1214 réponses à ce sujet

[Pitznik]

Oransel wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

Oransel wrote...

bad game is bad

And good game is good. Flawed in few important ways, yes, but still good overall.

Yeah agree about ME2 on that part. ME3 is bad, though.

I was talking about ME1, actually.

[Seival]

I think that ME1, ME2, and ME3 can't be considered as separate games.

[Seival]

Oransel wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

Oransel wrote...

bad game is bad

And good game is good. Flawed in few important ways, yes, but still good overall.

Yeah agree about ME2 on that part. ME3 is bad, though.

Even if you don't like the final, you shouldn't judge the entire story only by its endings.

[DirtyPhoenix]

Oransel wrote...

bad game is bad

Thanks of bumping the thread though.

[Seival]

You see, even haters can make something good sometimes

[Seival]

Pitznik wrote...

Seival wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

Seival wrote...

...I don't really understand why some people still think that Crucible "reprogrammed" the Catalyst.

It had to. In other case Catalyst wouldn't accept Destroy or Control as viable solutions.

Shepard can easily sacrifice herself for a greater good, so why the Catalyst can't? AIs don't even have a fear. They just do what they think will be preferrable.

...Well, and you can't reprogram anything using a giant battery.

Of course he can, as long as the presented outcome is superior to his own solution. But it isn't. Only synthesis is.

The original Catalyst itself admitted that it's solution doesn't work anymore. It has no desire to be replaced, but see the great potential in Shepard's personality and way of thinking. If we analize the original Catalyst's point of view, then we will see strong Synthesis>Control>Destroy>Refusal line of behaviour.

[Mazebook]

Seival wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

Seival wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

Seival wrote...

...I don't really understand why some people still think that Crucible "reprogrammed" the Catalyst.

It had to. In other case Catalyst wouldn't accept Destroy or Control as viable solutions.

Shepard can easily sacrifice herself for a greater good, so why the Catalyst can't? AIs don't even have a fear. They just do what they think will be preferrable.

...Well, and you can't reprogram anything using a giant battery.

Of course he can, as long as the presented outcome is superior to his own solution. But it isn't. Only synthesis is.

The original Catalyst itself admitted that it's solution doesn't work anymore. It has no desire to be replaced, but see the great potential in Shepard's personality and way of thinking. If we analize the original Catalyst's point of view, then we will see strong Synthesis>Control>Destroy>Refusal line of behaviour.

It does not matter what the Catalyst wants. He is forced (by the crucible itself or by something the crucible activated) to do what ever Shepard chooses to do.

I tend to believe that his comand structure was overriden. most likley a failsave from the creators.
I hope the laviathan can sheed some light on how the reapers are controlled and even on how the catalyst might function.

Modifié par maaaze, 24 août 2012 - 11:51 .

[blueumi]

Seival wrote...

I think that ME1, ME2, and ME3 can't be considered as separate games.

no offence ment but i don't see how you can say that

mass effect 1 and 2 choice had no impact because nothing you did changed anything

mass effect 3 is independent of the other two games because even when i play a mass effect 3 game only or one with saves imported the game remains exactly the same

I killed off the rachni in one of my play throughs of mass effect 1 yet they always are in mass effect 3
in mass effect 2 I destroyed the collector base there should be nothing left of the proto reaaper and yet it is always there

james will tell you what you missed even on a import save game

there are no extra areas for players who did all three games nothing to make them fit fully together

having shepard in court  if you did the arrival dlc only would make this a better game

the focus and feel of this game and it's play style is nothing like the other two games

[DirtyPhoenix]

I dunno, in my first ME3 playthrough I couldn't broker peace because of something I did wrong in ME2, had to go back and replay it.

In a new ME3 game you cannot broker peace, you have to choose one between quarians and the geth.

[Mazebook]

pirate1802 wrote...

I dunno, in my first ME3 playthrough I couldn't broker peace because of something I did wrong in ME2, had to go back and replay it.

In a new ME3 game you cannot broker peace, you have to choose one between quarians and the geth.

also if you care about the characters, ME 1 and 2 had major impact on their fate. Ashley and Kaiden just as one example.

[DirtyPhoenix]

Yes maaaze, and also, if you start a new ME3 game you get Wreav the **** instead of Wrex the awesome. Eve dies no matter what. I started a new ME3 game just to see what plays differently. There were lots.

[Mazebook]

I think even if the main plotpoints don´t change that much...the change lies in the different implications and emotional punch.
The Context of the Genophage mission changes drastically based on your decisions.
Also the results of the rachni queen are dramatically different in their conclusion.
I think Bioware did their best with the resources given without making a game 10 times the size.
Which we all would have liked but is just not feasible.

[Seival]

maaaze wrote...

Seival wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

Seival wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

Seival wrote...

...I don't really understand why some people still think that Crucible "reprogrammed" the Catalyst.

It had to. In other case Catalyst wouldn't accept Destroy or Control as viable solutions.

Shepard can easily sacrifice herself for a greater good, so why the Catalyst can't? AIs don't even have a fear. They just do what they think will be preferrable.

...Well, and you can't reprogram anything using a giant battery.

Of course he can, as long as the presented outcome is superior to his own solution. But it isn't. Only synthesis is.

The original Catalyst itself admitted that it's solution doesn't work anymore. It has no desire to be replaced, but see the great potential in Shepard's personality and way of thinking. If we analize the original Catalyst's point of view, then we will see strong Synthesis>Control>Destroy>Refusal line of behaviour.

It does not matter what the Catalyst wants. He is forced (by the crucible itself or by something the crucible activated) to do what ever Shepard chooses to do.

I tend to believe that his comand structure was overriden. most likley a failsave from the creators.
I hope the laviathan can sheed some light on how the reapers are controlled and even on how the catalyst might function.

Yes, the Catalyst was forced indeed. But I strongly believe it was forced by Shepard's actions, not by the Crucible or anything Crucible could interfere with. Personally, I find such concept just brilliant... as brilliant as talking to TIM in the end instead of fighting a huge boss with a lot of HP.

[DirtyPhoenix]

Seival wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

Seival wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

Seival wrote...

...I don't really understand why some people still think that Crucible "reprogrammed" the Catalyst.

It had to. In other case Catalyst wouldn't accept Destroy or Control as viable solutions.

Shepard can easily sacrifice herself for a greater good, so why the Catalyst can't? AIs don't even have a fear. They just do what they think will be preferrable.

...Well, and you can't reprogram anything using a giant battery.

Of course he can, as long as the presented outcome is superior to his own solution. But it isn't. Only synthesis is.

The original Catalyst itself admitted that it's solution doesn't work anymore. It has no desire to be replaced, but see the great potential in Shepard's personality and way of thinking. If we analize the original Catalyst's point of view, then we will see strong Synthesis>Control>Destroy>Refusal line of behaviour.

I agree with you. Quoting myself from the last page, the post got somehow lost in the melee.

pirate1802 wrote...

here are my views:
I think the crucible didn't physically reprogrammed the catalyst, it made it reassess its priorities, as it said, it "changed the variables". The reapers were the catalyst's "imperfect" solution to its problem. Its ultimate goal was something similar to synthesis. But it was unable to achieve that, for whatever reasons. So, in the meantime he just harvested, which was its plan B.It (the catalyst) has been seeing this superweapon time and again, for the last few cycles. Each time, the device is improved a little from the last time, and each time the reapers are able to stop the thing before its too late. Now, for the first time the thing is completed and is docked into its ass. It sees the inevitable, the writing on the wall. Itrealizes its old solutions (reapers) would no longer work. It says this
much. Even if they stopped the crucible from firing, it was (for the first time ever) in a finished state. The next cycle may well build it again and reach this state. So, it sets out to find a new solution, which are the three ways in the crucible can be used.

Destroy:
Initially it may look like total opposite to what the catalyst has been trying to achieve. But if the catalyst decides to destroy the crucible it achieves nothing the next cycle will just rebuild it. If it decides to play good boi and destroy all synthetics then that solution will be identical to destroy solution, except the reapers live, and the crucibleis intact. The organics are unlikely to let them go because the reapersdestroyed some synthetics, they will likely use the crucible. So, as far as the catalyst is considered, its either destroy now via the crucible, or destroy a few cycles later.

Destroy is similar to resetting the clock. Start fresh, reapers dead, synthetics dead, and organics in possession of plans for a superweapons that can destroy all synthetics if need arises.

Control: The status quo. You become the new catalyst, the old-catalyst hopes you would find a better solution, succeed where he failed.

Synthesis: self-explanatory. Similar to the catalyst's original goal all along, so he supports it whole-heartedly.

Thisis also the reason the catalyst seems pissed if Shepard refuses. It hasbeen shown its old solution doesn't work, it is intent on finding a newone. But since Shepard refused, it has to go back to its old, inefficient solutions.

Also, I believe the real victory was achieved when you docked the crucible into the citadel. It made the catalyst realize its solution is failing and made it reassess the situation. The rest is just you choosing how the aftermath plays out.

Modifié par pirate1802, 26 août 2012 - 03:39 .

[Seival]

Synthesis indeed looks like universal and irreversible solution. But I think it shouldn't be rushed and forced.

ME3 Synthesis is like a revolution. ME3 Destory is like degradation. While Control is the best way for evolution, with Controled Synthesis as an inevitable result.

[Seival]

...Well, and I think Refusal is also a degradation, but not the same kind as Destroy...

Unless the original Catalist will manage to perform Synthesis in the next Cycle itself... So, maybe refuser-Shepard just let the original Catalyst to perform the Synthesis? The Catalyst will aquire Shepard's body no doubt, so it will get a missing key to the Synthesis.

Modifié par Seival, 27 août 2012 - 11:29 .

[Seival]

...I wonder if any refuser considered such possibility

[Seival]

So, I just finished Leviathan DLC...

First of all, I want to say the DLC is amazing, and worth each BioWare Point I spent on it. Secondly, and even more importantly, I liked the DLC as the Control supporter. It rises the value of Control choice a lot in fact.

The new Catalyst will be friendly to all synthetic races and all organic races as well (including Leviathans). So, the Leviathans and the Catalyst will work together (at least in case of Paragon Shepard-Catalyst) to find a solution to organic-synthetic problem, as was intended by the Leviathans before the original Catalyst betrayed them.

And I think, that inevitable solution will be Controled Synthesis, which will not be as chaotic and unpredictable as ending-synthesis.



...Well, and I'm really feel sorry for the Destroyers. No offence, Destroyers.

[Mazebook]

Seival wrote...

So, I just finished Leviathan DLC...

First of all, I want to say the DLC is amazing, and worth each BioWare Point I spent on it. Secondly, and even more importantly, I liked the DLC as the Control supporter. It rises the value of Control choice a lot in fact.

The new Catalyst will be friendly to all synthetic races and all organic races as well (including Leviathans). So, the Leviathans and the Catalyst will work together (at least in case of Paragon Shepard-Catalyst) to find a solution to organic-synthetic problem, as was intended by the Leviathans before the original Catalyst betrayed them.

And I think, that inevitable solution will be Controled Synthesis, which will not be as chaotic and unpredictable as ending-synthesis.



...Well, and I'm really feel sorry for the Destroyers. No offence, Destroyers.

It also ties in pretty much nicely with your post ending DLC idea.

Love the DLC also...pretty much comfirmed most of the stuff i argued for the last 2 months. 

[Seival]

maaaze wrote...

Seival wrote...

So, I just finished Leviathan DLC...

First of all, I want to say the DLC is amazing, and worth each BioWare Point I spent on it. Secondly, and even more importantly, I liked the DLC as the Control supporter. It rises the value of Control choice a lot in fact.

The new Catalyst will be friendly to all synthetic races and all organic races as well (including Leviathans). So, the Leviathans and the Catalyst will work together (at least in case of Paragon Shepard-Catalyst) to find a solution to organic-synthetic problem, as was intended by the Leviathans before the original Catalyst betrayed them.

And I think, that inevitable solution will be Controled Synthesis, which will not be as chaotic and unpredictable as ending-synthesis.



...Well, and I'm really feel sorry for the Destroyers. No offence, Destroyers.

It also ties in pretty much nicely with your post ending DLC idea.

Love the DLC also...pretty much comfirmed most of the stuff i argued for the last 2 months. 

Yes, BioWare did the great job again. They are the best of the best

...And I really hope they will decide to make that post-ending DLC eventually.

[Seival]

I replayed the DLC once more. And I had the same feelings again. Leviathan DLC is just perfect. Especially the underwater part and the dialogue. I think I could replay the dialogue forever, just to watch that conversation again and again

[Seival]

...Just can't stop watching the final scene and dialogue of the DLC. It's REALLY awesome

[Seival]

I really want to learn more about the Leviathans. Here are my thoughts on that race posted in the other topics:

If we will use D&D classifications, then Leviathans can be called True Neutral creatures. More specifically, the ones with way of thinking built only around preserving the balance of nature. They can be evil when needed, and they can be good when needed. And no matter what they are doing, they always wise and reasonable. Such creatures can be trusted.

...And mind-controlling abilities? It's just their way to communicate, and fight. A part of their phisiology. Such abilities shouldn't be feared while they used by reasonable and wise creatures.

I like the Leviathans race. I like them VERY much.

"Dead thralls give no tribute"
"Dead trees give no oxigen"
"Dead rivers give no water"
"Wasted planet gives no life"
...and so on.

That the point. Evil when needed. Good when needed. Protect the Life and Nature Balance at any cost.

They are not "Mind-Flayers". They are "Druids". And their physiology is very similar to Asari (but much more advanced).

Leviathans don't enslave anyone. They coexist with lesser races like a human coexists with bacteria. Did you ever think that all micro-life existing in your own body was enslaved by you? I don't think so.

For the Leviathans, mind-controlling and mental-communicating is as natural as breathing. This makes them unique, but they are not evil by nature. Evil creatures don't seek the ways to preserve life, and protect their thralls from themselves. Leviathans are True Neural creatures. Wise, reasonable, advanced, and misterious.

Modifié par Seival, 01 septembre 2012 - 02:59 .

[Elorin Silverblade]

I liked the underwater part as well, was quite good, Hoping they keep the dlc coming.

[Seival]

I think they will announce the new SP DLC soon enough