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[Applepie_Svk]

pirate1802 wrote...


ME3: defeating the reapers

3/4 endings let Reapers live ...


...I know ho you feel Shepard...

[DirtyPhoenix]

Surprise! Defeating someone doesn't mean killing the. Crazy I know..

[Seival]

pirate1802 wrote...

But I expected a bit more, because apparently it is pointless for anyone who doesn't play like an idiot. I didn't even know its impact apart from the trivial EMS difference until I can on BSN after finishing the game. Personally I can't help but feel the entire Mass Effect 2 game was pointless. :/

You know, what would have been brilliant? Using the collector base to find out a weapon against the reapers. that would have made ME2, collector plot and the human reaper impactful, and also save us from the ludicrous way the crucible is introduced in ME3.

Well, I think that Proto-Reaper was never intended to be something extremely important for the story. But still it has its impact. Remember when we first knew about the Reapers being half-organic?

Proto-Reaper was valuable as a little part of the story, boss, and some minor impact on ME3 story. But I never expected it to be something major in fact.

Modifié par Seival, 08 août 2012 - 03:44 .

[Seival]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...


ME3: defeating the reapers

3/4 endings let Reapers live ...

...I know ho you feel Shepard...

Actually, I think that all endings let the Reapers live:

...I have some interesting thoughts about The Reapers. I believe they can overcome EVERYTHING even their own death. The more advanced you are technologically, the easier it will be to harvest you (remember Protheans?) If you Control them, they continue existing, but become guided by your own Catalyst with its own thoughts on how to protect lesser races. If you Destroy them, they become a "ground" for Galactic Civilization to grow on, which will only lead to the Reapers' resurrection eventually. If you Synthesise, then they literally start to live inside each living being, balancing differences between organics and synthetics. Either way - The Reapers will continue to be "a solution". And it's up to you, what exactly this solution will be: Guarding, or Dictating, or Balancing, or Harvesting.

...Also some interesting thoughts. The Reapers are not just "advanced warships and hasks". The Reapers are Nano-Tech, which organize the surrounding materials to have specific half-organic-half-synthetic forms. Nano-Tech, which has one collective mind - The Catalyst. Living, thinking being consisting of trillions of microscopical formations, mixed with harvested material, and shaped in forms of Warships and Hasks... I think it's a good basis for a new story in ME Universe
 

Modifié par Seival, 08 août 2012 - 03:46 .

[Applepie_Svk]

Seival wrote...



Actually, I think that all endings let the Reapers live:

...I have some interesting thoughts about The Reapers. I believe they can overcome EVERYTHING even their own death. The more advanced you are technologically, the easier it will be to harvest you (remember Protheans?) If you Control them, they continue existing, but become guided by your own Catalyst with its own thoughts on how to protect lesser races. If you Destroy them, they become a "ground" for Galactic Civilization to grow on, which will only lead to the Reapers' resurrection eventually. If you Synthesise, then they literally start to live inside each living being, balancing differences between organics and synthetics. Either way - The Reapers will continue to be "a solution". And it's up to you, what exactly this solution will be: Guarding, or Dictating, or Balancing, or Harvesting.

...Also some interesting thoughts. The Reapers are not just "advanced warships and hasks". The Reapers are Nano-Tech, which organize the surrounding materials to have specific half-organic-half-synthetic forms. Nano-Tech, which has one collective mind - The Catalyst. Living, thinking being consisting of trillions of microscopical formations, mixed with harvested material, and shaped in forms of Warships and Hasks... I think it's a good basis for a new story in ME Universe
 

Catalyst is different entity than Reapers, his conversation has too many flaws to believe that he is actualy one of them, despite that Reapers will be destroyed it´s just his solution as the Control or Synthesis -  Reapers will die but he will be still behind curtain observing and waiting for his time of return. It´s just illusion which he gave to Shepard - you which force you think that he will be destroyed - did you heard about Russian roulette, He knew the risks and knew that organics very easily fall to emotions that´s why he has second plan.

[Mazebook]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

Seival wrote...



Actually, I think that all endings let the Reapers live:

...I have some interesting thoughts about The Reapers. I believe they can overcome EVERYTHING even their own death. The more advanced you are technologically, the easier it will be to harvest you (remember Protheans?) If you Control them, they continue existing, but become guided by your own Catalyst with its own thoughts on how to protect lesser races. If you Destroy them, they become a "ground" for Galactic Civilization to grow on, which will only lead to the Reapers' resurrection eventually. If you Synthesise, then they literally start to live inside each living being, balancing differences between organics and synthetics. Either way - The Reapers will continue to be "a solution". And it's up to you, what exactly this solution will be: Guarding, or Dictating, or Balancing, or Harvesting.

...Also some interesting thoughts. The Reapers are not just "advanced warships and hasks". The Reapers are Nano-Tech, which organize the surrounding materials to have specific half-organic-half-synthetic forms. Nano-Tech, which has one collective mind - The Catalyst. Living, thinking being consisting of trillions of microscopical formations, mixed with harvested material, and shaped in forms of Warships and Hasks... I think it's a good basis for a new story in ME Universe
 

Catalyst is different entity than Reapers, his conversation has too many flaws to believe that he is actualy one of them, despite that Reapers will be destroyed it´s just his solution as the Control or Synthesis -  Reapers will die but he will be still behind curtain observing and waiting for his time of return. It´s just illusion which he gave to Shepard - you which force you think that he will be destroyed - did you heard about Russian roulette, He knew the risks and knew that organics very easily fall to emotions that´s why he has second plan.

Interesting little fanfic you have there...I also have one were TIM is an evil twin of Anderson from another Dimension.

Sadly both are not presented in the game.

[DirtyPhoenix]

So what should be done? refuse?

[Gran_Duma]

Rabid haters of the endings remind me why I hate gamers.

[Seival]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

Seival wrote...



Actually, I think that all endings let the Reapers live:

...I have some interesting thoughts about The Reapers. I believe they can overcome EVERYTHING even their own death. The more advanced you are technologically, the easier it will be to harvest you (remember Protheans?) If you Control them, they continue existing, but become guided by your own Catalyst with its own thoughts on how to protect lesser races. If you Destroy them, they become a "ground" for Galactic Civilization to grow on, which will only lead to the Reapers' resurrection eventually. If you Synthesise, then they literally start to live inside each living being, balancing differences between organics and synthetics. Either way - The Reapers will continue to be "a solution". And it's up to you, what exactly this solution will be: Guarding, or Dictating, or Balancing, or Harvesting.

...Also some interesting thoughts. The Reapers are not just "advanced warships and hasks". The Reapers are Nano-Tech, which organize the surrounding materials to have specific half-organic-half-synthetic forms. Nano-Tech, which has one collective mind - The Catalyst. Living, thinking being consisting of trillions of microscopical formations, mixed with harvested material, and shaped in forms of Warships and Hasks... I think it's a good basis for a new story in ME Universe
 

Catalyst is different entity than Reapers, his conversation has too many flaws to believe that he is actualy one of them, despite that Reapers will be destroyed it´s just his solution as the Control or Synthesis -  Reapers will die but he will be still behind curtain observing and waiting for his time of return. It´s just illusion which he gave to Shepard - you which force you think that he will be destroyed - did you heard about Russian roulette, He knew the risks and knew that organics very easily fall to emotions that´s why he has second plan.

Since the Catalyst is the Reapers collective mind, it will be correct to consider "The Reapers" as one living being consisting of many different mobile and static platforms. The Catalyst as an entity will never "die", you can only replace its original personality with your Shepard personality (Control), or put it into "sleep mode" (Synthesis, Destroy)... This is how I see it.

[MegaSovereign]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...


ME3: defeating the reapers

3/4 endings let Reapers live ...


...I know ho you feel Shepard...

Two of the endings have you defeat the Reapers. One of them (synthesis) lets you have a compromise with them to secure peace.

Living Reapers doesn't change the fact that they were still defeated.

[Taboo]

Destroy only damages the Synthetic structure of the Reapers.

I would think that my Shepard (or Miranda) would head teams to see if we couldn't do something with these organic parts.

Perhaps we might even clone these species to allow them to live again. You couldn't do that in Control or Synthesis.

[Seival]

pirate1802 wrote...

So what should be done? refuse?

Control. It's better to have Shepard-Catalyst, than some kind of sleeping time-bomb.

...But this is just my opinion of course 

[MegaSovereign]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Destroy only damages the Synthetic structure of the Reapers.

I would think that my Shepard (or Miranda) would head teams to see if we couldn't do something with these organic parts.

Perhaps we might even clone these species to allow them to live again. You couldn't do that in Control or Synthesis.

That's disgusting. They're dead. The species that was used to creat those Reapers have been dead for thousands/millions of years.

Let their souls rest.

[Taboo]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Destroy only damages the Synthetic structure of the Reapers.

I would think that my Shepard (or Miranda) would head teams to see if we couldn't do something with these organic parts.

Perhaps we might even clone these species to allow them to live again. You couldn't do that in Control or Synthesis.

That's disgusting. They're dead. The species that was used to creat those Reapers have been dead for thousands/millions of years.

Let their souls rest.

I agree.

However I need to consider all options. Some people get butthurt over me picking Destroy, even though I assure them it's not about an "Us vs. Them" idealogy to me.

One of the main complaints is the loss of knowledge from the Reapers.

[Pandora]

Control (TIM) - It's nice to have it but I'm afraid it's gonna come back to bite me in the butt.

Synthesis (Saren) - I have to be honest and say..that ending is not so bad but I'm a sucker for a happy-ish ending.

Destroy (Anderson) - I wanted to destroy everything but not my friends (Edi and the Geth). It's just the opportunity cost of losing them that bothers me; just to let Shepard survive.

Refusal (Space Child + Harbinger = WIN for them) - I would say Shepard would attempt this. I'm not sure of the cost though.

I still remember the 2007 ME ad - "Dilemma doesn't begin to describe it.."
I think 5 years later that still holds true.

[Brovikk Rasputin]

Gran_Duma wrote...

Rabid haters of the endings remind me why I hate gamers.

Indeed. They just go on and on about the same thing.. on and on and on. 

[DirtyPhoenix]

Seival wrote...

Control. It's better to have Shepard-Catalyst, than some kind of sleeping time-bomb.

...But this is just my opinion of course

I was asking Applepie since he said basically all the RGB options are playing into the reaper's hands.

P.S: This thread has recovered nicely after the initial troll attack.

[Pitznik]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Perhaps we might even clone these species to allow them to live again. You couldn't do that in Control or Synthesis.

I know you feel guilty about the Geth, but that won't bring them back. And it is also stupid.

[Taboo]

My Shepard feels guilty about a lot of things.

I'm not speaking of cloning the Geth. They are as dead as dead can be.

I'm referring to the organic components found withing the Reapers themselves.

[GerojSvK]

Whoa, they actually pay people to put up threads like this?

[Applepie_Svk]

Seival wrote...


Since the Catalyst is the Reapers collective mind, it will be correct to consider "The Reapers" as one living being consisting of many different mobile and static platforms. The Catalyst as an entity will never "die", you can only replace its original personality with your Shepard personality (Control), or put it into "sleep mode" (Synthesis, Destroy)... This is how I see it.

Nope, he is saying that he is controling the Reapers - personality of his creators become irrelevant because they would never approved. So he force them to approve - it´s why he is saying that the Reapers are synthetic representation of his creators because all minds and personalities are erased - etc, synthetics which took just a programming from their organic ego are no more these same personalities and it´s simple to control - Look at the control endings what said Shepbinger - The women I was used these...

Conflict betwen AI and Organics will always end in same directions - AI countless vs Organics countable.
The AI-Catalyst is not limited and that´s why synthesis is also dangerous, by my opinion Catalyst as AI just looking a way for expanding upon the organics, it´s why he is prefering so much synthesis - looking to way a gain control over organic bodies - looking for something which we could called the understanding - simply said AI with obsession for flesh and blood but he always failed because it was forced and even in the ending his explanation is flawed until he is doing it on purpose to decieve Shepard and think about synthesis as a good solution. 

For example:
When someone get a new organ, it´s questionable if the organism will co-operating with a new part.
Catalyst was replacing parts of organics in same way but it never worked, because organics were unwilling - he achieved only husks.

Do you remember what said Mordin in ME2 ? That too much replacement of organs with synthetic implants destroyed mind and culture of all those Collectors etc there is nothing to left than empty shell filled with wires. 

This is the only way you can answer some of the quotes - like Harbinger:
Your worlds become our Laboratories...
and Sovereign:
You are nothing just a genetic mutation...

Catalyst wasn´t looking for solution but he was looking for way to synthetics evolve upon the organic life  - simply said the way how to transfer AI into organic body, it would be also explanation why even create indoctrination - as next attempt to gain a control over organic mind but side effect of indoctrination cause demention maybe even brain traume so his attempt failed again.

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 08 août 2012 - 05:36 .

[Pitznik]

Taboo-XX wrote...

My Shepard feels guilty about a lot of things.

I'm not speaking of cloning the Geth. They are as dead as dead can be.

I'm referring to the organic components found withing the Reapers themselves.

Yeah, I know, I assumed it is some sort of compensation for the Geth. But you will end up with a bunch of new species, from varous different ecosystems, that no longer exist, you will be responsible to find them some place to live, matching their biological needs, and not used by anyone else... so plenty of trouble, plenty of responsibility, nothing gained - just another species suddenly appears, where there was none. There is some symbolic value in this, undoing Reapers' work, but the life is too serious thing to us it for such gestures.

[Taboo]

^ Very much so.

I think that at the end of the day, it would be best to leave them be. However I do think something needs to be done about the newly acquired corpses now covering the Earth...

Hopefully a majority of them fall into the Ocean...which is most likely.

[Applepie_Svk]

MegaSovereign wrote...
Two of the endings have you defeat the Reapers. One of them (synthesis) lets you have a compromise with them to secure peace.

Living Reapers doesn't change the fact that they were still defeated.

No they weren´t, It was Catalyst which paint a colors and it was on Shepard if it like it or not - if Shepard refuse colors than everyone died - and next cycle agreed with Catalyst´s agenda (what said twitter canon).

pirate1802 wrote...

Seival wrote...

Control. It's better to have Shepard-Catalyst, than some kind of sleeping time-bomb.

...But this is just my opinion of course

I was asking Applepie since he said basically all the RGB options are playing into the reaper's hands. 

P.S: This thread has recovered nicely after the initial troll attack.

 

Best way is to destroy each Reaper and Mass Relay technology because everything is part of Catalyst´s solution and everywhere is present Catalyst. With Refuse you will die and let next cycle to pick a colors - simply said it doesn´t matter which one you picked up, Catalyst will be still there behind curtain.
Otherwise leaked intel from Leviathan could head this way.

Like he said: My solution won´t work anymore ... We found a new solution ...

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 08 août 2012 - 05:34 .

[Bizantura]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Gran_Duma wrote...

Rabid haters of the endings remind me why I hate gamers.

Indeed. They just go on and on about the same thing.. on and on and on. 

Both sides go on and on.  One would think there is enough sun for both sides to fit under....