430 réponses à ce sujet

[AxStapleton]

Well, the poll suggests that people are just as split on this as the replies to the thread.

Take that as you will.

Modifié par AxStapleton, 05 août 2012 - 05:33 .

[dreman9999]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

agu123 wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

"Upload the code Legion"

"But you're going to kill my people!"

"Deal with it."

"Bu-bu-bu-bu-"

"Upload 100% complete. Personality dissemination required."

Comitting suicide was out of emotion, standing there and doing nothing was out of stupidity.

If Tali had attempted to kill you, you'd probably add it to your list of reasons to kill the Quarians.

Killing Shepard doesn't save her people, killing Legion does.

She would have to kill Shepard to get to legion.

Not if she tried to shoot Legion first.

Geth have very powerful Kinetic barriers. She would not get though half of legions before Shepard stops her. She can only one shot legion close range.

Modifié par dreman9999, 05 août 2012 - 05:32 .

[agu123]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

agu123 wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

"Upload the code Legion"

"But you're going to kill my people!"

"Deal with it."

"Bu-bu-bu-bu-"

"Upload 100% complete. Personality dissemination required."

Comitting suicide was out of emotion, standing there and doing nothing was out of stupidity.

If Tali had attempted to kill you, you'd probably add it to your list of reasons to kill the Quarians.

Killing Shepard doesn't save her people, killing Legion does.

Uh? Shepard's decision would have an enormous impact on the outcome of the Reaper conflict. Why would Shepard just let her kill Legion if he thinks the Quarians are less useful than the Geth against the Reapers?

She would have to attack both of them, like Legion.

[Ryzaki]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

zeypher wrote...

Even wrex knows shepard is dangerous but he still tries.

Wrex attacking Shepard on the Citadel is incredibly stupid, and in no way helps his people in the slightest.

Wimbini wrote...

Hey! It is not Wrex's mistake that BW decided to use cutscene logic on him.

It's Wrex's mistake to walk into an area filled with C-Sec and think that trying to kill someone would turn out well for him.

TBF though Wrex just wanted Shep dead at this point. To me it not being logical makes sense. He was in a blood rage. He wanted Shep dead no matter how slim the chance.

[Ryzaki]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Yeah that's why Kai Leng kills Thane with Shep and 3 other people staring at him while having several clear shots the whole time.

That's pretty much the same situation as you've got here with Tali, really. And the reason why for both is the same; Bioware wanted a dramatic scene, and said "f**k logic". There's really nothing more to read into than that.

A lot of weird things with ME3 can be explained along similar lines.

Honestly I was expecting Tali to fight Shepard back and then SHep gets a shot interrupt like with Mordin (maybe the shot shatters her helmet and you see her bloody face before she dies). At least that was my thoughts pre-release.

But as the scene goes ugh just ugh.

They can be sadly. Cutscene Incompetence to the fullest.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 05 août 2012 - 05:35 .

[dreman9999]

Ryzaki wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

zeypher wrote...

Even wrex knows shepard is dangerous but he still tries.

Wrex attacking Shepard on the Citadel is incredibly stupid, and in no way helps his people in the slightest.

Wimbini wrote...

Hey! It is not Wrex's mistake that BW decided to use cutscene logic on him.

It's Wrex's mistake to walk into an area filled with C-Sec and think that trying to kill someone would turn out well for him.

TBF though Wrex just wanted Shep dead at this point. To me it not being logical makes sense. He was in a blood rage. He wanted Shep dead no matter how slim the chance.

Not a blood rage.. It was Honor that made Wrex attack Shepard.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Ryzaki wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Banul wrote...
Shes only an admiral because of her experience with the geth. Having that rank doesn't make you magically immune to shock and terror. When the fate of your species is in your hands and one of your greatest friends is about to betray you, lets see how well you do.

Having that rank means you have to be able to deal with your emotins quickly for the betterment of your people. Not immune not at all but if one has that position they should be able to push said emotions to the side and deal with them when extermination isn't about to occur if you do nothing but cry. Greatest friends? Not even. And yeah the fate of her species was in her hands and she decided to cry.

As for how well I'd do. Don't know. I'd hope I wouldn't stand there will millions of innocents die and cry instead.

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
It was mentioned plenty of time that
her admiral position was just a formality and the she wasn't choosen for
her military expertise, but for her knowledge on the Geth. She's hasn't
changed, she's the same as ME2, a horrible leader, but someone who
deeply cares for her species.

And that really doesn't make that less pathetic to me. She cares about her species...but instead of trying to save them she'd rather cry? 

Again, you don't understand shock. From someone who's been in a situation like this before (obviously not to such a extreme case) It's a weird feeling and people react different, some hostile like Legion and some Nervous and to shock to act like Tali, and some feel different. It has nothing to do with cowardness or not caring enough, something you can't comprehend.

Nice of you to assume I've never been in shock. I have I got over fairly quickly that's what you do when you want to survive. If you stand there and cry I have no respect for you. At all. It's pathetic. If millions of lives weren't counting on your action sure but people are relying on you to live and you'd rather cry. Pathetic. I'll see it as pathetic.

I'm not talking about regular shock and the only reason I'm saying you don't because you still don't get the point I'm trying to get you to understand. In a moment like that, it can even leave you feeling like you can't even move. You call it pathetic, I call it you can't understand how a person feels at that moment. A moment like that can leave a person feeling like they aren't able to move, they can get a panic attack (which if you had one, you know how bad they are), they can leave a person confuse and disoriented.

Again, it has nothing to do with her own will, or her being a coward, or anything of that sort. Tali would have gladly kill a Legion to end the war if the scenario was different, she has killed countless of geth with no remorsce. But the way the scenario was presented, left her in extreme awe. It's not pathetic, you should learn a bit more on phychology then maybe you can understand better.

[dreman9999]

@Cthulhu42 

The sexy bot would of picked destroy because she loves and respects Joker.

Modifié par dreman9999, 05 août 2012 - 05:36 .

[Ryzaki]

Chaotic-Fusion wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Hey, good news! You don't need the Crucible. You can just charge blindly at the Reapers with everything you got, because there's a very, very, very, very slim chance that you'll win. Using the Crucible is just as sign of a weak and easily manipulated character for everyone involved.

That's such an incredibly bad analogy it makes my head hurt.

Seriously. Though does this mean Tali'd pick refuse? 

[Someone With Mass]

Chaotic-Fusion wrote...

That's such an incredibly bad analogy it makes my head hurt.

Yeah, that's how stupid it is.

Oh, at least you tried.

-Gee, thanks, mister! That'll really count for anything when I'm dead!

And Wrex approaching Shepard on the Citadel later? Even worse, because killing Shepard won't cure the genophage. It might feel good, but then what? You're still stuck with the genophage and you still suck.

It's such shortsightedness that really annoys me.

[Ryzaki]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

zeypher wrote...

Even wrex knows shepard is dangerous but he still tries.

Wrex attacking Shepard on the Citadel is incredibly stupid, and in no way helps his people in the slightest.

Wimbini wrote...

Hey! It is not Wrex's mistake that BW decided to use cutscene logic on him.

It's Wrex's mistake to walk into an area filled with C-Sec and think that trying to kill someone would turn out well for him.

TBF though Wrex just wanted Shep dead at this point. To me it not being logical makes sense. He was in a blood rage. He wanted Shep dead no matter how slim the chance.

i'm not understanding how "Wrex is in a blood rage" and "Tali's in shock" to be very different. They're both getting overwhlemed with emotion to the point which you don't make rational decisions.

Wrex's decision at worse leaves him dead. (His clan withdraws support for the war) .Tali's decision leaves all the Quarians that were fighting dead and then she kills herself. That's the difference. Wrex's people (the ones he are raging for) aren't going to be killed while he does nothing. I

Modifié par Ryzaki, 05 août 2012 - 05:40 .

[GreyLycanTrope]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Hey, good news! You don't need the Crucible. You can just charge blindly at the Reapers with everything you got, because there's a very, very, very, very slim chance that you'll win. Using the Crucible is just a sign of a weak and easily manipulated character for everyone involved.

*picked refuse* Well yeah

[Ryzaki]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Banul wrote...
Shes only an admiral because of her experience with the geth. Having that rank doesn't make you magically immune to shock and terror. When the fate of your species is in your hands and one of your greatest friends is about to betray you, lets see how well you do.

Having that rank means you have to be able to deal with your emotins quickly for the betterment of your people. Not immune not at all but if one has that position they should be able to push said emotions to the side and deal with them when extermination isn't about to occur if you do nothing but cry. Greatest friends? Not even. And yeah the fate of her species was in her hands and she decided to cry.

As for how well I'd do. Don't know. I'd hope I wouldn't stand there will millions of innocents die and cry instead.

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
It was mentioned plenty of time that
her admiral position was just a formality and the she wasn't choosen for
her military expertise, but for her knowledge on the Geth. She's hasn't
changed, she's the same as ME2, a horrible leader, but someone who
deeply cares for her species.

And that really doesn't make that less pathetic to me. She cares about her species...but instead of trying to save them she'd rather cry? 

Again, you don't understand shock. From someone who's been in a situation like this before (obviously not to such a extreme case) It's a weird feeling and people react different, some hostile like Legion and some Nervous and to shock to act like Tali, and some feel different. It has nothing to do with cowardness or not caring enough, something you can't comprehend.

Nice of you to assume I've never been in shock. I have I got over fairly quickly that's what you do when you want to survive. If you stand there and cry I have no respect for you. At all. It's pathetic. If millions of lives weren't counting on your action sure but people are relying on you to live and you'd rather cry. Pathetic. I'll see it as pathetic.

I'm not talking about regular shock and the only reason I'm saying you don't because you still don't get the point I'm trying to get you to understand. In a moment like that, it can even leave you feeling like you can't even move. You call it pathetic, I call it you can't understand how a person feels at that moment. A moment like that can leave a person feeling like they aren't able to move, they can get a panic attack (which if you had one, you know how bad they are), they can leave a person confuse and disoriented.

Again, it has nothing to do with her own will, or her being a coward, or anything of that sort. Tali would have gladly kill a Legion to end the war if the scenario was different, she has killed countless of geth with no remorsce. But the way the scenario was presented, left her in extreme awe. It's not pathetic, you should learn a bit more on phychology then maybe you can understand better.

Millions of people will die if she doesn't move. MILLIONS. So yes I'll see it as pathetic. If you disagree that's fine. People aren't made never disagree.

As for psychology *shrugs* I'm sure that'll be a great comfort to the few surviving Quarians that learn Tali did nothing to stop Shep and the Geth and then offed herself.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 05 août 2012 - 05:41 .

[Pitznik]

[quote]dreman9999 wrote...

[quote]Pitznik wrote...

[quote]Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

[quote]Pitznik wrote...

[quote]Vulsamee wrote...

I don't consider the heretics in this mainly because they weren't considered "true Geth", but if you wanted to add them, they're basically indoctrinated-- would you also blame the Quarians if they were indoctrinated by the Reapers? It's the Reaper indoctrination affect, and not something of their own choice, which is why I leave out the heretics from ME1 and ME2.[/quote]
They weren't indoctrinated. They worshipped the Reapers in ME1, out of their own will. Even Legion doesn't say they were indoctrinated, just they decided by themselves. I don't think synthetics even can be indoctrinated.

[/quote]This is ridiculous. Synthetics can be indoctrinated by being rewritten, that's what happen with the heretics, they joined the Reapers in an attempt to survive.
[/quote]
Heretics weren't indoctrinated. Ever.  They wanted to forcibly reprogram the true Geth, yet they weren't reprogrammed themselves.

[/quote]They let themselve be rewritten, those indctrination.
[/quoteExcept they did not. Both Codex and Legion are quite clear about how Sovereign approached the Geth. They just picked the Reaper technology over the life of organics. They weren't manipulated, but took the deal they have been offered.

[Conniving_Eagle]

dreman9999 wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

agu123 wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

"Upload the code Legion"

"But you're going to kill my people!"

"Deal with it."

"Bu-bu-bu-bu-"

"Upload 100% complete. Personality dissemination required."

Comitting suicide was out of emotion, standing there and doing nothing was out of stupidity.

If Tali had attempted to kill you, you'd probably add it to your list of reasons to kill the Quarians.

Killing Shepard doesn't save her people, killing Legion does.

She would have to kill Shepard to get to legion.

Not if she tried to shoot Legion first.

Geth have very powerful Kinetic barriers. She would not get though half of legions before Shepard stops her. She can only one shot legion close range.

She's pretty close to Legion. And come on, we know that's a flawed argument. Kinetic Barriers can't do **** against plot-piercing rounds. Just look at the Citadel Coup. Also, I don't think Legion would just continue uploading when his platform was at risk of destruction.

Modifié par Conniving_Eagle, 05 août 2012 - 05:40 .

[Someone With Mass]

Cthulhu42 wrote...
i'm not understanding how "Wrex is in a blood rage" and "Tali's in shock" to be very different. They're both getting overwhlemed with emotion to the point which you don't make rational decisions. 

You see, it counts, because Wrex wanted to "solve" his problem with violence directed towards a certain individual that won't fix anything while Tali is in shock and doesn't do anything.

The whole "action, not words" thing is so pointless, because the outcome will still be the same in the end.

[Banul]

Ryzaki wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

zeypher wrote...

Even wrex knows shepard is dangerous but he still tries.

Wrex attacking Shepard on the Citadel is incredibly stupid, and in no way helps his people in the slightest.

Wimbini wrote...

Hey! It is not Wrex's mistake that BW decided to use cutscene logic on him.

It's Wrex's mistake to walk into an area filled with C-Sec and think that trying to kill someone would turn out well for him.

TBF though Wrex just wanted Shep dead at this point. To me it not being logical makes sense. He was in a blood rage. He wanted Shep dead no matter how slim the chance.

i'm not understanding how "Wrex is in a blood rage" and "Tali's in shock" to be very different. They're both getting overwhlemed with emotion to the point which you don't make rational decisions.

Wrex's decision at worse leaves him dead. (His clan withdraws support for the war) .Tali's decision leaves all the Quarians that were fighting dead and then she kills herself. That's the difference.

Doesn't matter. Both made a bad call based on emotion. That happens to people, sometimes.

[dreman9999]

@Pitznik 

Do you understand that allow does not mean manipulated? How can I say this agein...The heritics allowed them selve to be indoctrinated. The were not tricked or forced into it. They were willing indoctrinated servents. They are nit the first. Javik tells you of others races like this.

Modifié par dreman9999, 05 août 2012 - 05:42 .

[Chaotic-Fusion]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...
i'm not understanding how "Wrex is in a blood rage" and "Tali's in shock" to be very different. They're both getting overwhlemed with emotion to the point which you don't make rational decisions. 

You see, it counts, because Wrex wanted to "solve" his problem with violence directed towards a certain individual that won't fix anything while Tali is in shock and doesn't do anything.

The whole "action, not words" thing is so pointless, because the outcome will still be the same in the end.

The point is, even if Wrex killed Shepard it wouldn't cure the genophage. If Tali managed to kill Legion or at least damage him enough that there's a significant delay when he is uploading the code, she would have saved her people. If you side with the quarians Tali kills Legion in one blow. She could have tried.

[Ryzaki]

Banul wrote...

Doesn't matter. Both made a bad call based on emotion. That happens to people, sometimes.

And Tali's results in the extermination of a race. If you don't see that as worse that's fine. I do.

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Wrex's decision at worse leaves him dead.

Wrex's
leadership is incredibly important to the krogan. His death would
result in all his reforms and advances being undone, and the effects on
the krogan would be very high. When he throws his life away suicididally
attacking Shepard, he's pretty much throwing away the last hope for a
future for the krogan.

Not if Eve's still alive. There are other Krogan who would be like him. Might not be soon, and it might be a long and difficult road or heck it might not even happen at all. But there's still a chance they'll have a future despite his death.

Besides you really thing the Krogan are still gonna follow him after he was fooled by aliens? He probably lost all respect and standing after it was found out.

Chaotic-Fusion wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...
i'm
not understanding how "Wrex is in a blood rage" and "Tali's in shock"
to be very different. They're both getting overwhlemed with emotion to
the point which you don't make rational decisions. 

You
see, it counts, because Wrex wanted to "solve" his problem with
violence directed towards a certain individual that won't fix anything
while Tali is in shock and doesn't do anything.

The whole "action, not words" thing is so pointless, because the outcome will still be the same in the end.

The
point is, even if Wrex killed Shepard it wouldn't cure the genophage.
If Tali managed to kill Legion or at least damage him enough that
there's a significant delay when he is uploading the code, she would
have saved her people. If you side with the quarians Tali kills Legion
in one blow. She could have tried.

Thank you. A slim chance is better than no chance.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 05 août 2012 - 05:44 .

[dreman9999]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

agu123 wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

"Upload the code Legion"

"But you're going to kill my people!"

"Deal with it."

"Bu-bu-bu-bu-"

"Upload 100% complete. Personality dissemination required."

Comitting suicide was out of emotion, standing there and doing nothing was out of stupidity.

If Tali had attempted to kill you, you'd probably add it to your list of reasons to kill the Quarians.

Killing Shepard doesn't save her people, killing Legion does.

She would have to kill Shepard to get to legion.

Not if she tried to shoot Legion first.

Geth have very powerful Kinetic barriers. She would not get though half of legions before Shepard stops her. She can only one shot legion close range.

She's pretty close to Legion. And come on, we know that's a flawed argument. Kinetic Barriers can't do **** against plot-piercing rounds. Just look at the Citadel Coup. Also, I don't think Legion would just continue uploading when his platform was at risk of destruction.

I'm sorry. But thems the brakes.... Even with out kintic barriers Legion is not going to die fron one shot. Soory, but Tali is not going to beable to stop Legion.

[clennon8]

I suspect there's a disparity between what people say they would do, and what they would actually do if put in the situation of choosing between the quarians and the geth.