430 réponses à ce sujet

[agu123]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...
1.) The Quarians tried to kill me, and decided to go to war even after I told them not to. If they want to die, it is their own damn fault. 

Define "The Quarians".

Gerrel gave that order and despite being reluctant, Raan decided it was the best decision. Those are two individuals. The Migrant Fleet is composed of 50K+ ships which are the home of millions of Quarians. Unlike the Geth, they aren't a collective mind. Some of them don't give a crap about the war, some of them may be children that don't even know how to use a weapon. Look at Tali and Koris, or at the latter's fleet for instance.

This is like saying the Heretics attempted to kill me. The Heretics are Geth. Therefore, the Geth tried to kill me.

[Chaotic-Fusion]

Zardoc wrote...

Chaotic-Fusion wrote...

Zardoc wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Depends on which Shepard I'm playing. If it was my prime, and if Tali killed herself because I sided with the geth, I would jump over that cliff with her. Every other Shepard I have would side with the geth being they are the victims and more reliable in combat then the quarians.

Are you guys serious?

No, obviously. They Quarians, who attack Rannoch with the Reaper war looming in sight, who tried to exterminate the geth on account of a planet, are the victims.

Oh, but the machines that committed genocide and sided with the Reapers not once but twice are?

The first time. A splinter group. I have as much right to judge all the Geth on that episode as I have the right to consider all Quarians clanless thieves on account of a few. So no, I won't consider that.
The second time they sided with the reapers because the Quarian damaged their Dyson Sphere and would have killed them all without hesitation. I assure that in the same situation, every race including the Quarians would have done the same. It was self preservation. I don't really want to stop the Quarians if they want to win a Darwin award.

[JesseLee202]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

1.) The Quarians tried to kill me, and decided to go to war even after I told them not to. If they want to die, it is their own damn fault. 

2.) 'The Geth only acted in self-defense. Do we deserve death?'

1.) So all those Geth trying to kill you were doing what exactly? Just the fact they change sides with a simple hack should worry you.

You expect the galaxy to bend to your Shep's will just because... you said so?

2.) Yes, they wiped out 99% of the Quarian population. That is beyond "self-defense".

To answer OP, I save Quarians.

[dreman9999]

Zardoc wrote...

Chaotic-Fusion wrote...

Zardoc wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Depends on which Shepard I'm playing. If it was my prime, and if Tali killed herself because I sided with the geth, I would jump over that cliff with her. Every other Shepard I have would side with the geth being they are the victims and more reliable in combat then the quarians.

Are you guys serious?

No, obviously. They Quarians, who attack Rannoch with the Reaper war looming in sight, who tried to exterminate the geth on account of a planet, are the victims.

Oh, but the machines that committed genocide and sided with the Reapers not once but twice are?

The Heritic geth already got what was coming to them back in ME2. These geth were forced into reapers hand by being forced in a corner. And these geth after being relased agreed to help me stop the reapers...And don't tell me the reaper code that was uploaded to them makes them untrust werthy. If you feel that way then you should rip EDI out of your ship now.

[AxStapleton]

agu123 wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...
1.) The Quarians tried to kill me, and decided to go to war even after I told them not to. If they want to die, it is their own damn fault. 

Define "The Quarians".

Gerrel gave that order and despite being reluctant, Raan decided it was the best decision. Those are two individuals. The Migrant Fleet is composed of 50K+ ships which are the home of millions of Quarians. Unlike the Geth, they aren't a collective mind. Some of them don't give a crap about the war, some of them may be children that don't even know how to use a weapon. Look at Tali and Koris, or at the latter's fleet for instance.

This is like saying the Heretics attempted to kill me. The Heretics are Geth. Therefore, the Geth tried to kill me.

This was the point I was attempting to make.

[Zardoc]

dreman9999 wrote...

Zardoc wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Depends on which Shepard I'm playing. If it was my prime, and if Tali killed herself because I sided with the geth, I would jump over that cliff with her. Every other Shepard I have would side with the geth being they are the victims and more reliable in combat then the quarians.

Are you guys serious?

Let's see...

The moment the became sentent, the quarians tried to kill them.
Every time the geth offer peace, the quarians attack them.
The geth were willing to help with the reapers....THE BLEEDING QUARIAN ADMERAL BOARD DESIDE IT BEST TO TRY AND KILL THEM AND FORCE THEM INTO THE REAPERS HANDS!!!!!
The we get Legion to try and help us with it and suddenly they want to dicect  it/them.

I'm sorry but the quarians forced this war...Anything the geth do to protect themselves is justified. If you offer peace and the other side just keep attacking and you can stop them by killing them off, what would you do?

1. They tried to shut them down. Like one shuts down a malfunctioning computer.
2. The geth never offered peace. Matter of fact, they never contacted anyone. The only persons who know the geth weren't actually evil machines are Shepard and Tali. Little known fact, after the end of the Morning War, the Council sent a small team of diplomats into the Perseus Veil. Guess what happened to them.
3. See 2.
4. Only Xen wants to disect Legion. And she is obviously a bit mad.

 
The first time. A splinter group. I have as much right to judge all the Geth on that episode as I have the right to consider all Quarians clanless thieves on account of a few. So no, I won't consider that.
The second time they sided with the reapers because the Quarian damaged their Dyson Sphere and would have killed them all without hesitation. I assure that in the same situation, every race including the Quarians would have done the same. It was self preservation.

 

Perhaps. The fact they committed genocide still stands, as does the fact that they never actually told anyone they wanted peace.

Modifié par Zardoc, 05 août 2012 - 03:37 .

[Someone With Mass]

dreman9999 wrote...

Depends on which Shepard I'm playing. If it was my prime, and if Tali killed herself because I sided with the geth, I would jump over that cliff with her. Every other Shepard I have would side with the geth being they are the victims and more reliable in combat then the quarians.

Uh, you do know that the geth literally killed 99% of the quarian race, right? Among many defenseless elderly, sick and children.

Both sides have done things wrong, but don't try to make the geth look like the victims, because they're really not. If they didn't want the war, maybe they should have done something about it, like trying to communicate with the quarians and negotiate instead of sitting on their asses for three centuries.

Sure, it was completely wrong by the quarians to destroy the Dyson bubble, I admit that, but that's small potatoes compared to what the geth did.

[crazyaz]

If I can weigh in on the whole "they sided with the reapers" thing. They clearly mentioned it was that or "be exterminated" which raises a problem for me. If **** goes downhill with the battle, would they switch sides to prevent extermination?

[dreman9999]

JesseLee202 wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

1.) The Quarians tried to kill me, and decided to go to war even after I told them not to. If they want to die, it is their own damn fault. 

2.) 'The Geth only acted in self-defense. Do we deserve death?'

1.) So all those Geth trying to kill you were doing what exactly? Just the fact they change sides with a simple hack should worry you.

You expect the galaxy to bend to your Shep's will just because... you said so?

2.) Yes, they wiped out 99% of the Quarian population. That is beyond "self-defense".

To answer OP, I save Quarians.

1.Sorry, those Geth are now forced to attack by the reapers. Added we have Legion on our side help nagotiate peace with them.

2. Every ship the quarians had were geared to attack. Everyone. All the ships attacked. It's not the geth fault that the quarians forced their civilian to fight in a unprovoced war. Any thing the geth do in self defence is warrented because every quarian  was attacking. Every last one.

[Zardoc]

dreman9999 wrote...

JesseLee202 wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

1.) The Quarians tried to kill me, and decided to go to war even after I told them not to. If they want to die, it is their own damn fault. 

2.) 'The Geth only acted in self-defense. Do we deserve death?'

1.) So all those Geth trying to kill you were doing what exactly? Just the fact they change sides with a simple hack should worry you.

You expect the galaxy to bend to your Shep's will just because... you said so?

2.) Yes, they wiped out 99% of the Quarian population. That is beyond "self-defense".

To answer OP, I save Quarians.

1.Sorry, those Geth are now forced to attack by the reapers. Added we have Legion on our side help nagotiate peace with them.

2. Every ship the quarians had were geared to attack. Everyone. All the ships attacked. It's not the geth fault that the quarians forced their civilian to fight in a unprovoced war. Any thing the geth do in self defence is warrented because every quarian  was attacking. Every last one.

Morning War, ever heard of it?


Also, that bolded part? Yeah, not comment.

Modifié par Zardoc, 05 août 2012 - 03:40 .

[Conniving_Eagle]

AxStapleton wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

AxStapleton wrote...


 How would you feel if your computer suddenly started talking back to you?

The Quarians jumped the gun. I don't know who would immediately resort to destroying their computer if it started talking.

Willfully picking on a single line of my post.

Am I saying the Quarians were right? No. Besides we are not given an in depth timescale of how things happened so it is impossible to say whether they had gone to turn them off straight away. The response Legion makes to when  Shepard asks whether that was the first time a Geth asked whether it had a soul, it wasn't, so there may well have been a lag between the Geth's sentience and the Quarians action.

P.S. I wouldn't destroy my computer, I'd turn it off. Which is what the Quarians tried intitally.

It's a poor example to begin with. The Geth weren't doing something out of the ordinary, they were starting to think in a direction that the Quarians didn't want. When the Geth started questioning their existence, the Quarians tried to deacitivate them because they believed the geth would want independance. And by the Council's laws, AI are entitled to such rights.

It fits the Frankenstein scenario.

There's a nice quote by Arthur C. Clarke: "The higher the intelligence, the greater the degree of co-operativeness. If there is ever a war between men and machines, it is easy to guess who will start it.”

[JesseLee202]

Zardoc wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

JesseLee202 wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

1.) The Quarians tried to kill me, and decided to go to war even after I told them not to. If they want to die, it is their own damn fault. 

2.) 'The Geth only acted in self-defense. Do we deserve death?'

1.) So all those Geth trying to kill you were doing what exactly? Just the fact they change sides with a simple hack should worry you.

You expect the galaxy to bend to your Shep's will just because... you said so?

2.) Yes, they wiped out 99% of the Quarian population. That is beyond "self-defense".

To answer OP, I save Quarians.

1.Sorry, those Geth are now forced to attack by the reapers. Added we have Legion on our side help nagotiate peace with them.

2. Every ship the quarians had were geared to attack. Everyone. All the ships attacked. It's not the geth fault that the quarians forced their civilian to fight in a unprovoced war. Any thing the geth do in self defence is warrented because every quarian  was attacking. Every last one.

Morning War, ever heard of it?


Also, that bolded part? Yeah, not comment.

I don't think he has...

[Zardoc]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

AxStapleton wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

AxStapleton wrote...


 How would you feel if your computer suddenly started talking back to you?

The Quarians jumped the gun. I don't know who would immediately resort to destroying their computer if it started talking.

Willfully picking on a single line of my post.

Am I saying the Quarians were right? No. Besides we are not given an in depth timescale of how things happened so it is impossible to say whether they had gone to turn them off straight away. The response Legion makes to when  Shepard asks whether that was the first time a Geth asked whether it had a soul, it wasn't, so there may well have been a lag between the Geth's sentience and the Quarians action.

P.S. I wouldn't destroy my computer, I'd turn it off. Which is what the Quarians tried intitally.

It's a poor example to begin with. The Geth weren't doing something out of the ordinary, they were starting to think in a direction that the Quarians didn't want. When the Geth started questioning their existence, the Quarians tried to deacitivate them because they believed the geth would want independance. And by the Council's laws, AI are entitled to such rights.

It fits the Frankenstein scenario.

There's a nice quote by Arthur C. Clarke: "The higher the intelligence, the greater the degree of co-operativeness. If there is ever a war between men and machines, it is easy to guess who will start it.”

By council laws, AIs are forbidden. One more reason for the quarians to deactivate them.

[Chaotic-Fusion]

Zardoc wrote...
Perhaps. The fact they committed genocide still stands, as does the fact that they never actually told anyone they wanted peace.

The conditions for peace are having the Quarians stand down. The Geth commit genocide in self-defense, the Quarians to reclaim their planet. You do not need to convince the Geth to not kill the Quarians, you have to convince the Quarians to stand down.
The Geth are pacifists, we know that. So to convince people not to attack you have to tell them you want peace? I'd imagine not being aggressive would be enough.

[dreman9999]

Someone With Mass wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Depends on which Shepard I'm playing. If it was my prime, and if Tali killed herself because I sided with the geth, I would jump over that cliff with her. Every other Shepard I have would side with the geth being they are the victims and more reliable in combat then the quarians.

Uh, you do know that the geth literally killed 99% of the quarian race, right? Among many defenseless elderly, sick and children.

Both sides have done things wrong, but don't try to make the geth look like the victims, because they're really not. If they didn't want the war, maybe they should have done something about it, like trying to communicate with the quarians and negotiate instead of sitting on their asses for three centuries.

Sure, it was completely wrong by the quarians to destroy the Dyson bubble, I admit that, but that's small potatoes compared to what the geth did.

It's not the geth fault. How was the ones who brought them to war and armed them? Was it the geth?

Let me ask you this...If your in a war fighting and suddenly you see a child with a rocket lancher in hand ready to shot and kill you and your squad, would you let him? Would you kill that child to save yourself and your squad?

That's the same cancept with the geth.

[Gewehr_fr]

The Quarians, definitely.

While it is true that the Geth only acted in self defense; they're still machines to me and I could never choose to sacrifice a whole species of human beings to save them. Even in the assumption that Tali would side with the Geth, and kill herself if I choose the Quarians over them I would still destroy the Geth.

The fact that the Geth decide to side with the reapers, even if it was there only way to survive, disturbs me, too. 

Thanksfully I did not have to make that choice on my playthrough. 

Modifié par Gewehr_fr, 05 août 2012 - 03:43 .

[Samtheman63]

The war was the quarians fault, theres no question about that.

Did the geth go too far? maybe

[Conniving_Eagle]

dreman9999 wrote...

JesseLee202 wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

1.) The Quarians tried to kill me, and decided to go to war even after I told them not to. If they want to die, it is their own damn fault. 

2.) 'The Geth only acted in self-defense. Do we deserve death?'

1.) So all those Geth trying to kill you were doing what exactly? Just the fact they change sides with a simple hack should worry you.

You expect the galaxy to bend to your Shep's will just because... you said so?

2.) Yes, they wiped out 99% of the Quarian population. That is beyond "self-defense".

To answer OP, I save Quarians.

1.Sorry, those Geth are now forced to attack by the reapers. Added we have Legion on our side help nagotiate peace with them.

2. Every ship the quarians had were geared to attack. Everyone. All the ships attacked. It's not the geth fault that the quarians forced their civilian to fight in a unprovoced war. Any thing the geth do in self defence is warrented because every quarian  was attacking. Every last one.

Let's not forget that the Quarians weren't dragged into this war. The Admiralty Board would've be too conflicted to make a decision on going to war, it was the decision of the Conclave.

[JesseLee202]

Chaotic-Fusion wrote...

Zardoc wrote...
Perhaps. The fact they committed genocide still stands, as does the fact that they never actually told anyone they wanted peace.

The conditions for peace are having the Quarians stand down. The Geth commit genocide in self-defense, the Quarians to reclaim their planet. You do not need to convince the Geth to not kill the Quarians, you have to convince the Quarians to stand down.
The Geth are pacifists, we know that. So to convince people not to attack you have to tell them you want peace? I'd imagine not being aggressive would be enough.

MORNING WAR. Ever heard of it?

[dreman9999]

Zardoc wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

JesseLee202 wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

1.) The Quarians tried to kill me, and decided to go to war even after I told them not to. If they want to die, it is their own damn fault. 

2.) 'The Geth only acted in self-defense. Do we deserve death?'

1.) So all those Geth trying to kill you were doing what exactly? Just the fact they change sides with a simple hack should worry you.

You expect the galaxy to bend to your Shep's will just because... you said so?

2.) Yes, they wiped out 99% of the Quarian population. That is beyond "self-defense".

To answer OP, I save Quarians.

1.Sorry, those Geth are now forced to attack by the reapers. Added we have Legion on our side help nagotiate peace with them.

2. Every ship the quarians had were geared to attack. Everyone. All the ships attacked. It's not the geth fault that the quarians forced their civilian to fight in a unprovoced war. Any thing the geth do in self defence is warrented because every quarian  was attacking. Every last one.

Morning War, ever heard of it?


Also, that bolded part? Yeah, not comment.

You mean the first war the quarian tried to kill the geth.

Did you even know what happened in the morning war?

[Zardoc]

Chaotic-Fusion wrote...

Zardoc wrote...
Perhaps. The fact they committed genocide still stands, as does the fact that they never actually told anyone they wanted peace.

The conditions for peace are having the Quarians stand down. The Geth commit genocide in self-defense, the Quarians to reclaim their planet. You do not need to convince the Geth to not kill the Quarians, you have to convince the Quarians to stand down.
The Geth are pacifists, we know that. So to convince people not to attack you have to tell them you want peace? I'd imagine not being aggressive would be enough.

And again, the only people who ever learn that are Shepard and Tali.

And there is a fine line between defending oneself and committing genocide. The geth may have started with the former, but they ended up doing the latter. There is no justification for that.

[Someone With Mass]

dreman9999 wrote...
Let's see...

The moment the became sentent, the quarians tried to kill them.
Every time the geth offer peace, the quarians attack them.
The geth were willing to help with the reapers....THE BLEEDING QUARIAN ADMERAL BOARD DESIDE IT BEST TO TRY AND KILL THEM AND FORCE THEM INTO THE REAPERS HANDS!!!!!
The we get Legion to try and help us with it and suddenly they want to dicect  it/them.

I'm sorry but the quarians forced this war...Anything the geth do to protect themselves is justified. If you offer peace and the other side just keep attacking and you can stop them by killing them off, what would you do?

Dude, the geth admit that they barely knew what they were doing when they achieved sentience, which was even more of a reason for the quarians at the time to put them down.

If they want peace, why don't they just leave the Perseus Veil and find some uninhabited star system they can use to complete their Dyson bubble?

They're just asking for trouble by holding the ground that belongs to the quarians.

Not to mention that they can spend a lot more time traveling through space than organics can, since they don't need food or water.

This whole war could have been avoided so easily, it's not even funny.

[Chaotic-Fusion]

Zardoc wrote...
By council laws, AIs are forbidden. One more reason for the quarians to deactivate them.

One more reason for the Quarians to not have experimented with A.I technology in the first place. If you commit a mistake you should try to find a solution, the Quarians just wanted to hide the fact they screwed up by sweeping everything under the carpet.

Modifié par Chaotic-Fusion, 05 août 2012 - 03:45 .

[dreman9999]

JesseLee202 wrote...

Chaotic-Fusion wrote...

Zardoc wrote...
Perhaps. The fact they committed genocide still stands, as does the fact that they never actually told anyone they wanted peace.

The conditions for peace are having the Quarians stand down. The Geth commit genocide in self-defense, the Quarians to reclaim their planet. You do not need to convince the Geth to not kill the Quarians, you have to convince the Quarians to stand down.
The Geth are pacifists, we know that. So to convince people not to attack you have to tell them you want peace? I'd imagine not being aggressive would be enough.

MORNING WAR. Ever heard of it?

You clear haven't.  Because that's a pro to the pro-geth argument. That was the war that happed because the quarians tried to kill the geth