1214 réponses à ce sujet

[Erixxxx]

Ending supporter from day 1. The EC just made it infinitely better.

[Mazebook]

Fandango9641 wrote...

No doubt, but let's just remember for a second that each choice carries with it its own set of horrible consequences. Honestly, what a wretched conclusion.
 

Honestly...anything else would have been the same Hollywood BS we are soooo used to. [see Independence Day for example]
which would have disappointed me greatly... I always thought Mass Effect was better than that.

[Reorte]

maaaze wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

No doubt, but let's just remember for a second that each choice carries with it its own set of horrible consequences. Honestly, what a wretched conclusion.
 

Honestly...anything else would have been the same Hollywood BS we are soooo used to. [see Independence Day for example]
which would have disappointed me greatly... I always thought Mass Effect was better than that.

It would've been disappointing but preferable. Just because one thing is bad doesn't make anything else better.

[Pitznik]

Fandango9641 wrote...

Perhaps you should only respond to the posts of people you do understand eh?

I like your style. From "garbage" to "silly post" to "what I said wasn't stupid, you just misunderstood". I'm trying to help you here, don't get angry. It's ok to be confused. I'll try to explain.

Shepard (and everyone else) knows what are chances of conventional war against the Reapers. Nonetheless they decide that Crucible is their best chance. Unknown > conventional warfare. Why would they do that? Simple, without it there is NO CHANCE. Even unknown is better than no chance. That is ingame fact, not something you can discuss inside the game context. Mac and Casey could decide for different plot, they didn't. From this moment on, they don't exist.

Fast forward to Catalyst. You say you don't trust him, fine. Still it is unknown vs NO CHANCE, nothing changed. Unknown can't be any worse, so you go with it.

Or you do trust Catalyst and you get synthesis/mass death of the Geth/control vs NO CHANCE. Do you remember what we established in the beginning? Chance for conventional victory is so nonexistant that everyone decided to go with complete unknown, so you can't really pretend to not know. At this moment in time our forces are even lower than when we decided for the Crucible, since what could be put in conventional military was put into Crucible. Our forces are also setup for the deployment of the Crucible. That is not a good thing from conventional victory point of view.

So now you have to pick a choice:

- it is logical since every choice is better than NO CHANCE, or in case of lack of trust unknown > NO CHANCE

- it is your responsibility to do it, as the person who made the whole galaxy invest their resources and military into Crucible project and Crucible's deployment

If you need anything else explained, feel free to ask.

[MegaSovereign]

No doubt, but let's just remember for a second that each choice carries with it its own set of horrible consequences. Honestly, what a wretched conclusion.

That's your opinion. Some like the grey area of these choices.

Oh and before you give me the predictable "oh then you must love genocide and slavery" response, let me tell you a few things.

1) The Reapers were always tools for the Catalyst's directive. They were never free to begin with. Shepard replaces the Catalyst AI, he gives them a new directive. This is why you shouldn't really pin moral stigmas on the Control ending based off the idea of slavery.

2) The death of the Geth was collateral damage. Whether or not you take responsibility for their destruction is your business. "Genocide" is the indirect result of trying to Destroy the Reapers.

3) You shouldn't care about the genocide or "enslavement" of Reapers either way. They're Reapers, for crying out loud.

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 07 août 2012 - 10:57 .

[Reorte]

Fandango9641 wrote...

No doubt, but let's just remember for a second that each choice carries with it its own set of horrible consequences. Honestly, what a wretched conclusion.

Indeed, and given that you're pushed into a situation where you've got to make a choice, whether you have any right to or not, all a moral Shepard can do is pick the one that has the least bad consequences. You can argue a bit about which choice that is if you want. Arguing about the right to chose is irrelevent because there's no alternative, no way of polling everyone or getting permission from someone who would have the right (not that there is such a person). In reality anyone might end up in a situation where they have to chose who lives and who dies (let's hope we don't, but it does happen). No-one has the right to make that decision but sometimes there's just no alternative.

[Pitznik]

Reorte wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

No doubt, but let's just remember for a second that each choice carries with it its own set of horrible consequences. Honestly, what a wretched conclusion.

Indeed, and given that you're pushed into a situation where you've got to make a choice, whether you have any right to or not, all a moral Shepard can do is pick the one that has the least bad consequences. You can argue a bit about which choice that is if you want. Arguing about the right to chose is irrelevent because there's no alternative, no way of polling everyone or getting permission from someone who would have the right (not that there is such a person). In reality anyone might end up in a situation where they have to chose who lives and who dies (let's hope we don't, but it does happen). No-one has the right to make that decision but sometimes there's just no alternative.

People fighting against terrorism have to deal with dilemmas like this - plane with passengers hijacked by terrorists  aimed at building. No time to evacuate, not possible to hit terrorists precisely, many more people in the building than in the plane. What would the military of most countries do?

I suppose they would destroy the plane.

Modifié par Pitznik, 07 août 2012 - 11:07 .

[Tonymac]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

FoggyFishburne wrote...

Wow... this ****ing **** community... You morons have a "appreciation thread" for a **** ending? For a company that doesn't give a **** about you... I'm out. Idiots will be idiots

:wub::wub::wub::wub:

Case in point about why I now loathe just about every endings hater in the forums (except for those folks on my friends list who usually manage to be polite about it). People who appreciated the efforts BW made to address their concerns OR those who were actually okay with the original endings because they didn't need to be spoonfed every detail are not the idiots here.

People who can't move on with their lives after experiencing a game ending they didn't like (lulz) and who then end up writing expletive-filled posts that insult those who don't share their views...well, I'd suggest that they go put on their dunce caps immediately. Idiots will be idiots after all - they should dress appropriately.

I can agree with that statement.  I hated the original endings.  Everything seemed rushed - they were throwing the series away like so much trash.  I had the feeling they did not know what to do - bad storytelling, bad endings, nothing even slightly inventive.  Its like a childish mind wrote that jazz.  I suppose I raged because they didn't even try.  Choose the color of your death!  What a let down.

Given what they had to work with for the endings, I think they turned it around rather well with the EC.  Things were put back into the spirit of why we play video games - why we fought for the lost - why we even started this adventure.  While I am not happy with the overall story of ME3, I am happy with what they did to improve it.  Finally we got some heart and soul, slight closure - even if it was not what I wanted.  I can close the book, unhappy - but still call it done.

[Oni Changas]

CataWiseau: "I'm NAWT a liar! EET WAS YER FAWT."

[Seival]

I understand that different people prefer different endings, but usually they don't say anything clear about their overall endings personal rating. I asked a question before in Control support thread, and wanna repeat it here...

...What is your final personal rating of the endings?
...But please, remember that Paragon Control =/= Renegade Control

So, my final personal rating is: Paragon Control > Synthesis > Renegade Control > Destroy > Refusal

Modifié par Seival, 07 août 2012 - 11:27 .

[Pitznik]

Fandango9641 wrote...

Dozy little pleb - if i'm confused, it's only because the quality of your written english is matched only by your inability to reason rationally and in good faith. Listen, no one knew what the Catalyst was prior to the introduction of Casper right? Mac and Casey wrote our endings right? Can you not engage your brain for a nanosecond and at least try to understand that the conclusion of our trilogy was in their hands at that moment?

Do they make the Catalyst a weapon designed to tip the balance of a conventional fight against the Reapers? Sounds reasonable. Do they make the Catalyst an unnecessarily elaborate paint by numbers apparatus, requiring Shep become a war criminal or condemn the current cycle to death? Works for some. In any case, my point is that a conventional victory is not possible ONLY BECAUSE Mac and Casey wanted to take the trilogy off on some bizarre, transcendental, morally repugnant, tangent at the 11th hour. I don't like it. You do.  No one knew where they were going with the thing. Stop chatting fart.

If you think that throwing insults makes your arguement any stronger, than you're wrong. Ad hominem is usually the last resort of someone desperately trying to prove his point, but lacking any decent reasoning to back it up. Just saying, so in the future you could avoid it.

It is ok that you don't like how ME3 plot was written, I'm somewhat ok with it, still it could be much better. But if you intend to discuss about superiority of one ending over another, you have to accept ingame reality, even if you don't like it. It is not "I picked the right choice, but writers made it bad". It is you picking wrong choice, simple as that. You're coming here, flamebaiting people for picking their choices, but when asked about your choice and motivation, you instead of just admitting "I picked refusal, because headcanon" or "I picked refusal, because I wanted to show Mac and Casey what do I think about them" you enter the arguement, trying to defend your choice, which obviously doesn't work at all in ingame reality and you get angry at people for proving you wrong.

I would too prefer it to be a weapon, or something less magical and less surreal, but it is not. So I work with what we have.

[Pitznik]

Fandango9641 wrote...

Any Shep (moral or otherwise) doesn't have the ability to predict the future. Does one trust in the morally repugnent solutions on offer or continue to respect and fight for the basic, inalienable rights of all life in the galaxy? That this is an easier choice for some than it is for others says it all I think.

If you see game of football, with X winning 4:0 against Y and 1 minute til the end, will it be predicting the future if you say that X is going to win? It didn't happened yet, but it is going to happen anyway, even if Y scores 1, it won't have enough time to score more.

[Mcfly616]

Fandango9641 wrote...

Every choice sucks. The ending sucks. Thats kind of my point. In any case, sorry for getting snotty (clearly I've had more tea than is good for me). Perhaps now would be a good time to leave the thread for those who actually managed to enjoy the end of ME3.

it was never a good time to ever comment on the thread.....considering it's and "Ending Appreciation" Thread, it clearly doesn't pertain to you....I would say "go to one of the hundreds of threads that cater to your ilk".....but we all know you're just trolling.

[Mazebook]

Seival wrote...

I understand that different people prefer different endings, but usually they don't say anything clear about their overall endings personal rating. I asked a question before in Control support thread, and wanna repeat it here...

...What is your final personal rating of the endings?
...But please, remember that Paragon Control =/= Renegade Control

So, my final personal rating is: Paragon Control > Synthesis > Renegade Control > Destroy > Refusal

I know this is a copout but it really is :

Synthesis = Destory = Para/Rene Control > Refusal 

I like them all for different reasons and each of these choices fits a Shaperd I roleplay...

If i would roleplay myself...I would choose most likely destroy... because of the danger the reapers represent....and to be honest...I would not want to be an A.I. or run into a beam...I am a coward in that regard.

[MegaSovereign]

Fandango9641 wrote...

Every choice sucks. The ending sucks. Thats kind of my point. In any case, sorry for getting snotty (clearly I've had more tea than is good for me). Perhaps now would be a good time to leave the thread for those who actually managed to enjoy the end of ME3.

And you want people to accept your point by acting like a condescending ****?

Nevermind the fact that your introduction into this thread was insulting, what were you even trying to accomplish? 

By the way you went about it, it doesn't seem like you wanted an open-minded discussion.

[Pitznik]

Fandango9641 wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

Any Shep (moral or otherwise) doesn't have the ability to predict the future. Does one trust in the morally repugnent solutions on offer or continue to respect and fight for the basic, inalienable rights of all life in the galaxy? That this is an easier choice for some than it is for others says it all I think.

If you see game of football, with X winning 4:0 against Y and 1 minute til the end, will it be predicting the future if you say that X is going to win? It didn't happened yet, but it is going to happen anyway, even if Y scores 1, it won't have enough time to score more.

Sorry dude, please read my ealier post again. Mac and Casey literally took the trilogy off at a tangent in the last few minutes so I just dont accept that I should have figured their intentions. Again, given the way they set things up, the series could have been anything from that point. Right?

EDIT: ok, i'm done.

More or less, yes. They made an arbitrary choice of ME3's plot being "only miracle can save us" and then they made this miracle bitter and repulsive. Guess that was their point, and fans got angry. I still think it could be made easier to swallow with better execution, so everything would made more sense. On Virmire there was a difficult choice to make, you couldn't save everyone, yet it still came somewhat more natural.

Modifié par Pitznik, 07 août 2012 - 11:53 .

[Urdnot Amenark]

MegaSovereign wrote...

I really, really don't like that picture or the caption.

But I support threads that aren't filled with unhealthy negativity and ignorance.

Hopefully this thread doesn't turn into a spamfest.

You can make some pretty good recipes with spam.

[MegaSovereign]

Urdnot Amenark wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

I really, really don't like that picture or the caption.

But I support threads that aren't filled with unhealthy negativity and ignorance.

Hopefully this thread doesn't turn into a spamfest.

You can make some pretty good recipes with spam.

None of them produce Cake, unfortunately.

[Urdnot Amenark]

ioannisdenton wrote...

Applepie_Svk wrote...

Pitznik wrote...


Care to point me to some examples?

Like sabotage of genophage, like choosing from Geths and Quarians, like avoiding to defuse Bomb at Tuchanka, like saving the Mad Quenn, like Renegade interrupt for Legion, like shooting Wrex, like shooting Mordin, like lying to EVA, like shooting Samara´s daughter ... should I continue ? It´s pretty long list

shhoting mordin , sabotaging the cure is not evil. it is a point of view. Your eally do not know how Krogan will act in example revenge on salarians in the middle of reaper invasion even expanding again right after rachni wars, you don't even know how strong the krogan are and how helpfull they will be ij the fight against reapers. Salarians and their tech and their ships may prove to be more valuable. Hence if shepard chooses salarians help he must sabotage the cure even if that means killing mordin. look at the big picture.
Same as bomb defusing, weakening Krogan may be better in the long run as Krogan may retaliate immediately against salarians.
So it all comes to Point of view.

Continuing genocide is evil undoubtedly, especially since deception and manipulation are required and it affects countless innocents. However, depending on your point of view, it might be a necessary evil. 

[Seival]

Erixxxx wrote...

Ending supporter from day 1. The EC just made it infinitely better.

Good to hear

As for me... I was confused like many other players just after my first playthrough. Process of understanding was slow at the beginning, but interesting. Then I accepted the endings as they are. And 1 month before EC I realized they are quite good in fact. Time have passed, EC was released, and now I find overall endings concept perfect

[Jonata]

Very good work of collecting the most useful link. And count on me about the endings, I firmly believe Mass Effect 3 is great and absolutely not bad as these boards want to believe.