but Carver refuses saying that he would rather die a soldier than desert the others.

Then you remind him that if you both die, so too will Bethany and your Mother. He knows you are right, and while disliking the idea of desertion, he knows that the family takes precedence. Before you turn away from the field however, you see Cailan killed gruesomely by the Ogre, Duncan avenging Cailan's death, but see Duncan fall to his knees. Duncan knows he won't survive, and you -- maybe -- want to help him. Why you want to help him above everyone else on the field you don't know, but it may be due to the respect you feel the Wardens deserve. But there is nothing you can do, as Carver holds you back to keep you from rushing headlong to your death.

And so you run away to Lothering to get your family out of the impending danger....

--------------------------------------------

*If you're a Mage*

(everything up until Carver leaves is the same.)

You tell Bethany not to fret about Carver, as he's not going to let some tainted creature kill him. He'd never forgive himself if he did. She says you're right and you go about your business. Then, overhearing two Templars, they say their scouts have reported some Darkspawn stragglers breaking away from the main body of the horde. Their destination? En route to Lothering. The two Templars prepare to move out to take on the Darkspawn with a squad of other Templars.

You and your sister however, know that your magic will prove far better to dealing with them. So off you go to meet the horde. Upon arriving at a suitable destination, you hear both the Templars and the Darkspawn moving closer in. You know if the Templars find you you'll be taken to the Circle, so you head up to the nearest cliffside hill for a better vantage point. It provides great cover from the line of sight of the Templars and will help greatly in eliminating the stragglers.

As your last fireball scorches the final Hurlock, the Templars shout out "A mage?! Show yourself, by order of the Templars! The Order Dictates!"

You both stay hidden. Maybe the Templars should've been left to their fate, as you both hate the Templars and the Circle with a passion -- well, maybe you do. But if they had died, the Darkspawn would've been left unchecked. It doesn't matter. What's done is done, and you sneak away into the bushes to return home.

As you return home however, you see Carver out of breath and your mother trembling. All is not well....

==============================================================

There would be some menial village like quests thrown in before the whole army goes to Ostagar thing. Maybe killing some spiders for Barlin, helping keep a merchant caravan safe, blah blah blah.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 08 août 2012 - 09:09 .