268 réponses à ce sujet

[Ashen One]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

The Crusader doesn't have an advantage in damage output, recoil, et cetera over the likes of the Paladin or Saber, and has far more weight. The only thing it grants is a .25m penetration.

The Crusader starts to out damage the Saber and Paladin at around rank V or so, but the extra damage is minimal, and only amounts to about 100 points per shot over either gun at rank X. RoF is equivalent to the Saber.

You're right about the only real advantage being the cover penetration though.

Modifié par Ashen Earth, 06 août 2012 - 05:05 .

[SirFragsALot333]

Absolute86 wrote...

I've been using the crusader since it was the first N7 weapon I ever unlocked.  I have never had a problem using this gun and it's quite powerful for killing most anything as long as you aim for the head on the smaller enemies.  The main character I use it on is my turian sentinel, and the crusader is usually the only gun I use with him.  If you get good enough with it, you can effectively fire from the hip as well as when you sight it. 2-3 headshots on most anything besides boss enemies will kill, and it's satisfying to be sniping guardians across the map with a single shot.  Hell you can even two shot a phantom if you have good aim on silver. Headshots are key with this weapon, those who cannot aim, need not apply.

Well said.

[COLZ7R]

Only times i have seen it is on a tue/wed just after the comms packs are out or people with sub n7 100. Other than that i have never seen anyone use it

[Grunt_Platform]

Airscale wrote...

EvanKester wrote...

Crusader is desperately in need of a damage buff, and perhaps a knockback effect. For its weight, weapon class, and firing mechanism, that single slug needs to be a beast of a hit.

Right now it's competing directly with the Carnifex, Paladin, Saber, Mattock and even sniper rifles. Each of those guns gets the same reward or better, but for less work.

Carnifex, no.
Paladin, no
Mattock... not even close
Sniper rifles, no (mainly due to field of vision and AP)
Saber, is debatable (again field of vision) and it has been covered in depth in this thread...


All of those guns do not give the same reward, and it's silly to think they do. The Crusader has definite perks the rest of those guns don't have...

Crusader has no innate AP, it only penetrates 0.25m of cover. I don't know how you think it has better AP than sniper rifles anyway. Shredder Mod is the weakest of all the AP mods, and sniper rifles have far and away the best AP mod. And sniper rifles are getting the best version of high velocity barrel soon after the next patch.

Mattock doesn't do anywhere near as much damage per bullet, but it has a better rate of fire, more ammo per clip and accomodates a wide range of mods. Carnifex and Paladin are both much easier to level up, have comparable or better damage per bullet, and for a semi-auto precision gun, pistols just have better mod options than shotguns. Saber deals only slightly less damage per hit, doesn't require a scope anyway, and has a larger magazine and—again—better mods. And the real clincher: Each of these guns weighs significantly less than even a Crusader X, and as a result they're usable on a much wider variety of classes.

Do you really get that much mileage out of 0.25m penetration? Does its hipfire accuracy help enough to justify its weight?

There's nothing wrong with liking a gun with problems, but denying those problems doesn't make them go away. If you use it, and it works for you, that's nice. But the gun is not comparing well to alternatives. I'm not going to kick anyone for using it. Nobody should, it works well enough, there are just so many better options.

Modifié par EvanKester, 06 août 2012 - 05:26 .

[waupun warrior]

I think the Crusader is good for melee builds that don't need a fast cooldown.  Gives range and allows a melee mod.  Great for my Vorch with cluster-nades build.

[Ashen One]

waupun warrior wrote...

I think the Crusader is good for melee builds that don't need a fast cooldown.  Gives range and allows a melee mod.  Great for my Vorch with cluster-nades build.

The Assault Rifles have a melee mod now too. What would stop me from simply using a Typhoon with an omni blade instead?

Although I guess to have a similarly functioning weapon to the Crusader with a melee mod, you would sacrifice damage, or AP.

[Grunt_Platform]

So.. its one niche is being able to carry a High Caliber Barrel and a Blade Attachment and still hit through a guardian's shields? That's not bad, but it's not great either. Sadly, the existence of AP ammo cuts into those advantages.

Modifié par EvanKester, 06 août 2012 - 05:30 .

[Alpha 1 Omega]

I use it on my destroyer as a long range weapon since cool down does not matter and the typhoon dose not have any long rang use.

[waupun warrior]

Ashen Earth wrote...

waupun warrior wrote...

I think the Crusader is good for melee builds that don't need a fast cooldown.  Gives range and allows a melee mod.  Great for my Vorch with cluster-nades build.

The Assault Rifles have a melee mod now too. What would stop me from simply using a Typhoon with an omni blade instead?

Although I guess to have a similarly functioning weapon to the Crusader with a melee mod, you would sacrifice damage, or AP.

Good point.  I also like having modless penatration against Guardians; they're the bane of my melee builds.

[Rudenut]

 I'd like to see the damage increased.  Also, and even more desperately, I'd like to see it's shot be changed to a super compacted group of flechettes.  Certainly seems the calibre of the barrel could handle a 20mm pack of darts.  This could allow it to break shieldgate since there are multiple projectiles.  They should stay grouped up tightly like a slug though.

[ParaNeuman]

I love the crusader. I will not tolerate any ill talks about one of my fav weapons.

[SirFragsALot333]

I can understand everyone's opinion about the crusader whether good or bad. The op's question wasn't whether it's the best weapon to use, but whether it can be used and why. It's true that my trusty gps x can out do my crusader,but killing endless amounts of enemies with the same weapon load out will get boring after awhile. The crusader will give a little more challenge and has good potential for those who invest their time with it. Nothing will change the satisfaction some of us get when you pop a phantom's head off through cover after they insult you by hiding.

[TLo137]

if you compare the crusader to the claymore, you're doing it wrong. comparable weapons are the saber, viper, and paladin.

[Ogrinash]

Just FYI and all, it penetrates the same as the Widow, which is 50cm. (BW is 25cm.). Not that it matters much, if it all.

I'm going to reiterate myself again (and again); needs 800 damage per shot (I'd then see how that goes. If it needs another 100, you can go from there). 200 less than Wraith, but 200 more than what it does now. Makes its weight worth it and giving it a point when compared to stuff like Saber.

[Zkyire]

Okay I've been doing Silver matches all day with the Crusader on a Human Soldier and I've been topping the board. I've been using the Stabilization Module (I'm not even sure if it actually works with it, might just be a placebo effect) but I've been doing pretty well.

I've yet to use the Crusader on Gold, will it be much of a jump backwards in the Crusader's usefulness?

Modifié par Zkyire, 06 août 2012 - 08:22 .

[WaffleCrab]

Teratoid wrote...

Airscale wrote...

It's a charge up gun, though (a BIG difference in my opinion)... and I loathe charge up weapons. Why would I want to wait for the Graal to charge when I can just tap the trigger and kill something instantly? The Graal isn't a bad gun, for my money I'd take the crusader everytime over it, though.

A charge up gun that can be insta-fired without charging for good damage nonetheless. The charge function doesn't HAVE to be utilised. The Graal's main weakness is how much lag affects it. And that it can't pierce walls, if you like to have that sort of function.

Airscale wrote...
...and for the people who keep using the term "better in every way" (I keep seeing that in this thread) it's leading me to believe that some of you folks don't have a grasp as to what that actually means.

The Crusader is like the Eagle: there's no real incentive beyond the novelty of utilising it when there are better, more fun options for every function it is allegedly adept at performing. I don't mean to insult anyone's sensibilities: the gun they use is their prerogative, but the fact is that the Crusader lacks the punch and utility to justify its weight and other downsides, and could use a buff to make it a competitive choice against other weapons.

A.) people keep treating crusader as a shotgun, that by default is the wrong way to do it.
B.) Graal has slow projectiles seriously limiting its use in large maps with lots of cover.
C.) Graal has no cover penetration.
D.) an uncharged shot does about the same damage as a shot from the diciple.

So unless you are specificly looking to take down only armored targets and at extremely close range(Vanguards, human soldiers) your better off actually using a GPS or if the weight doesnt matter, crusader or claymore.

[IAmARad]

 Yeah, if they cut the weight on it by like 20-30%, it'd be a solid gun, but as it is, it's worthless.  At least the Eagle is usable....

[WaffleCrab]

EvanKester wrote...

Airscale wrote...

EvanKester wrote...

Crusader is desperately in need of a damage buff, and perhaps a knockback effect. For its weight, weapon class, and firing mechanism, that single slug needs to be a beast of a hit.

Right now it's competing directly with the Carnifex, Paladin, Saber, Mattock and even sniper rifles. Each of those guns gets the same reward or better, but for less work.

Carnifex, no.
Paladin, no
Mattock... not even close
Sniper rifles, no (mainly due to field of vision and AP)
Saber, is debatable (again field of vision) and it has been covered in depth in this thread...


All of those guns do not give the same reward, and it's silly to think they do. The Crusader has definite perks the rest of those guns don't have...

Crusader has no innate AP, it only penetrates 0.25m of cover. I don't know how you think it has better AP than sniper rifles anyway. Shredder Mod is the weakest of all the AP mods, and sniper rifles have far and away the best AP mod. And sniper rifles are getting the best version of high velocity barrel soon after the next patch.

Mattock doesn't do anywhere near as much damage per bullet, but it has a better rate of fire, more ammo per clip and accomodates a wide range of mods. Carnifex and Paladin are both much easier to level up, have comparable or better damage per bullet, and for a semi-auto precision gun, pistols just have better mod options than shotguns. Saber deals only slightly less damage per hit, doesn't require a scope anyway, and has a larger magazine and—again—better mods. And the real clincher: Each of these guns weighs significantly less than even a Crusader X, and as a result they're usable on a much wider variety of classes.

Do you really get that much mileage out of 0.25m penetration? Does its hipfire accuracy help enough to justify its weight?

There's nothing wrong with liking a gun with problems, but denying those problems doesn't make them go away. If you use it, and it works for you, that's nice. But the gun is not comparing well to alternatives. I'm not going to kick anyone for using it. Nobody should, it works well enough, there are just so many better options.

The cover penetration term comes from the very same meaning of armor penetration essentially they are one and the same, like you, many other people confuse this with ignoring the armor damage reduction. In real life the very same armor penetration, means exactly the same as cover penetration, to penetrate a hardened surface. Be it a AP sabot round or AP rifle ammunition. Also the 25cm ap, is extremely usefull as over half of the cover the enemy uses is either <25cm  thick or built in a fashion that when you aim for the head in a slight angle the surface between your shot and the head is <25cm. so yes, it is a definite plus. Also the other weapons you mentioned, cannot get a an accuracy as good as the crusader, or anywhere close, without seriously sacrificing a portion of your FoV(Scope) which can lead to some tricky things on the battlefield. And it also means down range mattock etc. are less accurate, a crusader with smart choke 5 can only be outmatched in accuracy by another sniper rifle with enhanced scope.

[greghorvath]

I have been playing my lvl 5 Crusader as a sidearm on my typhoon Destroyer. Platinum and Gold. I enjoy it. It could use to bypass shieldgate though. Perhaps the ridiculous weight would make some sense that way.