142 réponses à ce sujet

[flanny]

Doctor Moustache wrote...

Built before reaper suprise. 

I've always had the nagging question though (one of those lore busters you have to let go for the sake of immersion) why didn't the Reapers get rid of it when they were cleaning out the CItadel and preparing it for the next cycle?  Seems like a pretty obvious thing to do but it just slipped by their supposedly inconcievably advanced minds.  *shrug*

Its similar to the question of why Feros was left the way it was.  Its said in lore all worlds are completely stripped of evidense of past civilization.  Fero's hasn't even suffered from arcetecual collapse, like it wasn't even attacked at all.  Whats up with that? 

Excuse my offtopical vacation.  Just thinking outloud I guess. 

The reapers get all their info on a cycle from the Citadel as there were no records kept on the relay experiments.

as for Feros, the reapers don't try to wipe out all records, they leave evidence of past civs and often leave their own tach there as a trap, this means cycles think the relays and left tech are left by extinct races rather than leaving it as mystery people might try and solve. 

[Doctoglethorpe]

flanny wrote...

Doctor Moustache wrote...

Built before reaper suprise. 

I've always had the nagging question though (one of those lore busters you have to let go for the sake of immersion) why didn't the Reapers get rid of it when they were cleaning out the CItadel and preparing it for the next cycle?  Seems like a pretty obvious thing to do but it just slipped by their supposedly inconcievably advanced minds.  *shrug*

Its similar to the question of why Feros was left the way it was.  Its said in lore all worlds are completely stripped of evidense of past civilization.  Fero's hasn't even suffered from arcetecual collapse, like it wasn't even attacked at all.  Whats up with that? 

Excuse my offtopical vacation.  Just thinking outloud I guess. 

The reapers get all their info on a cycle from the Citadel as there were no records kept on the relay experiments.

as for Feros, the reapers don't try to wipe out all records, they leave evidence of past civs and often leave their own tach there as a trap, this means cycles think the relays and left tech are left by extinct races rather than leaving it as mystery people might try and solve. 

Uh, well idk where you heard that second part.  According to the lore I've read they deliberately try to wipe out all signs of civilization to create clean slates for the next cycle.

As for the first part, they shouldn't need to find data on it to know

Sovereign: "Hmm, miniature relay in here that we didn't put here, deffenitly more then a statue since its got a mass effect core inside... humming and ****... hey Harby should we clean this **** out?" 

Harbinger:  "Eeeehhh **** it, whats the worst harm it could do?"

50k years later, Shepard jumps through it.

Sovereign: "****!  ****!  ****!"

Modifié par Doctor Moustache, 06 août 2012 - 04:53 .

[Samtheman63]

3DandBeyond wrote...

The citadel is a mass relay hub-a mass relay itself. The protheans built a miniature relay on Ilos not on the citadel. The relay on Ilos connected to the Citadel and it was a prototype they were using to figure out relay tech. The receiving relay is the piece of "relay art" that is on the Citadel.  The reapers built the one on the citadel, not the protheans. 

someone talking sense at last

here is your answer

[Doctoglethorpe]

Samtheman63 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

The citadel is a mass relay hub-a mass relay itself. The protheans built a miniature relay on Ilos not on the citadel. The relay on Ilos connected to the Citadel and it was a prototype they were using to figure out relay tech. The receiving relay is the piece of "relay art" that is on the Citadel.  The reapers built the one on the citadel, not the protheans. 

someone talking sense at last

here is your answer

When the hell does anyone ever say that?

[phagus]

"Technically, the Conduit is not simply the miniature prototype relay found on Ilos, but also the Relay Monument itself. The Conduit and the Monument form both ends of a relay system, one relay to send and one to receive." A quote from the mass effect wiki.

The Prothean scientists from Ilos use the Conduit end to reach the Citadel after all but Sovereign, the Catalyst, the Collectors have left for dark space. Meaning the Relay Monument receiver must have been there for them to use. It is likely that since the Reapers took the Citadel first in the Prothean cycle that the Relay Monument was built before they arrived.

If the Relay Monument was built by the Reapers then Soveriegn must have known about it and it must have a sender part other than the one built by the Protheans on Ilos. Why didn't Saren use that instead?

If the Relay Monument was built by the Protheans then when the Reapers took the citadel during the Prothean cycle why didn't they remove it? No other monument from previous races has been left. Also the Catalyst must have watched it being built as he was on the Citadel at the time. Why weren't the Reapers aware of it?

So when the Asari find the Citadel they assume the Relay Monument is a piece of art. Why? When it looks just like an inactive relay and is probably made of the same material as a larger relay. Why didn't they try to activate it as they would with any inactive relay. After all everything on the Citadel was unknown when they first arrived. So it must be masking it's function somehow or being on the Citadel makes everyone stupid, a lesser form of indoctrination perhaps (likely)?

Another quote "The Conduit is a miniature mass relay which the Prothean researchers on Ilos built as a prototype during their experiments into mass relay technology. It is essentially a 'back door' onto the Citadel, which is the hub of the relay network. It has no connection to the rest of the network, making it independent. The 'receiving' relay on the Citadel was mistaken for a piece of Prothean art, the Relay Monument, and was never removed by the Council. It was not completely innocuous - Garrus observes that the keepers never paid much attention to the statue, and Kaidan claims he can hear a low humming noise coming from the 'statue', which makes his teeth tingle - but otherwise the relay was seen as little more than a curiosity by the Citadel races."


The Keepers ignoring may be evidence that the Relay Monument is Prothean not Reaper. A humming noise means it is actively vibrating (interrupting the Keeper signal perhaps) or if Reaper tech giving off a indoctrination signal. So again I ask why wasn't it removed by the Reapers if Prothean? If Reaper where is its sender companion?

Modifié par phagus, 06 août 2012 - 06:26 .

[tyrvas]

Keepers are meant to maintain citadel and activate signal to deep space,
Keepers where hacked by Protheans.
Hack may include command to Keepers to leave Mass Relay Art alone. Or is part of Citadel.

As you said in last quote "Garrus observes that keepers never paid much attention to the statue"

[Doctoglethorpe]

tyrvas wrote...

Keepers are meant to maintain citadel and activate signal to deep space,
Keepers where hacked by Protheans.
Hack may include command to Keepers to leave Mass Relay Art alone. Or is part of Citadel.

As you said in last quote "Garrus observes that keepers never paid much attention to the statue"

But the Keepers and citadel signals were disabled after the Reapers had finished the cycle, cleaned up the citadel and gone back to deep space. 

[phagus]

tyrvas wrote...

Keepers are meant to maintain citadel and activate signal to deep space,
Keepers where hacked by Protheans.
Hack may include command to Keepers to leave Mass Relay Art alone. Or is part of Citadel.

As you said in last quote "Garrus observes that keepers never paid much attention to the statue"

So again I ask why wasn't it removed by the Reapers if Prothean? If Reaper where is its sender companion?

Are you suggesting the Prothean hack made the Reapers (and Keepers) ignore it when they first took the Citadel before the hack took place? What??? Or does it have a Tardis Perception filter so the Reapers, Keepers, Collectors, indoctrinated Protheans cannot see it?

Modifié par phagus, 06 août 2012 - 06:23 .

[Doctoglethorpe]

Maybe they sprayed it with reaper repellant. They traveled in time, poked their heads out the time travel machine's door, saw the Reapers ****ing **** up, then traveled back and sprayed some**** with Reaper-be-gone. The crucible, a few bacon strips and Javik's popsickle coffin.

[3DandBeyond]

phagus wrote...

tyrvas wrote...

Keepers are meant to maintain citadel and activate signal to deep space,
Keepers where hacked by Protheans.
Hack may include command to Keepers to leave Mass Relay Art alone. Or is part of Citadel.

As you said in last quote "Garrus observes that keepers never paid much attention to the statue"

So again I ask why wasn't it removed by the Reapers if Prothean? If Reaper where is its sender pair?

Are you suggesting the Prothean hack made the Reapers (and Keepers) ignore it when they first took the Citadel before the hack took place? What??? Or does it have a Tardis Perception filter so the Reapers, Keepers, Collectors, indoctrinated Protheans cannot see it?

You might as well again be asking why the Prothean beacons and disks and all that other stuff was never removed.

The explanation for it needn't have come about in ME1 but if it was important and since it does raise some valid questions is one thing that should have been made clear by the very end of the story. 

If the protheans created it-Vigil may not have known why they left it alone.  The reapers are the only ones that would know that and Shepard talked to one reaper, mostly before finding the conduit and through Saren later on in the middle of a fight.  The Sovereign was dead.  No way to get any info there.

If it was reaper, it suffers from the same problem.  The sending unit is not explained or explored.  And for clarity's sake the only place it could be explained is when reapers had returned and Shepard had a chance to converse with one, or their daddy star kid.  There was no other logical time to discuss it.

For all we know (pure conjecture) it could be the way keepers get to the citadel or some other thing. It could also have been a device they meant to use to indoctrinate, masking itself as "art".  Hmmmm, the speculation that could arise from this.

Since the reapers didn't remove all prothean tech, they may not have even cared about the mini relay.  Considering they left their own relays laying around they may not have cared about what they might have seen as an homage to their works.

[Zardoc]

Doctor Moustache wrote...

Samtheman63 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

The citadel is a mass relay hub-a mass relay itself. The protheans built a miniature relay on Ilos not on the citadel. The relay on Ilos connected to the Citadel and it was a prototype they were using to figure out relay tech. The receiving relay is the piece of "relay art" that is on the Citadel.  The reapers built the one on the citadel, not the protheans. 

someone talking sense at last

here is your answer

When the hell does anyone ever say that?

And when the hell does anyone ever say the protheans put it there? I always assumed it was common knowledge the Citadel is a Mass Relay itself (seeing how it is downright stated in the game), and it makes sense to believe the relay on the Citadel is the one the Reapers use to get to the Milky Way. Sure speculation, but far away from being a plothole.

[Doctoglethorpe]

Zardoc wrote...

Doctor Moustache wrote...

Samtheman63 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

The citadel is a mass relay hub-a mass relay itself. The protheans built a miniature relay on Ilos not on the citadel. The relay on Ilos connected to the Citadel and it was a prototype they were using to figure out relay tech. The receiving relay is the piece of "relay art" that is on the Citadel.  The reapers built the one on the citadel, not the protheans. 

someone talking sense at last

here is your answer

When the hell does anyone ever say that?

And when the hell does anyone ever say the protheans put it there? I always assumed it was common knowledge the Citadel is a Mass Relay itself (seeing how it is downright stated in the game), and it makes sense to believe the relay on the Citadel is the one the Reapers use to get to the Milky Way. Sure speculation, but far away from being a plothole.

Um.. so the Reapers warp inside the Persidium?

Doh. 


Its a pretty easy safe logical assumption that the entire citadel is a relay but the conduit reciever is a mini relay inside it that can only transport smaller things, you know like exactly what it does in the game. 

Its never specificly said who built it, but its easy to assume the Protheans did since all relays are tied in pairs and the sender relay was deffenitly prothean construction, assuming the reciever is also prothean construction is a very easy one to make at least sans the single fact that the Reapers didn't get rid of it.  But then if the Reapers actually built it then it just creates even more mysteries.  If its Reaper, then it must have a reaper built companion relay.  If it did, then why wouldn't Soverign just use that instead of going through the trouble of finding the Protheans?  Why was it made in the first place when Reapers can't even fit in there? 

[sistersafetypin]

Doctor Moustache wrote...

Samtheman63 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

The citadel is a mass relay hub-a mass relay itself. The protheans built a miniature relay on Ilos not on the citadel. The relay on Ilos connected to the Citadel and it was a prototype they were using to figure out relay tech. The receiving relay is the piece of "relay art" that is on the Citadel.  The reapers built the one on the citadel, not the protheans. 

someone talking sense at last

here is your answer

When the hell does anyone ever say that?

ME1

[Doctoglethorpe]

sistersafetypin wrote...

Doctor Moustache wrote...

Samtheman63 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

The citadel is a mass relay hub-a mass relay itself. The protheans built a miniature relay on Ilos not on the citadel. The relay on Ilos connected to the Citadel and it was a prototype they were using to figure out relay tech. The receiving relay is the piece of "relay art" that is on the Citadel.  The reapers built the one on the citadel, not the protheans. 

someone talking sense at last

here is your answer

When the hell does anyone ever say that?

ME1

You got a link or somethin brah?

[phagus]

3DandBeyond wrote...

phagus wrote...

tyrvas wrote...

Keepers are meant to maintain citadel and activate signal to deep space,
Keepers where hacked by Protheans.
Hack may include command to Keepers to leave Mass Relay Art alone. Or is part of Citadel.

As you said in last quote "Garrus observes that keepers never paid much attention to the statue"

So again I ask why wasn't it removed by the Reapers if Prothean? If Reaper where is its sender companion?

Are you suggesting the Prothean hack made the Reapers (and Keepers) ignore it when they first took the Citadel before the hack took place? What??? Or does it have a Tardis Perception filter so the Reapers, Keepers, Collectors, indoctrinated Protheans cannot see it?

You might as well again be asking why the Prothean beacons and disks and all that other stuff was never removed.

The explanation for it needn't have come about in ME1 but if it was important and since it does raise some valid questions is one thing that should have been made clear by the very end of the story. 

If the protheans created it-Vigil may not have known why they left it alone.  The reapers are the only ones that would know that and Shepard talked to one reaper, mostly before finding the conduit and through Saren later on in the middle of a fight.  The Sovereign was dead.  No way to get any info there.

If it was reaper, it suffers from the same problem.  The sending unit is not explained or explored.  And for clarity's sake the only place it could be explained is when reapers had returned and Shepard had a chance to converse with one, or their daddy star kid.  There was no other logical time to discuss it.

For all we know (pure conjecture) it could be the way keepers get to the citadel or some other thing. It could also have been a device they meant to use to indoctrinate, masking itself as "art".  Hmmmm, the speculation that could arise from this.

Since the reapers didn't remove all prothean tech, they may not have even cared about the mini relay.  Considering they left their own relays laying around they may not have cared about what they might have seen as an homage to their works.

Quite true. But leaving advanced tech that isn't Reaper around means that the cycle will be broken eventually. As races can upgrade previous cycles tech and not rely on the predictable path of technology the Reapers plan for. A prime example is the Crucible. Prothean tech like the beacons,spheres, discs, pods, particle rifle etc are already far more advanced than anything developed by the present cycle anyway. So leaving them to be found and reverse engineered makes no sense if a predictable technological path is needed for the cycle to work.

Too much speculation...

Modifié par phagus, 06 août 2012 - 06:25 .

[sistersafetypin]

Doctor Moustache wrote...


Um.. so the Reapers warp inside the Persidium?

Doh. 


Its a pretty easy safe logical assumption that the entire citadel is a relay but the conduit reciever is a mini relay inside it that can only transport smaller things, you know like exactly what it does in the game. 

Its never specificly said who built it, but its easy to assume the Protheans did since all relays are tied in pairs and the sender relay was deffenitly prothean construction, 

You clearly never played Mass Effect one. It IS specifically stated that the Protheans did NOT build the relays. In fact Sovereign mocks you for using the technology of your destruction. The reapers created the Relays and the Citadel was a trap. The relay inside the Citadel is not a conduit or a part of a larger relay. It was the Reapers back door that the keepers used to open when the Reapers sent a specific signal their way.

Modifié par sistersafetypin, 06 août 2012 - 06:22 .

[tyrvas]

@ phagus & Doctor Moustache,

When the Protheans built the Art Mass Relay Statue it was built
using stealth technology, the one Normandy uses.

Modifié par tyrvas, 06 août 2012 - 06:25 .

[sistersafetypin]

Doctor Moustache wrote...

sistersafetypin wrote...

Doctor Moustache wrote...

Samtheman63 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

The citadel is a mass relay hub-a mass relay itself. The protheans built a miniature relay on Ilos not on the citadel. The relay on Ilos connected to the Citadel and it was a prototype they were using to figure out relay tech. The receiving relay is the piece of "relay art" that is on the Citadel.  The reapers built the one on the citadel, not the protheans. 

someone talking sense at last

here is your answer

When the hell does anyone ever say that?

ME1

You got a link or somethin brah?

You got a game brah? 

[Doctoglethorpe]

sistersafetypin wrote...

Doctor Moustache wrote...

sistersafetypin wrote...

Doctor Moustache wrote...

Samtheman63 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

The citadel is a mass relay hub-a mass relay itself. The protheans built a miniature relay on Ilos not on the citadel. The relay on Ilos connected to the Citadel and it was a prototype they were using to figure out relay tech. The receiving relay is the piece of "relay art" that is on the Citadel.  The reapers built the one on the citadel, not the protheans. 

someone talking sense at last

here is your answer

When the hell does anyone ever say that?

ME1

You got a link or somethin brah?

You got a game brah? 

I mean we can keep this up forever or you can just backup your claim with even a shred of evidense and I would believe you...

I played the game.  Nobody ever said the "art" relay was made by the Reapers.  When you ask Avina it assumes the Protheans built it and the VI on Ilos doesn't mention it. 

[tyrvas]

from Mass Effect Wiki...

Mass Effect Wiki - Relay Monument

The Relay Monument, a scale representation of a mass relay,
is a statue that can be found on the Citadel Presidium. It is
believed to be a piece of Prothean art, and has been in place
since before the asari arrived on the station.
According to Avina, the Relay Monument is a popular topic of
discussion for Citadel academics and scholars. There are two
theories behind its meaning. The Monument may have been a
gesture of Prothean vanity, proclaiming their galaxy-wide mastery
of mass effect field technology. Or, the Monument may be a symbol
of unity, an acknowledgement that the mass relays would eventually
lead other races to the Citadel and unite them.
If spoken to nearby, Commander Shepard's squad all have their own
opinions on the Monument.

In fact, the Monument is not a statue, but an actual small-scale mass
relay that is currently inactive. Its partner relay, known as the Conduit,
is on Ilos. Together they create a 'back door' onto the Citadel, which
hidden Prothean scientists who survived their race's annihilation used
to circumvent the signal the Reapers use to control the Citadel, in scant
hopes that it would lead to the cycle of reaping being broken for the next
races. Saren Arterius intended to use the Conduit to bypass the Citadel's
defenses and hand over control of the station to Sovereign. Shepard used
the Conduit to follow Saren in the Mako, and emerged through the Relay
Monument on the Presidium, crushing several geth in the landing.
As the Conduit was already closing when Shepard drove through, it is likely
the Relay Monument is inactive once again.

ME2
Two years after Saren's invasion, the Monument is still on the Presidium and
is now referred to as the Conduit by the Presidium Groundskeeper.

 


edit: fixed quote.

Modifié par tyrvas, 06 août 2012 - 06:35 .

[phagus]

tyrvas wrote...

@ phagus & Doctor Moustache,

When the Protheans built the Art Mass Relay Statue it was built
using stealth technology, the one Normandy uses.

That explains why Harbinger cannot see the Normandy during the injured squad evac scene..Genius!

[tyrvas]

So the statue is the partner to the one in Ilos, and the statue (reciever) was inactive,
until it's required use by the Protheans.

[tyrvas]

phagus wrote...

tyrvas wrote...

@ phagus & Doctor Moustache,

When the Protheans built the Art Mass Relay Statue it was built
using stealth technology, the one Normandy uses.

That explains why Harbinger cannot see the Normandy during the injured squad evac scene..Genius!

Yes!! Reaper tech has that effect.

[Doctoglethorpe]

tyrvas wrote...

from Mass Effect Wiki...

Mass Effect Wiki - Relay Monument

The Relay Monument, a scale representation of a mass relay,
is a statue that can be found on the Citadel Presidium. It is
believed to be a piece of Prothean art, and has been in place
since before the asari arrived on the station.
According to Avina, the Relay Monument is a popular topic of
discussion for Citadel academics and scholars. There are two
theories behind its meaning. The Monument may have been a
gesture of Prothean vanity, proclaiming their galaxy-wide mastery
of mass effect field technology. Or, the Monument may be a symbol
of unity, an acknowledgement that the mass relays would eventually
lead other races to the Citadel and unite them.
If spoken to nearby, Commander Shepard's squad all have their own
opinions on the Monument.

In fact, the Monument is not a statue, but an actual small-scale mass
relay that is currently inactive. Its partner relay, known as the Conduit,
is on Ilos. Together they create a 'back door' onto the Citadel, which
hidden Prothean scientists who survived their race's annihilation used
to circumvent the signal the Reapers use to control the Citadel, in scant
hopes that it would lead to the cycle of reaping being broken for the next
races. Saren Arterius intended to use the Conduit to bypass the Citadel's
defenses and hand over control of the station to Sovereign. Shepard used
the Conduit to follow Saren in the Mako, and emerged through the Relay
Monument on the Presidium, crushing several geth in the landing.
As the Conduit was already closing when Shepard drove through, it is likely
the Relay Monument is inactive once again.

ME2
Two years after Saren's invasion, the Monument is still on the Presidium and
is now referred to as the Conduit by the Presidium Groundskeeper.

 


edit: fixed quote.

So... maybe you can single out the part that specifies that it was made by Reapers, cause I still don't see it.  All I see are assumptions and insinuations that the Protheans made it

[phagus]

tyrvas wrote...

So the statue is the partner to the one in Ilos, and the statue (reciever) was inactive,
until it's required use by the Protheans.

Spot on..here have a cupcake.