430 réponses à ce sujet

[AxStapleton]

Another typical day on BSN.

[dreman9999]

Ryzaki wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

agu123 wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

"Upload the code Legion"

"But you're going to kill my people!"

"Deal with it."

"Bu-bu-bu-bu-"

"Upload 100% complete. Personality dissemination required."

Comitting suicide was out of emotion, standing there and doing nothing was out of stupidity.

If Tali had attempted to kill you, you'd probably add it to your list of reasons to kill the Quarians.

Killing Shepard doesn't save her people, killing Legion does.

Yup. If she'd tried to kill Legion I'd respected that. Same as I respect Legion trying to kill Shepard. It would've showed me that they care about their people more than Shepard and aren't willing to let Shepard stomp all over them. It shows backbone, that something is more important to them, there's something they're willing to die to protect. I respect that like I respect Legion, Mordin and Wrex. (Can't respect the VS because...Udina. Just...dumb is dumb).

Hipicrite. You make it sound the VS knew full well Udina was the trator.

VS knew full well Udina was a snake. So yeah trusting his word implicitly is idiotic. Especially since you can gain their "trust" just by visiting them in the hospital. NVM that Shep has more important things to do.

He was a snake before the reaper war. Now he just a desprite man. The VS had no way to see he was the traitor. And the hospital visit is Shepard and the VS making peace with one another. It shepard convincing them to trust one another.

[Ryzaki]

dreman9999 wrote...
How do you not understand that Shepard would stop Tali if she even attemts to stop Legion. Legion can be hacked or one shotted by Tali far ranged. No matter what she would have to go through Shepard to get to LEgion. She would fail.

Shep's back was turned to her. It just takes one stab in the right place to stop Legion (even if only temporary). Though yes she'd most likely fail it's still a better chance than her standing their crying. That's the point. Legion also was going to fail. It was a better chance than him standing there doing nothing!

[Banul]

Its so easy to sit in the audience's perspective and go on about how pathetic Tali is. But unless you ever been in that position, its a bit silly to judge. Tali got overwhelmed: shocked into inaction. I'm not saying that makes it okay. I'm saying that I get it, and I cant really blame her for it.

But I'm a Talimancer, so maybe I'm just personally biased.

[zeypher]

So you saying its better to not do anything. Atleast have the willingness to try. Hell if you choose the quarians legion trys to stop you cause his people mattered, it was important enough for to kill and die for. Even wrex knows shepard is dangerous but he still tries.
Tali doesnt

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Ryzaki wrote...

Banul wrote...
Shes only an admiral because of her experience with the geth. Having that rank doesn't make you magically immune to shock and terror. When the fate of your species is in your hands and one of your greatest friends is about to betray you, lets see how well you do.

Having that rank means you have to be able to deal with your emotins quickly for the betterment of your people. Not immune not at all but if one has that position they should be able to push said emotions to the side and deal with them when extermination isn't about to occur if you do nothing but cry. Greatest friends? Not even. And yeah the fate of her species was in her hands and she decided to cry.

As for how well I'd do. Don't know. I'd hope I wouldn't stand there will millions of innocents die and cry instead.

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
It was mentioned plenty of time that
her admiral position was just a formality and the she wasn't choosen for
her military expertise, but for her knowledge on the Geth. She's hasn't
changed, she's the same as ME2, a horrible leader, but someone who
deeply cares for her species.

And that really doesn't make that less pathetic to me. She cares about her species...but instead of trying to save them she'd rather cry? 

Again, you don't understand shock. From someone who's been in a situation like this before (obviously not to such a extreme case) It's a weird feeling and people react different, some hostile like Legion and some Nervous and to shock to act like Tali, and some feel different. It has nothing to do with cowardness or not caring enough, something you can't comprehend.

Modifié par Khajiit Jzargo, 05 août 2012 - 05:24 .

[dreman9999]

Chaotic-Fusion wrote...

Tali is more than willing to kill and stop Legion when Shepard has her back. Really, if she had at least tried to stop the process I would respect her more. Right now it seems like she depends on Shepard's approval.

That's understandable. Last time I checked in ME2 her people craped over her and Shepard was the one who helped her with it.

[Ryzaki]

dreman9999 wrote...
He was a snake before the reaper war. Now he just a desprite man. The VS had no way to see he was the traitor. And the hospital visit is Shepard and the VS making peace with one another. It shepard convincing them to trust one another.

Uh...how does that stop making him a snake? VS knew he wasn't trustworthy not completely. As for the hospital visits they felt more like placation than trust. (And felt cheesy as heck).

[Chaotic-Fusion]

She jumps off a cliff anyway. She does throw her life away. She could have tried to take Legion with her. She could have saved her people. She would have failed, but she would have tried.

[agu123]

Ryzaki wrote...

agu123 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

agu123 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Gethsemane always even with peace. Qoarians got their Darwin Award they were so thirsty for. Tali killing herself like a spineless wimp instead of trying to fight for her people was just icing.

Yeah, she could for example, shoot the Geth ships with her shotgun direcly from the planet. Or she could attempt to kill Legion and instantly be stopped by Shepard.

Infantry is useless when the conflict occurs in space. Tali doesn't do anything because she can't do anything.

Yeah it's not like Legion's uploading the code right next to her and killing him won't stop the code. Also Legion has enough spine to fight Tali and Shepard (he also loses and would've been fairly aware of his terrible odds but when the alternative is extinction of your race small odds are better than zero odds) why doesn't she for someone who values her people so highly she's sure quick to stand there and go QQ.

She could attempt to attack Legion. She'd get killed by Shepard sure but she could try there's always the chance that she'd succeed in killing Legion and saving her people. At least then she'd go out with some backbone.

Attacking Legion would result in her death at the hands of Shepard or Legion himself.

Or, she could attack Shepard, who's probably the only person gaining help against the Reapers from every race. It doesn't seem like a good idea, does it? It only shows that Tali realizes her people are out of the game, and unlike Legion that attacks them both, she doesn't put the survival of her species on top of everything.

Could result.  There's always a chance she'd manage to take him out before Shep interferred no matter how slim. Hell if she launched herself at Legion and tried to take them both off the cliff I'd respect her more.

So she instead allows Shep to resign them to death and does nothing to stop it. She doesn't have to kill Shepard to stop the upload. And the Geth are not the deciding factor in the Reaper war (nor ar the Quarians for that matter). There is no putting her survival of the species over everything by fighting for their right to live. Not to mention that's perfectly natural behavior and she's only too willing to let Shep to kill the Geth for her people. She's just unwilling to attempt it herself. And I can't respect that.

I don't think that's it.

Tali has been with Shepard since the beginning, since she was a "kid on her pilgrimage". He's the guy who gives the orders, she's the soldier who trusts his judgement. To be betrayed by Shepard (because that's what you're doing if you side with the Geth, you're betraying the species you decided to help a few hours earlier) would be awful for her. However, if she actually trusts Shepard's judgement on the matter, killing Legion while he's making the Geth stronger would be incredibly selfish because Shepard thinks that with the Geth on their side, the organics would stand a better chance against the Reapers.

While Tali may or may not understand this, Legion doesn't for sure. He's willing to sacrifice both the Quarians and Shepard (and probably the other organics who depend on Shepard's mission as well) to ensure that his species could live.

Modifié par agu123, 05 août 2012 - 05:27 .

[Zeroth Angel]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

The reason Tali didn't try to do anything is because Legion cheated; it jumped from having 40% of the code downloaded straight to 100.

Seriously though, yeah, it might be OOC, but that's all the more reason not to choose it. Just like Wrex's incredibly stupid attempt to kill Shepard on the Citadel.

Hey! It is not Wrex's mistake that BW decided to use cutscene logic on him.

[dreman9999]

Ryzaki wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
How do you not understand that Shepard would stop Tali if she even attemts to stop Legion. Legion can be hacked or one shotted by Tali far ranged. No matter what she would have to go through Shepard to get to LEgion. She would fail.

Shep's back was turned to her. It just takes one stab in the right place to stop Legion (even if only temporary). Though yes she'd most likely fail it's still a better chance than her standing their crying. That's the point. Legion also was going to fail. It was a better chance than him standing there doing nothing!

hahahahah.... This is commader Shepard. We all know how quiclkly Shepard can react. She would not have the chance  to kill Legion no matter what.

[Ryzaki]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Banul wrote...
Shes only an admiral because of her experience with the geth. Having that rank doesn't make you magically immune to shock and terror. When the fate of your species is in your hands and one of your greatest friends is about to betray you, lets see how well you do.

Having that rank means you have to be able to deal with your emotins quickly for the betterment of your people. Not immune not at all but if one has that position they should be able to push said emotions to the side and deal with them when extermination isn't about to occur if you do nothing but cry. Greatest friends? Not even. And yeah the fate of her species was in her hands and she decided to cry.

As for how well I'd do. Don't know. I'd hope I wouldn't stand there will millions of innocents die and cry instead.

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
It was mentioned plenty of time that
her admiral position was just a formality and the she wasn't choosen for
her military expertise, but for her knowledge on the Geth. She's hasn't
changed, she's the same as ME2, a horrible leader, but someone who
deeply cares for her species.

And that really doesn't make that less pathetic to me. She cares about her species...but instead of trying to save them she'd rather cry? 

Again, you don't understand shock. From someone who's been in a situation like this before (obviously not to such a extreme case) It's a weird feeling and people react different, some hostile like Legion and some Nervous and to shock to act like Tali, and some feel different. It has nothing to do with cowardness or not caring enough, something you can't comprehend.

Nice of you to assume I've never been in shock. I have I got over fairly quickly that's what you do when you want to survive. If you stand there and cry I have no respect for you. At all. It's pathetic. If millions of lives weren't counting on your action sure but people are relying on you to live and you'd rather cry. Pathetic. I'll see it as pathetic.

[Ledgend1221]

The Quarians deserve to die.
They spent all this time doing stupid **** against the Geth and can't handle it.

[Ryzaki]

Chaotic-Fusion wrote...

She jumps off a cliff anyway. She does throw her life away. She could have tried to take Legion with her. She could have saved her people. She would have failed, but she would have tried.

This.

[dreman9999]

Ryzaki wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
He was a snake before the reaper war. Now he just a desprite man. The VS had no way to see he was the traitor. And the hospital visit is Shepard and the VS making peace with one another. It shepard convincing them to trust one another.

Uh...how does that stop making him a snake? VS knew he wasn't trustworthy not completely. As for the hospital visits they felt more like placation than trust. (And felt cheesy as heck).

Being a snake does not mean your a traitor. 

[Ryzaki]

dreman9999 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
How do you not understand that Shepard would stop Tali if she even attemts to stop Legion. Legion can be hacked or one shotted by Tali far ranged. No matter what she would have to go through Shepard to get to LEgion. She would fail.

Shep's back was turned to her. It just takes one stab in the right place to stop Legion (even if only temporary). Though yes she'd most likely fail it's still a better chance than her standing their crying. That's the point. Legion also was going to fail. It was a better chance than him standing there doing nothing!

hahahahah.... This is commader Shepard. We all know how quiclkly Shepard can react. She would not have the chance  to kill Legion no matter what.

Yeah that's why Kai Leng kills Thane with Shep and 3 other people staring at him while having several clear shots the whole time. Shep's not the sharpest knife in the rack.

[Banul]

Ryzaki wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Banul wrote...
Shes only an admiral because of her experience with the geth. Having that rank doesn't make you magically immune to shock and terror. When the fate of your species is in your hands and one of your greatest friends is about to betray you, lets see how well you do.

Having that rank means you have to be able to deal with your emotins quickly for the betterment of your people. Not immune not at all but if one has that position they should be able to push said emotions to the side and deal with them when extermination isn't about to occur if you do nothing but cry. Greatest friends? Not even. And yeah the fate of her species was in her hands and she decided to cry.

As for how well I'd do. Don't know. I'd hope I wouldn't stand there will millions of innocents die and cry instead.

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
It was mentioned plenty of time that
her admiral position was just a formality and the she wasn't choosen for
her military expertise, but for her knowledge on the Geth. She's hasn't
changed, she's the same as ME2, a horrible leader, but someone who
deeply cares for her species.

And that really doesn't make that less pathetic to me. She cares about her species...but instead of trying to save them she'd rather cry? 

Again, you don't understand shock. From someone who's been in a situation like this before (obviously not to such a extreme case) It's a weird feeling and people react different, some hostile like Legion and some Nervous and to shock to act like Tali, and some feel different. It has nothing to do with cowardness or not caring enough, something you can't comprehend.

Nice of you to assume I've never been in shock. I have I got over fairly quickly that's what you do when you want to survive. If you stand there and cry I have no respect for you. At all. It's pathetic. If millions of lives weren't counting on your action sure but people are relying on you to live and you'd rather cry. Pathetic. I'll see it as pathetic.

[Ryzaki]

agu123 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

agu123 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

agu123 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Gethsemane always even with peace. Qoarians got their Darwin Award they were so thirsty for. Tali killing herself like a spineless wimp instead of trying to fight for her people was just icing.

Yeah, she could for example, shoot the Geth ships with her shotgun direcly from the planet. Or she could attempt to kill Legion and instantly be stopped by Shepard.

Infantry is useless when the conflict occurs in space. Tali doesn't do anything because she can't do anything.

Yeah it's not like Legion's uploading the code right next to her and killing him won't stop the code. Also Legion has enough spine to fight Tali and Shepard (he also loses and would've been fairly aware of his terrible odds but when the alternative is extinction of your race small odds are better than zero odds) why doesn't she for someone who values her people so highly she's sure quick to stand there and go QQ.

She could attempt to attack Legion. She'd get killed by Shepard sure but she could try there's always the chance that she'd succeed in killing Legion and saving her people. At least then she'd go out with some backbone.

Attacking Legion would result in her death at the hands of Shepard or Legion himself.

Or, she could attack Shepard, who's probably the only person gaining help against the Reapers from every race. It doesn't seem like a good idea, does it? It only shows that Tali realizes her people are out of the game, and unlike Legion that attacks them both, she doesn't put the survival of her species on top of everything.

Could result.  There's always a chance she'd manage to take him out before Shep interferred no matter how slim. Hell if she launched herself at Legion and tried to take them both off the cliff I'd respect her more.

So she instead allows Shep to resign them to death and does nothing to stop it. She doesn't have to kill Shepard to stop the upload. And the Geth are not the deciding factor in the Reaper war (nor ar the Quarians for that matter). There is no putting her survival of the species over everything by fighting for their right to live. Not to mention that's perfectly natural behavior and she's only too willing to let Shep to kill the Geth for her people. She's just unwilling to attempt it herself. And I can't respect that.

I don't think that's it.

Tali has been with Shepard since the beginning, since she was a "kid on her pilgrimage". He's the guy who gives the orders, she's the soldier who trusts his judgement. To be betrayed by Shepard (because that's what you're doing if you side with the Geth, you're betraying the species you decided to help a few hours earlier) would be awful for her. However, if she actually trusts Shepard's judgement on the matter, killing Legion while he's making the Geth stronger would be incredibly selfish because Shepard thinks they stand a better chance against the Reapers.

While Tali may or may not understand this, Legion doesn't for sure. He's willing to sacrifice both the Quarians and Shepard (and probably the other organics who depend on Shepard's mission as well) to ensure that his species could live.

So she's instead spineless and dependant on Shepard to make her decisions for her? I find this worse.

@Banul: Cute. So you'd have respect for a member of gov't who let your family be slaughtered by an opposing force and do nothing to stop them? And then kills himself? You'd have respect for this person?

Modifié par Ryzaki, 05 août 2012 - 05:29 .

[Conniving_Eagle]

dreman9999 wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

agu123 wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

"Upload the code Legion"

"But you're going to kill my people!"

"Deal with it."

"Bu-bu-bu-bu-"

"Upload 100% complete. Personality dissemination required."

Comitting suicide was out of emotion, standing there and doing nothing was out of stupidity.

If Tali had attempted to kill you, you'd probably add it to your list of reasons to kill the Quarians.

Killing Shepard doesn't save her people, killing Legion does.

She would have to kill Shepard to get to legion.

Not if she tried to shoot Legion first.

[Someone With Mass]

Hey, good news! You don't need the Crucible. You can just charge blindly at the Reapers with everything you got, because there's a very, very, very, very slim chance that you'll win. Using the Crucible is just a sign of a weak and easily manipulated character for everyone involved.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 05 août 2012 - 05:30 .

[dreman9999]

Chaotic-Fusion wrote...

She jumps off a cliff anyway. She does throw her life away. She could have tried to take Legion with her. She could have saved her people. She would have failed, but she would have tried.

1. Legion is way heavier then tali..... Her trying the push Legion over the side of the cliff would be like watching her run into a wall.

2. Shepard would grab her before she tries to any way.

[Chaotic-Fusion]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Hey, good news! You don't need the Crucible. You can just charge blindly at the Reapers with everything you got, because there's a very, very, very, very slim chance that you'll win. Using the Crucible is just as sign of a weak and easily manipulated character for everyone involved.

That's such an incredibly bad analogy it makes my head hurt.

[Ryzaki]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Hey, good news! You don't need the Crucible. You can just charge blindly at the Reapers with everything you got, because there's a very, very, very, very slim chance that you'll win. Using the Crucible is just as sign of a weak and easily manipulated character for everyone involved.

/facepalm

The Reapers were winning the war. THe Crucible is the only chance. (And I say this as a refuser/destroyer) using the Crucible isn't a sign of weakeness. It's use the Crucible or die. There is no other option. Shep fights for others survival.

And Tali kills herself ANYWAY her death clearly wasn't a part of the equation. Only difference is she dies useless and pathetically by doing nothing but crying until she kills herself.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 05 août 2012 - 05:31 .