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[Cerbrus operative]

In my opinion, this is the best picture to describe Mass Effect 3

[Thaa_solon]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Thaa_solon wrote...

Before it's release ME3 was a good game after release however it was an awful game, then after EC it became kinda "meh".

Only "meh"

After I beat it, I started to realize what other aspects I hated that I wasn't paying attention to before.

True that

After I beat i realized.....That the game didn't "deliver" the enjoyment I waited for. I still feel dissatisfied....disgusted

But why did BW go and done goofd' with the ending and other parts of the game?

So I took refuge in these forums....trying to find an answer but to no avail......

And here Iam now, trying to stop future crimes againt reason and logic.......trying to save BW from itself

[FlamingBoy]

I disagree, the game was pretty darn average

[o Ventus]

If it was a game to be taken on its own merits (Say, as a standalone title) and not the third part of the ME trilogy it would have been OK, minus the Crucible and Catalyst. Bad plot devices are bad plot devices, no matter where they are. As it is now, it's the weakest of the three, and not just because of the endings. It might suck slightly less if the underlying theme of the series had actually been the conflict between synthetics and organics. The thematic assassination is the biggest nail in the coffin.

Throughout the game there are simply too many lore breaks and segments of characters being made into idiots for me to call it "good" storytelling (Coming from somebody who is able to watch all 3 Transformers movies in a row without getting an aneurysm). 

Modifié par o Ventus, 05 août 2012 - 11:40 .

[Henioo]

One more thread.

The game was average. Ain't nothing else to it.

[Pitznik]

o Ventus wrote...

(...)It might suck slightly less if the underlying theme of the series had actually been the conflict between synthetics and organics. The thematic assassination is the biggest nail in the coffin.

But it is not a theme of the series... it is just Reapers' reason to reap. You can in the final moment completely discard that theme and deny its existence.

The theme, if you really need one, could be "created versus creators". Than one works just fine.

[jstme]

Game was indeed average with few good to very good bits and quite a few of boring and simply very bad bits.

[o Ventus]

Pitznik wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

(...)It might suck slightly less if the underlying theme of the series had actually been the conflict between synthetics and organics. The thematic assassination is the biggest nail in the coffin.

But it is not a theme of the series... it is just Reapers' reason to reap.

Hence the "if" in my post.

You can in the final moment completely discard that theme and deny its existence.

Not really. 2 of the 4 ending options are clearly directly correlated to the synthetic/organic conflict (Destroy letting nature play itself out as it sees fit, and Synthesis ceasing the conflict, I don't see how Control or Refuse fix anything)

The theme, if you really need one, could be "created versus creators". Than one works just fine.

Maybe, but it isn't even remotely prevalent enough to be the main underlying theme of the series. A sub-theme, sure, but not a major.

[Pitznik]

o Ventus wrote...

=Not really. 2 of the 4 ending options are clearly directly correlated to the synthetic/organic conflict (Destroy letting nature play itself out as it sees fit, and Synthesis ceasing the conflict, I don't see how Control or Refuse fix anything)

Destroy may mean that you acknowledge the problem but decide to let it fix itself, or that you don't acknowledge the problem at all and just discard Starkid's logic and reasons entirely, like he never existed.

Control doesn't require you to acknowledge the problem. You keep Catalyst's tools, but reasons are your own - maybe you believe him and prefer to have them, or maybe you just enjoy the idea of having Reapers to fetch stuff for you.

Only Synthesis accepts the synthetic versus organic as the real theme.

o Ventus wrote...

Maybe, but it isn't even remotely prevalent enough to be the main underlying theme of the series. A sub-theme, sure, but not a major.

Geth vs Quarians
Krogan vs Salarians
Reapers vs their creators

It is pretty visible. There is no real main underlying theme of the series, all 3 games were pretty different. Unless we go with something really cheap and common like " unity is strength!" or "brave guys win!".

[o Ventus]

Pitznik wrote...

Destroy may mean that you acknowledge the problem but decide to let it fix itself, or that you don't acknowledge the problem at all and just discard Starkid's logic and reasons entirely, like he never existed.

The Catalyst explicitly says to you "in time, your children will create synthetics, and the chaos will return". That's what I was getting at.

Geth vs Quarians
Krogan vs Salarians
Reapers vs their creators

It is pretty visible. There is no real main underlying theme of the series, all 3 games were pretty different. Unless we go with something really cheap and common like " unity is strength!" or "brave guys win!".

Out of those 3, only 1 is known to be a conflict. The krogan were not created by the salarians, and it's never said if the Reapers' creators actually fought against the Reapers or not, nor is it implied. Not much evidence.

[Pitznik]

o Ventus wrote...

The Catalyst explicitly says to you "in time, your children will create synthetics, and the chaos will return". That's what I was getting at.

That's like, his opinion, man. You don't have to share it. You can simply discard what he is talking about, denying the existence of the theme entirely.

o Ventus wrote...
Out of those 3, only 1 is known to be a conflict. The krogan were not created by the salarians, and it's never said if the Reapers' creators actually fought against the Reapers or not, nor is it implied. Not much evidence.

There are more smaller examples - Lunar AI, even Cerberus in some way. Uplifting the species to be later attacked by it can be easily seen as echoing the theme of created versus creators.

Btw, do you believe for some really strong theme to exist at all, that links ME1 and ME2?

[o Ventus]

Pitznik wrote...

There are more smaller examples - Lunar AI, even Cerberus in some way. Uplifting the species to be later attacked by it can be easily seen as echoing the theme of created versus creators.

Btw, do you believe for some really strong theme to exist at all, that links ME1 and ME2?

@bold #1- TIM created Cerberus. Cerberus never bands together to kill TIM, or does something similar. The ex-Cerberus war assets don't count because Cerberus didn't "create" them, they were people who joined on their own volition and then left.

@bold #2- Unification of a diverse peoples to overcome a common enemy. In ME1 you're recruiting various individuals of various species to defeat Saren. In ME2 you're doing the same thing, only now it's against a different threat. In ME3, you're uniting entire civilizations.

[Pitznik]

o Ventus wrote...


@bold #1- TIM created Cerberus. Cerberus never bands together to kill TIM, or does something similar. The ex-Cerberus war assets don't count because Cerberus didn't "create" them, they were people who joined on their own volition and then left.

I meant it like Cerberus was created by the Alliance and ended up being against it.

o Ventus wrote...
@bold #2- Unification of a diverse peoples to overcome a common enemy. In ME1 you're recruiting various individuals of various species to defeat Saren. In ME2 you're doing the same thing, only now it's against a different threat. In ME3, you're uniting entire civilizations.

You recruit up to 3 individuals of species different than human... Up to 3... Also, this theme is incredibly obvious and cheap, each and every RPG with companions/races repeats it. You could also make "if you're brave and like to travel, you can do great things" a theme...  Or "violence solves almost every problem and makes you rich in the process". Not buying it.

[o Ventus]

Pitznik wrote...

I meant it like Cerberus was created by the Alliance and ended up being against it.

This was retconned. TIM founded Cerberus himself.

You recruit up to 3 individuals of species different than human... Up to 3... Also, this theme is incredibly obvious and cheap, each and every RPG with companions/races repeats it. You could also make "if you're brave and like to travel, you can do great things" a theme...  Or "violence solves almost every problem and makes you rich in the process". Not buying it.

ME1 has 4 possible recruitments. Tali, Wrex, Liara, and Garrus.

ME2 has 5 non-human squadmates. Thane, Grunt, Legion, Garrus, and Samara/Morinth, and Tali.

ME3, like I said, has you uniting whole nations.

The rest of your post is a non-reply, and so isn't worth my time. I will say this though, a "cheap" theme would be like "violence isn't the answer" or "rape is bad".

[EnvyTB075]

I'm failing to see how the Salarians created the Krogan. They may have neutered them because they uplifted them, but thats not the same as being created entirely.

Created vs Creator was nothing more than a side plot throughout the series that was resolved in ME3 (one way or another) and then annoyingly brought forward as the very thing we've been fighting for the entire time....which is just complete and utter ****.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Despite it's draw back I liked the game. But it broke the universe.

[Mordak55]

ME3 was good, I'd agree with that, could have been better though. Fetch Quests, MP, and broken Journal didn't help. But the ending did brake it for me. I don't mind the mutliplyer its ok, but it obvioulsy resulted in less SP, cos the SP game was a lot smaller than it should have been, I assume due to disk space issues. 

However thats my personal option, and to any one that liked it. Please dont give me a hard time just because I didn't.

I do think that the EC DLC helped the endings, I did find the extra clarifcation was helpful, and the slide show, and memorial was fine. 

I picked Destroy, and would have been happier if there was either no breath or shepherd walking away, I personally don't want to head canon if she survived or not, again just my opinion. 

I dont have a problem the the Brats logic, if its flawed then that just an excuse to keep the cycle going to stay in charge as far as I can see, its the use of the Brat at all I dont like, I feel it would have been better to user a  VI, or AI, or even just TIM. 

I will be getting the new DLC, despite my dislike of ther StarBrat, the EC DLC has made the game playable again for me, thats not to say however that I dont hope that Bioware make a better job of the next game. 

Please don't flame this post, but any one that wants to discuss the above points I am happy to do so in a respectful maner. 

 

Modifié par Mordak55, 05 août 2012 - 01:29 .

[xlI ReFLeX lIx]

ME3 as an action shooter adventure game is a good game but ME3 in comparison to ME1 and ME2 sucks. And not just the ending, ME3 has quite a bit a flaws.

[xlI ReFLeX lIx]

Cerbrus operative wrote...

In my opinion, this is the best picture to describe Mass Effect 3

QFT

[KIERONOO]

Not many people will agree with this but mass effect is not the same without Shepard. Yes there are MANY other stories to tell in the universe via prequels but they will not sell as well and will not feel the same. The characters you have played with and get to known over three games, you will never feel the same way w it hour Shepard. Shepard now is to mass effect what kratos is to god of war, what drake is to uncharted and I think bioware has misjudged this.


This is my own opinion so take it with pince of salt

Modifié par KIERONOO, 05 août 2012 - 01:37 .

[Pitznik]

o Ventus wrote...

ME1 has 4 possible recruitments. Tali, Wrex, Liara, and Garrus.

ME2 has 5 non-human squadmates. Thane, Grunt, Legion, Garrus, and Samara/Morinth, and Tali.

ME3, like I said, has you uniting whole nations.

The rest of your post is a non-reply, and so isn't worth my time. I will say this though, a "cheap" theme would be like "violence isn't the answer" or "rape is bad".

4 optional recruitments (is Tali optional? can't remember), ability of playing human supremacist, ability to enforce human council... how does that fit into unity theme? Recruiting various squadmates is part of the genre, not a theme.

ME2 was complete change of theme compared to ME1, but people prefer to nitpick and made up some inconsistent themes that run throughout the whole story, while the fact is that story wasn't even written as a trilogy, but one game at a time, by different people, without any real overall plot or even theme.

EnvyTB075 wrote...

I'm failing to see how the Salarians
created the Krogan. They may have neutered them because they uplifted
them, but thats not the same as being created entirely.

Created
vs Creator was nothing more than a side plot throughout the series that
was resolved in ME3 (one way or another) and then annoyingly brought
forward as the very thing we've been fighting for the entire
time....which is just complete and utter ****.

It is not a plot, it is a theme. You don't resolve a theme.

How you can't see how the fact that Salarian played God with Krogan, and then had to play God again so they avoid destruction doesn't fit the theme of dangers of playing God, created versus creators?

[Dusen]

o Ventus wrote...

Blood drinker 7777 wrote...

we are forget that one of the prime reason we hate mass effect 3 because it ends shepards story,
 

Not true in the slightest, for quite a lot of people.

Yeah, I mostly dislike the game because it is just an average third-person action game that while isn't deserving of all the hate it recieves, is still not deserving of the Mass Effect title either. ME3 pales in comparison to it's predecesors in nearly every way except for combat and weapon modification. . . and while that is obviously my opinion, I just don't see how anyone can think of the game much differently.

[Mordak55]

xlI ReFLeX lIx wrote...

ME3 as an action shooter adventure game is a good game but ME3 in comparison to ME1 and ME2 sucks. And not just the ending, ME3 has quite a bit a flaws.

Well I must admit that I prefer the story and RPG elements in ME1, both ME2 and ME3 went more shooter than RPG. Having said that the shooter element was better in ME3 than ME2. On that subject anyone miss the over heating guns from ME1, I much prefered them to the silly thermal clips brought in ME2.