91 réponses à ce sujet

[zeypher]

I feel the import your saves idea is a flawed idea in itself. It just ends up limiting the devs and disappointing the players. The import feature is a nice idea on paper but a horrible mess to incorporate into a game.

[Eudaemonium]

I kind of wish they would: it would lead to far more diverse and interesting games within themselves, rather than overworked devs for disappointed fans. Like zeypher said above, the idea is great in practice but horrible in execution. It also doesn't seem to mesh remotely with Bioware's design philosophy, seeing as they are reluctant to add (major) content many won't be able to see, and thus save transfers will be eternally condemned to minor cosmetic changes that the majority of fans seem to dislike.

It would also likely make implementing some sort of origins system easier, since any cosmetic or other changes currently implemented for save imports could be utilised to provide the content changes for multiple origins: like in DAO, where your origin led to minor changes in later plotlines.

[fchopin]

There is nothing in DA2 that i would like to transfer to DA3 so i would prefer no import so we start a new story from scratch.

[Apollo Starflare]

The imported decisions have only ever been a bonus to re-playability for me, rather than the be all and end all. It's not as if all replay friendly RPGs have always had such a feature and there are plenty out there that are great fun to replay.

Having your choices and dialogue impact on the game, offering alternative routes, quests, conversations (etc.) is far more important and I agree that BioWare need to work hard to get that aspect of the game right.

[Merlex]

zeypher wrote...

I feel the import your saves idea is a flawed idea in itself. It just ends up limiting the devs and disappointing the players. The import feature is a nice idea on paper but a horrible mess to incorporate into a game.

It is a problem. To many things carry over from game to game. Only major decisions should be imported. The ruler of Fereldan, Anders alive or dead, Which side Hawk took, the gb choice. Most other choices shouldn't be mentioned at all. Cameos should be limited to only NPCs that survive in previous games, no matter what choices the protagonists make. For example, Varric lives no matter what Hawk does. This would make it easier for the devs, and more consistant for players.

[Merlex]

Apollo Starflare wrote...

The imported decisions have only ever been a bonus to re-playability for me, ...
Having your choices and dialogue impact on the game, offering alternative routes, quests, conversations (etc.) is far more important and I agree that BioWare need to work hard to get that aspect of the game right.

I agree.

[Uccio]

^^ no its not. It just requires work from Bio´s part. Nothing more.

Modifié par Ukki, 07 août 2012 - 01:47 .

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

fchopin wrote...

There is nothing in DA2 that i would like to transfer to DA3 so i would prefer no import so we start a new story from scratch.

I'm beginning to feel this way too. I still want the game to be replayable though.

[EricHVela]

I think they should abandon game imports. Just pick a canon ending and go with it. The previous game has lots of replayability while the canon is unknown. Once the canon is known, it doesn't mean nobody will ever replay the previous game again to see all the other endings.

This has worked well with some popular franchises of the past that had multiple endings and/or widely varying events during the game's progress.

If they're going to railroad the previous game's choices into true=cameo and false=replacement, just forget doing it as it mostly annoys the players expecting more from their former choices.

[MagmaSaiyan]

i agree that there is very little, i think, that they could import, however by some decisions, i think can be effective in DA3. i have plenty of reasons to replay it.

[Wrathion]

Rojahar wrote...

You guys should head over to the ME3 forums. There's people over there begging Bioware for an ME4 with suggestions on how to invalidate import decisions in ways far more horrifying than any DA game.

As much as people like to blame Bioware, they just give in to the people on these forums ask for. It's just not what you or I specifically were asking for.

 A couple of people on a forum can't force you to do anything. Stupid things on their part are always their fault.
Unless it comes from higher up. Still more fault to them then the fans, anyway. 

Nah, I like the dusty, semi-empty DA2 forums. More my style.

[Wrathion]

Rojahar wrote...

Alexandrine Delassixe wrote...

Rojahar wrote...

You guys should head over to the ME3 forums. There's people over there begging Bioware for an ME4 with suggestions on how to invalidate import decisions in ways far more horrifying than any DA game.

As much as people like to blame Bioware, they just give in to the people on these forums ask for. It's just not what you or I specifically were asking for.

 A couple of people on a forum can't force you to do anything. Stupid things on their part are always their fault.
Unless it comes from higher up. Still more fault to them then the fans, anyway. 

Nah, I like the dusty, semi-empty DA2 forums. More my style.

All I'm seeing is:
"When Bioware listens to OTHER fans, they're an evil dumb corporation who doesn't listen to their 'true' fans! Bioware should only listen to ME and MY dumb ideas!"

What is their "fault" anyway? Making the games people want and buy? Not making every game to your personal specifications and dreams?

The game is theirs. They do what they want. 

If implemeting "this" feature that "randomBSNuser" suggested is "making the games people want and buy" then why blame fans when you decide it's something you don't like when it's obviously Bioware's decision and their decision only.
 
I've seen many an interesting idea being suggested on this forum be dismissed as impossible or unnecessary. By the same people that we preportedly have influence over.
If Bioware is so swayed by the ways of the fans, then why (publicly) dismiss ideas of some users while embracing others?

But-but-but the fans!!!!!

Modifié par Alexandrine Delassixe, 08 août 2012 - 04:02 .

[nightscrawl]

Alexandrine Delassixe wrote...

I've seen many an interesting idea being suggested on this forum be dismissed as impossible or unnecessary. By the same people that we preportedly have influence over.

I've also seen it mentioned that there are very few new ideas suggested by fans that (1) the devs haven't already thought of or considered in one form or other, (2) don't really fit their goals for the DA franchise, (3) a lot more would be involved in implementing said mechanic than the suggester seems to realize, or (4) involves blatantly copying some other game.

I rarely suggest ideas myself. I mainly try to bring to the attention of the devs some aspect of their design that had an unforeseen effect on the players, and discuss various reasons for that. Get them to think outside the box, as it were. It's the same with having some other person review something you have written. Sure, you may know what you mean to say, may have read it over several times, but a pair of fresh eyes are sometimes what is needed, such as my involved post about why many players felt that "rivalry = bad" relating to friendship and rivalry in DA2.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 08 août 2012 - 08:16 .

[Icehawk7]

DAO: I wanted to play multiple times.
DA2: I started a second play through and I'm not really motivated to play it.

To answer the subject question: I don't think so, but i just hope DA3 has a lot more locations than DA2. Take your time. Do it right. Less repeats and more variety is a good thing. Repetition is fine and all, but DA2 went overboard.

[Iakus]

zeypher wrote...

I feel the import your saves idea is a flawed idea in itself. It just ends up limiting the devs and disappointing the players. The import feature is a nice idea on paper but a horrible mess to incorporate into a game.

This.

I'm discovering that game imports seem to restrict games far more than they expand them. 

I'd rather have choices I make have tangible outcomes in the game they're made than just be some minor shoutout ina later game.

If some previous decision is important to a future game, I'd rather see a simple checklist at the beginning that we can select

Dark Ritual Done?  y/n

Anders alive?  y/n

Hawke a mage?  y/n?

Would avoid import bugs too.  I for one can't seem to convince DA2 that Nathaniel Howe is alive, for example.

[Nefla]

My hopes for decisions that matter, replayability, and import files having an effect are at an all time low.

Modifié par Nefla, 09 août 2012 - 06:36 .

[Rawgrim]

Ever since Leliana survived being decapitated, I have ditched imports entirely. I preffer starting on a clean slaite in DA3. Might as well.

[SafetyShattered]

I don't think that replayability has been abandoned by Bioware. I mean ME3 let you have a new game+, which definately encourages new playthroughs. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they did this in DA3. As far as as importing goes idk. If done correctly, like ME, I hope that they definately continue to do it. If however it's done like DA2 I couldn't care less if they ditch it or not. I mean let's be honest. Importing your save from DAO to DA2 didn't exactly do much of anything. If DA2 imports to DA3 would play a similar role I'd prefer them just to take the resources that they would've used for importing choices and use them for something else that actually matters. *cough cough better story cough cough*

[Byker]

Considering they made this game in a year, im surprised they even fit time into having the warden or any of your companions in origins

[Sith Grey Warden]

So far, I've played all the way through DAO 6 times (not once with each origin, though). I did this without ever importing decisions from a previous game. The replayability came from a game that could stand entirely on its own.

I only played through DA2 twice, which was filled with contrived reasons for everyone from Ferelden to pop over to Kirkwall. That's half the number of times I played through Awakening, btw.

I wouldn't mind if Bioware set a canon for previous DA games. Since we're not playing the same character again, and since we're switching to a new region each time, there really isn't that much of a need for most decisions to have an impact. Instead, if each story in and of itself carries meaning and weight, I would see that as much better for the series.That said, it might be nice to see the impact of some of the bigger decisions (who's King, Old God Baby).

[force192]

iakus wrote...

zeypher wrote...

I feel the import your saves idea is a flawed idea in itself. It just ends up limiting the devs and disappointing the players. The import feature is a nice idea on paper but a horrible mess to incorporate into a game.

This.

I'm discovering that game imports seem to restrict games far more than they expand them. 

I'd rather have choices I make have tangible outcomes in the game they're made than just be some minor shoutout ina later game.

If some previous decision is important to a future game, I'd rather see a simple checklist at the beginning that we can select

Dark Ritual Done?  y/n

Anders alive?  y/n

Hawke a mage?  y/n?

Would avoid import bugs too.  I for one can't seem to convince DA2 that Nathaniel Howe is alive, for example.

This! I would love to have a checklist instead if importing my saves.  I actually sugested to Mark Darrah that they should consider useing a check list system instead of a save import system.

Modifié par force192, 10 août 2012 - 04:04 .

[Allan Schumacher]

Amid all the criticism directed at DA2, on that stood out the most for me was the lack of replayability. This was largely because the imported desisions were so sparce.

I don't think importing is much of a factor affecting replayability. It can be, but it's difficult if that's going to be a key cog in how a game focuses on its replayability.

Games like Fallout 1, Alpha Protocol, and DAO are very replayable, and since they're the first game in a series obviously there's no element of import.

Any issues that DA2 have with replayability, in my opinion, is on us to provide better replayability within the game itself. In theory we could completely ignore any form of import and I don't think that provides any sort of barrier to replayability in any future DA titles.

That we aren't ignoring it just allows us to add a bit of extra gravy for those that have played the earlier games and made those decisions

[Allan Schumacher]

This.

I'm discovering that game imports seem to restrict games far more than they expand them.

I'd rather have choices I make have tangible outcomes in the game they're made than just be some minor shoutout ina later game.

If some previous decision is important to a future game, I'd rather see a simple checklist at the beginning that we can select

Dark Ritual Done? y/n

Anders alive? y/n

Hawke a mage? y/n?

Just as an interesting fact, from a QA perspective I like this idea because it makes testing soooooooooooooo much easier.

On DA2 we had to have people go back and playthrough Origins (on each platform!) to ensure we had valid imports.


Though even then I still remember writing a simple app that generated the plot files for import based on randomly assigning true/false to the flags we were checking. This did lead to hilarious imports that had the Dwarven Elf Hermaphrodite Wizard Rogue that both killed and spared Loghain while entering into a polygamous marriage with Alistair and Anora, that opted to let most of Amaranthine and Vigil's Keep burn to the ground!

But hey, at least the right values were being imported

(This was just a system test to make sure the import system was properly reading the correct flags and assigning them the correct value in DA2. )