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You have hope. More than you think... [The ULTIMATE endings support thread]


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#51
Seival

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saracen16 wrote...

Ignoring the pile of horse dung being dumped by the trolls, I made the following post before the EC came out, assuming the galactic dark age ending.

This is just my opinion. I LOVED the endings. I thought they were amazing. Why is that? Because they raise many questions. All the races got enough closure: the Krogans were cured of the genophage, and the Quarians and the Geth made peace, etc. I'll use some examples...

- Is Shepard indoctrinated near the end? The dream sequence and the all-too-familiar appearance of the Catalyst leads me to think that is a great possibility. It makes me think that the Reapers are really and truly godly-unstoppable, and can therefore not be destroyed, and all what we've seen afterwards... was an illusion. But maybe only the Catalyst appearing as a boy was an illusion, and everything else was real.

- The Reapers were the good guys? See, that's what scares me: the Catalyst and the Reapers believe that they are doing the best for organic species by preserving them and preventing them from being annihilated by the synthetics they create, in the process most likely destroying the synthetics as well as their masters. Suddenly, Saren doesn't sound like a raving, deluded fanatic, but a savior of organic species... albeit not in the way that most organics want. This pattern is something the Catalyst created, through the construction of the mass relays. Remember what Vendetta said: the universe has seen this cycle repeat itself in the same patterns of evolution and the same valleys of dissolution (something that isn't merely by chance). What if the Reapers and the Catalyst were gods who repeated these things? What if there are larger forces at play that are manipulating how people believe in religion and the like? Notice the similarities between the Asari-Prothean and Salarian-Krogan relationships? Notice anything between the Prothean AI's who rebelled and the Quarian-Geth conflict?

- Was the galaxy saved or destroyed? I thought at once that because the mass relays were destroyed, that meant all solar systems were, too. But they weren't rammed by asteroids. They got destroyed AFTER they POWERED UP and PROPELLED the Crucible transmission to another solar system, a self-propagating chain that was broken as you went along it. The energy stored in the mass relay was used to propel the dissipated Crucible signals arriving at the next solar systems, and after propelling this UNQUANTIFIABLE energy, it shatters in the process, most likely sparing the solar systems as a result. Even scarier is what happens afterwards. Will the Krogans go to war against the Salarians if you cured the genophage? What will Quarian life be like without the Geth and vice-versa? Better yet, what will Quarian life be like when all synthetics are DESTROYED? What will Quarians do without the geth ON RANNOCH? With the Citadel council no more, and space travel a myth, how will my Shepard be remembered by the races of the galaxy?


I wanna add to this my own recent thoughts on the matter:

...I have some interesting thoughts about The Reapers. I believe they can overcome EVERYTHING even their own death. The more advanced you are technologically, the easier it will be to harvest you (remember Protheans?) If you Control them, they continue existing, but become guided by your own Catalyst with its own thoughts on how to protect lesser races. If you Destroy them, they become a "ground" for Galactic Civilization to grow on, which will only lead to the Reapers' resurrection eventually. If you Synthesise, then they literally start to live inside each living being, balancing differences between organics and synthetics. Either way - The Reapers will continue to be "a solution". And it's up to you, what exactly this solution will be: Guarding, or Dictating, or Balancing, or Harvesting.

...Also some interesting thoughts. The Reapers are not just "advanced warships and hasks". The Reapers are Nano-Tech, which organize the surrounding materials to have specific half-organic-half-synthetic forms. Nano-Tech, which has one collective mind - The Catalyst. Living, thinking being consisting of trillions of microscopical formations, mixed with harvested material, and shaped in forms of Warships and Hasks... I think it's a good basis for a new story in ME Universe :)


Modifié par Seival, 05 août 2012 - 10:57 .


#52
Mordak55

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 Sorry to say that I cant post in support of the endings, although the EC does make them better. But I hope your thread is not hijacked by haters. 

You have as much right to like them as I do to not like them. I will thank Bioware for the other 90% of the game though. 

#53
phat0817

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D24O wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

I really, really don't like that picture or the caption.

But I support threads that aren't filled with unhealthy negativity and ignorance.

Hopefully this thread doesn't turn into a spamfest.


You must be new here.

Last time Sevial made this thread it got spammed to oblivion by rustling jimmies pictures, and I got banned.



HAHAHA i remenber that i got banned as well :lol::lol:

#54
Seival

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bigmass41 wrote...

CrazyRah wrote...

I personally might despise the endings and probably always will think of them as crap but kudos for this thread and for the love of everything good in the world i would appreciate if this thread didn't get swarmed in hate. Let everyone that like the endings have one place to discuss it without having to read endless posts of just hate.


Here, here. Sieval, I might have been wrong about u, sorry. Image IPB


And I think I owe an appology to all Synthesisers and Destroyers who got some unplesent replies about their opinions from me... I'm sorry.

#55
Tazzmission

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wile it wasnt perfect i was pretty damn happy with the ec

now me personally if it was in the release of the game i think we all wouldnt be so butthurt about it still

#56
Seival

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HagarIshay wrote...

Haaa Seival. You never seize to amaze me with your guts. The haters will be all over you and this thread.

Keep up the good work.


Thanks. I will :)

Modifié par Seival, 05 août 2012 - 11:27 .


#57
Seival

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maaaze wrote...

To be quite honest I can´t even imagine a other way how it could have ended...that would not be a let down on comparison with what we have now.

The post EC-endings are sad, happy, sweet and disturbing at the same time...
even before the EC they were thought provoking and elevated the Series to a new Level...forcing you to put things into perspective.

thanks for creating this thread.


No problem :)

#58
Seival

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Eain wrote...

Maaaze, here's how it could've ended:

It could've used plot elements from the previous games to make those adventures seem meaningful. It could've been written in such a way that what we did during the defeat of Sovereign and the Collectors would actually contribute to the overall plan to stop the Reapers. The problems with the endings, therefore, isn't just with the endings themselves. It's far more structural: the plot should've been written from the start to lead towards a certain conclusion.

Given how it wasn't, however, yes the Crucible narrative was the only way possible. They wrote themselves into a corner and had to resort to a convenient superweapon to win the day. But even if you like this plot you have to agree with me that a trilogy in which each installment contributed meaningfully to the overall goal of stopping the villain would've been better.

Consider that Mac Walters literally told us that 99.5% of ME3 was thought up after ME2, and that 99.5% of ME2 was thought up after ME1. Walters said, -literally-, that the only thing they knew about ME3 while making ME2 was that Shepard was going to fight the Reapers.

In effect that means that they knew as much as we did about the third part.

That's just not right. More planning and less making things up on the spot would've gone a long way.


I'm afraid in this case BioWare would made ME Trilogy for 10 years and as one persistent game. It's extremely expencive and risky... And they have to pay salary to their workers.

#59
Allanon86

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My comment previous EC: This is a joke, right?? RIGHT???
After EC: End is fixed now, ok! But where are the answers for all the plot holes?

I'm not a "hater", I'm just a confused player.

Bioware in all the trilogy explained perfectly any situation or choice and any piece of the puzzle fit perfectly in the story. But after the beam there are a lot of question that they never filled up even with the EC.

I'm not talking about minimum details like "where is my armor after the beam?", I was hitten by a giant beam!! I'm glad it worked to save my ***.

I'm talking about details like infinite ammo, Immortal keepers in the citadel, Anderson ninja version (he cant walk but can go inside the final room before Shepard, based from the conversation was impossible to not see him), same for the IM, not talking to anyone about the final choice. Hey Hacket the catalyst just offered the sintesys solution, what do you think about it?

After the choice everything start to be normal again. but that 15-20 minutes are, for me, like a jenga tower that is falling down.

A lot of people are satisfied without an explanation like not everyone is really intrested to know who killed Kennedy.
It's ok for me, I'll not blame you for that, But call me curios, perfectionist or whatever, I want to know the reasons and the answers for this plot holes.

Peace.

#60
PrimeOfValor

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Seival wrote...

bigmass41 wrote...

CrazyRah wrote...

I personally might despise the endings and probably always will think of them as crap but kudos for this thread and for the love of everything good in the world i would appreciate if this thread didn't get swarmed in hate. Let everyone that like the endings have one place to discuss it without having to read endless posts of just hate.


Here, here. Sieval, I might have been wrong about u, sorry. Image IPB


And I think I owe an appology to all Synthesisers and Destroyers who got some unplesent replies about their opinions from me... I'm sorry.


There is always a way to create Peace, my friend.

Modifié par bigmass41, 06 août 2012 - 12:01 .


#61
Seival

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Allanon86 wrote...

My comment previous EC: This is a joke, right?? RIGHT???
After EC: End is fixed now, ok! But where are the answers for all the plot holes?

I'm not a "hater", I'm just a confused player.

Bioware in all the trilogy explained perfectly any situation or choice and any piece of the puzzle fit perfectly in the story. But after the beam there are a lot of question that they never filled up even with the EC.

I'm not talking about minimum details like "where is my armor after the beam?", I was hitten by a giant beam!! I'm glad it worked to save my ***.

I'm talking about details like infinite ammo, Immortal keepers in the citadel, Anderson ninja version (he cant walk but can go inside the final room before Shepard, based from the conversation was impossible to not see him), same for the IM, not talking to anyone about the final choice. Hey Hacket the catalyst just offered the sintesys solution, what do you think about it?

After the choice everything start to be normal again. but that 15-20 minutes are, for me, like a jenga tower that is falling down.

A lot of people are satisfied without an explanation like not everyone is really intrested to know who killed Kennedy.
It's ok for me, I'll not blame you for that, But call me curios, perfectionist or whatever, I want to know the reasons and the answers for this plot holes.

Peace.




Ninja-Anderson? You must be kidding :)

I think BioWare can fix such bugs in future patches.

#62
CDRSkyShepard

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I don't support the endings as they stand conceptually. However, I do support the EC and how it has managed to at least give me some emotional closure, if not logical closure.

#63
JeffZero

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Understandable stance, really.

#64
Omega Torsk

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Seival wrote...

Allanon86 wrote...

My comment previous EC: This is a joke, right?? RIGHT???
After EC: End is fixed now, ok! But where are the answers for all the plot holes?

I'm not a "hater", I'm just a confused player.

Bioware in all the trilogy explained perfectly any situation or choice and any piece of the puzzle fit perfectly in the story. But after the beam there are a lot of question that they never filled up even with the EC.

I'm not talking about minimum details like "where is my armor after the beam?", I was hitten by a giant beam!! I'm glad it worked to save my ***.

I'm talking about details like infinite ammo, Immortal keepers in the citadel, Anderson ninja version (he cant walk but can go inside the final room before Shepard, based from the conversation was impossible to not see him), same for the IM, not talking to anyone about the final choice. Hey Hacket the catalyst just offered the sintesys solution, what do you think about it?

After the choice everything start to be normal again. but that 15-20 minutes are, for me, like a jenga tower that is falling down.

A lot of people are satisfied without an explanation like not everyone is really intrested to know who killed Kennedy.
It's ok for me, I'll not blame you for that, But call me curios, perfectionist or whatever, I want to know the reasons and the answers for this plot holes.

Peace.




Ninja-Anderson? You must be kidding :)

I think BioWare can fix such bugs in future patches.

You know... he was born in London.

#65
JeffZero

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Mordak55 wrote...

 Sorry to say that I cant post in support of the endings, although the EC does make them better. But I hope your thread is not hijacked by haters. 

You have as much right to like them as I do to not like them. I will thank Bioware for the other 90% of the game though. 


A very mature stance. Nice to see. :)

#66
Allanon86

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Seival wrote...

Allanon86 wrote...

My comment previous EC: This is a joke, right?? RIGHT???
After EC: End is fixed now, ok! But where are the answers for all the plot holes?

I'm not a "hater", I'm just a confused player.

Bioware in all the trilogy explained perfectly any situation or choice and any piece of the puzzle fit perfectly in the story. But after the beam there are a lot of question that they never filled up even with the EC.

I'm not talking about minimum details like "where is my armor after the beam?", I was hitten by a giant beam!! I'm glad it worked to save my ***.

I'm talking about details like infinite ammo, Immortal keepers in the citadel, Anderson ninja version (he cant walk but can go inside the final room before Shepard, based from the conversation was impossible to not see him), same for the IM, not talking to anyone about the final choice. Hey Hacket the catalyst just offered the sintesys solution, what do you think about it?

After the choice everything start to be normal again. but that 15-20 minutes are, for me, like a jenga tower that is falling down.

A lot of people are satisfied without an explanation like not everyone is really intrested to know who killed Kennedy.
It's ok for me, I'll not blame you for that, But call me curios, perfectionist or whatever, I want to know the reasons and the answers for this plot holes.

Peace.




Ninja-Anderson? You must be kidding :)

I think BioWare can fix such bugs in future patches.


Yeah! :)

My point was easy, there is just one way in to the final room and thoose characters just appears in the right place in the right time.

My personal theory is the "Time Theory". They changed the ending whitout the time to finish it with all the details they always give to us. The alternate ending was a final fight they want to make with the IM turned into a reaper

This is a page of the fan art book gived with the Delux Edition:

Image IPB

#67
babymoon

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Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Nothing to see here people. Just another one of Hudson's troll posts. Move on.


I lol'd.

#68
Mordak55

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JeffZero wrote...

Mordak55 wrote...

 Sorry to say that I cant post in support of the endings, although the EC does make them better. But I hope your thread is not hijacked by haters. 

You have as much right to like them as I do to not like them. I will thank Bioware for the other 90% of the game though. 


A very mature stance. Nice to see. :)


Cheers

#69
CDRSkyShepard

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JeffZero wrote...

Mordak55 wrote...

 Sorry to say that I cant post in support of the endings, although the EC does make them better. But I hope your thread is not hijacked by haters. 

You have as much right to like them as I do to not like them. I will thank Bioware for the other 90% of the game though. 


A very mature stance. Nice to see. :)

Agreed, both Mordak and Jeff.

I thank BioWare for a story that literally made me care about things again. I'll never forget that. I'll also never forget how awesome the staff was at SDCC at answering questions and addressing concerns.

#70
Y3Y00

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I've never been perceptive. I don't look attentively to heed plot-holes or discrepancies, I do not over-analyze and I always remember it's meant to be entertainment, thus I loved the endings, old and new, especially now with EC, I got awesome AI Shepard speech. Go Team Control! <3

#71
DirtyPhoenix

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double post..

Modifié par pirate1802, 06 août 2012 - 01:14 .


#72
DirtyPhoenix

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wizardryforever wrote...

Hmm.  While I wouldn't say that I loved the endings, they definitely feel better now than they did at release.  The EC addressed the main concern I had with the endings, that they don't give any kind of epilogue to show the impact of your choices.  Now that they do, they are. . . adequate.  Not perfect by any means, but good enough.  So yeah, I'm in general support of the endings as they stand.


This is my view on the EC and ME3 endings in general as well.
They're not perfect by any means, but post-EC; they're good enough. Pre-EC they were just garbage. Cheers Seival, here's hoping the thread doesn't get drowned by haters.

Modifié par pirate1802, 06 août 2012 - 01:13 .


#73
jeffyg93

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I wouldn't call the ending perfect by any means, but the Extended Cut is enough for me to be satisfied enough to replay the series. The original endings left me confused and expecting more, but the Extended Cut helped with most of that.

#74
DirtyPhoenix

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Allanon86 wrote...

My personal theory is the "Time Theory". They changed the ending whitout the time to finish it with all the details they always give to us. The alternate ending was a final fight they want to make with the IM turned into a reaper

This is a page of the fan art book gived with the Delux Edition:

Image IPB


Yes I subscribe to the Time Theory. It explains a lot. Like how you got Liara's flashback regardless of who your LI was (except VS), it was rectified in the EC. Tell me it wasn't because of time constraints.<_<

About this TIM-bossfight, I'm a little divided. One one hand I was disappointed not to see an actual bossfight, but I really liked how the encounter with TIM is a sort-of mental bossfight if you may.. Loved his renegade death scene. Don't like this idea of TIM becoming a monster very much though. :|

Modifié par pirate1802, 06 août 2012 - 01:18 .


#75
shepdog77

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Awesome thread! I was left confused and upset by the Original Endings, but thought the themes presented had some potential. Then the EC came out and elevated the endings to the epic quality the rest of the game had. I can now safely say ME3 is my favorite game of all time, followed closely by ME2. :)

Modifié par shepdog77, 06 août 2012 - 01:26 .