201 réponses à ce sujet

[LtAdams2247 Origin]

Psycho Pisces wrote...

Okay just so I understand you... I solo if I want an ego boost.. but when I play w/ teams I want teamwork. Well... I would solo, if my 360 weren't a paperweight

Exactly. Any player who regularly survives gold should have no problem solo running bronze.

And if a beginner can't find anything to shoot at because some N71200 already shredded the place with his destroyer/piranha X set up, that's not really teamwork, is it.

The ego boost for people like this comes in where in a solo round nobody can see how awesome you are.

[Star fury]

As too many people wrote in exact opposite topics - "Let people play how they want!" lol. Don't see a problem at all.

Kick button exists for reason.

[ClockworkSpectre]

Poor players in gold/plat has nothing to do with the OPs argument. The biggest thing that causes the presence of poor players in high difficulty is the sh*ty store system and low credit payouts at easier difficulties.

As far as the OPs case, it just doesn't make sense, Yes players may be killing everything, but you can learn from watching as well as playing. And more succesful runs means more credits to buy packs and upgrade everything.

Modifié par ClockworkSpectre, 04 août 2012 - 10:39 .

[kleichombam]

works both ways, when i started playing i could see the difference between the gameplay of us noobs and the higher level players- luckily for a duration i used to land up with people N7 < 150ish. I can say that i learned a lot just by watching the higher level players. At the same, a mission which would seem easy (because of a higher N7) would suddenly become painful with us all noobs. I do play bronze sometimes, but to try out different combinations or try out new classes which i am really bad at plus the payout is so-low, i can complete silver in almost the same amount of time - speaking sorely in terms of credits.

[Computron2000]

RSA586 wrote...

 The logic behind the main argument of this post is incredibly broken. Does it suck having a great player taking kills on bronze from an inexperienced one? Sort of. You still win and essentially get free
Credits. All the scrubs on gold and platinum on the other hand drag squads down, don't use equipment, and can make even great players fail. They've worked and earned their right to play any difficulty and thats why they do so well. If they carry you and get you free credits you should thank them not complain. 

So you feel that encouraging leeching is good for newbies? When the same newbies bring this wonderfully learnt lesson to gold and platinum, you'll be fine with it as well? After all, they are only applying what the learn in bronze (and supported by your views).

[JiceDuresh]

There's a huge problem with people not being considerate in this game. They think everyone should adapt to how they play and give no quarter when someone else wants to do things their way as well. It's really very sad.

I'm with op on this one. It's completely inconsiderate to go into a bronze match loaded out on a lvl 10 destroyer even with a pirhana, or a Kroguard/Vorcha with a Reegars and clean up the place. Anyone who can play silver reliably can do a bronze with a Katana and Drell Vanguard, so why are they rocking it up with the strongest set up, melting spawn points and pretty much ruining the game for three other people cause they're too damn inconsiderate to just solo and do that?

I don't know where people get this idea that people in bronze should be happy some dick comes in and whipes the floor with everything so they can get their credits and games in faster. Usually people playing bronze aren't leeches and don't need someone doing all the work for them and would like to enjoy the game by actaully playing it. If they really wanted to do it for the credits I'm pretty sure they can figure out about W/G/G soon enough, but my suspicion is that they'd prefer shooting things and learning how to play, not just have someone else farm credits for them. 

Who wants to watch someone else play a game while you've got a controler/mouse in your hand? 

Modifié par JiceDuresh, 04 août 2012 - 10:54 .

[RSA586]

How is it encouraging leeching? They're playing on a difficulty level where they can actually kill things unlike gold and platinum. They can watch the occasional outstanding player and learn strategy while earning free credits and this getting them up to speed and leveling past the awful early weapons/equipment quickly.

[jerrmy12]

LtAdams2247 Origin wrote...

D Amiri wrote...

If they weren't using Lvl 20's then there is no reason to complain. They also just gave your brother easy credits and exp in the smallest amount of time. Making it much quicker to get those weapons and characters he's jealous of.

Very generous of them. How come though that they don't seem to be so generous when a player with little experience enters a gold lobby? I think OP has a valid point.

retard
bronze is for beggeners and leaveling n fukn around
gold/plat is experienced players ONLY
OP HAS NO POINT

[.458]

Computron2000 wrote...

RSA586 wrote...

 The logic behind the main argument of this post is incredibly broken. Does it suck having a great player taking kills on bronze from an inexperienced one? Sort of. You still win and essentially get free
Credits. All the scrubs on gold and platinum on the other hand drag squads down, don't use equipment, and can make even great players fail. They've worked and earned their right to play any difficulty and thats why they do so well. If they carry you and get you free credits you should thank them not complain. 

So you feel that encouraging leeching is good for newbies? When the same newbies bring this wonderfully learnt lesson to gold and platinum, you'll be fine with it as well? After all, they are only applying what the learn in bronze (and supported by your views).

It isn't leaching if someone makes the kills first. Leaching is only if you TRY to not participate. There is no leaching lesson at all, the statement is completely unfounded. But...you can't get angry with someone because they have experience or do well...however, you can figure out why they are doing better. Looking, watching, it's all part of getting better. Just means the person who isn't getting anything needs to take more risks. Granted, it isn't the most fun thing, but they WILL get better and it WILL make them eventually take more kills than the next guy. I don't believe it is "ethical" for someone who is a gold player to constantly hit bronze as a way to make someone else suffer, it's simply a bit of a legalized griefing. Griefing is about intentionally destroying the joy of other people playing the game by doing things that are not participating, like spamming something that makes the ground shake when there is no target and you are standing on top of a sniper. But how would you prove someone is playing bronze to make the other people feel bad? But leaching, no, not even close.

[Computron2000]

RSA586 wrote...

How is it encouraging leeching? They're playing on a difficulty level where they can actually kill things unlike gold and platinum. They can watch the occasional outstanding player and learn strategy while earning free credits and this getting them up to speed and leveling past the awful early weapons/equipment quickly.

Jack the Noob: I think i killed 3 of the zombies
John the Noob: Wow this is easy as shat
RSA586: Thank me, you marther forkers for giving you easy credits
Jack the Noob: Thanks bro!

*laterz*
Jack the Noob: Hey since this bronze is easy as shat, lets go higher.
John the Noob: Silver?
Jack the Noob: For what? Lets go gold or platinum. It should be what? 3 times as difficult as just now?
John the Noob: Ok, lets do gold

*even laterz*
Jack the Noob: Hey its that guy we saw just now
John the Noob: Hey bro! We're here. Why are you running?
RSA586: HELP! BANSHEE! HELP!

*3 instakills later*
RSA586: What the fork are you guys dropping into my game for? Its only for outstanding and great players like me!
Jack the Noob: Hey bro, thought you could get us even more easy credits. This gold thing must be as easy for you as bronze, right bro?
John the Noob: Hey i got an idea. We can get even more easy credits if we drop into these gold or platinum games.
Jack the Noob: Thats a good idea, Johnny boy. Thanks bro for showing us how wonderful easy credits is.

[Psycho Pisces]

jerrmy12 wrote...

Civility, {can I have it please?} 

Reported, there are better ways to convey your point without resorting to offensive language.   

[Si-Shen]

It's rather amusing readin this thread, its full of people telling everyone how they should play a game they paid for. Just a tip, you do not have the authority or right to tell me how to play the game I paid for with my money, this applies to every owner who owns a copy of the game.

I play Bronze and Silver, why? Because I play for leasure, I just boot up after work for a match or two before dinner, if you don't like that I am a N7 700+ and can be found playing for a nice fun round with a level 18 in Bronze, too bad for you. Speak up in the lobby or suck it up and get the match going, its that simple.

Modifié par Si-Shen, 04 août 2012 - 11:09 .

[Computron2000]

.458 wrote...
It isn't leaching if someone makes the kills first. Leaching is only if you TRY to not participate. There is no leaching lesson at all, the statement is completely unfounded. But...you can't get angry with someone because they have experience or do well...however, you can figure out why they are doing better. Looking, watching, it's all part of getting better. Just means the person who isn't getting anything needs to take more risks. Granted, it isn't the most fun thing, but they WILL get better and it WILL make them eventually take more kills than the next guy. I don't believe it is "ethical" for someone who is a gold player to constantly hit bronze as a way to make someone else suffer, it's simply a bit of a legalized griefing. Griefing is about intentionally destroying the joy of other people playing the game by doing things that are not participating, like spamming something that makes the ground shake when there is no target and you are standing on top of a sniper. But how would you prove someone is playing bronze to make the other people feel bad? But leaching, no, not even close.

If someone is nuking all the spawns, then players will feel why should they even try. Since one person can do it all by himself, so do it all then.

Why participate when you're not needed at all? Lets sit there and wait for that guy to do everything. He even feels that you should be kneeling and thanking him for his kindess is giving you credits

Then the ones who find that the gravy train is nice, will want to do it more but get more out of it. They also notice the AFK kick. Both are easily solved.

[Highlord Heian]

Sgt SuperWae wrote...

Jealousy has nothing to do about it, and the fact that they make it so easy is precisely the problem. Good players are forged under fire, not when someone does all the work for them.

And,no. None of the players I saw were using lvl. 1 characters.

If people were seriously trying to get better they would be playing Silver, at least.

Some people like to play Bronze, just to mess around. If you don't like it, well, too ****ing bad. You can't really tell me how I can or can't play. I'll play where I damn well please, and if you don't like it, you can just sit pouting at the scoreboard all game.

[RSA586]

Comp-while humorous, entirely unnecessary and still isn't logical. The problem is that when my friends and I started playing, we were legitimately intimidated by gold difficulty and knew better than to overstep our limitations. Half of the scrubs I deal with in random lobbies get absolutely decimated but rather than learning their lesson and stepping back down, they expect to be carried.

I for one haven't played a bronze run in months, and don't see why it would even be fun to attempt. I bring level 1's to silver or gold lobbies because I know what I'm capable of from the time and experience I've earned by playing the game. Yet somehow me playing a bronze if I want is as wrong as an N7 18 trying to join platinum lobbies? Absolutely not.

Modifié par RSA586, 04 août 2012 - 11:17 .

[Computron2000]

RSA586 wrote...

Comp-while humorous, entirely unnecessary and still isn't logical. The problem is that wheny friends and I started playing, we were legitimately intimidated by gold difficulty and knew better than to overstep our limitations. Half of the scrubs I deal with in random lobbies get absolutely decimated but rather than learning their lesson and stepping back down, they expect to be carried.

I for one haven't played a bronze run in months, and don't see why it would even be fun to attempt. I bring level 1's to silver or gold lobbies because I know what I'm capable of from the time and experience I've earned by playing the game. Yet somehow me playing a bronze if I want is as wrong as an N7 18 trying to join platinum lobbies? Absolutely not.

If you get used to being carried in Bronze but the payout is low, why not get carried in gold or platinum. Both are getting carried anyway and the payout is much better.

As some have said, you can't deal with peeps playing how they want, too bad. It applies to you playing bronze and also to newbies jumping into gold. The knife cuts both ways

[JiceDuresh]

Si-Shen wrote...
It's rather amusing readin this thread, its full of people telling everyone how they should play a game they paid for. Just a tip, you do not have the authority or right to tell me how to play the game I paid for with my money, this applies to every owner who owns a copy of the game.

This is short sighted nonsense.  Everything you do in a multiplayer game, when you're playing with other people, affects them.  You can play solo how ever you want, but if I rocked up in your platnum game with a lvl 1 drell vangaurd holding nothing but an Eagle and no equipment, I'm sure you'd have something to say.  There's extreems.  Theres doing platnum when you barely know how to play, and doing bronze with maxed out N7 weapons and lvl 5 grenade gear.

The easy solution is to leave the lobby or kick, yes, but I don't know where people get this self riteous attitiude that they can do anything they want and no one can say anything about it, "me me me me, a little bit of you as well to pretend it's not all about me, me, me me me..."

No, sorry, if you go into bronze games and don't give lower N7 players a chance to do anything, you're a jerk, and I have every right to call you out for being a jerk.

[Beerfish]

That is a decent point by the op. I am indeed guilty of that. I am expereinced enough and equipped enough to not play bronze but I still do often. I do take lower n7's into account and help them out but the point is a valid one.

[Zero132132]

.458 wrote...

Computron2000 wrote...

RSA586 wrote...

 The logic behind the main argument of this post is incredibly broken. Does it suck having a great player taking kills on bronze from an inexperienced one? Sort of. You still win and essentially get free
Credits. All the scrubs on gold and platinum on the other hand drag squads down, don't use equipment, and can make even great players fail. They've worked and earned their right to play any difficulty and thats why they do so well. If they carry you and get you free credits you should thank them not complain. 

So you feel that encouraging leeching is good for newbies? When the same newbies bring this wonderfully learnt lesson to gold and platinum, you'll be fine with it as well? After all, they are only applying what the learn in bronze (and supported by your views).

It isn't leaching if someone makes the kills first. Leaching is only if you TRY to not participate. There is no leaching lesson at all, the statement is completely unfounded. But...you can't get angry with someone because they have experience or do well...however, you can figure out why they are doing better. Looking, watching, it's all part of getting better. Just means the person who isn't getting anything needs to take more risks. Granted, it isn't the most fun thing, but they WILL get better and it WILL make them eventually take more kills than the next guy. I don't believe it is "ethical" for someone who is a gold player to constantly hit bronze as a way to make someone else suffer, it's simply a bit of a legalized griefing. Griefing is about intentionally destroying the joy of other people playing the game by doing things that are not participating, like spamming something that makes the ground shake when there is no target and you are standing on top of a sniper. But how would you prove someone is playing bronze to make the other people feel bad? But leaching, no, not even close.

You're wrong. Most good players, when they go to bronze, rush spawn points and kill **** right the hell away. What are other players going to see? A weapon or power they don't have in the killfeed? People don't spend the entire match running around watching better players play. That'd be boring. So instead, they can't find **** to kill and they get the sense that bronze is too easy, bump up the difficulty before they're ready.

It isn't encouraging intentional leaching, the version where someone uses a rubberband to bypass the auto-kick feature, but it's encouraging the other kind, the kind where someone might not even know they're leaching. They play, they get a quarter of the points of the top player, and when things go well, it's because everyone else on the team carried them. When it doesn't, they might just think they had a bad team, because they don't recognize that they're constantly being carried.

I know there are a few like this. Met one once, actually. Carried a game hard, and the N7 46 in the match ended up friending me. I didn't reject because I'm too nice or some ****. He kept wanting to join up on gold/platinum runs with his Batarian Soldier with a Saber I because he hadn't sorted out that every time the match succeeded, it was because he got carried by better players. Not an intentional leach, but an accidental one.

Based on the typical composition of Gold PUGs, I think a lot of players are expecting to be carried, even if they don't know it. And I think that this effect starts with what the OP mentioned.

[.458]

Computron2000 wrote...

.458 wrote...
It isn't leaching if someone makes the kills first. Leaching is only if you TRY to not participate. There is no leaching lesson at all, the statement is completely unfounded. But...you can't get angry with someone because they have experience or do well...however, you can figure out why they are doing better. Looking, watching, it's all part of getting better. Just means the person who isn't getting anything needs to take more risks. Granted, it isn't the most fun thing, but they WILL get better and it WILL make them eventually take more kills than the next guy. I don't believe it is "ethical" for someone who is a gold player to constantly hit bronze as a way to make someone else suffer, it's simply a bit of a legalized griefing. Griefing is about intentionally destroying the joy of other people playing the game by doing things that are not participating, like spamming something that makes the ground shake when there is no target and you are standing on top of a sniper. But how would you prove someone is playing bronze to make the other people feel bad? But leaching, no, not even close.

If someone is nuking all the spawns, then players will feel why should they even try. Since one person can do it all by himself, so do it all then.

Why participate when you're not needed at all? Lets sit there and wait for that guy to do everything. He even feels that you should be kneeling and thanking him for his kindess is giving you credits

Then the ones who find that the gravy train is nice, will want to do it more but get more out of it. They also notice the AFK kick. Both are easily solved.

It's a sucky game, but it isn't leaching...the people didn't join it to NOT play. Leaching is different, it is about people who ARE needed joining with the INTENT to not help. Granted, the game sucks, but leaching? No. And AFK kick doesn't happen if people try to participate, it isn't score based.

[.458]

Zero132132 wrote...

.458 wrote...

Computron2000 wrote...

RSA586 wrote...

 The logic behind the main argument of this post is incredibly broken. Does it suck having a great player taking kills on bronze from an inexperienced one? Sort of. You still win and essentially get free
Credits. All the scrubs on gold and platinum on the other hand drag squads down, don't use equipment, and can make even great players fail. They've worked and earned their right to play any difficulty and thats why they do so well. If they carry you and get you free credits you should thank them not complain. 

So you feel that encouraging leeching is good for newbies? When the same newbies bring this wonderfully learnt lesson to gold and platinum, you'll be fine with it as well? After all, they are only applying what the learn in bronze (and supported by your views).

It isn't leaching if someone makes the kills first. Leaching is only if you TRY to not participate. There is no leaching lesson at all, the statement is completely unfounded. But...you can't get angry with someone because they have experience or do well...however, you can figure out why they are doing better. Looking, watching, it's all part of getting better. Just means the person who isn't getting anything needs to take more risks. Granted, it isn't the most fun thing, but they WILL get better and it WILL make them eventually take more kills than the next guy. I don't believe it is "ethical" for someone who is a gold player to constantly hit bronze as a way to make someone else suffer, it's simply a bit of a legalized griefing. Griefing is about intentionally destroying the joy of other people playing the game by doing things that are not participating, like spamming something that makes the ground shake when there is no target and you are standing on top of a sniper. But how would you prove someone is playing bronze to make the other people feel bad? But leaching, no, not even close.

You're wrong. Most good players, when they go to bronze, rush spawn points and kill **** right the hell away. What are other players going to see? A weapon or power they don't have in the killfeed? People don't spend the entire match running around watching better players play. That'd be boring. So instead, they can't find **** to kill and they get the sense that bronze is too easy, bump up the difficulty before they're ready.

It isn't encouraging intentional leaching, the version where someone uses a rubberband to bypass the auto-kick feature, but it's encouraging the other kind, the kind where someone might not even know they're leaching. They play, they get a quarter of the points of the top player, and when things go well, it's because everyone else on the team carried them. When it doesn't, they might just think they had a bad team, because they don't recognize that they're constantly being carried.

I know there are a few like this. Met one once, actually. Carried a game hard, and the N7 46 in the match ended up friending me. I didn't reject because I'm too nice or some ****. He kept wanting to join up on gold/platinum runs with his Batarian Soldier with a Saber I because he hadn't sorted out that every time the match succeeded, it was because he got carried by better players. Not an intentional leach, but an accidental one.

Based on the typical composition of Gold PUGs, I think a lot of players are expecting to be carried, even if they don't know it. And I think that this effect starts with what the OP mentioned.

You're still wrong. It's called "learning". Yes, it sucks. But I'm 100% right.

[Sgt SuperWae]

Zero132132 wrote...

.458 wrote...

Computron2000 wrote...

RSA586 wrote...

 The logic behind the main argument of this post is incredibly broken. Does it suck having a great player taking kills on bronze from an inexperienced one? Sort of. You still win and essentially get free
Credits. All the scrubs on gold and platinum on the other hand drag squads down, don't use equipment, and can make even great players fail. They've worked and earned their right to play any difficulty and thats why they do so well. If they carry you and get you free credits you should thank them not complain. 

So you feel that encouraging leeching is good for newbies? When the same newbies bring this wonderfully learnt lesson to gold and platinum, you'll be fine with it as well? After all, they are only applying what the learn in bronze (and supported by your views).

It isn't leaching if someone makes the kills first. Leaching is only if you TRY to not participate. There is no leaching lesson at all, the statement is completely unfounded. But...you can't get angry with someone because they have experience or do well...however, you can figure out why they are doing better. Looking, watching, it's all part of getting better. Just means the person who isn't getting anything needs to take more risks. Granted, it isn't the most fun thing, but they WILL get better and it WILL make them eventually take more kills than the next guy. I don't believe it is "ethical" for someone who is a gold player to constantly hit bronze as a way to make someone else suffer, it's simply a bit of a legalized griefing. Griefing is about intentionally destroying the joy of other people playing the game by doing things that are not participating, like spamming something that makes the ground shake when there is no target and you are standing on top of a sniper. But how would you prove someone is playing bronze to make the other people feel bad? But leaching, no, not even close.

You're wrong. Most good players, when they go to bronze, rush spawn points and kill **** right the hell away. What are other players going to see? A weapon or power they don't have in the killfeed? People don't spend the entire match running around watching better players play. That'd be boring. So instead, they can't find **** to kill and they get the sense that bronze is too easy, bump up the difficulty before they're ready.

It isn't encouraging intentional leaching, the version where someone uses a rubberband to bypass the auto-kick feature, but it's encouraging the other kind, the kind where someone might not even know they're leaching. They play, they get a quarter of the points of the top player, and when things go well, it's because everyone else on the team carried them. When it doesn't, they might just think they had a bad team, because they don't recognize that they're constantly being carried.

I know there are a few like this. Met one once, actually. Carried a game hard, and the N7 46 in the match ended up friending me. I didn't reject because I'm too nice or some ****. He kept wanting to join up on gold/platinum runs with his Batarian Soldier with a Saber I because he hadn't sorted out that every time the match succeeded, it was because he got carried by better players. Not an intentional leach, but an accidental one.

Based on the typical composition of Gold PUGs, I think a lot of players are expecting to be carried, even if they don't know it. And I think that this effect starts with what the OP mentioned.

@Zero132132: Thank you for articulating my point so well.  That's exactly what I believe the issue is.

All in all, for all those experienced players who are adamant about playing Bronze, that's fine.  Continue whiping out Bronze enemies and thinking you're doing all the beginners a favor.  Continue believing that beginners WANT TO sit around and watch you rob them of fun by eradicating everything.  Continue "testing class builds" on Bronze, though I see little point in doing so since Bronze is in no way an indication of how things work in higher difficulties.  Continue doing all these things and more; I, and no one else, can stop you.

But when a beginner pops up in your Gold/Plat lobby, don't blame them for being unprepared.

[JiceDuresh]

.458 wrote...
You're still wrong. It's called "learning". Yes, it sucks. But I'm 100% right.

Lets try not to be patronising to people.  It's not like we're talking about 5 years old we have to ween onto video games, new players are usually young adult or adults.  We don't have to give them kid gloves all the time and pretend they aren't playing to just enjoy the game and not just learn all the time.

Learning in school didn't mean that the smartest kid did everyone's homework.  Colleges don't teach auto mechanics by getting students to google maps the nearest Mr.Lube, and workplaces don't train by just giving the fastest employee the new guy's work to do.  Hands on is how you learn, which is held back by greedy players.

[Ziegrif]

Now that I think about it a seasoned Gold player should test their builds ON BLOODY SOLO BRONZES!
If you can do gold you can solo bronze aswell.
I don't know why you'd take people on board while you solo.
Computrons point is also quite valid.
I've played since launch + 1 operation.
I've grown out of Bronze a long time ago.

.458 wrote...

You're still wrong. It's called "learning". Yes, it sucks. But I'm 100% right.

AND YOU!
That is not an argument.
Either counter the argument before you or risk sounding entiteled.
Saying you're wrong because I'm right automatically destroys all of your credibility in ANY ARGUMENT.

JiceDuresh wrote...

.458 wrote...
You're still wrong. It's called "learning". Yes, it sucks. But I'm 100% right.

Lets try not to be patronising to people. It's not like we're talking about 5 years old we have to ween onto video games, new players are usually young adult or adults. We don't have to give them kid gloves all the time and pretend they aren't playing to just enjoy the game and not just learn all the time.

Learning in school didn't mean that the smartest kid did everyone's homework. Colleges don't teach auto mechanics by getting students to google maps the nearest Mr.Lube, and workplaces don't train by just giving the fastest employee the new guy's work to do. Hands on is how you learn, which is held back by greedy players.

THANK YOU! SIR!
Now if you'll excuse me I have Geth to stomp.

Modifié par Ziegrif, 05 août 2012 - 12:02 .

[Zero132132]

.458 wrote...

Zero132132 wrote...

You're wrong. Most good players, when they go to bronze, rush spawn points and kill **** right the hell away. What are other players going to see? A weapon or power they don't have in the killfeed? People don't spend the entire match running around watching better players play. That'd be boring. So instead, they can't find **** to kill and they get the sense that bronze is too easy, bump up the difficulty before they're ready.

It isn't encouraging intentional leaching, the version where someone uses a rubberband to bypass the auto-kick feature, but it's encouraging the other kind, the kind where someone might not even know they're leaching. They play, they get a quarter of the points of the top player, and when things go well, it's because everyone else on the team carried them. When it doesn't, they might just think they had a bad team, because they don't recognize that they're constantly being carried.

I know there are a few like this. Met one once, actually. Carried a game hard, and the N7 46 in the match ended up friending me. I didn't reject because I'm too nice or some ****. He kept wanting to join up on gold/platinum runs with his Batarian Soldier with a Saber I because he hadn't sorted out that every time the match succeeded, it was because he got carried by better players. Not an intentional leach, but an accidental one.

Based on the typical composition of Gold PUGs, I think a lot of players are expecting to be carried, even if they don't know it. And I think that this effect starts with what the OP mentioned.

You're still wrong. It's called "learning". Yes, it sucks. But I'm 100% right.

So basically, I explained WHY new players won't learn on bronze if great players consistently play bronze, and your retort is... that it's called "learning?" I know it's called learning. I was talking about learning. I was explaining why it doesn't happen in the way you were claiming it does.

What... I mean, did you make a point there, or just claim that you were right? Did I miss something? Was there any thought, at all, put into your post?