430 réponses à ce sujet

[JesseLee202]

Chaotic-Fusion wrote...

JesseLee202 wrote...
I think you are missing the little part where the Geth kill 99% of the Quarian population in that war. That is beyond "self-defense"

And where is it stated that the geth killed 99% of the Quarian population in the Morning War?

See, you pick a side without knowing the facts. The numbers are in the codex.

Quarian population numbers are there, pre-morning war and population post-morning war, simple math.

[Someone With Mass]

JesseLee202 wrote...

I think you are missing the little part where the Geth kill 99% of the Quarian population in that war. That is beyond "self-defense"

If they wanted to preserve themselves, they should have just captured a few ships or something and then left all the quarians alone.

Oh no, they're afraid of venturing out into the unknown. Then they must stay and escalate the whole thing even further. That makes sense.

It's really hard for me to feel sorry for them when they have so many options available and aren't considering any of them just because they can't negotiate peace.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

agu123 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

It can be either seen as a misunderstanding or they can be both to blame, you can't shift the blame all to one group, that's bogus.

If I had to choose one for whatever reason, I choose the Quarians, why? Because I'm not sure I can trust the Geth, in a military stand point their more effective in both what they bring to the fight and how other races don't look at them as hostile, and because if I'm force to commit genocide, I might as well kill the one that has the least people if their both equally wrong.

But in my personal point of view, I find the Geth to be more wrong.

What? You're not committing genocide if you have no alternative.

I don't care how you want to say it, the point is killing a whole species.

[Chaotic-Fusion]

Zardoc wrote...

1. What do you do with a rabid dog? Yeah, don't answer that.
2. The quarians didn't attack the geth either. They tried to shut them down. From their point of view they tried to deactivate the geth before they became fully selfaware AIs that could become a danger.
3. Of course the geth could've left the Veil. Until the heretics came along, the galaxy knew just about nothing about the geth in the first place.

And you're equating the Geth to a rabbid dog. I won't comment on that. I you're argument for choosing the Quarians is that the Geth are just toasters there's really nothing to discuss.
They knew the geth were already self-aware. "Does this unit have a soul?". Shutting them down equals killing. They would have never been reactivated.

[Lokiwithrope]

Fuuuuuuuuuu-

I can't decide! I'd rather save equal amounts.

[Zardoc]

I thought you were talking about priority: Rannoch. The geth didn't kill 99% of the Quarian population in the morning war. As far as I know.

They did. Assuming a population of about 15 billion in the pre-Morning War times (which is low, given the fact that the quarians have been flying around the galaxy for about 2000 years longer than we have). The flottilla's population remained more or less stable over the years aswell. You'd have to be blind to not see some connections here.

[AxStapleton]

I'm just campaigning against making this a simple black and white issue, which it quite clearly isn't.

[dreman9999]

Cobalt2113 wrote...

I saved the Quarians on my main playthrough (femshep). I did this for two main reasons.

1. Geth don't suffer when you kill them, nor do they have women and children.

2. As opposed to the millions of Quarians, the geth consensus is really only a single consciousness. Like a computer with many terminals through which it can be accessed. So it wasn't a hard choice really. Millions of lives or one consciousness?

1. Wow......That grasping for straws. The geth have diffent stages of development and form then we do and it's ok  to kill them?

2.You don't understand the geth at all. It's not one consciousness. It more of a case of many people sharing one mind and the more people together the more intelligent the brain gets. You not kill one consciousness. Your killing trillions.

[dreman9999]

JesseLee202 wrote...

Chaotic-Fusion wrote...

JesseLee202 wrote...
I think you are missing the little part where the Geth kill 99% of the Quarian population in that war. That is beyond "self-defense"

And where is it stated that the geth killed 99% of the Quarian population in the Morning War?

See, you pick a side without knowing the facts. The numbers are in the codex.

Quarian population numbers are there, pre-morning war and population post-morning war, simple math.

They did not kill 99% in the morning war.

[Chaotic-Fusion]

Zardoc wrote...

I thought you were talking about priority: Rannoch. The geth didn't kill 99% of the Quarian population in the morning war. As far as I know.

They did. Assuming a population of about 15 billion in the pre-Morning War times (which is low, given the fact that the quarians have been flying around the galaxy for about 2000 years longer than we have). The flottilla's population remained more or less stable over the years aswell. You'd have to be blind to not see some connections here.

I didn't know that. I apologize. I still stand by my argument though. The Geth acted in self-defence. The Quarian would have killed them all.

[crazyaz]

Lokiwithrope wrote...

Fuuuuuuuuuu-

I can't decide! I'd rather save equal amounts.

That's why my Speech skill is better than my accuracy in this game XD

[JesseLee202]

dreman9999 wrote...

Cobalt2113 wrote...

I saved the Quarians on my main playthrough (femshep). I did this for two main reasons.

1. Geth don't suffer when you kill them, nor do they have women and children.

2. As opposed to the millions of Quarians, the geth consensus is really only a single consciousness. Like a computer with many terminals through which it can be accessed. So it wasn't a hard choice really. Millions of lives or one consciousness?

1. Wow......That grasping for straws. The geth have diffent stages of development and form then we do and it's ok  to kill them?

2.You don't understand the geth at all. It's not one consciousness. It more of a case of many people sharing one mind and the more people together the more intelligent the brain gets. You not kill one consciousness. Your killing trillions.

But you're A OKAY with letting women and children die, thousands of them?

[dreman9999]

Zardoc wrote...

I thought you were talking about priority: Rannoch. The geth didn't kill 99% of the Quarian population in the morning war. As far as I know.

They did. Assuming a population of about 15 billion in the pre-Morning War times (which is low, given the fact that the quarians have been flying around the galaxy for about 2000 years longer than we have). The flottilla's population remained more or less stable over the years aswell. You'd have to be blind to not see some connections here.

Source please? other wise...BS.

[Someone With Mass]

Just because something asks if it has a soul doesn't mean it has one.

That makes about as much sense as if I asked if I have telekinesis and then I have it.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

dreman9999 wrote...

Cobalt2113 wrote...

I saved the Quarians on my main playthrough (femshep). I did this for two main reasons.

1. Geth don't suffer when you kill them, nor do they have women and children.

2. As opposed to the millions of Quarians, the geth consensus is really only a single consciousness. Like a computer with many terminals through which it can be accessed. So it wasn't a hard choice really. Millions of lives or one consciousness?

1. Wow......That grasping for straws. The geth have diffent stages of development and form then we do and it's ok  to kill them?

2.You don't understand the geth at all. It's not one consciousness. It more of a case of many people sharing one mind and the more people together the more intelligent the brain gets. You not kill one consciousness. Your killing trillions.

I kinda agree with your first point, but second one is invalid. There are way more Quarians than Geth...

[cynicalandbored]

Geth. I resented Quarians from the beginning and I feel like they brought all this on themselves. Machines got out of control.. but then again Legion proved to have a soul.

[ioannisdenton]

Legion was great. so was tali but sorry, i choose geth all the way.

[Zardoc]

Chaotic-Fusion wrote...

Zardoc wrote...

1. What do you do with a rabid dog? Yeah, don't answer that.
2. The quarians didn't attack the geth either. They tried to shut them down. From their point of view they tried to deactivate the geth before they became fully selfaware AIs that could become a danger.
3. Of course the geth could've left the Veil. Until the heretics came along, the galaxy knew just about nothing about the geth in the first place.

And you're equating the Geth to a rabbid dog. I won't comment on that. I you're argument for choosing the Quarians is that the Geth are just toasters there's really nothing to discuss.
They knew the geth were already self-aware. "Does this unit have a soul?". Shutting them down equals killing. They would have never been reactivated.

Of course I am, because that is essentially what they were. They just gained self awareness and had no moral compass whatsoever. They were confused and were agressively fighting for their survival.

And one or two units asking whether or not they had a soul does not mean every geth already gained self awareness. The quarians hoped to stop the spread before it really started.

[AxStapleton]

dreman9999 wrote...

JesseLee202 wrote...

Chaotic-Fusion wrote...

JesseLee202 wrote...
I think you are missing the little part where the Geth kill 99% of the Quarian population in that war. That is beyond "self-defense"

And where is it stated that the geth killed 99% of the Quarian population in the Morning War?

See, you pick a side without knowing the facts. The numbers are in the codex.

Quarian population numbers are there, pre-morning war and population post-morning war, simple math.

They did not kill 99% in the morning war.

15 Billion before----> 15 million after. I'm only mediocre at Maths but that is more or less 99%.

[Zeroth Angel]

Considering i always disliked Tali from the start i always go for the geth.
Letting her die in the SM is no fun.

Modifié par Wimbini, 05 août 2012 - 04:05 .

[Conniving_Eagle]

[quote]AxStapleton wrote...

[quote]Conniving_Eagle wrote...

The Quarians didn't even want them to think at all. All they thought they were doing was creating advanced VI's that could easily share information and operate their machinery.

Also according to Council law, AI's are not allowed to be created at all so I don't know where you got that law.

[/quote]

Sorry, I mixed up the Council Law part with A.I. advocate views that are mentioned in ME1.

The Geth could think, otherwise they would be useless. The Quarians created them as a labor/military force that could operate independantly. That was the problem, creating a neural matrix for them is what led them to gain sentience and start thinking like sentient beings.

Like Tali said, they were skirting the boundaries of A.I. laws with the Geth, are they to blame for the Geth gaining sentience? Yes, it was a possibility that they were well-aware of when they decided to create the Geth.

[agu123]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

agu123 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

It can be either seen as a misunderstanding or they can be both to blame, you can't shift the blame all to one group, that's bogus.

If I had to choose one for whatever reason, I choose the Quarians, why? Because I'm not sure I can trust the Geth, in a military stand point their more effective in both what they bring to the fight and how other races don't look at them as hostile, and because if I'm force to commit genocide, I might as well kill the one that has the least people if their both equally wrong.

But in my personal point of view, I find the Geth to be more wrong.

What? You're not committing genocide if you have no alternative.

I don't care how you want to say it, the point is killing a whole species.

The point is not being able to save one species in this case, simply because we can't. We aren't responsible for the Quarian-Geth conflict, so it's not our fault.

But if you want to put it that way... We already committed genocide against the Heretics, against the Rachni and the Collectors. How does it feel?

[Someone With Mass]

Machines can be rebuilt.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

AxStapleton wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

JesseLee202 wrote...

Chaotic-Fusion wrote...

JesseLee202 wrote...
I think you are missing the little part where the Geth kill 99% of the Quarian population in that war. That is beyond "self-defense"

And where is it stated that the geth killed 99% of the Quarian population in the Morning War?

See, you pick a side without knowing the facts. The numbers are in the codex.

Quarian population numbers are there, pre-morning war and population post-morning war, simple math.

They did not kill 99% in the morning war.

15 Billion before----> 15 million after. I'm only mediocre at Maths but that is more or less 99%.

And let me help you support that even more

http://masseffect.wi...m/wiki/Geth_War

"The geth emerged victorious, costing the quarians billions of lives and the complete loss of their economy and way of life"

[Ryzaki]

Gethsemane always even with peace. Qoarians got their Darwin Award they were so thirsty for. Tali killing herself like a spineless wimp instead of trying to fight for her people was just icing.