268 réponses à ce sujet

[Ares Caesar]

Its simply too damn heavy.

Drop the weight range to 1.7-1.4

Right now its really only viable on weightless builds, and even then you'd be better off with something else. If it at least could be used in conjunction with powers it might not be so bad, but as it stands you either use the Crusader+Grenades (or tactical cloak), or you use powers and a different gun.

[Ashen One]

[quote]Ziegrif wrote...

[quote]Ashen Earth wrote...

Crusader does about 100 more damage per shot (same RoF) at rank X, but weighs 30% more, and has half the clip size.

So the question for me is, do I want an extra 100 damage per shot (which isn't really enough to make a difference in the number of shots required to kill an enemy anyway) or do I want to bring my Scorpion along as well to carpet bomb spawn points in addition to sniping enemies long range as I could with a Crusader.

Consider that it would be a long time before anyone gets a level X Crusader, and it's not hard to see why people think this gun needs a buff.[/quote]

It'll depend on what class you use.
If you use a Geth infiltrator then I'd use Crusader.[/quote]

I would say the Saber shines even more on the GI, due to the increased RoF in Hunter Mode along with the larger clip. The accuracy bonus in HM does nothing for the Crusader, yet mitigates one on the Saber's weaknesses when used outside of cover.

[/quote]

[Eriseley]

Ashen Earth wrote...

Crusader does about 100 more damage per shot (same RoF) at rank X, but weighs 30% more, and has half the clip size

And has a reticle that is always pinpoint, and reloads faster, and can either be used for minor piercing with no damage penalty or excellent piercing with standard penalty. But has more physical recoil, no scope or stabilization mod, etc.

[Airscale]

Ashen Earth wrote...

ShadedPhoenix wrote...

Heres a good reason to use the crusader ever.... it is not a wraith (just tried it once again, still the mostuseless gun in my armory,,, excessive minrefire is a deathsentence to this gun as much as the weight to the crusader, at least the crusader does kill mooks)

The Wraith is vastly underrated as a lightweight shotgun. I mean, it weighs as much as a Katana and does as much damage with one shot as a Widow.

It has one of the highest damage to weight ratios in the game, and until the Piranha came along was probably the best shotgun in the game. Certainly the best lightweight shotgun in the game. You're doing it wrong.

Airscale wrote...
examine the rest of your argument, though...
why would I equip a scorp/talon when I can use a harrier/typhoon as my
secondary weapon since I'm only going to use the crusader on my heavier
charcters anyway?

If you're only going to be using a Crusader on heavier characters, that's just one more advantage the Saber has over it. A Saber is light enough when leveled to be practical on power classes like Turian Sentinels, Geth Engineers, N7 Paladins, ect...

I could dual wield a Saber/Scorpion on a Human Soldier, and have an AR recharge speed somewhere around 3.5 seconds. In addition to sniping enemies like you can with a Crusader, I could annihilate spawns with the Scorpion and AR instant reload. I'd gladly sacrifice the extra 100 damage per shot for added utility.

LOL! I have no reason for 3.5 second recharge time on the Destroyer or the Demolisher... maybe on a turian solider that could come in handy, but I have never felt a need to give up comfort and control just to have a second more recharge time on a solider class character... and I don't like the handling or the feel of the scorpion and I don't like the feel of the saber. The Crusader is just better for me. That's my perference... and I'm pretty darn effective it, So you play your way and I'll play mine... and if we meet on the battlefield then we can mow down everything together.

Modifié par Airscale, 05 août 2012 - 08:57 .

[Rokayt]

It is a good gun for the Turians.

[Broganisity]

The crusader's built in AP rewards careful aim. I use it on my Paladin.

But its obscenely heavy. Buff the weight and I'll love it even more.

[Ziegrif]

[quote]Ashen Earth wrote...

[quote]Ziegrif wrote...

[quote]Ashen Earth wrote...

Crusader does about 100 more damage per shot (same RoF) at rank X, but weighs 30% more, and has half the clip size.

So the question for me is, do I want an extra 100 damage per shot (which isn't really enough to make a difference in the number of shots required to kill an enemy anyway) or do I want to bring my Scorpion along as well to carpet bomb spawn points in addition to sniping enemies long range as I could with a Crusader.

Consider that it would be a long time before anyone gets a level X Crusader, and it's not hard to see why people think this gun needs a buff.[/quote]

It'll depend on what class you use.
If you use a Geth infiltrator then I'd use Crusader.[/quote]

I would say the Saber shines even more on the GI, due to the increased RoF in Hunter Mode along with the larger clip. The accuracy bonus in HM does nothing for the Crusader, yet mitigates one on the Saber's weaknesses when used outside of cover.

[/quote]
[/quote]

That is a valid point but can you give us a brass tax number on how much the damage difference would be on a damage built destroyer or GI?
I'd do it but my brain is made of dumb and E-peen.
And how would that transfer into a Centurions head for example?
Not doubting you! Just curious.

Modifié par Ziegrif, 05 août 2012 - 09:01 .

[Nicegil2012]

I like it and use on my turian soldier, human soldier and batarian soldier...yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay

[Ashen One]

Eriseley wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

Crusader does about 100 more damage per shot (same RoF) at rank X, but weighs 30% more, and has half the clip size

And has a reticle that is always pinpoint, and reloads faster, and can either be used for minor piercing with no damage penalty or excellent piercing with standard penalty. But has more physical recoil, no scope or stabilization mod, etc.

The reload time could be instant as far as I'm concerned, and it would still be inferior. While you're reloading, I still have 4 shots left in my clip, which will kill the same number of enemies faster (same RoF, but you had to stop shooting to reload) seeing as the 100 point damage difference is rather insignificant. and if you forego the spare ammo for increased AP on the Crusader, the Saber has the advantage of more spare ammo.

True, the Crusader is more accurate, but when fired from cover the Saber has pinpoint accuracy as well.

[NewStrings]

I enjoy using it. Dunno why. I guess I like the sound and the ease with which I can line up a shot compared to a normal shotgun. I can hammer someone in the chest at close-range or line up a distance shot comfortably. I use it when weight isn't a consideration.

[RequiemPrime]

Y'know...I've used this on my Krogan Soldier before. And was actually pretty good with it on him. I think his big fat hump kinda threw the aim off a bit for me. LOL. I had put it on my Demolisher since there really isn't a drastic need for a cooldown. Not really as effective on her as it was with the Krobro.

I agree that the weight is beyond obnoxious. It needs to be toned down badly.

[Mozts]

Actual facts are getting ignored...

[Epsilon330]

In the campaign, it's very good with squadmates. Especially James, due to Incendiary Ammo. He never seems to miss.
Although it does lack ability in the MP.

[mrwizeguy]

Hey Ashen , how about classes that get shotgun weight reduction passives.

would that make its weight damage ratio worth?

[Atheosis]

Crusader is not that bad. It just weighs too much for 90% of classes to use and requires far too much active aiming compared to all the easy mode guns its competing against.

[Ashen One]

Airscale wrote...

LOL! I have no reason for 3.5 second recharge time on the Destroyer or the Demolisher...

If a weapon is only useful on two characters out of 40+, then it's a crappy weapon, and needs to be rebalanced. And even on a Destroyer, a Saber is at least competetive with a level X Crusader, seeing as it has a larger clip. (synergizes with RoF bonuses from Devastator Mode) A Saber will also stagger troopers, and can occasionally stagger bosses much like the Harrier. (Brutes, Banshee when she's not in her charging state, Geth Prime) I'm not sure if the Crusader can do this?

Airscale wrote...
maybe on a turian solider that could come in handy, but I have never felt a need to give up comfort and control just to have a second more recharge time on a solider class character... and I don't like the handling or the feel of the scorpion and I don't like the feel of the saber.

Personal preferrence has no place in a discussion about weapon/class efficiency. You like the Crusader, that's fine. I'm not saying you're bad for using it, or that you shouldn't use it. I'm saying that the weapon is underpowered when compared with a similar weapon for the sake of efficiency.

Modifié par Ashen Earth, 05 août 2012 - 09:13 .

[Homey C-Dawg]

@Airscale, I have a question for you, since you seem to really like the Crusader...

Why would you be against buffing it?

My reason for asking is because personally I love the Wraith. It's my favorite shotgun in the game. Yet people on the forums frequently complain that it's underpowered. You know what I do? I make a post saying "I love the Wraith, it's my favorite shotgun, go ahead and buff it.".

[Mandalore313]

@ ziegrif -> The smart choke is useless on the crusader. Try using it without it and you will see why.
My response has nothing to do with speedruns, it has to do with this gun not being good at anything.
It's worse than sniper rifles because it doesnt do as much damage as they do, it's worthless as a shotgun for not bypassing shield gate or being particularly good at cqc. For christ's sake even an assault rifle is better. Every single other gold shotgun except the disciple is better at everything in comparison. When 3 different types of weapons outclass the one in question it's time to start asking questions about it's usefulness don't you think?

I can understand wanting to try something different but this doesn't make the gun better.


@ airscale -> I'm guessing you either don't know what you're talking about yet giving out "advice" or you're trolling -> not worth my time in any case.




PS : If you guys still are impressed with this gun or "can do wonders with it" then maybe you should check out your other, (mathematically proven) better options.

[Atheosis]

Ashen Earth wrote...
If a weapon is only useful on two characters out of 40+, then it's a crappy weapon, and needs to be rebalanced. 

Every ultra-heavy weapon is only truly effective on a very short list of classes.  Are you saying that there should be no ultra-heavy weapons?

[Ashen One]

mrwizeguy wrote...

Hey Ashen , how about classes that get shotgun weight reduction passives.

would that make its weight damage ratio worth?

The largest shotgun weight reduction passive is 30%, I believe? If I took that, the Crusader X would have the same weight as a Saber X... but if I took the 10% weapon damage passive on that same class instead, and used a Saber, then the Saber would do more DPS, while having a larger clip and the same weight.

So no, not really.

Ziegrif wrote...

That is a valid point but can you give us
a brass tax number on how much the damage difference would be on a
damage built destroyer or GI?
I'd do it but my brain is made of dumb and E-peen.
And how would that transfer into a Centurions head for example?
Not doubting you! Just curious.

I would have to know exactly how all of those bonuses stack, but I believe the headshot multiplier is 250% for all weapons except for the Kishock which gets a 300% multiplier.

A Gold Centurion has 1687.5 shields.

A headshot from a Saber X with an extnded barrel would do 1672.5 damage to a Centurion's shields without any class damage bonus passives.

A headshot from a Crusader X with a high caliber barrel would do 1900 damage to a Centurion's shields, and break the shield gate, (only 10% of 212.5 damage would be inflicted on his health) without any class damage bonus passives.

Assuming you had one point in your class passive, it would take two headshots, or one headshot and 3 body shots to kill said Centurion with either weapon.

Modifié par Ashen Earth, 05 août 2012 - 09:28 .

[Ashen One]

Atheosis wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...
If a weapon is only useful on two characters out of 40+, then it's a crappy weapon, and needs to be rebalanced. 

Every ultra-heavy weapon is only truly effective on a very short list of classes.  Are you saying that there should be no ultra-heavy weapons?

No. I'm saying the weapons that are only effective on one or two characters (specifically, the Typhoon, post-nerf Krysae, and Javelin) need to be adjusted.

I'm not implying that the Claymore should see widespread use on Asari Adepts, or anything ridiculous like that.

Modifié par Ashen Earth, 05 août 2012 - 09:34 .

[Airscale]

Ashen Earth wrote...
Personal preferrence has no place in a discussion about weapon/class efficiency. You like the Crusader, that's fine. I'm not saying you're bad for using it, or that you shouldn't use it. I'm saying that the weapon is underpowered when compared with a similar weapon for the sake of efficiency.

Incorrect! Personal preference does in fact matter. For example, I loathe the scorpian, however I know friends of mine that rock with it... while I can use other guns just as effectively.

Also to comment on the other previous point, I don't use handguns on a Solider class, does that make them bad... nope. There's two classes I would use the Crusader on, with at least 1 character on a 3rd class... that's about the same as what I would use the Saber on. The argument that having a gun only playable on a few characters out of 40+ isn't valid.

Now I don't believe the weapon is underpowered (but I wouldn't say no to a buff, I just don't think it really needs it)... I'm saying you use other weapons more effectively (hint: this is where preference comes into play), while I use the crusader more effectively then certain other weapons. The person using of the gun generally makes all the difference. I've come to think of the crusader as the anti-krysae really... you have to be really accurate, time your shots well, and put yourself in a position to be successful with it otherwise it's darn near useless (again, the person using the gun makes all the difference). It's like asking why don't you just use the Krysae (pre-nerf) on everything if you're just looking strictly at numbers... which is a ridiculous assertion. That's why there's a variety of guns and not just 3 or 4... different strokes for different folks! So trust me, personal preference is very valid.

Modifié par Airscale, 05 août 2012 - 09:41 .

[Eriseley]

Ashen Earth wrote...

The reload time could be instant as far as I'm concerned, and it would still be inferior. While you're reloading, I still have 4 shots left in my clip, which will kill the same number of enemies faster (same RoF, but you had to stop shooting to reload) seeing as the 100 point damage difference is rather insignificant. and if you forego the spare ammo for increased AP on the Crusader, the Saber has the advantage of more spare ammo.

True, the Crusader is more accurate, but when fired from cover the Saber has pinpoint accuracy as well.

Don't get me wrong, not saying A is better than B, just other factors to consider. Personally, I sometimes like the 4ish round clip and quick reload versus larger clip and extended reload, but other times 8 rounds is nice. I think they're close enough to not be a huge deal, though, same as the Saber/Paladin comparison.

Even with cover, if you get the opportunity to actually max fire rate the Saber, your reticle never recovers if I recall. The Crusader just responds to whether I can control the recoil...that's at least interesting to me. Albeit kinda pointless for boss creatures.

Not saying it isn't too damned heavy, though. And my Saber is IX, my Crusader is II.

Modifié par Eriseley, 05 août 2012 - 09:56 .

[Ashen One]

Airscale wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...
Personal preferrence has no place in a discussion about weapon/class efficiency. You like the Crusader, that's fine. I'm not saying you're bad for using it, or that you shouldn't use it. I'm saying that the weapon is underpowered when compared with a similar weapon for the sake of efficiency.

Incorrect! Personal preference does in fact matter. For example, I loathe the scorpian, however I know friends of mine that rock with it... while I can use other guns just as effectively.

Also to comment on the other previous point, I don't use handguns on a Solider class, does that make them bad... nope. There's two classes I would use the Crusader on, with at least 1 character on a 3rd class... that's about the same as what I would use the Saber on. The argument that having a gun only playable on a few characters out of 40+ isn't valid.

Now I don't believe the weapon is underpowered (but I wouldn't say no to a buff, I just don't think it really needs it)... I'm saying you use other weapons more effectively (hint: this is where preference comes into play), while I use the crusader more effectively then certain other weapons. The person using of the gun generally makes all the difference. I've come to think of the crusader as the anti-krysae really... you have to be really accurate, time your shots well, and put yourself in a position to be successful with it otherwise it's darn near useless (again, the person using the gun makes all the difference). It's like asking why don't you just use the Krysae (pre-nerf) on everything if you're just looking strictly at numbers... which is a ridiculous assertion. That's why there's a variety of guns and not just 3 or 4... different strokes for different folks! So trust me, personal perference is very valid.

Way to completely miss the point.

Let me clarify: The point was that while you can use a Crusader, and perform one function on the battlefield, I can dual wield a Saber with a Scorpion and do the exact same thing you can, but have added utility in being able to CC and nuke spawns because the Crusader is just that damn heavy, even at level X.

How much you like the Crusader, or whether or not you like the Saber, or Scorpion is totally irrelevant. The Saber, and Crusader are so similar in damage and function, thet they might as well be the same gun (except one is obviously heavier, and much harder to level) The Scorpion was only mentioned as an example of the kind of utility a player can miss out on by taking a Crusader over a Saber, and suffering the ridiculous 30% encumbrance penalty

Basically, the Crusader needs to weigh less, or do more damage to give it a unique niche.

Modifié par Ashen Earth, 05 août 2012 - 09:51 .

[Brymfyre]

It's good when rifle season hasn't started yet and you want a little more range than buckshot, so you need a slug gun. OT, I've tried it on a couple different characters, and I definitely remember failing horribly with it on an asari vanguard. It should rip arms and legs off given its expectations.