1214 réponses à ce sujet

[DirtyPhoenix]

I know what the catalyst says, I have recorded his full convo. He says the citadel is his home, which doesn't exclude the possibility of having other "homes". We know virtually zero about the kid in the first place. The fact that he says the citadel is part of him, and he is the Reaper collective definitely indicates he has other "parts" we haven't seen or don't know about. A part of him can reside inside each Reaper.

[LiarasShield]

Pitznik wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

no silly it isn't just headcannon it is you being stuborn or blind the tube that you shoot with your pistol is apart of the crucible or the citadel that you're destroying it is causing damage to the citadel or the crucible its self before causing a huge explosion and causing the red beam to burst outward across the galaxy their is only a limit to how much foolishness I'm able to put up with you about

Going with your ridiculous logic destroying the Citadel would also kill all the Geth and AIs. You can't make an analogy here, destroy destroys both Reapers and the Citadel, but that doesn't mean destroying the Citadel would destroy Reapers. You are confusing cause and effect.

LiarasShield wrote...

And yes the geth are beings doesn't even matter about

They are. It still doesn't make killing 7 billion humans better than killing less number of Geth, even if that would make the Geth extinct.

LiarasShield wrote...

Because shepards body has a lot of synthetics from project lazarus or are you going to just blindjump that one to?

Shepard has plenty of tech in him, but those aren't any more synthetic life than your PC. Low EMS red destroys all tech, Shepard dies. High EMS red destroys only Reapers and synthetic life. Shepard lives.

Unless you think Shepard is synthetic life, but like I said before, I can't discuss with your headcanon, it is yours. Just like official ME is Bioware's, and they decide if it is possible and reasonable to destroy the Citadel, or not.

Well wether you understand it or not your choice in destroy is slowing destroying the citadel and crucible otherwise you don't pay attention enough to details

Also making sure no races go extinct I can live with that in war their will always be causulties but at least no race goes extinct and everybody both man woman and child and machine would have a future


And to revitalize shepards organs and body tissues shepard has alot of synthetic implants in his or her body destroy would cause the very synthetic implants that keep shepard alive to stop working and to cause not only the damage from the explosion but the synthetics keeping him or her alive would fail to that is another reason why they don't show more then a gasp because it would be near impossiable for shepard to live

Also I can handle losing earth or our solar system because each race won't go extinct and all the survivors would be able to carry on it is better then refuse and your destroy option


And you using the crucible through the citadel is what destroys the geth friend


Or how should I say you using your untested gun is what causes the destruction of the geth

Modifié par LiarasShield, 21 août 2012 - 03:37 .

[Pitznik]

LiarasShield wrote...

Well wether you understand it or not your choice in destroy is slowing destroying the citadel and crucible otherwise you don't pay attention enough to details

Destroy destroy both the Citadel and the Reapers. But that doesn't mean destroying the Citadel would destroy the Reapers too... it is RED BEAM that kills Reapers, not the Citadel's explosion.

LiarasShield wrote...

Also making sure no races go extinct I can live with that in war their will always be causulties but at least no race goes extinct and everybody both man woman and child and machine would have a future

There is no inherent value in survival of the species itself. People aren't some ideas, but people. Better to save 100 Geth than 2 humans. Better to save 100 humans than 2 Geth. Doesn't matter if those are the last humans, or last Geth. You're not some kind of ecologist trying to keep balance in nature, you are deciding about the life and death of people.

LiarasShield wrote...

And to revitalize shepards organs and body tissues shepard has alot of synthetic implants in his or her body destroy would cause the very synthetic implants that keep shepard alive to stop working and to cause not only the damage from the explosion but the synthetics keeping him or her alive would fail to that is another reason why they don't show more then a gasp because it would be near impossiable for shepard to live

Synthetic implants aren't synthetic life. Synthetic life is software, not hardware. Killing EDI's body doesn't kill EDI, wiping the program that is EDI kills her. Same with Geth. Shepard doesn't have anything like this. Like you see in the destroy ending high EMS the only real physical damage is explosion on the citadel and overloaded Relays - ships of the fleet, despite being full of computers, don't get destroyed.

[LiarasShield]

Pitznik wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

Well wether you understand it or not your choice in destroy is slowing destroying the citadel and crucible otherwise you don't pay attention enough to details

Destroy destroy both the Citadel and the Reapers. But that doesn't mean destroying the Citadel would destroy the Reapers too... it is RED BEAM that kills Reapers, not the Citadel's explosion.

LiarasShield wrote...

Also making sure no races go extinct I can live with that in war their will always be causulties but at least no race goes extinct and everybody both man woman and child and machine would have a future

There is no inherent value in survival of the species itself. People aren't some ideas, but people. Better to save 100 Geth than 2 humans. Better to save 100 humans than 2 Geth. Doesn't matter if those are the last humans, or last Geth. You're not some kind of ecologist trying to keep balance in nature, you are deciding about the life and death of people.

LiarasShield wrote...

And to revitalize shepards organs and body tissues shepard has alot of synthetic implants in his or her body destroy would cause the very synthetic implants that keep shepard alive to stop working and to cause not only the damage from the explosion but the synthetics keeping him or her alive would fail to that is another reason why they don't show more then a gasp because it would be near impossiable for shepard to live

Synthetic implants aren't synthetic life. Synthetic life is software, not hardware. Killing EDI's body doesn't kill EDI, wiping the program that is EDI kills her. Same with Geth. Shepard doesn't have anything like this. Like you see in the destroy ending high EMS the only real physical damage is explosion on the citadel and overloaded Relays - ships of the fleet, despite being full of computers, don't get destroyed.

The destruction of the tube from the crucible that is apart of the citadel is what causes the red beam to come fourth from your explosion you causing the damage to the citadel from using the crucible and shooting the red tube is causing damage to the citadel and the damage it causes gets transfer into the red beam from the crucible your still destroying the citadel in order to destroy the reapers but because of the crucible componet it kills the geth

and if the catalyst is the reaper collective and it mostly inhabits the citadel the destruction of the citadel without the crucible componets may still destroy the reapers or set the reapers free and be able to listen to diplomacy from shepard after the being that controls them is gone and you don't have to lose the geth shepard

Could still die from hack and forces fireing on the citadel but if the explosion destroys the citadel without activating the crucible componet then the geth could still live and at very worst we only lose earths solar system

And yes making sure all the races live is more right to me then your need to absolutely kill the geth and to have false hope in a alive shepard when his or her body is made of half synthetics just to  bring him or her back to life the first time

Yeah I think I'm done wasteing my time with you at least for now anyway I can have this pointless debate with you later

And before you try to counter argue

Shepard took the explosion straight to the face the energy beam came fourth like not even 1 foot away from him or her and then shepards bodys entering earths atmospheric and his or her body dieing from lack of oxygen burning up from the heat or from his or her synthetics failing yeah you'll have a weak counter arguement to fight me back with

Modifié par LiarasShield, 21 août 2012 - 03:58 .

[Pitznik]

LiarasShield wrote...

The destruction of the tube from the crucible that is apart of the citadel is what causes the red beam to come fourth from your explosion you causing the damage to the citadel from using the crucible and shooting the red tube is causing damage to the citadel and the damage it causes gets transfer into the red beam from the crucible your still destroying the citadel in order to destroy the reapers but because of the crucible componet it kills the geth

That is unlikely, if the Crucible is really just a power source. But more or less, that's how it is.

LiarasShield wrote...

and if the catalyst is the reaper collective and it mostly inhabits the citadel the destruction of the citadel without the crucible componets may still destroy the reapers or set the reapers free and be able to listen to diplomacy from shepard after the being that controls them is gone and you don't have to lose the geth shepard

And this is, again, your headcanon.

LiarasShield wrote...

Yeah I think I'm done wasteing my time with you at least for now anyway I can have this pointless debate with you later

Wouldn't be pointless without you repeating all the same stuff over and over again with nothing to support it.

[LiarasShield]

Pitznik wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

The destruction of the tube from the crucible that is apart of the citadel is what causes the red beam to come fourth from your explosion you causing the damage to the citadel from using the crucible and shooting the red tube is causing damage to the citadel and the damage it causes gets transfer into the red beam from the crucible your still destroying the citadel in order to destroy the reapers but because of the crucible componet it kills the geth

That is unlikely, if the Crucible is really just a power source. But more or less, that's how it is.

LiarasShield wrote...

and if the catalyst is the reaper collective and it mostly inhabits the citadel the destruction of the citadel without the crucible componets may still destroy the reapers or set the reapers free and be able to listen to diplomacy from shepard after the being that controls them is gone and you don't have to lose the geth shepard

And this is, again, your headcanon.

LiarasShield wrote...

Yeah I think I'm done wasteing my time with you at least for now anyway I can have this pointless debate with you later

Wouldn't be pointless without you repeating all the same stuff over and over again with nothing to support it.

I've provided more then enough details you think I'm evil for refuse but you try justify saving lives when you purposely kill the geth despite their potentially being another way to save them

And yes keeping all the races alive is what I would've done

And yes their is more to believe that the destruction of the citadel may benefit shepard more then just the crucible you think killing the geth was neccessary

Their is no realistic way shepard could've survived from the explosion to the face the oxygen in our atmosphere would've burned up shepards body and the failure of shepard synthetics their is no way that he or she could've lived case point and finish

It is your headcannon to believe that shepard lived it is your headcannon to believe their couldn't have been another way and it is your headcannon to think the geths dead was neccessary when to me it wasn't

[Pitznik]

LiarasShield wrote...

I've provided more then enough details you think I'm evil for refuse but you try justify saving lives when you purposely kill the geth despite their potentially being another way to save them

I'm not taking the risk. Better person would pick Control. But my galaxy is absolutely Reaperless. No chance of any AI going mad, synthesis not working. There are just no Reapers. If someone is going to kill someone else, it won't be Reapers, just good ol' wars.

LiarasShield wrote...
And yes keeping all the races alive is what I would've done

"Races" are made of people. Better save people than "races". Unless you feel like playing God. This not a nearly extinct genus of mice, but thinking, feeling, self aware people.

LiarasShield wrote...

And yes their is more to believe that the destruction of the citadel may benefit shepard more then just the crucible you think killing the geth was neccessary

You can't do it. You don't know what would happen if you could do it. I can't say Shepard knows for sure what will happen when he picks Destroy, but that at least he can do, and many people were deeply convinced that Crucible will help. So again, you are wrong.

LiarasShield wrote...
Their is no realistic way shepard could've survived from the explosion to the face the oxygen in our atmosphere would've burned up shepards body and the failure of shepard synthetics their is no way that he or she could've lived case point and finish

What atmosphere? Shepard is on the Citadel. I have no idea how he survived, but there is nothing to believe tech inside him was destroyed, if tech on the Normandy/Sword Fleet is intact. People survive worse explosions, even in the real life. And this is the story, where what happens depends only on the author.

LiarasShield wrote...
It is your headcannon to believe that shepard lived it is your headcannon to believe their couldn't have been another way and it is your headcannon to think the geths dead was neccessary when to me it wasn't

Shepard lives at the end of the ME3. Period. Dead people don't breathe. He can die after, as probability suggests. or he can live, as the narrative suggests, headcanon starts there.

Killing the Geth was necessary to -destroy- the Reapers. Fact, not an opinion, not headcanon.

Was it the best way to -stop- the Reapers? I think it was, but that is where opinions start.

Modifié par Pitznik, 21 août 2012 - 04:17 .

[Seival]

pirate1802 wrote...

Seival wrote...

 I created a poll about favorite ending: http://social.biowar...72/polls/38622/ 

...Please, vote

You should have put the poll as "Among those who like the ending, which ending is the most liked..". Putting the none of above option just means haturz are gonna spam it :|

I added "dislike" option for haters, so their hate will end in the poll, and will not spread to the rest of the thread

Modifié par Seival, 21 août 2012 - 08:51 .

[Seival]

pirate1802 wrote...

I know what the catalyst says, I have recorded his full convo. He says the citadel is his home, which doesn't exclude the possibility of having other "homes". We know virtually zero about the kid in the first place. The fact that he says the citadel is part of him, and he is the Reaper collective definitely indicates he has other "parts" we haven't seen or don't know about. A part of him can reside inside each Reaper.

I see the Catalyst as an entity which exists inside each Reaper Warship, Hask, Mass Relay, and inside the Citadel ofcourse. That's why you need galactic-scale explosions to change the original-Catalyst's order of things.

[Seival]

...Also I strongly believe that nothing in the end could be done without the original Catalyst's approval. So we didn't "beat the Reapers", but convinced the original Catalyst it was wrong with its "Cycles-Solution".

[Ieldra]

Seival wrote...
...Also I strongly believe that nothing in the end could be done without the original Catalyst's approval. So we didn't "beat the Reapers", but convinced the original Catalyst it was wrong with its "Cycles-Solution".

Convinced....or reprogrammed? What's the role of the Crucible? Or is it just Shepard's being there that made the Catalyst accept that its solutions won't work anymore?

Also, what's the "original Catalyst"? Do you mean the entity originally created, before it expanded its consciousness by adding Reapers to itself?

[LiarasShield]

Pitznik wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

I've provided more then enough details you think I'm evil for refuse but you try justify saving lives when you purposely kill the geth despite their potentially being another way to save them

I'm not taking the risk. Better person would pick Control. But my galaxy is absolutely Reaperless. No chance of any AI going mad, synthesis not working. There are just no Reapers. If someone is going to kill someone else, it won't be Reapers, just good ol' wars.

LiarasShield wrote...
And yes keeping all the races alive is what I would've done

"Races" are made of people. Better save people than "races". Unless you feel like playing God. This not a nearly extinct genus of mice, but thinking, feeling, self aware people.

LiarasShield wrote...

And yes their is more to believe that the destruction of the citadel may benefit shepard more then just the crucible you think killing the geth was neccessary

You can't do it. You don't know what would happen if you could do it. I can't say Shepard knows for sure what will happen when he picks Destroy, but that at least he can do, and many people were deeply convinced that Crucible will help. So again, you are wrong.

LiarasShield wrote...
Their is no realistic way shepard could've survived from the explosion to the face the oxygen in our atmosphere would've burned up shepards body and the failure of shepard synthetics their is no way that he or she could've lived case point and finish

What atmosphere? Shepard is on the Citadel. I have no idea how he survived, but there is nothing to believe tech inside him was destroyed, if tech on the Normandy/Sword Fleet is intact. People survive worse explosions, even in the real life. And this is the story, where what happens depends only on the author.

LiarasShield wrote...
It is your headcannon to believe that shepard lived it is your headcannon to believe their couldn't have been another way and it is your headcannon to think the geths dead was neccessary when to me it wasn't

Shepard lives at the end of the ME3. Period. Dead people don't breathe. He can die after, as probability suggests. or he can live, as the narrative suggests, headcanon starts there.

Killing the Geth was necessary to -destroy- the Reapers. Fact, not an opinion, not headcanon.

Was it the best way to -stop- the Reapers? I think it was, but that is where opinions start.

I am not wrong and you're not right it is just the different opinons and ideas that we have towards the endings since we see them quite differently

But no the explosion to the face shepard and the remains of the crucible or citadel burning away at our atmosphere The whole reason they even do the gasp seen is to give a little hope to the players that did all their hardwork they don't want to flat out say that shepard died in this ending or it would ****** even more people off

But no their is too much going against shepard surviving in this ending and you can make head or tails wether its shepard last breath or him or her survivng too much damage to shepards body and the crucible happend to believe that he or she lived

Unlike avoiding some of the rubble or debree from fighting saren near the citadel which by the way is much more believeable

Hell even shepard surviving from his or her death from mass effect 2 is more believe because Acheera was a frozen planet with little oxygen or little atmospheric pressure it didn't burn up shepards body during impact and shepards helmet kept enough of his or her brains intact so that they could use the synthetics to regenerate the rest of shepards organs.

Much more believeable then in destroy

Modifié par LiarasShield, 22 août 2012 - 12:37 .

[DirtyPhoenix]

The breath scene is labelled in the game file as "Shepard_alive"

[LiarasShield]

pirate1802 wrote...

The breath scene is labelled in the game file as "Shepard_alive"

That doesn't mean that shepard lives just because of a name file and if they really wanted shepard to live they probably would've done more then the half breath if they wanted shepard to live and shepard dies in every other ending their is too much that happend to shepard and the citadel and crucible for shepard to live to make sense in the destroy ending

[Ieldra]

LiarasShield wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...
The breath scene is labelled in the game file as "Shepard_alive"

That doesn't mean that shepard lives just because of a name file and if they really wanted shepard to live they probably would've done more then the half breath if they wanted shepard to live and shepard dies in every other ending their is too much that happend to shepard and the citadel and crucible for shepard to live to make sense in the destroy ending

It's been 100% clear right from the start that the scene is meant to say that Shepard is alive while being open to the interpretation that he isn't if you absolutely want that. Why else include this at all? Your assertion that Shepard dies canonically makes no sense at all. I find it astonishing how people stick to implausible negative interpretations just so they can go on hating. 

[LiarasShield]

Ieldra2 wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...
The breath scene is labelled in the game file as "Shepard_alive"

That doesn't mean that shepard lives just because of a name file and if they really wanted shepard to live they probably would've done more then the half breath if they wanted shepard to live and shepard dies in every other ending their is too much that happend to shepard and the citadel and crucible for shepard to live to make sense in the destroy ending

It's been 100% clear right from the start that the scene is meant to say that Shepard is alive while being open to the interpretation that he isn't if you absolutely want that. Why else include this at all? Your assertion that Shepard dies canonically makes no sense at all. I find it astonishing how people stick to implausible negative interpretations just so they can go on hating. 

Did you not pay attention to what happend dear SHEPARD TOOK THE EXPLOSION STRAIGHT ON ALSO THE RED BEAM DESTROYS MOST SYNTHETICS

AND HALF OF THE SYNTHETICS THAT BROUGHT SHEPARD BACK TO LIFE OR KEEP SHEPARD ALIVE TOOK 

You know project lazarus that brought shepard back from the git go

THE FULL EXPLOSION PLUS THE RED BEAM THAT FRIES THE SYNTHETIC IMPLANTS PLUS THE CITADEL OR 

THE CRUCIBLE BURNING UP IN OUR ATMOSPHERE MUST I REALLY GO ON HOW IMPOSSIABLE THIS ALL IS

I mean I would've wanted shepard to live to but all the cases and all the implications each time shows that shepard pretty much died its just false hope or hope at all to keep us going is what it really is


Unless you can give a truely explainable reason for how shepard survived which I would love to see he or she pretty much died and it hurts even more seeing the name not get put up because they still think shepard is alive when he or she may be dead.


And don't use hidden game files or the half breath cutscene to back up the excuse of shepard living either

Modifié par LiarasShield, 22 août 2012 - 01:18 .

[DirtyPhoenix]

The red beam destroys Synthetic life, not everything synthetic. Its amazing how any people miss it. For example, EDI=Synthetic life, Normandy=Synthetic structure=/=Synthetic life. Hence EDI dies but Normandy survives.

Not everything the Catalyst says is accurate, they need to be taken with a pinch of salt.

[DirtyPhoenix]

The game file is not hidden, its clear as daylight if one knows where to look! they clearly wanted to satisfy both those who wanted Shepard to survive, while at the same time also implying he could have died. A bad move, but that's what their motive is. It's up to you what you want to interpret.

[Taboo]

Authorial intent tells you what you need to know about Shepard surviving.

I really wish people would pick Destroy for OTHER reasons though.

[LiarasShield]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Authorial intent tells you what you need to know about Shepard surviving.

I really wish people would pick Destroy for OTHER reasons though.

Yeah so we can kill the geth massively damage the mass relays and destroy the reapers who had knowledge to build or repair them in the first place it gives me so many reasons to pick destroy right

Modifié par LiarasShield, 22 août 2012 - 01:29 .

[DirtyPhoenix]

I knew this would draw you in. ;D

[DirtyPhoenix]

LiarasShield wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Authorial intent tells you what you need to know about Shepard surviving.

I really wish people would pick Destroy for OTHER reasons though.

Yeah so we can kill the geth massively damage the mass relays and destroy the reapers who had knowledge to build or repair them in the first place it gives me so many reasons to pick destroy right

Big risk.. but the priiiizeeeee!

[LiarasShield]

pirate1802 wrote...

I knew this would draw you in. ;D

Shepard took to much damage from the destroy ending wether you count the synthetic implants or not he or she took way too much damage for it to be believeable

[Taboo]

LiarasShield wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Authorial intent tells you what you need to know about Shepard surviving.

I really wish people would pick Destroy for OTHER reasons though.

Yeah so we can kill the geth massively damage the mass relays and destroy the reapers who had knowledge to build or repair them in the first place it gives me so many reasons to pick destroy right

No. You might pick Destroy because you believe that you want all life to determinate as they see fit. Synthetic and Organic. That's one of the driving forces behind my choosing of it.

The Relays are rebuilt regardless. Hackett states this.

And depending on who your Shepard is, they may very well feel bad about the Geth. Mine does, and he plans on taking responsibility for it. The same goes for EDI.

[LiarasShield]

Taboo-XX wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Authorial intent tells you what you need to know about Shepard surviving.

I really wish people would pick Destroy for OTHER reasons though.

Yeah so we can kill the geth massively damage the mass relays and destroy the reapers who had knowledge to build or repair them in the first place it gives me so many reasons to pick destroy right

No. You might pick Destroy because you believe that you want all life to determinate as they see fit. Synthetic and Organic. That's one of the driving forces behind my choosing of it.

The Relays are rebuilt regardless. Hackett states this.

And depending on who your Shepard is, they may very well feel bad about the Geth. Mine does, and he plans on taking responsibility for it. The same goes for EDI.

um no dear friend hackett believes they can repair the mass relays it is much different then saying we can and it isn't shown on any of the slides